Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69143 by Softdreams
Softdreams created the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?
Package Deal Psychics are considered such when said mutant possesses a talent for using all three ESP, TK, and Telepathic/Empathic. So, there are some characters such as Envy and Hekate whom are all rated as Psychics 3, but they've shown a talent for all three of these capabilities, is there any difference between them and Package Deal Psychics?

Are psychic knacks learnable skills? For example, could a telekinetic develop/train themselves into learning other appliances such as electrokinesis etc? Or could all telepaths given enough time and practice learn techniques that could even remotely resemble Freya's knack, or Medusa's etc?

By learning knacks I do not mean copying them like Sahar does.

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69145 by null0trooper
null0trooper replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?

Softdreams wrote: Package Deal Psychics are considered such when said mutant possesses a talent for using all three ESP, TK, and Telepathic/Empathic. So, there are some characters such as Envy and Hekate whom are all rated as Psychics 3, but they've shown a talent for all three of these capabilities, is there any difference between them and Package Deal Psychics


Being a PDP sounds cool as long as one forgets that "usually the possessor can only exercise one of the three parts at any time."

Folks who can exercise all of their psi powers to the extent of their concentration might be a greater threat in a slugfest. Envy and Hekate also use magic, putting them in a different category of threat.

Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69147 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?
As Null points out, what makes a PDP a 'unique' situation is not that the mutant has several (three) Psi oriented powers, it is that the mutant can only use one of these at a time... not just as a matter of skill/discipline, but as a complete lockout situation. When one of the powers is in use, the other two might as well not even exist.

You see... under normal circumstances, most Psi mutants are pretty flexible in their abilities. There ARE Psi's who are ONLY Telepaths. Or Empaths. Or Telekinetics. But those are unusual circumstances... and often are a measure of SIGNIFICANT power in just one area of psychic talent. Most Psi's are just that... Psi's. They can develop the big three... or any of the sensory abilities, or the dimension/planes tapping ones.. with time and effort. It's simply a matter of learning how to apply the pool of psionic energy that they have to specific use.

It IS unusual for a mutant to be strong in more than one of the big three, however (or to crossover into one of the PK variants); because these uses of psionic power are VERY different. For instance, TP and Emp read and 'project' into very different parts of the mind and the biological construction that houses that part of the mind.

Telepathy deals with the language centers and perceptual processing... reading surface thoughts is a matter of 'catching' the formation of a thought in that part of the mind that forms language/speech and then makes a decision on whether or not to consciously speak it... the better formed the thought and the closer the decision to speaking it aloud, the easier it is to lift. And similarly, dropping a thought into that process in such a way that the mind considers it but doesn't speak it aloud... is how a TP can tweak thought processing. Or to collect or embed sensory data as it is processed and comes into the decision making centers.

Empathy works with emotional centers and instinct throughout the nervous system, reading the points where chemical reactions (emotions) are triggered to learn or drive emotions. And Telekinesis uses the psychic energy of the Psi to manipulate strong and weak forces in the quantum world around the mutant. A PK does much the same, except instead of free forces, it uses the specific forces found within the aura of the Psi (tuned to certain metaphysical types - force, electricity, flame, water, and so forth) to form a fractal linked formation that is the 'shell' of the PK. All very different applications.

But the general 'ESP' or Psi oriented powers tend to be ways to 'look into' the world (and not just the 3 dimensional world) around the Psi in ways that resemble the normal five senses. In fact, these powers after use the base five as means of interpreting the information acquired from these powers. A Clairvoyant doesn't actually 'see' patterns of light on their rods and cones from distant locations... they are reading a psionic impression of that place, interpreted through the visual perception system.

For most psionically empowered individuals, whether baseline or mutant, what you can learn is mostly a matter of what you can 'wrap your head around'. Some things might come naturally, others be very difficult. Someone who is clairvoyant but also precognitive may never figure out a way to decide whether they are seeing now or later, if both techniques rely on perceptual interpretations with their eyes...

But in most cases, the pool of psionic energy that is used for these abilities is openly tapped for any and all of them. Running a sensory skill (Clairvoyance) and an active communication (Proj/Rec Telepathy - Team links) and an force manipulator like TK at the same time is a matter of skill. Doing three things at once may be more 'fatiguing' than just one... but most Psi's can do it (after all, they regularly juggle listening to multiple conversations at the same time in their mind, why would adding a couple more things matter).

A PDP cannot. If they have to block an attack with their TK barrier, they have to let go of the TP communications with the team. And they cannot reconnect comms or see what's going on at the ambush site, until they drop the TK.

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69158 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?
Thanks for answering, Kristin!

I'll proceed to using magic analogies to see if I've got an easier time understanding the Psi trait:

Putting it in other terms; Psi and Wiz type mutants are very similar, the main differences between them are the sources they draw power from, wizards: external, psychs: internal. Most Psychics' abilities aren't dictated/constricted by the Psychic trait, but by what they do with their psionic energy like Wizards do with essence. Or is my assumption too far off base?

Could this have been what sparked the hotly debated in-universe theory that there's no magic only psi? *gasps*

"A PK does much the same, except instead of free forces, it uses the specific forces found within the aura of the Psi (tuned to certain metaphysical types - force, electricity, flame, water, and so forth) to form a fractal linked formation that is the 'shell' of the PK. All very different applications."

I do not know much about PK/PK shells, so I'm struggling to grasp these concepts since they aren't something I have a foundation in. So, PK shells are made up of the energy that's being manipulated by the energy manipulating applications of PK(? As for the forces found within the auras of the Psi; I'm completely lost.

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69160 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?
Yep, that's one of several reasons psi and magic are said to be alike...also, consider that those things are 'historically' said to be alike. That's a reflection of their development in baselines, as opposed to the relatively short time frame where there have been mutant mages and psis. Both baseline psi and mages take years to develop mental and physical discipline to gain access and control over their energy form before then being able to manipulate that energy through specific patterns and techniques to create an effect. And given that both were commonly life time practices there simply wasn't much hope of someone studying and mastering both, so comparisons were easy to make. With mutants having both magic and psi and far more exaggerated levels of both than the average baseline practitioner/master, the differences are more obvious. But there are still many similarities.

For the PK question... you have to first understand that the 'aura' is simply a part of the energy field of each individual. Our 'mind' or consciousness isn't entirely contained within the flesh of our body... it extends beyond it. To some degree, quite a ways (more than a couple feet, sometimes). When you describe someone has having a presence, that the room seems more full with them in it than can be accounted for by their physical stature; you are acknowledging their divine/whole nature (or as the Hindu call it their atman, or more specifically... their outer koshas). There are five koshas nestled each within the others like layers of an onion or Russian dolls (from outside in): ananda (bliss - ether), vijnana (wisdom - air), mana (mental - steam), prana (energy - water) and ana (physical - ice). Under normal circumstances, these energy sheaths are part of our non-physical nature (except for ana, obviously).

For a PK, their psionic energy is engaged and woven into one or more of these layers in a tight pattern over the mutant's skin... the combination of which sheaths are involved might explain the nature of which not all PK sheaths are pure force. Along with why some mutants can use them to fly, be frictionless, or extend parts of their shell out around a weapon or to lift an object. The koshas can be manipulated through intent (a process generally recognized as yoga).

If the esoteric Hindu stuff didn't help, let me know and I'll try again to explain it... :P

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69163 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?
Basically psi is a branch of "magick" (I'm not comparing it to magick, just using it as an analogy) that deals with a different source of energy, patterns and techniques. Looking at it this way, could we look at knacks/techniques as a type of built-in "spells"? Does the Psychic rating refers to how quickly their psionic energy replenishes?

So, if nothing stops Psi's from developing the big three, or any of the sensory abilities; What stops non-gadgeteer espers from gadgeteering/other exotic appliances? Lack of effort?

And regarding the PK shells, yes, that analogy did help me understand it better. Thanks! I'm surprised though, I had no idea auras and the energy manipulation abilities were so intertwined together; I always imagined them as two completely different things. Mind listing a few characters whose PK shells fall into a specific element/nature?

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69164 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?
Have we ever seen other Psi-rated mutants such as Tansy/Don etc... Use their psychic abilities as versatilely as Envy/Hekate? I'd love to read those stories!

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69171 by E. E. Nalley
E. E. Nalley replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?

Softdreams wrote: Have we ever seen other Psi-rated mutants such as Tansy/Don etc... Use their psychic abilities as versatilely as Envy/Hekate? I'd love to read those stories!


You might want to give The Bear, The Bitch and Everything a read then, Tansy is fairly creative in some of her powers. And her fight with Murphy in part four is likely of particular interest.

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69181 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?

Softdreams wrote: Have we ever seen other Psi-rated mutants such as Tansy/Don etc... Use their psychic abilities as versatilely as Envy/Hekate? I'd love to read those stories!

At some point, you will. We have a whole 'team' of students and faculty who are off-handedly referred to as the "Dream Team" who are the movers and shakers when it comes to psionic and 'planar' based defenses. This people mostly spend part of their time asleep doing something other than getting rest and dreaming... instead spending time in "the Dream" projecting themselves into the near Astral plane where they patrol and defend the Whateley Academy from psionic and magical threats of the non-physical sort.

When I get around to writing more about my character Esoteric, you'll get to see these people in action quite a bit. That's the problem with so many people writing avatar based characters... all the focus is on the spirits and combat class or gadgeteers/devisors and the labs, we went a long time without much inside perspective on mages and now we've finally got some of that but still haven't shown much from the Psi Arts department.

could we look at knacks/techniques as a type of built-in "spells"? Does the Psychic rating refers to how quickly their psionic energy replenishes?


Most Psi's would not... mainly because Psi's tend to treat their abilities as more scientific than magic. And they don't view the comparisons with their abilities to magic with any sense of humor or fondness. Most Psi's share Caitlin's view of magic - they're a bunch of illogical, flakey finger wigglers. Mages don't much like the comparison either... but for a different reason - they consider Psi's to be a 'lesser' form of magic. That Essence is a far stronger source of energy, a 'true' energy that isn't greater than any one human... while the energy that a Psi uses is only from their own internal mental forces. And mages know that they can tap their own life force for extra Essence... but they don't do it because it will burn them out quickly.

The thing is... most of what Psi is used for... is subtle sensory and manipulative abilities. Incredibly finessed use of very small refined energy patterns (like those transmitted across ganglions in the brain). Mages, however, are punching holes through dimensions to swap Essence types with elemental forces and rewriting the nature of local reality. Both have great power available to them... but its like comparing a live sound engineer at a rock concert with a sonar tech in a submarine. The two of us would have a whole lot in common... but we're dealing with WAAAAAY different sorts of sound.

What stops non-gadgeteer espers from gadgeteering/other exotic appliances? Lack of effort?


Gadgeteer and devising are a very 'specialized' sort of ESP... it we were stacking heirarchy, you would probably want to put both of them 'under' precog and paragon. For Gadgeteer to work, you have to be able to do a forward based 'look' to a point where technology has progressed and then instinctively grasp a certain amount of that knowledge. Neither one of the two is an 'easy' Psi ability to have or train. And clearly, it borders on areas of the mind that become 'obsessive' and 'manic' (commonly seen in precogs and gadgeteers actively working on projects) and a Devisor has to tie that also into the ability to 'look' outside our dimension for technology that will achieve this thing (something we generally attribute only to Warpers).

There's also the consideration that most Psi's see themselves as people forces. Communication, information gathering, searching... manipulation and deception... all where it comes to working with people. A Psi that moves into working with tech instead of people starts working with tech energy levels, binary code, and multitasking on a rigid 'bit' based concept... instead of the natural auric energies of the human mind and collective consciousness. There isn't a lot of interest in trying to do both ... just as there aren't often people in both the magic dept and the labs. Only the exceptions that make the rule. :P

a few characters whose PK shells fall into a specific element/nature?


That's a pretty rare power. It's far more common for people to have TK powers that are not just psychic force (the default TK and PK energy being psychic force).

But... let's see.. who have we introduced and shown enough to see their power like this...

Statuesque: (student) used a white marble looking PK shell that is 'earth' based.
Maelstrom: (locked in ARC - James Diedrick - THE case study for Diedricks/dricking out): has a 'storm' based PK shell. Among other things. :P

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4 months 2 weeks ago #69188 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Package Deal Psychics and Other Psychics(?
Thanks for answering, E.E. Nalley! I have read The Bear, The Bitch and Everything, it's a personal favorite! Now that you've brought up that story, is that how Tansy was able to perform/master tantic sex? By using her Psi abilities instead of essence to power it?

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