Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?

More
4 years 8 months ago #4610 by Malady
Malady created the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?
Nevermind this... [ Click to expand ]


What do we know about Native American History of the Whateley-verse?

We haven't heard anything about Residential Schools and stuff... All we know about the Whateley-'verse Native Americans is that have Reservations, right?

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago - 4 years 8 months ago #4611 by konzill
konzill replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?
The big thing we get is that History as it is know in the Whateley Universe is a lie because of the Sundering. The Real history of their world has humans existing on Pangea.
Last Edit: 4 years 8 months ago by konzill.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago - 4 years 8 months ago #4612 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?

konzill wrote: The big thing we get is that History as it is know in the Whateley Universe is a lie because of the Sundering. The Real history of their world has humans existing on Pangea.


I thought the "It is real - to you." means that the current history is a history that is valid and consistent, but it's just not the first.

Medicine Girl wrote: "Long ago, the world was whole. Magic was everywhere. It was the time of the Five-Fold Courts, but it was also the beginning of the rise of man." She frowned deeply. "Then came the Bastard, the evil one. He shattered the land, broke the Five-Fold Courts, and burned the sacred trees that had brought magic to the land. He scattered the Peoples as well."

Circe frowned. "The breaking of Pangea happened millions of years before the rise of humans," she said, confused.

Wakan Tanka sighed. "At the Sundering, time itself was shattered. What you 'know' as the history of the world is a haphazard ordering of what Wihakayda calls space-time, shattered and strewn about through time itself." She shook her head sadly. "What is now are merely scattered fragments of what was before."

"Are you saying that ... our history ... isn't real?" Dr. Tenent asked hesitantly.

"It is real - to you. It is not real to me, nor to Aunghadhail, nor to any of the surviving spirits of the Sundering." She looked down in her cup. "I fought alongside Aunghadhail against the Bastard. The Bastard used his foul powers to create the demons of the world, warping rocks and trees and people into whatever evil form he desired. Many of my shamans fought and died alongside the Sidhe, fighting against him, while the demons he created hunted the People." She shook her head sadly. "When the world broke, we were scattered, our tribes strewn about in both space and time. Many ... did not survive."

Last Edit: 4 years 8 months ago by Malady.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #4614 by Domoviye
Domoviye replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?
One thing to remember is that while ghostwalking and other things might be real, so would European rituals countering them, and giving strength to their own soldiers. With that it all comes down to numbers again.
Also while much of that was happening it might have been a time of low essence. it could have been building up, but until Whateley's 'now' it was even more difficult to build up the necessary essence to cast most spells that are done so easily now.
That would explain why Sidhe started coming back in the 1600's I believe, but only reached 1000 individuals in 2006, with an ever increasing number now. The essence to survive in numbers simply wasn't there.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Malady

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #4615 by elrodw
elrodw replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?

Malady wrote:

konzill wrote: The big thing we get is that History as it is know in the Whateley Universe is a lie because of the Sundering. The Real history of their world has humans existing on Pangea.


I thought the "It is real - to you." means that the current history is a history that is valid and consistent, but it's just not the first.

Medicine Girl wrote: Circe frowned. "The breaking of Pangea happened millions of years before the rise of humans," she said, confused.

Wakan Tanka sighed. "At the Sundering, time itself was shattered. What you 'know' as the history of the world is a haphazard ordering of what Wihakayda calls space-time, shattered and strewn about through time itself." She shook her head sadly. "What is now are merely scattered fragments of what was before."

"Are you saying that ... our history ... isn't real?" Dr. Tenent asked hesitantly.


To those who weren't at the Five-Fold Courts or the Sundering, there is no concept of nor evidence of a pre-shattered time and world. What is known to them is ONLY the results of the Sundering - a disordered, distorted timeline - and because of no evidence of anything else, it is believed by all but the Sundering survivors. So to Dr. Tenent, the only reality she knows is the post-sundering mess.

Now, as to aboriginal magic, in the same story (Medicine Girl) it was stated that there were many tribes of humans, with shaman magic and traditions. The shaman-hunter (Kigatilik if you follow Kayda stories) found and killed many, many shamans, wiping out a lot of knowledge of shaman magic, but he didn't destroy it all. It survivied, and with it, many of the tribes, but the traditions that survived with each tribe were sometimes incomplete, so there is significant variation of known magic from tribe-to-tribe. So Australian aboriginal magic is derived from the same traditions as Lakota shaman magic and African tribes, and so on.

If the Europeans seem ignorant of shaman magic, it's because the civilization 'progressed' and modernized, and the need for shaman magic abated until it was mostly forgotten. I say mostly because there are some who cling to the old traditions. So no, the European-derived 7th Cavalry (for example) would have no counter to a Native American ghost-walker. Only the lack of available magic power to use ghost-walking on a wide basis saved the newcomers. Modern magic might have some overlap with shaman magic, but only to the extent that the old shaman traditions survived through the ages.

Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
The following user(s) said Thank You: Malady

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #4618 by Valentine
Valentine replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?

elrodw wrote:

Malady wrote:

konzill wrote: The big thing we get is that History as it is know in the Whateley Universe is a lie because of the Sundering. The Real history of their world has humans existing on Pangea.


I thought the "It is real - to you." means that the current history is a history that is valid and consistent, but it's just not the first.

Medicine Girl wrote: Circe frowned. "The breaking of Pangea happened millions of years before the rise of humans," she said, confused.

Wakan Tanka sighed. "At the Sundering, time itself was shattered. What you 'know' as the history of the world is a haphazard ordering of what Wihakayda calls space-time, shattered and strewn about through time itself." She shook her head sadly. "What is now are merely scattered fragments of what was before."

"Are you saying that ... our history ... isn't real?" Dr. Tenent asked hesitantly.


To those who weren't at the Five-Fold Courts or the Sundering, there is no concept of nor evidence of a pre-shattered time and world. What is known to them is ONLY the results of the Sundering - a disordered, distorted timeline - and because of no evidence of anything else, it is believed by all but the Sundering survivors. So to Dr. Tenent, the only reality she knows is the post-sundering mess.

Now, as to aboriginal magic, in the same story (Medicine Girl) it was stated that there were many tribes of humans, with shaman magic and traditions. The shaman-hunter (Kigatilik if you follow Kayda stories) found and killed many, many shamans, wiping out a lot of knowledge of shaman magic, but he didn't destroy it all. It survivied, and with it, many of the tribes, but the traditions that survived with each tribe were sometimes incomplete, so there is significant variation of known magic from tribe-to-tribe. So Australian aboriginal magic is derived from the same traditions as Lakota shaman magic and African tribes, and so on.

If the Europeans seem ignorant of shaman magic, it's because the civilization 'progressed' and modernized, and the need for shaman magic abated until it was mostly forgotten. I say mostly because there are some who cling to the old traditions. So no, the European-derived 7th Cavalry (for example) would have no counter to a Native American ghost-walker. Only the lack of available magic power to use ghost-walking on a wide basis saved the newcomers. Modern magic might have some overlap with shaman magic, but only to the extent that the old shaman traditions survived through the ages.


But the Europeans would have had Christian and Jewish magical/religious rituals that would to some extent counter Native American/Australian/African etc. magic.

Don't Drick and Drive.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #4622 by Domoviye
Domoviye replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?
That was my thinking.
Not as direct as shaman magic, but prayers for protection by a priest pushing odds in their favour. Helping to limit the damage a ghost walker or similar to could do. Ancent prayers against witchcraft countering more direct battlefiel magic that shamans could toss in their direction. Things like that.
Nothing obvious enough to say 'Hey we're using magic' at least for the common man, but for the few magicians in the church or amongst regular solders, t would help even the odds.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #4624 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?
Doesn't really matter which traditions you have a couple specialists studying... the fact is, without the wiz mutant trait; accumulation of significant amounts of Essence has always been a life long process. The only mages with Essence to spare for getting involved in politics or anything outside of more studies and experimentation into magic itself are those who have been investing their Essence wisely for at least half a century... or who inherited a Legacy of Essence and an investment system maintaining it.

The sort of magic that was used even as recently as world war two? Aversion warding to keep mundane eyes from discovering the door to the secret chamber. A wolf spirit scouting ahead of a unit of soldiers. A little healing to keep a wound from becoming infected.

That was all that the individual would have Essence for. It doesn't matter what the Essence level of the world is at... non-mutant mages don't naturally have access to large amounts of it. And by the time they do, they tend to need it for life extension and further research.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Malady

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • E. E. Nalley
  • E. E. Nalley's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Author
  • Author
  • Captain Sea Horse
More
4 years 8 months ago #4626 by E. E. Nalley
E. E. Nalley replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?
These were not duels of competing magical traditions. But while force of numbers does play a part in all of this the real undoing of the aboriginal tribes was the same thing that undid them in our universe; firearms. It takes many, many years to train a shaman as it takes many, many years to train a sorcerer; a man can be turned into a decent shot with a rifle in an afternoon. Even in the early industrial revolution the standard shop could turn out dozens of rifles in a week.

That same man can be turned into a soldier with a few weeks of drill. Mobs of men returned to regiments in a fraction of the time it would take to even light the essence of a new shaman or sorcerer's apprentice. And while the tribes could be quite murderous to each other, sustained, organized warfare was really something of a foreign concept; if you'll forgive me the pun. Or as Ruben famously put it, "you hit a guy, he whacks you, Done!" None of the Plains tribes had the logistics or the support base to resist the determined Western expansion spearheaded by the US cavalry in either world.

There might be a single wizard or even a moderately trained adept for the entire regiment; but the Regiment would have 12 troops of 100 men each. That's a lot of rifles.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
The following user(s) said Thank You: Malady

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
4 years 8 months ago #4627 by Domoviye
Domoviye replied the topic: Aboriginal history in Whateley-'verse Sum Up?
OK, that clears up everything nicely.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: WhateleyAdminKristin DarkenE. E. NalleyelrodwNagrijMageOhkiAstrodragonNeoMagusWarrenMorpheusWasamonsleethrOtherEricBek D CorbinMaLAguASouffle GirlPhoenix SpiritusStarwolfDanZillaKatie_LynMaggie FinsonDrBenderJGBladedancerRenae_Whateley
Time to create page: 0.150 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum