Magick Knacks

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4 months 2 days ago #68316 by null0trooper
null0trooper replied the topic: Magick Knacks

Malady wrote:

Softdreams wrote: There was (maybe still is, I'm trying to find it) a thread on here that talked about baseline mages, and Kristin replied to it and explained how baseline mages learn spells/rituals to augment their essence draw. If anyone can find it please send it my way!


If you're talking about "Drawing / Calling down the Moon", that was given in stories only or something? DDG / Google aren't helping.


The use of Calling or Drawing down the Moon was mentioned in " Elle 1 Dawn of the Aurora (Part 1) " and " To Seal Our Happiness, Part 1 ", but not detailed. Any resemblance to the IRL Wiccan ritual is coincidental. (Wiccans understand the differences between fiction and real world practice, but you'd be surprised and appalled at how many other people don't.)

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4 months 1 day ago #68320 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Magick Knacks
Nope, that's not the one. I can barely string together what the post said. It used to come up on google very easily, but it seems to have banished. Thanks for answering!

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4 months 1 day ago #68321 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Magick Knacks
Discussing the many different Essence Flavours have revealed an entirely new world of possibilities. This only gets more and more interesting!

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4 months 1 day ago #68322 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Magick Knacks
A confirmation on whether or not my Pokémon types/Essence flavours analogy would be greatly appreciated!

Are there any explanations/theories on natural spells in non-Sidhe mages?

Do potion making and enchantments both fall into alchemy? Is conjuring another term for summoning in the Whateley-verse?

Thanks in advance

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4 months 11 hours ago #68331 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Magick Knacks
Sorry, I don't know enough about Pokemon to confirm or deny any analogy using it. :P

I'm not sure what you're asking re: natural spells in non-Sidhe mages...

Potion Making and Enchantments are not Alchemy... all three of these are unique methods of working with the nature of a thing and through a process potentially involving magic (but not necessarily).

Potion Making is a process of using materials that have certain characteristics or metaphorical associations in combination with each other to bring out a specific benefit that, when consumed, provides some benefit to the user. Those who make potions also tend to learn recipes for salves, tinctures, teas and so on.

Alchemy often 'seems' the same as a slightly more scientific / engineering oriented Potion Making... but the key difference between them is that where the intent of potion making is to generate something that draws out a key quality from its materials... the goal of alchemy is transformation, changing one substance into another more valuable one.

Enchantment is the process of taking a core item and using other materials and magic to make it better for purposes that core item is used. Adding magic to a sword to keep it permanently sharp, to hit more heavily, to burst into flames when it cuts flesh.

Artificing (which you didn't mention) is often lumped into Enchantment but is slightly different. This is the process of creating items that are inherently magic. The results may often seem indistinquishable from Enchantment.. like.. the creation of a sword that flames when it cuts flesh. The difference though, is that an enchantment is applied to a sword... and thus, in theory at least, can also be stripped from the sword (or at least suppressed). A sword built to flame when it cuts... where that is its inherent nature... is far more difficult to stop.

Conjuring / Summoning - not the same, nope. At the most basic, conjuring creates something from nothing. Summoning brings something from elsewhere.


IRL - Drawing Down the Moon is a Wiccan ritual / ceremony in which the High Priestess of a circle calls the Goddess into her, allow the Goddess to give guidance and direction to those present for the benefit and growth of those present. When done by those who practice the craft, the circle is often filled with energy by the presence of the Goddess... so larger workings are often held in combination with Drawing Down so they benefit from both the advice and energy brought to the circle.

For WU purposes, the Drawing Down is a moon tied ceremony that requires some small commitment of Essence to perform successfully that with a proper Priestess in place CAN provide a temporary conduit to an ancient source of wisdom... or, as is often the case, a brief moment of time in which the 'eye' of the goddess is on the circle that sought her attention. When this occurs, a surge of Essence is drawn down from the divine / the moon and a Mage with a lit Well can make use of or draw some of this Essence into storage. The amount of Essence isn't huge by any means and it varies depending on how long the Goddess lingers at the circle (obviously longer if its a true coven with a Priestess, etc) and the ceremony can only happen once a month (under the moon associated with the proper aspect of the Goddess for your circle). But this is one of a few ways that Mages can acquire Essence 'easily' ... as long as they have sufficient as a circle to initiate the ceremony.

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4 months 10 hours ago #68332 by null0trooper
null0trooper replied the topic: Magick Knacks

Kristin Darken wrote: Enchantment is the process of taking a core item and using other materials and magic to make it better for purposes that core item is used. Adding magic to a sword to keep it permanently sharp, to hit more heavily, to burst into flames when it cuts flesh.


With the sword and the enchantment originally being separate, shouldn't it be possible to transfer an enchantment from one anchor item to another (and perhaps equally improbable with an artificer-built item)?

Kristin Darken wrote: For WU purposes, the Drawing Down is a moon tied ceremony that requires some small commitment of Essence to perform successfully that with a proper Priestess in place CAN provide a temporary conduit to an ancient source of wisdom...
... this is one of a few ways that Mages can acquire Essence 'easily' ... as long as they have sufficient as a circle to initiate the ceremony.


While at first glance this looks like "something for nothing", we'd never be able to measure the Other's beginning and ending states or even the amount of energy obtained vs. the amount released. However, the House always takes its cut.

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4 months 8 hours ago #68337 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Magick Knacks
In the heirarchy of power, we see Essence used (mostly by mortal mages, though Sidhe used a scaled up version of it from the World Trees and ley flows)...

But we also have two additional power sources in play... there's the spirit energy that we talk about being generated by Avatars and is the 'coin of the realm' in the spirit worlds, necessary for sustaining stable existance and growing in power there. We also show that the cost of 'living' as a spirit or other dimensional being goes up closer to the physical world... which is why spirits don't just hang out without a hallow at will in the physical world. Doing so 'costs' them and once depleted, the absence of this energy can corrupt and destroy them if they don't manage to flee into the spirit realms. Essence can also be used as a means to create artificial hallows and to sustain a spirit, but typically at a high cost to a mage (ie spirit energy is a higher order / more dense energy than spirit energy).

Then, there's the energy that sustains divinity / divine beings. Also another 'step up' in energy density... which is one reason the average avatar doesn't host gods - instead only special subtypes (channelers and paladins) deal with them, each in their own particular way. the spirit energy generated by an Avatar simply doesn't 'do it' for a god. You could say... (this isn't official canon just a 'how I think of it' sort of thing) that being a god is just like being a mage. You have to have your 'well' lit before you can start collecting the divine energy generated by faith/worship and ceremony... but once you do, you can start collecting that energy and using it just as a Mage uses Essence. Except the things gods can put energy into are scaled appropriately. They expend a certain amount being 'immortal' and so on.

Which is where the 'something for nothing' comes into play. When you're drinking a glass of cold tea in the hottest days of summer, you don't really mind that your glass is collecting condensation and dripping water on the table / coaster. You aren't desperate enough to collect that condensation and save it for later when you're thirsty, you've got a glass of tea right there.

In the Calling ceremony, the small Essence expenditure is mostly about creating a locked circle.. akin to a large Well instead of your individual one. The ceremony to the Goddess is what draws divine attention, generating faith/divine energy for whatever aspect of the Goddess gives the circle attention. The Essence that happens to fill the circle is incidental to the Goddess. It doesn't amount to any serious amount of usable energy on the divine level. And you, as a mortal, have no way to make use of the divine energy raised by the ceremony but the Goddess certainly does... and in a true full circle, its worth enough to merit the Goddess making a quick appearance to give advice. So... its not something from nothing... its a trade of something you can create but has no value to you but that I need... for something that I create that you need.

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4 months 4 hours ago #68341 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Magick Knacks
Thanks for answering, Kristin!

I will try to make an attempt at rephrasing my Pokémon analogy using terms that are actually used in the Whateley-Universe; Mutant and baseline mages use neutral essence, due to its neutrality it allows Wizards and baseline mages to cast a wide array of spells, basically they can cast fireballs, wind torrents etc... But these elemental spells are never going to be as strong as those cast using actual Elemental Essence. Can human mages (both baseline and Wizard) put enough neutral essence into a spell so that they can actually cast a fireball/other elemental spell that packs a real punch?

By natural spells; I'm referring to those spells performed by Wizard mages with no prior training, those they can intuitively and effortlessly perform, is there any reason as to why they can cast these spells with no prior training?

Thanks for answering my question about enchantements, and for explaining the difference between enchantments and artifacts!

Since I'm making this post I'll throw these two in:

Can familiars only be magickal constructs given shape? Or can they be actually summoned beings (such as kitsunes, etc...) or animals imbued with essence (giving them intelligence to carry out their masters' bidding) to play the role of familiars? Could you turn a human being into a familiar?

What sort of basic spells would a mage be taught in Magic Theory/Lab?

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4 months 2 hours ago #68342 by null0trooper
null0trooper replied the topic: Magick Knacks

Softdreams wrote: Can human mages (both baseline and Wizard) put enough neutral essence into a spell so that they can actually cast a fireball/other elemental spell that packs a real punch?


That depends on what is considered a "real punch". In There's No Place Like Poe, Part 6 , do Diamondback's and Totem's spells count?

Bear in mind that essence can be transferred, pooled, or even stored for future use.

Softdreams wrote: By natural spells; I'm referring to those spells performed by Wizard mages with no prior training, those they can intuitively and effortlessly perform, is there any reason as to why they can cast these spells with no prior training?


Please name the untrained Wizard and their "natural" spells. There are far too many WIZ-type mutants to try to guess who you're referring to.

To get the usual suspects out of the way:

Fey: For the first several months after her manifestation, she had a conscious shard of an ancient Sidhe royal's soul living in her head 24/7. Some of the bigger, more complex workings were actually handled by Aunghadhail. She's also been taught by Sir Wallace Westmont as well as the permanent faculty.

Pejuta: She's got a facet of Wakan Tanka in her head, showing her what to do and how to do it. She's also been taught by Totem and Elyzia Grimes.

Bladedancer: Her personal tutor, Rebecca Stone, has taught her the use of spell slips.

Absinthe: Like Nikki Reilly, she is reincarnated ancient Sidhe nobility, so she's learned things from her dreams of the past in addition to her ongoing studies with The Woodwife and the Mystic Arts faculty at Whateley.

Eldritch: Erik Mahren's soul has been bound to a very, very ancient construct that has the user manuals and blueprints for just about anything mystical hard-coded into it.

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3 months 4 weeks ago #68344 by Mister D
Mister D replied the topic: Magick Knacks

null0trooper wrote:

Softdreams wrote: Can human mages (both baseline and Wizard) put enough neutral essence into a spell so that they can actually cast a fireball/other elemental spell that packs a real punch?


That depends on what is considered a "real punch". In There's No Place Like Poe, Part 6 , do Diamondback's and Totem's spells count?

Bear in mind that essence can be transferred, pooled, or even stored for future use.

Softdreams wrote: By natural spells; I'm referring to those spells performed by Wizard mages with no prior training, those they can intuitively and effortlessly perform, is there any reason as to why they can cast these spells with no prior training?


Please name the untrained Wizard and their "natural" spells. There are far too many WIZ-type mutants to try to guess who you're referring to.


Absinthe: Like Nikki Reilly, she is reincarnated ancient Sidhe nobility, so she's learned things from her dreams of the past in addition to her ongoing studies with The Woodwife and the Mystic Arts faculty at Whateley.


Also some of her powers come from the intelligent use of hobgoblins, as a way of siphoning off the unwanted energies that she's generating due to her Sidhe nature.


Measure Twice

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