Question Sexuality Changed by Mutation

I was wondering if we had any known instances of a mutation changing a character's sexual orientation without also changing their biological gender in some way.

I haven't read all the stories, but I haven't seen one yet...

But at the same time, I don't think there'd be any ground for it. Even if someone's sexuality would turn out different, how would you say it's their mutation causing it? One could just say they found out they were attracted to the other side. It'd be pretty hard to prove otherwise.

It wouldn't be an obvious trait unless it was really aggressively making them attracted to the other sex. Would Fling fit in this case? Since his power completely rewrites his personality for each new form he takes. Jack is aroused around girls, Molly is quite obviously attracted to a man, and Jackie is a lesbian (potentially bi). Sure Jack can changes gender when he transform, but flipping between Molly and Jackie does fit the bill right? :3

Then the question might have to be refined for the true objective. Maybe split in two ways:

1: Has anyone's sexuality been changed without changing their bodies.

2: Has anyone's sexuality been changed without specifically changing the gender?

I'd even mention a third, where you may want to avoid split-personalities, or mind control cases, but that may be going off base.

I havn't seen this for Whateley but someone did write a story like that set in Morphius's Twisted Universe, its called Twisted Throwback .

Polk Kitsune wrote: I'd even mention a third, where you may want to avoid split-personalities, or mind control cases, but that may be going off base.

You're no fun (-___- )

... so since GSD is out, all we have left are devises and avatars. And teenage mutant hormones in a school full of exemplar eye candy.

EDIT:

konzill wrote: I havn't seen this for Whateley but someone did write a story like that set in Morphius's Twisted Universe, its called Twisted Throwback .

Oh, that might be worth taking a look :3

GrimGrendel wrote:

Polk Kitsune wrote: I'd even mention a third, where you may want to avoid split-personalities, or mind control cases, but that may be going off base.

You're no fun (-___- )

... so since GSD is out, all we have left are devises and avatars. And teenage mutant hormones in a school full of exemplar eye candy.

We're looking for sings of people's own mutations changing their orientation, not someone else's. >3 I'm being technical.

Don't forget symptoms like dricking' out, or magical artifacts.

Well, as Kristin said, "most" manifestations take place in early puberty. And, in fact, most of the POV characters fit this mold -- we don't really KNOW Nick Reilly's sexuality pre-manifestation, for instance -- or Hannah Declan's for that matter. The ones we do know about (like Brandon/Kayda Franks and, to a lesser degree of certainty, Trevor/Ayla Goodkind) seem to have kept their previous orientation. But I suppose it could happen, and probably happened in the past -- sexuality and gender identity are very complex issues, but there's SOME evidence around that they are at least partially physiological. If manifestation changes the parts of the brain responsible for the physiological component of sexuality. (or gender identity for that matter).... It just hasn't happened on-camera yet.

I expect that might be an interesting story. I mean, it's one thing to see your body change; it's a different thing to realize that your mind has changed in some fundamental level. Lots of room for introspection here, like "if my mutation changed the way I think and feel... am I still me?"

Sir Lee wrote: I expect that might be an interesting story. I mean, it's one thing to see your body change; it's a different thing to realize that your mind has changed in some fundamental level. Lots of room for introspection here, like "if my mutation changed the way I think and feel... am I still me?"

Hrm. Quite true. It puts the whole 'I think, therefore I am' in doubt.

The trick part though, is adding more to the concept. How does somebody notice that they are being changed mentally that way? Is it only the sexuality? What else woudl be going on?

In any vase, food for thoughts.

Morpheus handled the "how do you know your sexuality has changed part" in another of his stories (not a Whateley one), were he had a traumatic event change one of his characters, and her run back to her lover after it and get absolutely no physical reactions to intimacy with her, just nothing! Still emotionally ecstatic to see her, but none of the normal physical reactions of sexual excitement, then getting them unexpectedly for her new orientation.

Sir Lee wrote: Lots of room for introspection here, like "if my mutation changed the way I think and feel... am I still me?"

I ended up considering something like this a while back and decided that I am always me. It is possible that I didn't used to be me, and it's possible that I won't be me in the future, but in the present I am always me. It is unfortunate for the past mes if they have stopped existing and been replaced by the current me, but such is life. The current me didn't exist until they stopped existing, so it can't be held responsible for their loss and is under no obligation to stop existing so that they can return. Just as I'm under no obligation to kill myself and donate my heart to somebody dying of heart failure. Maybe it's their own fault their heart failed, or maybe it's not, but it certainly isn't my fault, so I'm going to keep on living. I may, at my discretion, endeavor to remember the past mes and what they've done, of course. I don't have to be an asshole about it. But at the end of the day, I'm alive and they aren't, so I'm just going to keep on being me, and any other mes who don't like that can go fuck themselves.

Sir Lee wrote: Well, as Kristin said, "most" manifestations take place in early puberty. And, in fact, most of the POV characters fit this mold -- we don't really KNOW Nick Reilly's sexuality pre-manifestation, for instance -- or Hannah Declan's for that matter. The ones we do know about (like Brandon/Kayda Franks and, to a lesser degree of certainty, Trevor/Ayla Goodkind) seem to have kept their previous orientation. But I suppose it could happen, and probably happened in the past -- sexuality and gender identity are very complex issues, but there's SOME evidence around that they are at least partially physiological. If manifestation changes the parts of the brain responsible for the physiological component of sexuality. (or gender identity for that matter).... It just hasn't happened on-camera yet.

I expect that might be an interesting story. I mean, it's one thing to see your body change; it's a different thing to realize that your mind has changed in some fundamental level. Lots of room for introspection here, like "if my mutation changed the way I think and feel... am I still me?"

Yeah. And the one that i can think of that doesn't fit the puberty mold other than Caitlin, we will possibly have to wait a couple decades to learn her current orientation having high levels of the traits known to slow aging and becoming physically 10 years old

JG wrote: For this to happen, I would say that the mind as a whole would have to rewire itself significantly enough that there's no guarantee the original personality would survive as much more than an echo.

Is it possible? Sure, probably.

Is it possible for this to happen while retaining the original, core personality of the person?

I would liken it, in whateley terms as trying to use a blood transfusion from a regen 6 to try and beat cancer while attempting to have your body stay as-is and not getting genetically re-written to match the donor template and possibly causing a mindwipe.

IRL documented cases of post op trans folk whose orientation has shifted during or even after operation(s). A lot of these shifts are suspected of being caused by the change in hormonal balances. So yes, you can have the core personality retained with an orientation flip WITH a gender flip.
I myself noticed a change in orientation during my transition, though I'm asexual I have found that I'm no longer just attracted to women.

Dawnfyre wrote: IRL documented cases of post op trans folk whose orientation has shifted during or even after operation(s). A lot of these shifts are suspected of being caused by the change in hormonal balances. So yes, you can have the core personality retained with an orientation flip WITH a gender flip.
I myself noticed a change in orientation during my transition, though I'm asexual I have found that I'm no longer just attracted to women.

There are also just as many cases where sexuality did not change over the course of transition, and it is debatable whether hormones are the root cause, or simply being more at ease in your preferred role and more open to explore your sexuality after all the bits are in the right place. HRT didn't make me less of an ace, so I'm not convinced about the hormone theory influencing sexuality. Can't guarantee it won't change with SRS though.

GrimGrendel wrote: There are also just as many cases where sexuality did not change over the course of transition, and it is debatable whether hormones are the root cause, or simply being more at ease in your preferred role and more open to explore your sexuality after all the bits are in the right place. HRT didn't make me less of an ace, so I'm not convinced about the hormone theory influencing sexuality. Can't guarantee it won't change with SRS though.

Question though:
If the 'straight male' transitioned to become female and wound up attracted to men afterwards, making them a 'straight female', did their orientation actually change? Hetero to Hetero sounds like it stayed the same.

Dawnfyre wrote: Question though:
If the 'straight male' transitioned to become female and wound up attracted to men afterwards, making them a 'straight female', did their orientation actually change? Hetero to Hetero sounds like it stayed the same.

I would say yes, as the object of attraction changed.

What stayed constant in this scenario is not the sexual orientation, but the position this person has within the more mainstream sexuality of their gender role at the time. Some people find comfort in matching expectations and might find it awkward and unpleasant to suddenly identify as gay or lesbian, and nothing's wrong with that. I will just say that their sexuality did change, yet they remained within the more widely accepted social group.

Their orientation relative to their physical gender doesn't change, but as their physical gender changes, so too does their orientation for this specific scenario. That's my take, at least.

Can Sexuality be changed by mutation... probably.

There are instances of physical changes by mutation (OMG I've suddenly got scales), Mental changes by mutation (All of a sudden I feel like tearing the crap out of someone!!!!) and Changes in taste or preference (I no longer like eating meat and prefer vegetables).

Soooo... irregardless of where, inside someone, sexuality is controlled or governed by... it's entirely possible that it can be changed.

I remind everyone of Oak, and his PBS nature documentaries that serve as his porn, because to him sex involves insects.

E. E. Nalley wrote: I remind everyone of Oak, and his PBS nature documentaries that serve as his porn, because to him sex involves insects.

I’m afraid my reply was at a higher volume than I typically use. “Maybe that’s because the rest of us aren’t into INSECT PORN!” And I thrust my finger out in accusation, pointing to the smutty picture he had over his soil bed: a swarm of bees!

“I get it in fifty spots at once,” he taunted, “and I can go all day!”

I still think he was leading me on. It’s hard to believe that plant sex is all that great. Still, I knew where to draw the line. He doesn’t hassle me about my little eccentricities, and I don’t bother him when he pollinates in public.

This brings up a couple of interesting, if disturbing, questions.

Exactly what sort of life form is Oak compatible with?
And Just how many children does Oak have?
Does he produce nuts?
Would it be Cannibalism if someone ate those nuts?

Sexuality can most likely be changed by mutation. At least indirectly. A strong avatar could easily change this.
The spirit being off gender from host being the mostly obvious way but the spirit having an alternative sexuality as well.
Especially the ancient ones. After a few thousand years who knows just how open minded you would become.

If I'm not mistaken Saladin manifested when he was on his pilgrimage to the Mekkah, along with his power came his sexuality.

Now, we don't know when this happened or if he was aware of his sexuality before that event, however I can say that I started to feel the first signs of being straight a few years before hitting puberty, I would have noticed if I suddenly found myself attracted to members of my own sex, so I doubt he was unaware.

Reference, please? That would be an interesting addition to the wiki...
(We do know that he has made his pilgrimage to Makkah / Mekkah / Mecca because his name includes "al Hajj", but other than that I can't recall much details on his bio having ever been given...)

Sir Lee wrote: Reference, please? That would be an interesting addition to the wiki...
(We do know that he has made his pilgrimage to Makkah / Mekkah / Mecca because his name includes "al Hajj", but other than that I can't recall much details on his bio having ever been given...)

I might have been misreading but I was refering to this:

Five Elements Dancing - Book of Metal wrote: Facing Mecca, Sayyid remained bowed and breathing slowly, letting his mind remain clear. He knew what the Holy Qur’an said about homosexuality, he knew what the Hadith said as well on the issue. He had read the fatwas on the issue and all to no avail. The crux of the problem however, was that he had come into his power and his sexuality while he was praying at the Kab’bah on his Hajj. Surely, he would not have been given this power if Allah had disapproved of his life, his love, especially since that love became realized there, at the most holy spot in all the Islamic world.

Otherself wrote:

Sir Lee wrote: Reference, please? That would be an interesting addition to the wiki...
(We do know that he has made his pilgrimage to Makkah / Mekkah / Mecca because his name includes "al Hajj", but other than that I can't recall much details on his bio having ever been given...)

I might have been misreading but I was refering to this:

Five Elements Dancing - Book of Metal wrote: Facing Mecca, Sayyid remained bowed and breathing slowly, letting his mind remain clear. He knew what the Holy Qur’an said about homosexuality, he knew what the Hadith said as well on the issue. He had read the fatwas on the issue and all to no avail. The crux of the problem however, was that he had come into his power and his sexuality while he was praying at the Kab’bah on his Hajj. Surely, he would not have been given this power if Allah had disapproved of his life, his love, especially since that love became realized there, at the most holy spot in all the Islamic world.

It's possible that his Sexuality was caused by the mutation... BUT... Correlation does not imply Causation

Saladin went on Hajj pre-Whateley, so early puberty (11-13). The way I see it, Saladin realized he was into guys when his power hit not because the manifestation made him gay, but rather that it let him realize it and stop hiding it from himself. Islam has a lot of sections about how Allah can see through whatever illusion or lie you put up so don't even bother. Saladin has taken that to heart. Allah sees him for who he is, and accepts who he is. At least, that is Saladin's interpretation of events. He does not see being gay as an issue when trying to be a good Muslim. He follows the Pillars of the Faith, reads the Qur'an, does everything that he can to be a good person, because when you are the "Righteousness of the Faith" you live the faith.

Re the age of his Hajj:
Yeah, that was about what I had deduced -- that he had gone on Hajj around the age of puberty, that is, 12-13. That fits with his manifesting during the Hajj.

The only thing, and bear in mind that I have NO first-person contact with any Muslim I could ask... is that Wikipedia says that the Hajj is a sacred obligation of adult Muslims. Religiously speaking, is there a definition of what constitutes an "adult" Muslim? Is there some sort of adulthood ceremony, like Jews have bar mitzvahs and Catholics have Confirmation? Because it seems to me that taking a puberty-age boy is sort of pushing it...

In Islam, a boy can be made an adult from the ages 12-15. He started puberty, just in time for Hajj. As he is very mature it was no big deal.
.