Question Dwarves?

So we have the Sidhe filling the "elf" design space and IIRC we know that there's non-mutant-created sidhe somewhere in the Himalayas for orichalcum but what about Dwarves?

Do we know anything about them?

Are they a thing that exists?

If we don't know anything about them how should they be done?

(Also, I'm pretty sure this is my first thread here despite being a fan for awhile now, please excuse me if I make any breach of protocol)

If the parts in the newest story concerning the Dwarf king are accurate. I'd say they are a branch of the Sidhe. Dwarves = Dark Elves if i read the story right.

Ugh, this is what I get for being overwhelmed by too much content and taking the lazy way out by just searching for the word Dwarf. Which story in particular is this?

Elle 1- Dawn of the Aurora part 2. It's this weeks story post. Found the passage that mentions it. Hope it helps.

"I do remember that long ago, there were many Sidhe, of many races. The ice realm, the desert realm, the woods, the plains. Maybe the mountains, too?"

"In my mythology," Elle explained, trying to be patient but really upset because she needed answers that Aegloswen didn't have, "there are ... dwarves, who are like ... dark elves. They were supposed to live in the mountains, I think. Like dwarves in Lord of the Rings and movies and books like that."

"Maybe they were Sidhe?"

"But ... what would they want with me?" Elle practically begged for some kind of answer. "And why do they call me the queen? Is it because they think I'm supposed to be wed to the dwarf king, which would make me his queen?"

Thanks. Now, before I go and actually read it, here's hoping they actually look like Dwarves instead of being elves by another name.

Queshire wrote: Thanks. Now, before I go and actually read it, here's hoping they actually look like Dwarves instead of being elves by another name.

Sorry, but in Norse mythology, the word 'Dwarf' refers to a more elfin-type, also called the dark elves, who dwell underground. They're not the Tolkeinish short, stocky, beared types like in LOTR.

Sorry for bringing this up when you already had it covered. It was a complete oversight by me.

Edit: deleted what I had here since JG makes a good point.

Don't EVER apologize for asking questions or speculating. You might stir up interesting discussion, you learn something, you might get the canon authors thinking.

I NEED readers to ask questions; it's the questions that make me find places my storytelling is weak.

elrodw wrote: Don't EVER apologize for asking questions or speculating. You might stir up interesting discussion, you learn something, you might get the canon authors thinking.

I NEED readers to ask questions; it's the questions that make me find places my storytelling is weak.

and our speculations that feed your mill to grind out more stories.

elrodw wrote: Don't EVER apologize for asking questions or speculating. You might stir up interesting discussion, you learn something, you might get the canon authors thinking.

I NEED readers to ask questions; it's the questions that make me find places my storytelling is weak.

Most importantly though, when a Canon Author gives an answe. Even if you don't like the answer, even if you think the answer should be different, what the author said is the answer. Arguing about it will just get people angry with you, and then bad things happen.

So asking questions, and bringing up things is great, but you have accept the answers given. If you want the answers to be different, you'll need to start your own universe.

To add to the confusion, in canon we also have the Trow , which are described in terms which can be, at the very least, confusing.

Most older takes on the Trow relate them to Trolls (though whether there is a linguistic connection between the words is itself obscure), but the fact that the Drow were named for them ('drow' is sometimes seen as an alternate spelling, as is 'Trowe') is just the starting point as far as confusion is concerned. They were sometimes connected to the Svartalfar, but it isn't clear if they were different from them or not; other stories connect them to everything from Selkies to orcas (the Norse undead, often associated with bodies lost at sea, which according to some are distantly connected to the Etruscan underworld god Orcus, and are a possible source for the name of "orcs" in Tolkien's work) to hobgoblins (which in most early folklore were closer to Rowling's House Elves, being helpful spirits which would do work around the home if respected) to bean sidhe.

From what little we do know about them in WU canon (mostly from "The Widening Gyre" ), they are definitely malevolent Fae of some sort, but what connection they have to Sidhe or Alfar (or what connection those two groups have to each other, for that matter) isn't at all clear. However, the fact that the Troll Bride uses the word Troll in her own title is... uh, damn, it may not mean anything now that I think about it. I dunno.

The dwarf connection? Jadis mentions them as wondersmiths comparable to Wayland, Girudir, and the Artificers. Generally speaking, in Norse mythology the great smiths and engineers were either Dwarves or Giants, and the Trow certainly aren't giants if Tilda Arvidsen is anything to go by (she's tall, yes, but not that tall). Of course, both of those terms are themselves ambiguous as hell, so that doesn't really help.

Valentine wrote:

elrodw wrote: Don't EVER apologize for asking questions or speculating. You might stir up interesting discussion, you learn something, you might get the canon authors thinking.

I NEED readers to ask questions; it's the questions that make me find places my storytelling is weak.

Most importantly though, when a Canon Author gives an answe. Even if you don't like the answer, even if you think the answer should be different, what the author said is the answer. Arguing about it will just get people angry with you, and then bad things happen.

So asking questions, and bringing up things is great, but you have accept the answers given. If you want the answers to be different, you'll need to start your own universe.

Or write WhatIF fiction. Part of the joy of WhatIF is giving a big fat finger to the Canon continuity and going "I want it to be like this!"

From the Wikipedia article on Svartalfar:

Scholars have noted that the svartálfar appear to be synonymous with the dwarfs and potentially also the dökkálfar ("dark elves").

I find it particularly humorous that the "black elves" are very probably dwarfs, but only maybe "dark elves".

My thoughts on the list of monsters given by School-R-Lea:

Orcas are undead in norse mythology?

Zombie whales!

That is all.

Arcanist Lupus wrote: From the Wikipedia article on Svartalfar:

Scholars have noted that the svartálfar appear to be synonymous with the dwarfs and potentially also the dökkálfar ("dark elves").

I find it particularly humorous that the "black elves" are very probably dwarfs, but only maybe "dark elves".

Black elves ( maybe the Drow ) were always supposedly underground dwellers, Dark Elves have always been evil, not subterranean.

add in the inconsistency of 'black elves' being dark in colour when in nature life forms not exposed to light lose colour to become white or transparent over time. Makes the whole concept even more radical.

Dark could refer to either his heart (as in evil) or to coloration. Perhaps we'll find out, eh?

Dark also could just refer to where they live.

Dark elves live in the dark, i.e. underground.

Or it could be they were around in the 'Dark' times, like how the 'Dark Ages' got their name.

It could be many things

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Dark also could just refer to where they live.

Dark elves live in the dark, i.e. underground.

Or it could be they were around in the 'Dark' times, like how the 'Dark Ages' got their name.

It could be many things

Too much ear-shadow.

Or they all could just be worshipers of Natch.

Or even be a comment on their sense of humour.

Maybe even their style of clothes? Goth elves?

US Drow are not 'dark' elves...evil or goth

we are just misunderstood elves and wearing black all the time is just easier to clean darn it---snifff

"The Elf in Black"

"Well, you wonder why I always dress in black,
Why you never see bright colors on my back,
And why does my skin seem to have a somber tone.
Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on."

Truly, though, what the name 'Dark Elves' tells us for certain is... that they were not the ones in charge of their own PR.

lighttech wrote: US Drow are not 'dark' elves...evil or goth

we are just misunderstood elves and wearing black all the time is just easier to clean darn it---snifff

I read a book once as a kid where a boy gets apprenticed to a wizard, and the wizards always wear grey robes. He asks about the robes, guessing that it's some sort of philosophical statement about good and evil, but the truth (or at least what the wizard claimed) was that white gets dirty too easily, and black is too hot in the summer.

Nah. The real answer is "well, you see, it's SUPPOSED to be white, but I can never find the time to do laundry...'

Ewwwww...Just ewwww. Thanks for the visions of super powered racing stripes....

To shift musical genres, I am the only one now thinking of a pointy-eared Will Smith in Ray-Bans?

On second thought, let's stick to Johnny Kosh (because Vorlons are just as much Space Elves as Vulcans), and maybe Elvish Presley.

Yolandria wrote: Ewwwww...Just ewwww. Thanks for the visions of super powered racing stripes....

Now there's something to think about the next time a character gets detention or laundry duty in Hawthorne.