Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?

  • Naomi
  • Naomi's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
4 years 8 months ago #3865 by Naomi
Naomi replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?
Personally, I don't think that the Tao of the Whateley-verse is more than remotely connected to actual Taoism. Theory: An extradimensional entity somehow arrived in this dimension (perhaps it was summoned by actual taoists, or something) and pretended to be the Tao of the philosophy in order to advance its own agenda that at least looked superficially similar. It kept the differences subtle until those who could actually tell the difference were dead (and those who noticed beforehand received "accidents" or were "threats to the Balance") and wiped away historical records so that it would be harder to figure out what actually happened. End result? People are convinced that this alien entity is a fundamental force of the universe and that there is absolutely no point in opposing it.

And, yeah, "karma" isn't a particularly good word for it, though the two concepts could be merged together if you really wanted to. (Magic allows for karmic weight to be "called due" in this life instead of the next, for example)

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #3874 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?

Naomi wrote: Personally, I don't think that the Tao of the Whateley-verse is more than remotely connected to actual Taoism. Theory: An extradimensional entity somehow arrived in this dimension (perhaps it was summoned by actual taoists, or something) and pretended to be the Tao of the philosophy in order to advance its own agenda that at least looked superficially similar. It kept the differences subtle until those who could actually tell the difference were dead (and those who noticed beforehand received "accidents" or were "threats to the Balance") and wiped away historical records so that it would be harder to figure out what actually happened. End result? People are convinced that this alien entity is a fundamental force of the universe and that there is absolutely no point in opposing it.

And, yeah, "karma" isn't a particularly good word for it, though the two concepts could be merged together if you really wanted to. (Magic allows for karmic weight to be "called due" in this life instead of the next, for example)


OMG! Do you mind if I use that?

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Naomi
  • Naomi's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
4 years 8 months ago #3904 by Naomi
Naomi replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?

Malady wrote:

Naomi wrote: Personally, I don't think that the Tao of the Whateley-verse is more than remotely connected to actual Taoism. Theory: An extradimensional entity somehow arrived in this dimension (perhaps it was summoned by actual taoists, or something) and pretended to be the Tao of the philosophy in order to advance its own agenda that at least looked superficially similar. It kept the differences subtle until those who could actually tell the difference were dead (and those who noticed beforehand received "accidents" or were "threats to the Balance") and wiped away historical records so that it would be harder to figure out what actually happened. End result? People are convinced that this alien entity is a fundamental force of the universe and that there is absolutely no point in opposing it.

And, yeah, "karma" isn't a particularly good word for it, though the two concepts could be merged together if you really wanted to. (Magic allows for karmic weight to be "called due" in this life instead of the next, for example)


OMG! Do you mind if I use that?


*Smiles* Please feel free.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #3909 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?
To add to what Sir Lee has said, karma is actually something positive that you want to accumulate. The things you do right, that your resolve properly in this lifetime, and the things you do to aid others, all earn you karma which will be looked at in deciding your place in the next life. Depending on your karma you could come back as a lower caste, an animal, even a devil... if you have done poorly or actively harmed people or damaged your society... or you could earn your way into a higher caste or even join the gods. Or ascend from all the nonsense and go to Nirvana.

Buddhism works on the principle that all those things that you focus on achieving to earn karma and move up are also things that tie you into the idea of the ongoing cyclical process. That wanting to do better is itself a way of creating suffering that causes you to fail to achieve Nirvana. And besides... why should every individual have to find Nirvana on their own? Wouldn't it make more sense for a few who 'get it' to linger behind and help others figure it out?


But what people generally see as karma is more about honor and blood debt, western concepts related to servitude and personal power dynamics. If you save someone's life, they own you. If you betray someone, the scales aren't balanced between you. And if you die while there is still an imbalance; you will have to carry that imbalance into your next life... the result of which is linked groups of souls incarnating over and over with each other in a continual process of trying to work out the imbalance between them.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Malady

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #3910 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?
But as I said in the other thread... 'karmic' based magick is actually just normal magick driven by someone's intent. That intent might be to replicate their personal understand of karma or blood/honor debt... but the actual spell is going to function based on what they INTEND... not on what the actual philosophy or metaphysical nature of the world happens to work under. Trying to 'force' a karmic balance is going to be harmful, no matter what you do... because few people take into consideration that such things work on a much larger picture than we do. For instance, a villain lets lose a death ray and comes out of the experience realizing that he went too far. He shifts to using non-lethal methods. this cascades into the next time those supers fight that two of them come out of the fight alive who would be dead had the villain still been using death rays. On another occasion, he takes down another group of villains just before they kill 50k people in a sports arena, something he could never have done without that change of heart. Or... the opposite... you stop the death ray killing. As a result, the villain fails to recover the items he needed to satisfy his goal. He builds a more powerful weapon so it won't be stopped next time and goes on a rampage. Most of the supers group dies bringing him down. The following day, the robbery at the arena escalates into everyone there dying along with a lot of law enforcement and supers who try to stop them undermanned.

Karmic magic? would the spell respond to the death ray killing? Yes. A Vengeance spell would use that as a chance to kill its target. End of story. "real" karmic magick wouldn't have much of an effect in the immediate sense.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Malady

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago - 4 years 8 months ago #3999 by Mister D
Mister D replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?
One method i've been experimenting with, is the use of Karmic spells, where the spell that is being cast is the one where the caster wants to get a three-fold-return being sent back to themselves.

Never cast anything on someone that you wouldn't use on yourself first... :lol:

Sudden thought: Is there the magical equivalent of gadgeteers and devisor's in WU?


Measure Twice
Last Edit: 4 years 8 months ago by Mister D. Reason: grammar

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago - 4 years 8 months ago #4004 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?

Mister D wrote: One method i've been experimenting with, is the use of Karmic spells, where the spell that is being cast is the one where the caster wants to get a three-fold-return being sent back to themselves.

Never cast anything on someone that you wouldn't use on yourself first... :lol:


Interesting...

Mister D wrote: Sudden thought: Is there the magical equivalent of gadgeteers and devisor's in WU?


So, people who instinctively understand Magic, and those who break the Laws of Magic, and/or impose new Laws, for their own magic?
Last Edit: 4 years 8 months ago by Malady.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #4005 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?
It's still just your INTENT driving the spell that defines what it is going to do. Tying any spell affect into the 'real' system of Karma will not yield a 3-fold law result... because the belief system that karma works on is a balanced justice system based on Hindu culture. And because that belief system operates over a multiple-incarnations period of time, your spell cannot possibly achieve what you are trying to accomplish.

Could you develop something that works on an honor/blood debt system that reacts immediately? Yes. But such a thing would actually be contradictory to karma... because there is NO balance ever developed in a system that results in a greater vengeance or reward than the original action.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Malady

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #4008 by Mister D
Mister D replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?
D'Oh! It's sounds daft when you say it like that... :lol:

It's that argument whether Schimmelhorn engineers are using magic or science.

"I reject your reality and impose my own!"

Which is identical to the lazy/brute-force approach that mages with too much essence to waste use.

This was also covered in the Ayla Christmas Break story, and some of the Nacht Christmas story.

Have any of the Canon authors read any of Charles Stross's The Laundry novels? He's got another extremely chewy approach towards how reality works...


Measure Twice

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago - 4 years 8 months ago #4012 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?

Mister D wrote: D'Oh! It's sounds daft when you say it like that... :lol:

It's that argument whether Schimmelhorn engineers are using magic or science.

"I reject your reality and impose my own!"

Which is identical to the lazy/brute-force approach that mages with too much essence to waste use.

This was also covered in the Ayla Christmas Break story, and some of the Nacht Christmas story.


Well, having to make sure that the system you impose is self-consistent, and having to govern what happens at the boundary between your space and 'common' space may limit the power?

Like the Theories of Genius: The Transgression.
Last Edit: 4 years 8 months ago by Malady.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: WhateleyAdminKristin DarkenE. E. NalleyelrodwNagrijMageOhkiAstrodragonNeoMagusWarrenMorpheusWasamonsleethrOtherEricBek D CorbinMaLAguASouffle GirlPhoenix SpiritusStarwolfDanZillaKatie_LynMaggie FinsonDrBenderJGBladedancerRenae_Whateley
Time to create page: 0.144 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum