Magick Knacks

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4 months 1 week ago #68269 by Astrodragon
Astrodragon replied the topic: Magick Knacks
The thing is, there is a big difference between the way a Wiz mutant gathers essence and the way a normal mage does. The thing that gives the Wiz their advantage is they have a mutation which allows them to gather essence from an external source naturally.

Now a normal mage has to acquire essence from all sorts of sources, many of which are inefficient, because they don't get the freebie, if they want a substantial amount of essence. They don't have any choice.
While a Wiz could do this, why would they bother to do so? While I can see a Wiz learning to gather essence for a very specific reason, it would have to be worth all that investment.

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4 months 1 week ago #68270 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Magick Knacks
Thanks for answering!

That part I do understand, I mean, why go through the trouble? But my question is mostly geared towards versatility. Take Morgana as an example; she is a wizard attuned to the fire plane, but she has used water/light runes in Magic lab, my question is... How would these mages attuned to a certain element/plane etc... Perform spells that fall outside of that essence type?

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4 months 1 week ago #68275 by Astrodragon
Astrodragon replied the topic: Magick Knacks

Softdreams wrote: Thanks for answering!

That part I do understand, I mean, why go through the trouble? But my question is mostly geared towards versatility. Take Morgana as an example; she is a wizard attuned to the fire plane, but she has used water/light runes in Magic lab, my question is... How would these mages attuned to a certain element/plane etc... Perform spells that fall outside of that essence type?


In exactly the same way Morgana does, after all she has a strong attunement to the fire plane.

I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
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4 months 5 days ago #68295 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Magick Knacks
There are a few parts to answering that.

One is that yes, it is more efficient to use Fire attuned Essence in Fire spells. It is NOT however, easier for a mage to naturally hold Fire Essence. A Mage's Well is a natural filter that 'tames' raw Essence and various sorts of tainted Essences over time. Yes, a Mage with a specific affinity or mutations might hold Essence that is more Fire than another... or more Life... but generally in 'subtle' levels, not to the degree of say what you would find from an Elemental world. Exceptions exist... Morganna is drawing Essence from an Elemental Fire plane... but note what it does to her ability to cast and handle magick on a regular basis. She has to deal with those disruptions and add variations into spells that would work fine for others. Her nature allows her to hold that Essence... most Mages could not do so without repercussions.

Two... spells are naturally designed to account for this. An inefficient super simple Firebolt spell is going to be more neutral Essence based magick than it is 'fire'. It's basically pyrokinesis applied to a small ball of ectoplasm or conjured flammable materials. You don't need elemental Fire for that. On the other hand, the Elemental Fire version is going to do a hella lot more damage. This would be a Firebolt with all the weight of the nature of Fire behind it. To achieve that, you are probably going to need Fire Essence instead of the normal mage stuff. But that doesn't mean you're carry around a storage ring with Fire Essence in it (though you CAN) or risking the repercussions of holding it naturally in that state (though that too is possible, if unwise).

Instead, smart mages down through the ages have built 'conversion engines' in hidden places that they can feed natural essence in to in exchange for certain other types. They have also made contact with immortal and ancient beings of power who live in places like the plane of Fire who are happy to make quick exchanges of Fire Essence (abundant and cheap to acquire in the realms of Fire) for neutral refined Essence from the physical realms (hard to get). These quick conversions are worked into the process of the casting of spells and the Mage simply feeds in neutral Essence and the appropriate special Essence is exchanged in the process.

This is why the most powerful mages are those with decades (and centuries) of study. Even though a young mutant Wizard can throw massive amounts of Essence into a spell, they are still 'unknowns' to these ancient beings. And like walking into a new Comic book shop the first time, the guys behind the counter aren't going to mention that someone just brought in a box of a full run of a title you collect and is looking for a quick sell and the shop has hit its 'buy limit' for the month. They'll hold that deal for the guy that's been a daily visitor for years who will be in later in the evening. You have to study the lore. Work out enough of the details of old spells to find the parts that reference conversions to allow you to mix and match. You'll have to learn which ones have limits and special conditions so you don't try to convert in the midst of a complex spell and suddenly get the wrong thing. And so forth.

But remember... most human (and even mutant) mages are typically working with neutral / tamed Essence. So human spellcraft tends to operate using that Essence. Just as Sidhe magick was designed to work with the more 'raw' Essence of the World Trees and Ley Lines... and Elementals tend to default to magicks that use their own sort of Essence. A human can't cast Sidhe magick without filters or conversions.

One of the best examples we have of dealing with spells and Essence of sorts that aren't natural to us... is mythos. Extreme case... but same logic. Fire magic and Essence at its most 'pure' can be as bad for a human as mythos... but Fire IS still a natural part of life in the physical realms. So as long as we don't delve too deep, it isn't outside our grasp. But nothing about mythos is 'natural' to life in the physical world (or any of the realms we operate in).

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
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4 months 3 days ago #68309 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Magick Knacks
Thank you so much for this!

So basically human mages/Wizards mostly work with "tamed"/neutral essence which is what enables them to perform such a wide array of spells. And, specializations/ attunement for human mages are "subtle" unlike their non-human/elemental counterparts.

I put this into Pokémon terms to help myself understand it better, feel free to correct me in case I've yet to get it right (This is assuming you know enough about Pokémon to understand it from this perspective). Normal type Pokémon (human mages) are known for versativity when it comes to learning moves (spells) from other Pokémon types (essence types), even though they're able to learn these moves when performed by them [Normal type Pokémon] these moves are not as efficient/strong as when they're effectuated by those belonging to said type (Elementals, etc...).

Also, I can see most student mages not being aware of these spells not being performed up to their true potential since the spells have already been designed to account for this, so they might think "this is as strong as it gets!". If a student used enough "tamed"/neutral essence into a "stronger" spell could they recreate stronger effects, such as creating a fireball that can actually do some real damage? (Although, I'm aware it will never be as effective as one conjured/made with Fire essence).

Thanks in advance!

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4 months 3 days ago #68310 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Magick Knacks
Thank you, I just saw this!

So put into simpler terms; the essence type doesn't affect whether or not you cast a spell of a different element/essence type, but the spell would be more efficient/stronger if it were to be cast using that said essence type! Interesting. Magick in the Whateley-verse is a pretty confusing/interesting topic.

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4 months 3 days ago #68311 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Magick Knacks
There was (maybe still is, I'm trying to find it) a thread on here that talked about baseline mages, and Kristin replied to it and explained how baseline mages learn spells/rituals to augment their essence draw. If anyone can find it please send it my way!
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4 months 2 days ago #68313 by Mister D
Mister D replied the topic: Magick Knacks

Softdreams wrote: There was (maybe still is, I'm trying to find it) a thread on here that talked about baseline mages, and Kristin replied to it and explained how baseline mages learn spells/rituals to augment their essence draw. If anyone can find it please send it my way!


There are some nice examples in some of the Wuxia stories about Qi Cultivators using "Spiritual Arrays" to increase the amount of energy in the area that is gathered, in order to increase their energy-gathering-rates when meditating in that local micro-climate.

You can extrapolate that as a basic algorithm that operates on a local area, that can be adapted via Information-Theory-modelling to ANY form of energy.

Yes, i know. It's an engineering approach towards Magic... :D


Measure Twice

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4 months 2 days ago #68314 by Mister D
Mister D replied the topic: Magick Knacks
This also extrapolates nicely into the different forms of Essence having a different levels of efficacy within the spells that are focused on those specific energies.

The Essence stored in the individual's personal wells being the basic Neutral-flavour manna.

Looking at MTG mechanics would be another way of modelling that would work, ie. Transparent Manna vs. Coloured Manna.

Different flavours of Essence Storage that are specific to the Elemental flavours of Essence would also be a nice combination for Mage-Artisans to work on. :)


Measure Twice

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4 months 2 days ago #68315 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: Magick Knacks

Softdreams wrote: There was (maybe still is, I'm trying to find it) a thread on here that talked about baseline mages, and Kristin replied to it and explained how baseline mages learn spells/rituals to augment their essence draw. If anyone can find it please send it my way!


If you're talking about "Drawing / Calling down the Moon", that was given in stories only or something? DDG / Google aren't helping.

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