Question It matters

Some criticism

• Mrs Carson would NEVER mistreat a student without due cause. Why is she just doing this without any motive or reason?? Also, fucking hell, this fic has a hate-boner for Whateley Academy
• I can figure that they wouldn’t want to accept a student because they’re a random baseline without a magic sword or other qualifier, but I’d think they’d reject his application rather than torture him for weeks on end


• why would Bruce Goodkind a) waste his time on a random nobody, and b) not send a lynch mob to a school for mutants upon discovering it’s existsnce

I think we have a new Abridged Worlds. This is coming from the author of said piece mind you.

CrazyMinh wrote: Some criticism

• Mrs Carson would NEVER mistreat a student without due cause. Why is she just doing this without any motive or reason?? Also, fucking hell, this fic has a hate-boner for Whateley Academy
• I can figure that they wouldn’t want to accept a student because they’re a random baseline without a magic sword or other qualifier, but I’d think they’d reject his application rather than torture him for weeks on end

New Hampshire State Police don't have "Inspectors" either, but Camospam's Canadian, so...

In "It's A Matter Of Death And Life", the Cameron Burke who Carson has never met before is mistaken for a Ronald Lundquist, even though she would have seen the lad at the three previous commencement ceremonies, if nowhere else, and has eidetic memory.

I've never heard "Ron" or "Ronnie" used as a nickname for a Cameron. That may also be a Canadian/Nova Scotian thing. Wikipedia gives the name a three-syllable pronunciation (like Cameron Diaz. Spanish speakers might normally read it as a three-syllable name), but two syllables ( /ˈkæmrən/ KAM-rən or even /ˈkæmren/ KAM-ren, and that might depend on the pin/pen divide in dialects) is more familiar to me.

Nonetheless, it was very inappropriate for Elizabeth Carson in her position to use a familiar diminutive version of a student's name unless the student themself used it or she knew the student's family damned well, in which case she would have known that that wasn't Lundquist in front of her. She's a Midwesterner by upbringing and not of a generation that is comfortable with first name at first meeting. ( The really stupid cold-callers use a dimunitive of my first name when starting their sales pitch. Toss in a New Yawk accent for the complete not-a-chance-in-hell. )

First, Carson had her back to Cameron when he entered as she thought it was going to be Ronald. She did this to show him that his staying at Whateley was by the choice he would make and that she was trying to show him she didnt care either way. She was playing a MIND GAME with a student. Instead of making sure it was who it was who she thought it was she got careless an turned her back towards the door it is going to back it is going backfire on her like nothing else ever has. She has a job that no one in their right mind would truly ever want. I think she has made alot of mistakes with alot of students but nothing like this and nothing that has had the effects of this one act of carelessness. I truly believe that she gives 100% of herself to make sure each student is given every opportunity to succeed. The main problem for Carson comes from so many of staff at Whateley has priorities to other groups or nothing on their minds but getting what is theirs. It seems to me that the school’s definition of Neutratility is wrong from the beginning. There should be NONE influence from outside sources.. Now I know what you are goign to say that you can never cut out all influence and you are are correct.. But Carson and predecessors before her should have immediately fired anyone that came to light as having other priorities to outside influence like the Syndicate, the Alphabet Soup Agencies an anyone trying to sell information or make extra money off any of the students in anyway. Hartford as an example should have been fired long ago. As long as this concept of Neutrality is used you can expect problems. Another problem with the universe is how so many of the students arrive at Whateley without a parent of guardian with them. There is no way in hell any School would allow this. Cameron would have had his Guardian with him when he checked in and that person would have immediately made it clear that there was a mistaken in identities. An another example of an error that would have never happen was when Kayda showed up at Whateley and her schedule took for ever to get right . No parent would have allowed such a mental stress like that to begin with. In all of the local HIgh Schools in the county I live and surrounding counties make parents show up when a child transfers in after the school year has started and do everything they can when incoming freshmen that their parents show up ahead of time to make sure all paperwork is done properly. Now this doesn’t happen in everycase but it is the overwhelming majority of the time. Parents just don’t pay all this money, stick their child on an airplane(bus or train either) and say good luck. This is the format on which most of these stories are written on. Chou riding a horse from Nashville to Whateley is another example of this. No where in any country who has as many freedoms as this country has would the MCO ever be allowed to operate as they do as heavy handed as they do. I understand why the MCO is made to be the bad guy as they have become for every mutant. It is nice to see that not everyone in that organizatioin is a nazi thug(Absinthe’s dad and a few others from other stories have been shown to be what everyone considers a good cop persona). I don’t thing Camo hates this universe no more than I do.. I love how much talent the authors have in this art form. Some I think could make a very good living for themselves as authors. But when you make the universe so one sided in one view point you can’t get upset when someone brings up a different point of view.

I did not realize that I was replying to CrazyMinh’s statement and do not mean this toward his comment. Sorry about that CM

SDom

SDom111 wrote: Another problem with the universe is how so many of the students arrive at Whateley without a parent of guardian with them. There is no way in hell any School would allow this. Cameron would have had his Guardian with him when he checked in and that person would have immediately made it clear that there was a mistaken in identities.

How many of the schools you've worked at have been boarding schools that accept out-of-state and international students? It may be relatively rare for parents to accompany the kids they're shipping off, because the rich kids should know the drill already and the poor or middle-clase kids' families may have trouble paying for the trip.

Keep in mind that some of the students are on the run FROM their parents/guardians because they've mutated. Chou Lee is on the run from something even worse. Cameron is a foreign national. Such things complicate matters. (Note that some of the more local parents do drop off and pick up their kids.) Razorback's from Australia and requires special accomodations.

SDom111 wrote: An another example of an error that would have never happen was when Kayda showed up at Whateley and her schedule took for ever to get right . No parent would have allowed such a mental stress like that to begin with.

Kayda wasn't really thinking straight, so she wasn't keeping her parents in the loop, and South Dakota is quite a distance from New Hampshire.

Quite a few parents would let it go on, although I don't think the Franks were written like that.

I may be wrong but the majority of the students do not come from rich families. That is why scholarships and work study are so important. My family definitely wasn’t rich. My dad worked 3 jobs at times an my mother twice while I was growing up worked 2 jobs just to send my brother an I to sport camps. I remember twice my mother was offered for me to ride with some of the other parents going and she was polite but she made it clear either my dad or her would take me. My parents weren’t any different from my friends parents. Kayda was thinking clearly but Hartford shot her down and finally said that she needed to accept the schedule till school got all the information. Her parents are rich and so were Elaine Nalley’s family. Now this is where I have to get on Elrod,(sorry Elrod for using you again) but with all of the connections Mr. Franks has that he could not have found a private jet even if he had to called the Governor of the state that would have kept him or his wife from beign there when Kayda was being arrested for killing Hekote. There is no way in hell that mother would not have gotten there. He would have sold everything, driven 24 hours straight if needed. So would have the majority of the parents.. I know the universe is written with extreme prejudices of alot of people; Humanity First, Bigoted Parents(more afraid than knowledgeable) and such present such challenges that are written. The universe is written where extreme challenges is norm not the ocassional event. I like some of the directions second year gen writers are taken things such as Morpheus having a hero and ex villain becoem lovers. Some of the storylines are becoming more about character than powers throughout the entire universe. This makes the universe in my opinion better all the way around. Keep up the good work please.

SDom

PS. I just figured out how to leave comments after being a member for awhile, y’all might want to change the site up some so it takes me another year or two to figure out how to leave messages.

SDom111 wrote: I may be wrong but the majority of the students do not come from rich families. That is why scholarships and work study are so important. My family definitely wasn’t rich. My dad worked 3 jobs at times an my mother twice while I was growing up worked 2 jobs just to send my brother an I to sport camps. I remember twice my mother was offered for me to ride with some of the other parents going and she was polite but she made it clear either my dad or her would take me. My parents weren’t any different from my friends parents. Kayda was thinking clearly but Hartford shot her down and finally said that she needed to accept the schedule till school got all the information. Her parents are rich and so were Elaine Nalley’s family. Now this is where I have to get on Elrod,(sorry Elrod for using you again) but with all of the connections Mr. Franks has that he could not have found a private jet even if he had to called the Governor of the state that would have kept him or his wife from beign there when Kayda was being arrested for killing Hekote. There is no way in hell that mother would not have gotten there. He would have sold everything, driven 24 hours straight if needed. So would have the majority of the parents.. I know the universe is written with extreme prejudices of alot of people; Humanity First, Bigoted Parents(more afraid than knowledgeable) and such present such challenges that are written. The universe is written where extreme challenges is norm not the ocassional event. I like some of the directions second year gen writers are taken things such as Morpheus having a hero and ex villain becoem lovers. Some of the storylines are becoming more about character than powers throughout the entire universe. This makes the universe in my opinion better all the way around. Keep up the good work please.

SDom

PS. I just figured out how to leave comments after being a member for awhile, y’all might want to change the site up some so it takes me another year or two to figure out how to leave messages.

Dude, you're being a bit defensive when this isn't even your story. Also, it's pretty damm easy to figure out how to comment. There's literally a button that says 'reply topic'. It's not the site's design that's at fault, nor is it you specifically.

In any case, the story IS non-canon, so it really doesn't matter. However, I would recommend that Camospam tries to make his/her character more believable. They don't...really seem like a fleshed-out character. They flip-flop between being assertive and playing the victim quite a bit, they have a bunch of highly advanced tech that I suspect is not really at the tech level of the WU...unless you're bringing in Devisors or Gadgeteers, but that's a whole other bucket of questions, and they're really just unlikable. They make unfunny quips, the cellmate is reactive for no reason and practically exists to just spout random cliché prisoner lines- at least before flip flopping to becoming the MC's friend for some unexplained reason, and the character- despite being powerless- can somehow use the fucking force to knock this guy on his ass.

Then there's the other hoard of weird shit about the character. For some reason (stu-ness mayhaps?) they have Bruce Goodkind- a notorious anti-mutant multibillionaire- on their side, and not calling in the metaphorical armies of H1 supporters and the literal army of KoP down upon a school for teenage mutants. This is something deeply and suspiciously out of character for a Goodkind. Then there's the fact that there's just no fucking point to half the stuff that happens in the story. it's really a non-story, which has a vague sense of what it wants to be.

By the way, there were some things I can say about it that aren't criticism. Unlike some other stories online, it's pretty well written, with the exception of some minor typos. But, I've written typos in the process of typing out this post, so that's not as big a thing as the rest of the criticism. The grammar is pretty OK, and the writing is pretty clean.

My main gripe is with the story (or lack thereof) , the characterisation (in some cases the OOC side of said characterisation) , and the distinct blandness of some of the dialogue. I mean, Jayden was a total bastard, but at least he had SOME personality. The most that cell guy gets is some cliché lines and a game of geography- which is given far too much explanation for so little payoff. Just like this post.

In any case, there's a lot wrong with the story, but I'm one to talk considering how well MY own character went down.

It has been implied that I hate Whateley.
I am very grateful to the authors and attendants of this site, when I lost everything in a flood a few short years ago, I spent months with a borrowed iPad and spotty wifi to read nearly the entire library. The stories here took me away from the dread of RL and gave me an escape: please accept my thanks given to all the authors.
Later my mother had a heart attack, and I spent months helping with her recovery, it was during this time that I started writing about Outlook. I needed a release between hospitals, doctors, and worrying. As I reread those stories I see my own hurt showing up in Cameron. I hadn't any intention of sharing those stories, It was just my way of trying to heal personal wounds.
I had a friend suggest posting them, at first I put them on Big Closet and it was readers there that suggested I post them to Whateley. I never expected that they would be allowed here nor do I feel they are near the caliber of the stories that I hold dear.
I continue to write, for purely selfish reasons (to become more attuned to myself), not due to a hating anything about Whateley.
I comment on the site rarely, only then to give support and encouragement, social media isn't my thing.
But I needed to say that I hold no malice to this site, the authors or any of the characters. I post stories to try and give enjoyment to the readers, and while perhaps inspire is too strong a notion - spark imaginations suits me best.
Please don't judge a story midway through a conflict, opposing sides must be drawn up to give a story purpose and bring resolution any satisfaction.
With thanks, Camospam.

Camospam wrote: I continue to write, for purely selfish reasons (to become more attuned to myself), not due to a hating anything about Whateley.

You aren't being paid to write. As long as you are getting something out of effort, keep going!

Camospam wrote: I comment on the site rarely, only then to give support and encouragement, social media isn't my thing. But I needed to say that I hold no malice to this site, the authors or any of the characters. I post stories to try and give enjoyment to the readers, and while perhaps inspire is too strong a notion - spark imaginations suits me best.

I learned in recent years that many readers strongly identify with their favorite characters in one or more stories. Judging from reactions I've seen, it can feel like a personal attack when one of those characters is portrayed in a way that's at odds with how they view the character or their self. (Team Phoenix and a group of micro-scenes comes to mind)

That doesn't mean you can't write with/for the character, just that you can expect that some of the reactions can be quite unexpected.

Camospam wrote: It has been implied that I hate Whateley.
I am very grateful to the authors and attendants of this site, when I lost everything in a flood a few short years ago, I spent months with a borrowed iPad and spotty wifi to read nearly the entire library. The stories here took me away from the dread of RL and gave me an escape: please accept my thanks given to all the authors.
Later my mother had a heart attack, and I spent months helping with her recovery, it was during this time that I started writing about Outlook. I needed a release between hospitals, doctors, and worrying. As I reread those stories I see my own hurt showing up in Cameron. I hadn't any intention of sharing those stories, It was just my way of trying to heal personal wounds.
I had a friend suggest posting them, at first I put them on Big Closet and it was readers there that suggested I post them to Whateley. I never expected that they would be allowed here nor do I feel they are near the caliber of the stories that I hold dear.
I continue to write, for purely selfish reasons (to become more attuned to myself), not due to a hating anything about Whateley.
I comment on the site rarely, only then to give support and encouragement, social media isn't my thing.
But I needed to say that I hold no malice to this site, the authors or any of the characters. I post stories to try and give enjoyment to the readers, and while perhaps inspire is too strong a notion - spark imaginations suits me best.
Please don't judge a story midway through a conflict, opposing sides must be drawn up to give a story purpose and bring resolution any satisfaction.
With thanks, Camospam.

Dear god man, I never meant to imply anything like that. I am so sorry that it came out that way. Fuck...I need to work on my social skills more...

To your response null about how many rich kids start boarding schools on their own with no parents or guardians with them is fairly normal. We dont have many boarding schools near me but we have more than a few colleges both public and private and I can promise you this, on first day freshmen can move into their dorms there are boat loads of parents helping them. And we are talking about 18-19 young adults not 14-15 year olds. And especially high percentage of said freshmen attending the college/university from out of state have their parents with them. That I know for a fact. CrazyMinh I am not the one getting defensive even tho that is my nature. It is funny tho how seome people say others are defensive just because they disagree. The thing about this there isnt any more craziness in this story as any of the other stories. This whole universe is crazy an that is what makes it so damn good to read an enjoy. You do have to admit tho that reality is thrown out the window a lot just so the mutant kids can be tested and endure hardships. It is like the song by Don Henley “Dirty Laundry” (She can tell you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye). Hardships make great stories especially adventure stories such as our favorite characters at Whateley Academy.
CM you and Null are authors here and you have the right as anyone to be critical of any work here. You put more of yourselves into the universe than just us readers. But the best advice I was given from another Coach is in order to see what problems there are or problems that you are faced with is you have to take a step back look at the situation from a fresh perspective. A different angle in order to see what others see. Yes you write the stories an you hope your readers read what you are writing in the same sense that you are writing it in. That doesnt always happen as like others have said each reader reads what their internal eye sees. As null said earlier in her response to mine, each reader has their favorite characters, One of my favorite characters here believe it or not especially as I have used her as examples of what my opinion is is Kayda. Another favorite is Jericho. Night and Day difference between them. You both critiqued Camo’s story here becuase it is written in a different viewpoint from any of the other authors writing here. He has shown Whateley in a bad light or what could happen when someone in authority makes a mistake. Does’t mean he is a Whateley HATER. That truly sounds like someone is defensive about what they believe is right.

SDom

SDom111 wrote: To your response null about how many rich kids start boarding schools on their own with no parents or guardians with them is fairly normal. We dont have many boarding schools near me but we have more than a few colleges both public and private and I can promise you this, on first day freshmen can move into their dorms there are boat loads of parents helping them. And we are talking about 18-19 young adults not 14-15 year olds. And especially high percentage of said freshmen attending the college/university from out of state have their parents with them. That I know for a fact. CrazyMinh I am not the one getting defensive even tho that is my nature. It is funny tho how seome people say others are defensive just because they disagree. The thing about this there isnt any more craziness in this story as any of the other stories. This whole universe is crazy an that is what makes it so damn good to read an enjoy. You do have to admit tho that reality is thrown out the window a lot just so the mutant kids can be tested and endure hardships. It is like the song by Don Henley “Dirty Laundry” (She can tell you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye). Hardships make great stories especially adventure stories such as our favorite characters at Whateley Academy.
CM you and Null are authors here and you have the right as anyone to be critical of any work here. You put more of yourselves into the universe than just us readers. But the best advice I was given from another Coach is in order to see what problems there are or problems that you are faced with is you have to take a step back look at the situation from a fresh perspective. A different angle in order to see what others see. Yes you write the stories an you hope your readers read what you are writing in the same sense that you are writing it in. That doesnt always happen as like others have said each reader reads what their internal eye sees. As null said earlier in her response to mine, each reader has their favorite characters, One of my favorite characters here believe it or not especially as I have used her as examples of what my opinion is is Kayda. Another favorite is Jericho. Night and Day difference between them. You both critiqued Camo’s story here becuase it is written in a different viewpoint from any of the other authors writing here. He has shown Whateley in a bad light or what could happen when someone in authority makes a mistake. Does’t mean he is a Whateley HATER. That truly sounds like someone is defensive about what they believe is right.

SDom

I doth think the lady protests too much

CrazyMinh your comment that it's only IF is indeed true, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
I replied to let you know that there was a person on the receiving end of your rant, and find your response to be woefully insufficient to account for the hurt caused.

I contributed stories to lend a voice to keep a dream alive, not let the characters I came to love die, because I thought it did matter.
I sought to have a kinship with the authors who gave to me a laugh and some intrigue.
However I find instead that all I have in common is to be yet another author that has lost the desire to expose themselves.
I shall no longer be giving my time and energy to this site.

In sincerity I give thanks to the many who lent me a hand, who read my work and expressed enjoyment, laughed at a touch of silliness. To these, my friends, I say goodbye.

Ah shit...look camospan, I have nothing against you or your work. This has kinda blown out of proportion, and I think everyone needs to calm down and stop making over dramatic statements. You don’t seriously mean you’re leaving, do you??? I mean, it’s not THAT bad now, is it?

...

...

Oh shitting dick nipples this is for real.

I don’t know what to do....Kristin, anyone?? A little help???

Camospan, I am enjoying your story immensely as it is written from a different perspective than many other stories which makes your story interesting.
All of us fans whether commenting on non-cannon or cannon stories need to remember imo that these stories are works of fiction set in the NOT REAL WORLD of Whateley! As such anything goes.
Please continue to post your stories here for my benefit as well as the 2000 or so other fans who normally don’t comment on the stories but enjoy them all

Not a lady at all CM. You do need to work on your social skills as well as look at profiles of people you are discussing matters with so not to make mistakes that are easily avoidable. You said I was being defensive when it wasnt even my story. You as a writer here on this site should understand more than just us readers how much work it takes to put a story together and actually make it readable. Not just you but some of the other writers get a little testy when a reader gives some critique about the story itself.

And yes I have known since th beginning how to submit a comment but chose not to as I had some some of the authors be a bit too defensive about some of the critiqe they were given. I finally made a decision to post some thoughts that I have had since beginning on this site and more than one author proved to not like my critique not because my information was wrong but my viewpoint as a reader was different than what the story arch was by some of the authors. Here is more proof of exacctly that. You and another author didnt like how this author gave another viewpoint on what could happen at Whateley and you made it clear what you thought about it. Dont be so quick to judge what readers read my friend, when the matter comes across to them different what you intended for it to be seen in. Each writer ought to write the story that they want to write. There are cannon authors where they must work together to put maintain the direction that the site owners want. If you dont want other authors adding deferent view points then close the universe to only those of the cannon authors. Thats the choice of the owners of the site

Good luck to each contributing author here, keep providing your talents for all to enjoy and I wish each of you the best success and health going forward

SDom

SDom111 wrote: To your response null about how many rich kids start boarding schools on their own with no parents or guardians with them is fairly normal. We dont have many boarding schools near me but we have more than a few colleges both public and private and I can promise you this, on first day freshmen can move into their dorms there are boat loads of parents helping them. And we are talking about 18-19 young adults not 14-15 year olds. And especially high percentage of said freshmen attending the college/university from out of state have their parents with them. That I know for a fact.

College is vastly different, mostly because the freshmen being moved in are bringing a load of stuff with them. E.g., my parents did help me move in. Not having a reliable vehicle of my own until after college may have also played into that. Being 16 at the time also made things interesting for one of my classes (the instructors forgot that *anyone* could sign up).

If it had been one of the other colleges considering me, we would have said good-bye at the airport. A thousand-mile trip, which would have required my little brother to come along, in a car, would have been traumatic for all concerned.

SDom111 wrote: You do have to admit tho that reality is thrown out the window a lot just so the mutant kids can be tested and endure hardships.

TV Tropes has an entire page on just one of the requirements.

SDom111 wrote: As null said earlier in her response to mine, each reader has their favorite characters, One of my favorite characters here believe it or not especially as I have used her as examples of what my opinion is is Kayda.

I think that she's one of the better examples of how wildly different the readers' views of the character vary from what the author may think he's written, and the Whateley Universe audience is by far more sane than many of the larger fandoms.

I'd just like to say that I'm enjoying this story and it's very different slant on the Whateley Universe. Cameron seems like a thoroughly nice chap - I've heard it's obligatory for Canadians - so I'm sure that the story will work itself out.

It's probably as well that he's not an odds mangler as well.

Looking forward to the next episode.

Camospam wrote: CrazyMinh your comment that it's only IF is indeed true, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
I replied to let you know that there was a person on the receiving end of your rant, and find your response to be woefully insufficient to account for the hurt caused.

I contributed stories to lend a voice to keep a dream alive, not let the characters I came to love die, because I thought it did matter.
I sought to have a kinship with the authors who gave to me a laugh and some intrigue.
However I find instead that all I have in common is to be yet another author that has lost the desire to expose themselves.
I shall no longer be giving my time and energy to this site.

In sincerity I give thanks to the many who lent me a hand, who read my work and expressed enjoyment, laughed at a touch of silliness. To these, my friends, I say goodbye.

Camospan, look: I am so sorry. I never meant to cause you any harm, and for causing you to feel this way, I'm deeply sorry. Sorry never means anything in my experience, and actions mean more, but in this case, I don't know what actions could make this better. I'm sorry that I've unintentionally (but effectively nonetheless (sadly)) driven you off the WU or it's community. No one should have to be driven off something they love because some socially awkward dickwad like me said something obnoxious and shared a opinion that I regret now in retrospect. I never intended to hurt you, or blatantly attack your work. I never meant to insinuate that you hated Whateley.

But it still happened, and all I can do is say that I'm sorry.

I never meant this thread to go down the dark path it did, and all I intended to do was share some criticism. It is my fault and my fault alone that I ended up making some inadvertently hurtful comments towards you and your work. I'm a very agressive person when it comes to my opinion, and mate: I'm sorry. I don't know how many times I can say this, but I know that sorry means nothing.

I don't know what else to say. I hope you have it in you to come back, and if you don't, I'd like to apologise to the community for driving away a valued member, and for being such a colossal dick in this scenario.

Sorry dude.

SDom111 wrote: Not a lady at all CM. You do need to work on your social skills as well as look at profiles of people you are discussing matters with so not to make mistakes that are easily avoidable. You said I was being defensive when it wasnt even my story. You as a writer here on this site should understand more than just us readers how much work it takes to put a story together and actually make it readable. Not just you but some of the other writers get a little testy when a reader gives some critique about the story itself.

Okay, for one: 'I think the lady doth protest too much' is a saying that isn't dependant on gender. If you look back through the forums a bit, you'll find it aimed at me at one point by Null...I think.

Two: yes, I do need to work on my social skills. Obviously they have let me down in this circumstance.

Three: Yes I'm aware how writers get testy. I do riff bad fanfiction as a hobby.

CrazyMinh wrote: Okay, for one: 'I think the lady doth protest too much' is a saying that isn't dependant on gender. If you look back through the forums a bit, you'll find it aimed at me at one point by Null...I think.

That's not one of my usual misquotes. Nevertheless, a shame about the Danish boy, isn't it?

Nevertheless, a shame about the Danish boy, isn’t it?

I truly hope that sentiment wasn’t meant for Camospan.

SDom

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." is a line from "Hamlet", which is set in Denmark, but in a different century from two of my WhatIF characters.

Something is rotten in the State of Denmark.

Through observation, I have observed that Minh is very... vocal about his opinions, and while being assertive and sure of one's self is a good thing, to some it might come across as... well... blunt or forceful.

Rose Bunny wrote:
Through observation, I have observed that Minh is very... vocal about his opinions, and while being assertive and sure of one's self is a good thing, to some it might come across as... well... blunt or forceful.

Yep. That describes me pretty well. Unfortunately. It's kinda a problem for me, as I tend to think in pure black and white, and not shades of grey. If I don't like something, I despise it immensely. If I love something, I will hear nothing bad about it. Also, it's probably the reason that I'm so pissed about that show now that I think about it...

Kristin Darken wrote: When people discuss the Whateley past and wonder how it is that good authors would walk away from such a great project as the WU and all the excitement and community involved... and we explain how a few over-zealous members of our community gave feedback that made it hard to have fun with it anymore? This is the sort of event that we are talking about. This sort of casual, unthinking event is why Team Kimba isn't still brawling in the streets of Boston every couple months. No one involved thinks Camo is being over-sensitive to feedback, right? The problem here is entirely, 100%, on a member of the community who took their personal opinion that one step too far. In this case, that step is when it turned from being criticism of the story to criticism of the author. And that shouldn't happen. Ever.

I'm hoping that Camo will leave his stories up and that, after a chance to give these wounds a chance to heal, that he'll return to us. For that to happen, we're going to have to work to be sure that we can earn his trust back.. because no one should give someone another chance and just get hurt again.

But its also possible that we've lost both an author and a member of our community for good as a result of this callous attitude. And I can't blame Camospam for wanting to walk away. We promised a safe place to hang out, write, get some feedback... and we failed to provide it. We should be better than that.

As the cause of this mess, I'm willing to take a temporary ban, if the mods feel that's appropriate. I did cause considerable hurt to another member of the community, and possibly alienated them in the process.

Minh, I don't think we need to take it to that level, just try to... dial it back some? We know you are very opinionated, just... remember that some things take a velvet glove, not an iron gauntlet.

For starters, Minh, you might want to actively keep from use of the F-Bomb. Not don't use it so much, or only when REALLY needed. Stop.

For one this automatically dials back the tone of your posts and, at the risk of sounding like Captain America, it makes everything more pleasant. More to the point, we try to keep these forums PG13 and even the Merc with the Mouth has to dial back his Hard 'R' in here.

Thanks!

Kristin Darken wrote: When people discuss the Whateley past and wonder how it is that good authors would walk away from such a great project as the WU and all the excitement and community involved... and we explain how a few over-zealous members of our community gave feedback that made it hard to have fun with it anymore? This is the sort of event that we are talking about. This sort of casual, unthinking event is why Team Kimba isn't still brawling in the streets of Boston every couple months. No one involved thinks Camo is being over-sensitive to feedback, right?

Given some of the comments, I'd be hard-pressed to say he was being over-sensitive. One of the most brutal comments had no cursing at all.

While I'm sure that many authors are capable writing stock characters to a formula, I think that for many stories the main cast includes an author insert or an author's friend insert. Even those that have less of the author's self built into them still carry something personal, even if it's just some of the author's aspirations. That may also explain some of the skew in personality types that predominate among heros and villains or protagonists and antagonists.


As an exercise, I'd recommend for Minh to take a copy of his critiques and re-write them with "your mother" replacing "your character" (other pronouns changing as needed, "fleshed-out character" to "mature person", etc.) That might provide a measure of perspective.

Kristin Darken wrote:

CrazyMinh wrote: As the cause of this mess, I'm willing to take a temporary ban, if the mods feel that's appropriate. I did cause considerable hurt to another member of the community, and possibly alienated them in the process.

I'm not much of a fan of the temporary ban as a correctional method. The only ban that works is the one that doesn't end as a means of cutting ties... and even that, we all know... is only a measure of 'formal' action. In any practical sense, a ban can't really be enforced without being willing to lock out an entire region of users. And no matter how you look at it, no ban solves the problem... it just keeps the problem off your lawn.

No, Mihn, a temporary ban is not on the table. But you WILL work on the tone of your posts, or I'll turn on moderated posts for your account. And given that we don't have official moderators... your posts would sit queued for however long it took for one of the authors to bother to look at them and likely get denied with the slightest appearance of being an ass.

Sure. This entire thing has been a bit of a wake-up for me about how I need to start acting. I'll work on how I tone my posts from now on. I apologise again for this entire series of unfortunate events.

Mihn, all person can do is recognize they made a mistake, own up to it, apologize and then truly work on changing the behavior.. You have done the first 3 items and do not think even camospan would say your apology wasnt sincere. We all have made mistakes and none of us could cast the first stone. My best advice is offered by Herm Edwards. Coach Edwards use to do the initial orientation meeting that all NFL draftees have to attend before they can report to their teams. His advice is “before you respond to any emotional message, put the phone down, walk away for 5 minutes, come back adn hit cancel”

Good luck Mihn

SDom

It's good advice. I would amend it slightly. I found that many times, when some... stuff made me really angry, I spent quite a few hours researching the material so I could write the perfect demolishing reply. And then...
...I reread it, found that all that research forced me to verbalize some half-structured ideas I had in the back of my mind, learned something about myself in the process...
...and deleted the post without ever clicking on "Submit." Once I had verbalized my own issues, I usually found that I either wasn't that angry anymore, or that I reconsidered the wisdom of jumping in that particular fray. And let go.
To me, it's like venting to a psychotherapist. Except much cheaper, and not restricted to scheduled 50-minute sessions.
OK, some times even after going through that process, I found I still had something to say. But it ended up being rewritten from scratch, because pretty much nothing of the first draft was salvageable other than link URLs and individual words I had to research the spelling of. Totally different tone, usually a set of points with no resemblance to the points I originally thought I wanted to make...

So: anything that you write in anger should not get posted. Ever. But it should be reread later and analyzed.

(An admission: I recently violated my own rule, sort of. I posted a rather aggressive message in the "measuring systems" thread. I kept looking over my shoulder afterwards waiting for the moderator to stomp on me... I guess I squeaked by because I came short of actually using an ad hominem attack. But the tone was not as nice as I strive to be. Sorry about that.)