Devises and Essence

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4 months 1 week ago #69450 by Astrodragon
Astrodragon replied the topic: Devises and Essence
No

I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.

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4 months 1 week ago #69458 by Commander_Knight35
Commander_Knight35 replied the topic: Devises and Essence

Astrodragon wrote: No


Well that was blunt.
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4 months 1 week ago #69459 by Astrodragon
Astrodragon replied the topic: Devises and Essence

Commander_Knight35 wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: No


Well that was blunt.


I'm sorry, I should have said more.

Hell no! :evil:

I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.

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4 months 1 week ago - 4 months 1 week ago #69461 by Sir Lee
Sir Lee replied the topic: Devises and Essence

Softdreams wrote: Does the Devisor rating system determines how well a devise works when not handled by the devisor/how likely it is to break down, or how complex of a devise said mutant can build?

Well, it's more like how much they can warp the laws of nature...

Rather like the sentiment in the last panel of the following "Girl Genius" page:


Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
Last Edit: 4 months 1 week ago by Sir Lee.
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4 months 1 week ago #69462 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Devises and Essence
Since most (or all?) devises are pretty much dependant on bending/warping or entirely breaking the laws of nature (our world, at least) then the complexity (complex as in otherworldly) of the devise would equal to how deeply it affects said laws(? Although... We have seen plenty of low-leveled devisers build some pretty far-out things.

Also, mutants who are a combination of GAD and DEV are regarded to as being a rarity, but gen 1 seems full of them. I wonder if that's became it's hard to tell the two apart without any very thorough examinations, thus the line has become a little blurred. (Well, taking into account that most of this information has come from students so they might just be throwing these classifications around to refer to Tech-type mutants).

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4 months 1 week ago #69464 by Valentine
Valentine replied the topic: Devises and Essence

Softdreams wrote: Does the Devisor rating system determines how well a devise works when not handled by the devisor/how likely it is to break down, or how complex of a devise said mutant can build?


Picking three Devisors.

Mobius' stuff is so stable Phase can use and mess with it dimensionally and it keeps on ticking.

Boomjob's stuff slowly destabilizes over time, although she can maintain and repair it.

Lady Havoc's stuff is flawed from the start and tends to break down a lot.

Don't Drick and Drive.

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3 months 2 weeks ago #69562 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Devises and Essence

Sir Lee wrote:

Kristin Darken wrote: Because in the WU, science and tech are not mutually exclusive

You know, despite what some flat-earthers and some enemies of pure research may say, science and tech are hardly mutually exclusive in our universe either.:lol:


Doh. That was supposed to be science and magick. B)

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.

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3 months 2 weeks ago #69563 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Devises and Essence
To elaborate on the Devisor rating system... just remember that the whole mutant ranking system is a measure of mutation, not a measure of the effects of those mutations. It's something used by mutant specialized theorists and biologists... and seen in use by these people in use for purposes of powers testing. It is decidedly not an outcome/effect based system of measurement such as you see in RPG's (especially in RPGs, where powers can be assigned points costs and modified through the use of limitations or advantages with a result of equal cost powers being more or less equal in effect on the world - and most importantly, on combat). The idea of an 'effects' or 'outcome' based ranking system is in the works and may be revealed in canon at some point in the timeline of Gen 2... as a result of tech and social media platforms allowing the observation and recording of measurable 'feats' of power 'in the wild' that would require and produce a common system of measure by non-specialists (the ParaWatch / HeroWatch color rating system, for example). And our discussions of other characters and stories outside of Gen 2 where that system exists will likely also evolve to speaking in those terms... but more than likely, the powers tests and theorists will still use their earlier ranking system because of what that means in terms of biology and the science of what they do.

Specifically, for Devisors... the ranking is primarily a measure of how many vectors they can manipulate.

Or, using the tech tree example:
Technology moves within a reasonable progression. There are theoretical nodes, engineering nodes, and specific schematics/devices off of those and any node you try to reach has prerequisites and serves as the prerequisite for further developments. Normal science follows the course of the tree... logical progression and basic hard work generally keeps the process moving forward along various branches as long as effort is put into them. Innovation and genius can sometimes bypass specific nodes, maybe even more than one, especially where one branch moves ahead of another and connects back in through a different path... as things missed can be caught up quickly through reverse engineering and seeing how further developments prove the effectiveness of skipped nodes.

But for the Gadgeteer... you no longer have to follow the path linearly. A Gadgeteer can skip ahead to a specific target goal, possibly singling out a single node or landing with a splash effect and getting several things along the progression to it (or linked closely to it in that area of the tree). How powerful a Gadgeteer is tends to determine either how far into the 'fog of war' of the tech tree they can jump, how much of the tree is revealed when they splash down, and how long they can hold onto that knowledge.

Devisors aren't really much different in practice. But those differences result in an enormous effect... because Devisors aren't limited to just the one tech tree. In an infinite set of parallel universes, the laws of mathematics, physics, biology... and so on... can function in some outrageously different ways, which result in some very, very different tech trees. given all those possible options to land on... but fortunately, Devisors can only reach out as far as their power will support, just like the Gadgeteer.

The further from what they 'know' that they reach, the harder it is to hold onto it... which for the Gadgeteer results in less splash or interconnecting knowledge and a shorter time of holding that knowledge. For the Devisor, the further it is, the harder it is to keep the devise connected to THAT world's laws.

Or something along those lines...

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3 months 2 weeks ago #69567 by Softdreams
Softdreams replied the topic: Devises and Essence
Is this why most Gadgeteers are specialized while most Devisors are themed? Because gadgeteers are confined to only seeing visions within a tech tree, and devisors see tech trees accross multiple planes? So... We could say devisors can work across the multiple fields of chemistry, biology etc... While gadgeteers MUST (or at least work harder to study/master other branches) stay specialized to keep things straight.

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2 months 1 week ago #69770 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Devises and Essence
There's a bit of shuffling of the chicken->egg sequence there. We wrote them that way... with themes and specializations... from the start. That was just the concept. But in later "filling in the details" this is how I rationalized that concept.

Back when the WU was just a hand full of authors doing a round robin set of stories with a shared universe; a lot of those things just 'were'. Either because they were tropes of the genre already... or because it served the purpose of a specific story. Hundreds (if not more than a thousand) characters between canon and non-canon Whateley stories later, we've filled in a lot more detail (still no where near all of it, but far more than we had in the early days). But we're still not to the point that you'd get consistent answers from an RPG source book or game mechanics. This is MY way of rationalizing the existing concepts with a sort of unified idea that works for 'many' if not all the existing stuff. And if it helps people create more stories that remain consistent with continuity, then its served its purpose. But its not an RPG rule book. I'm offering an explanation for why those things might work that way... but in most cases, the actual "why" is... the author wrote it that way. The explanation that integrates the rest of the WU came later. :P

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