Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?

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5 years 2 weeks ago #8201 by NeoMagus
NeoMagus replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?

Malady wrote: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?

Like, for example, I'm planning to get a Spirit-Form Artemis to the Moon, to possess the whole thing as her Desmene or whatever. Are there spirits on it that would try and fight her off?

I'm also planning this for the other Olympians that have planets, like Apollo gets the Sun, Jupiter gets Jupiter, etc.


I'm just going to take a wild guess and say this is probably the wrong thread for a question like this... :dry:

... . . -.- / .--- ..- ... - .. -.-. . .-.-.- / .-.. --- ...- . / -- . .-. -.-. -.-- .-.-.- / .-- .- .-.. -.- / .... ..- -- -... .-.. -.-- / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-. / --. --- -.. .-.-.-

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5 years 2 weeks ago #8235 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?

NeoMagus wrote:

Malady wrote: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?

Like, for example, I'm planning to get a Spirit-Form Artemis to the Moon, to possess the whole thing as her Desmene or whatever. Are there spirits on it that would try and fight her off?

I'm also planning this for the other Olympians that have planets, like Apollo gets the Sun, Jupiter gets Jupiter, etc.


I'm just going to take a wild guess and say this is probably the wrong thread for a question like this... :dry:


Yeah. I didn't notice that I was posting in the wrong sub-forum. Don't worry, I reported it...

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5 years 2 weeks ago #8236 by E M Pisek
E M Pisek replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?
Should we report you for reporting that you were going to be reported by someone who thought you needed reporting? Or should we just be happy that you've taken the proper steps in deciding that if you reported yourself then those that were going to report you found that they needn't have worried about reporting you?

Of course you may want to report that you have been reported just to be on the safe side.

What is - was. What was - is.
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5 years 2 weeks ago - 5 years 2 weeks ago #8279 by Phoenix Spiritus
Phoenix Spiritus replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?
To the original question,

Define "possess"? Are we talking demonic possession all your earthquakes are mine, or some sort of I own it, here is my stay away sign type possession?

I think, the moon being around for something like three or four billion years and mankind getting there fourty years ago, that the real problem would be, well, getting rid of the spirits who are already there and won't be happy at the attempt to take it from them.

But, doubt that the UN or anything is gonna get involved.
Last Edit: 5 years 2 weeks ago by Phoenix Spiritus.

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5 years 2 weeks ago - 5 years 2 weeks ago #8284 by Malady
Malady replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: To the original question,

Define "possess"? Are we talking demonic possession all your earthquakes are mine, or some sort of I own it, here is my stay away sign type possession?


More the former, like, "My Space. Swear Fealty Or Get Earthquakes!"

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: I think, the moon being around for something like three or four billion years and mankind getting there fourty years ago, that the real problem would be, well, getting rid of the spirits who are already there and won't be happy at the attempt to take it from them.


But, do any spirits actually live anywhere else other than Earth? Like... Umm.. Chang-e, the Chinese Moon Goddess, is her place in the Astral and accessible by going to the Moon and Astralling from there? Or is she literally, on the Moon, like the way the Grove or individual Tree Spirits are?

... Hmm... Feels like that One Location Only thing seems too limited for a spirit... I guess a spirit trying to take over the Moon would get counter-attacked by all the Moon Deities, but if they did manage to take it over, the Deities would still be in the Astral, just unable to manifest on the Moon without the Moon Ruler's say-so?
Last Edit: 5 years 2 weeks ago by Malady.

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5 years 1 week ago #8295 by ~Archangel~
~Archangel~ replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?

Malady wrote:
But, do any spirits actually live anywhere else other than Earth? Like... Umm.. Chang-e, the Chinese Moon Goddess, is her place in the Astral and accessible by going to the Moon and Astralling from there? Or is she literally, on the Moon, like the way the Grove or individual Tree Spirits are?

... Hmm... Feels like that One Location Only thing seems too limited for a spirit... I guess a spirit trying to take over the Moon would get counter-attacked by all the Moon Deities, but if they did manage to take it over, the Deities would still be in the Astral, just unable to manifest on the Moon without the Moon Ruler's say-so?


Here is the thing how do spirits get power? If from a human pantheon is power coming from the people looking at the Moon and associating the Moon with [insert lunar deity] thus giving power that way. Or are spirits getting power because they have power from the place, therefore can influence things and get worshipers and then gain more power?

Maybe the Moon's gravity influences ley lines on Earth, thus creating and ebb and flow that is linked to the phases of the Moon, which could explain the Moon's link to magic and Chi/Ki. So a Lunar takeover could be an attack on magic itself. I guess at this level of power the answer is what ever you want, but what humans see is likely not what really happens.

Hmm the Moon landings and Lunar bases could be seen as Science invading the Moon to take it over from the forces of Magick.

Many people hear voices when no-one is there.
Some are called 'mad' and shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day.
Others are called 'writers' and they do pretty much the same thing.
-Ray Bradbury
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5 years 1 week ago #8343 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?
From a Whateley Universe perspective, this is mostly a nonsense question. Spirits in the WU have little to no ability to influence the physical world due to the "power charge" of crossing out of your 'home' realm/plane/dimension. For a 'spirit' to cross over into the physical world takes a massive amount of energy. Once here, the spirit/entity has to expend energy to stay here (and it doesn't necessarily get an automatic return home when it runs out of energy... a spirit that flips over into the physical world with no way home that runs out of energy before getting a way home CAN and usually DOES die). And in most cases, while here in the physical world, the spirit is 'lesser'... it takes more 'oomph' to manipulate the physical world than they are used to and they also don't have innate abilities to just relax and go to sleep to recover their strength.

This is why, with all these spirits running around, you don't see tons of possessions in the WU. At least, not by 'spirits'. It has to be very very important to the spirit to commit to spending their energy to manipulate the physical world. Of course, they can get some mage to pay the crossover charges by performing a summoning ... that's one way to 'work' the system. It's also possible for a spirit to be given a 'benefits package' as part of a summoning - something that supports their presence in this world, maybe even makes it more like they are a native so that what the spirit does doesn't cost it a lot of its own life force. But no free lunch... SOMEONE is still paying the bill. Usually the summoner, directly or indirectly.

It's also why a spirit getting hosted by an avatar is such a good deal for a spirit. The Avatar's Hallow exists in their world. So not only do they get to interact with the physical world indirectly, they get to do so without any of the risk or expenses of crossing over. And it comes with room and board in the spirit realm equivalent of a fortress. Ya, ok... most of them also expend some of their energy to ensure that their host is going to be safe and inclined to the sort of activities that they personally enjoy. But they can afford to at that point, because for the lifetime of that host, they've got it made.


Gods, on the other hand, are very different. It's true that gods in the WU can transcend the physical body. But they are not spirits. They're not external entities in the 'cost of doing business on the physical plane' game. Unless they are a god from outside. Gods that started here get to keep their home court advantage after they transcend... gods that transfer in have all sorts of problems until they adapt (or impose their nature on the world). The source and nature of a gods power is quite different. And while you can draw analogies between the life force of a spirit and its power, the essence of a mage and its manipulation, and the power of a god and how it is used... these three things are not the same 'type' of energy. Can you use one in place of the other in certain situations? Yes. All situations? No. Can you convert one to one of the others? Yes. Always? No. Are there exceptions? Probably.

There aren't any specific 'rules' in the WU regarding the occupation of territory in the sense of a location being like the Hallow of an Avatar. To go that route would put far more importance on the idea of ownership of land. If anything in the WU did work that way, it would probably be a far bigger deal that Gizmatik or Paramount created their own kingdoms. After all, if expanding their territory control raised the power of a god or gave it more authority over that part of the physical world... at some point, physical ownership and domination over land by a mortal would have to trigger an elevation to godhood... that power potential would have to go 'somewhere'. And in such a universe, nations would almost inherently rise as theocracies... because land held 'by the people' or by an abstract concept or a group of people temporarily would either result in the creation of many weak gods or make that land susceptible to a strong leader who people followed charismatically despite the abstract laws behind him resulting in that leader becoming the embodiment of that nation in godhood.

Is there a potential foundation for a story in the idea? Yes. But it would be a vastly different world than earth or the WU, unless the world only just today changed to work that way. In which case, it would be absolute collapse and chaos. As an experiment in how leadership and political systems might evolve differently if the strength of one's leadership resulted in actual godhood and the accumulation of greater natural power? Could be worth reading. There would be little reason for militaries or war as we know it... because the only real way to change any balance of power would be for the leader to take control of a territory that they previously did not have control over. And that would require one leader to defeat the leader who held that territory... transferring power to the victor. You would have to determine how much the support of the people and the land itself gave to its leader in the process of those 'fights'... because if the land and people held strong and remained determined to be led by their leader, that god couldn't be 'defeated' even by a more powerful one with a larger nation and more people. ie the will of the land is that it be led by Joe... then Joe will lead it... even if Ted is so powerful that he runs everything else.

And then, you would have an interesting series of stories about the leap into space. Does the sheer distance traveled break any possibility of a god on Earth also claiming the territory of Mars? or Europa? or the third planet of the Bernard's Star system? Does everyone hop in scout ships and hope to be the first to find new spectral bodies because of the ability to park in orbit and say "I found this. This is mine." and suddenly be a god with dominance over an entire planet because there is no one else to challenge their claim? Or would they be limited? A mere mortal might 'claim' godhood over an entire planet, but they can't actually extend control over anything much than a few hundred square miles at first, because they simply aren't mentally built that way yet. And that to really claim a planet in that way could take hundreds of years of growing into it.... though with enough space out there, it could still be possible to do so unchallenged.

In fact, this might be done intentionally. Specific types of people put in scout ships for the specific intent of seeding planets with a terraforming god, followed up by small teams of scientists and others who don't have the personality types of challenge the seed-god specifically to give the god followers and boost its power such that they can terraform the world for regular colonation.

*looks around* Now where the hell have I wondered to... Malady? WTF?!

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
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5 years 1 week ago - 5 years 1 week ago #8346 by Phoenix Spiritus
Phoenix Spiritus replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?
Aaaannnnd, something tells me Kirstin is again rested and on top of the ball after her pre-Christmas zombie march to the end zone.
Last Edit: 5 years 1 week ago by Phoenix Spiritus.

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5 years 1 week ago - 5 years 1 week ago #8347 by E M Pisek
E M Pisek replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?
Wow that was a mouthful. Um yeah, I understood that perfectly. Um can you repeat that right after 'From a Whateley Perspective....' And could I buy an abridged version Pat? :huh: :dry: :side:

All I did was ask where I could buy some spirits? Jack, Jim, Brandy. I didn't know where the store was and .....

Yeah.... What she said.

What is - was. What was - is.
Last Edit: 5 years 1 week ago by E M Pisek.

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5 years 1 week ago #8350 by Kristin Darken
Kristin Darken replied the topic: Are there issues with spirits possessing planets?

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Aaaannnnd, something tells me Kirstin is again rested and on top of the ball after her pre-Christmas zombie march to the end zone.

What gave it away? The ability to generate a coherent thought or that I actually had time to sit here long enough to type all that? :)

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