What we now know about Magic... Sorta...

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4 years 8 months ago #9942 by Ametros
Ametros replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...
Indeed. A calculating machine can only work within the defined confines of its programming, while to be truly "thinking", it should have the capability to extend those confines through mere experience and indirect exposure, as opposed to requiring altered programming.

It's all a matter of thinking outside the box, whereas computers are nothing but the box.

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4 years 8 months ago #9947 by mhalpern
mhalpern replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...
Well IBM's Watson is capable of "intuition" but even that is really just determining the most likely of choices from a pool of data. The trick is getting a computer to learn and adjust like a brain does, there has been marginal success with that, but the hardware takes up a huge space to equate to a rat's brain.

Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.

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4 years 8 months ago - 4 years 8 months ago #10158 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...
So, in the Odds and Ends Part 2 , we learned that Orthodox Thaumaturgy assigns Secrecy to Saturn, or vice-versa... Now, is that Saturn the Planet, or Saturn the Titan? Or even not really Saturn, but some reference to one of the lesser known Saturn gods... Hmm...

@Cabalists - Could you tell us what Real Life basis that connection comes from, or did you guys make it up for Whateley?
Last Edit: 4 years 8 months ago by Malady.

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4 years 8 months ago #10160 by E. E. Nalley
E. E. Nalley replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...

Malady wrote: So, in the Odds and Ends Part 2 , we learned that Orthodox Thaumaturgy assigns Secrecy to Saturn, or vice-versa... Now, is that Saturn the Planet, or Saturn the Titan? Or even not really Saturn, but some reference to one of the lesser known Saturn gods... Hmm...

@Cabalists - Could you tell us what Real Life basis that connection comes from, or did you guys make it up for Whateley?


It was Saturn, these short-lived General Motors consumer brand of mostly plastic cars. It's always been a complete mystery why GM thought that would work.

:evil:

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

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4 years 8 months ago #10162 by Valentine
Valentine replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...

E. E. Nalley wrote:

Malady wrote: So, in the Odds and Ends Part 2 , we learned that Orthodox Thaumaturgy assigns Secrecy to Saturn, or vice-versa... Now, is that Saturn the Planet, or Saturn the Titan? Or even not really Saturn, but some reference to one of the lesser known Saturn gods... Hmm...

@Cabalists - Could you tell us what Real Life basis that connection comes from, or did you guys make it up for Whateley?


It was Saturn, these short-lived General Motors consumer brand of mostly plastic cars. It's always been a complete mystery why GM thought that would work.

:evil:


It's a secret why GM made those. :twisted:

Don't Drick and Drive.

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4 years 8 months ago #10171 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...
Saturn worked for a brief while for the same reason Gateway computers existed for a brief while.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.

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4 years 8 months ago #10330 by Nagrij
Nagrij replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...
lol. My sister owned a Saturn. And it ran! Sort of. But not really.

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4 years 8 months ago #10487 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...
So, Gender/Sex of mages can be determined by their spells, apparently. What is about a spell's appearance that makes that detectable?

Five Elements Dancing - Book of the Wood

Well, this spell looks like something from before the Sundering. Unfortunately, I am not familiar with this type of magic. I can tell that two mages worked this spell, one male and one female.” commented Rythax, sitting back and looking down at the spell.

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4 years 8 months ago #10488 by Arcanist Lupus
Arcanist Lupus replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...
I see three likely answers. The first is that the Essence that holds the spell together retains some of the "flavor" or personality of the mage who cast it, and so an experienced viewer can "sample" the spell and learn a little bit about the mages involved.

The second idea is similar. Because a mage is part of the spell that they cast, then there are a number of "variables" that complicated spells use to counterbalance the individuality of the casters so that the effect is similar when cast by different people, and an experienced viewer can see those variables and deduce information about the caster from them.

Thirdly, I'd imagine that there are some spells that require them to be cast in a certain way by people matching certain traits, and an experienced viewer can recognize the structure.


To use a looser metaphor:
In the first option, Rythax "tastes" the spell and identifies the Essence as having two flavors, one male and one female.
In the second option, Rythax looks at the spell, and sees two spots for mages, one with a note saying "I'm male" and one saying "I'm female"
In the third option, Rythax looks at the spell and sees that it could only be cast by two mages, one who has to be male, and one who has to be female.

The first option seems most likely to me, because Rythax says that he's unfamiliar with the style of spell, and that is the option that requires the least familiarity with the spell structure. The other two presume that the factors described are fundamental to spellcasting at a higher level than where Mythos, human, and Sidhe (etc) magic diverge.

"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
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4 years 8 months ago #10492 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: What we now know about Magic... Sorta...

Arcanist Lupus wrote: I see three likely answers. The first is that the Essence that holds the spell together retains some of the "flavor" or personality of the mage who cast it, and so an experienced viewer can "sample" the spell and learn a little bit about the mages involved.

The second idea is similar. Because a mage is part of the spell that they cast, then there are a number of "variables" that complicated spells use to counterbalance the individuality of the casters so that the effect is similar when cast by different people, and an experienced viewer can see those variables and deduce information about the caster from them.

Thirdly, I'd imagine that there are some spells that require them to be cast in a certain way by people matching certain traits, and an experienced viewer can recognize the structure.

This is typically referred to as a 'signature.' Yes, the Essence in a mage's Well is 'tamed' so to speak. Raw Essence tends to be more wild... and it also tends to reflect its origin. For example, Essence raised through necromantic means remains affected by that nature unless held in the Well long enough to be filtered/tamed and thus de-natured. This has both good and bad aspects... after all, using Essence with a necromantic nature for necromantic purposes tends to be far more efficient (the spells are designed for it, even) and part of the work of doing necromancy is being able to convert raw or tamed Essence into necromantic Essence for use in necromancy. On the other hand, if all you have is necromantic natured Essence and you want to invoke primal Fire... its not going to work very well. And unless you have a good contact with someone who needs lots of necromantic Essence and is willing to trade you some surplus Primal Fire on a moment's notice... you're going to lose energy on the process of forcing the denaturing process the hard way (instead of letting it happen over time in the Well).

Of course, what is 'human tame' Essence is simply Essence tuned specifically to your personal nature, your identity in the greater weave of magick and the universe. So... yes, it can be traced.

And of course, knowing what grimoires and adepts know what spells is also a factor. Some magick is completely restricted through lines of master-student down the ages... so finding a certain spell in use is almost a guaranteed identifier. And of course, each caster has their own style and perspective on the world.

Consider the mage like the scribe of old. Whether they made their own ink from gathered materials or bought it, their works could be identified by the ink, by the parchment, or by their lettering and words on the paper... and only the best forgeries could copy ALL the aspects of the scribe's signature and work.

Magick is much the same.

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