Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?

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4 years 8 months ago #4055 by Mister D
Mister D replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?

Malady wrote:
Well, having to make sure that the system you impose is self-consistent, and having to govern what happens at the boundary between your space and 'common' space may limit the power?

Like the Theories of Genius: The Transgression.


Or like the Paradox system for Mage:The Ascension...


Measure Twice
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4 years 8 months ago #4093 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?
I loved Mage. I could never get any of my usual GMs to let me run one in the WoD campaigns though. Of course, that was back in the old days. I haven't followed the game much since its first edition. Haven't done any pen and paper gaming since grad school. And only a little then. So... fifteen years roughly. I imagine most game systems are a lot more evolved compared to those days. Though, from the new d&d version I picked up, things aren't 'that' different. Though... the race selections threw me a bit.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.

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4 years 8 months ago #4121 by XaltatunOfAcheron
XaltatunOfAcheron replied the topic: Let's speculate on 'karma'-based magic?
I want to take this discussion of karma in a slightly different direction, since my base for understanding the term is quite different. For the record, and to sidestep any futile discussion, Kristen's discussion of Karma in Hinduism and Sir Lee's discussion of Taoism are pretty well how I see those religions. There's no disagreement there.

My viewpoint comes from channeling by a Causal plane (5th dimensional in some frameworks) entity that calls itself Michael - i.e. the Michael Teaching. In that teaching, establishing karma requires three factors: an imbalance, an abrogation of someone's right to free choice, and intensity. A karmic ribbon, once created, must be resolved before either Essence (High Self, Oversoul, etc.) can quit reincarnating. From that viewpoint, many of the Hindu concepts are simply wrong: human Essences do not, for example, ever reincarnate as other than human (or at least other sentient beings). Karma is not "accumulated" - each instance is separate and distinct. Like must be resolved with like, but not necessarily the way one thinks; for example, killing karma can be repaid by "giving a life" rather than "taking a life." Karma does not have to be repaid in the next life: resolving a specific karmic ribbon can be postponed indefinitely, but not forever.

My views on magic are a good deal older than the current neo-pagan scene - they go back to the Druid Revival (18th century), the 19th century Magical Revival with Eliphas Levi, the Golden Dawn and Dione Fortune.

Humans are inherently magical creatures, in the sense that most people can do some amount of magic without the assistance of other beings or without having to wait for the appropriate astrological or other alignments, etc. It's not that these things don't work - they do work, and quite well. It's simply that they're not necessary.

So the term, "karmic magic," is, to me, an oxymoron. You can, of course, create karma by using magic, and you can clean up some of the mess left by karmic repayments by using magic, but there is not, as far as I know, any magic strictly and only associated with karma.

Now as to the Whateleyverse - magic in the Whateleyverse doesn't seem to work the same way I know it to work. It's a work of fantasy, and you can have any rules you want to in a work of fantasy. That's not, by the way, a blessing. There's a current article by John Michael Greer where he's looking at what he sees as the decline of the neo-pagan scene, and is not looking forward to the task of disentangling actual working magic from all the fantasy magic (Harry Potter, etc.) that has saturated the scene recently.

Since we're on the topic, a couple of other things to mention. The Law of Threefold Return is, as far as I'm concerned, bogus. The Law of Precedence does have some validity - that's why a novice mage should work in a specific school under a master until they get their feet under them. That is the time to experiment and branch out.

Well, 'nuff said.

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