Question The Reason the MCO is back in the G2 stories is ....

That there is a Goodkind in the Whitehouse.

Too bad for the MCO, 2017 has a President that is on the Whateley Board.

*It was stated somewhere that Trump is a board member.

I'm not sure if I should answer this one, as it's a bit of a spoiler. I think I can safely say the reason has already been hinted at in released gen 2 stories.

Nagrij wrote: I'm not sure if I should answer this one, as it's a bit of a spoiler. I think I can safely say the reason has already been hinted at in released gen 2 stories.

Does it have to do with this referenced "Fool's Fight"?

I don't know, I thought Fools fight was an event that happened before Gen1 started ?

Esar wrote: I don't know, I thought Fools fight was an event that happened before Gen1 started ?

nope, I seem to remember the line in one of the gen 2 origins containing "so soon after Fools Fight" You're thinking "Rager's Night," and we now know what happened then.

mhalpern wrote:

Esar wrote: I don't know, I thought Fools fight was an event that happened before Gen1 started ?

nope, I seem to remember the line in one of the gen 2 origins containing "so soon after Fools Fight" You're thinking "Rager's Night," and we now know what happened then.

Huh. Do you think you could find that quote again? Because I'm pretty sure that the Fool's Fight happened in 1991 .

Fools fight is mentioned inThe book of Darwin, so its definatly before G1. it specnfically talks about how the USA and Australia reacted differently to similar events.

“Rager’s Night” was the Fool’s Fight of Australia, though rather than inciting panic and mutant suppression, the parliament of the country had written the laws to punish those who deliberately provoked violence from mutants saddling them with the sins of their target,

Kristin also stated somewhere that Trump is not President, as the 2012 election was won by a Republican.

Arcanist Lupus wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

Esar wrote: I don't know, I thought Fools fight was an event that happened before Gen1 started ?

nope, I seem to remember the line in one of the gen 2 origins containing "so soon after Fools Fight" You're thinking "Rager's Night," and we now know what happened then.

Huh. Do you think you could find that quote again? Because I'm pretty sure that the Fool's Fight happened in 1991 .

I hope it happened before Gen 1, otherwise my canon story A Good Man will be very out of place.

Nagrij wrote: I'm not sure if I should answer this one, as it's a bit of a spoiler. I think I can safely say the reason has already been hinted at in released gen 2 stories.

Fullerton Incident:

Down the Rabbit Hole (Part 3) wrote: My seatmate hummed, toying with his drink. “Probably to deflect from how bad miss Howe made mutants look with her attack; any sort of bad publicity can set back mutant/human relations, and one like this, so soon after Fullerton? Could set it back years.”

I didn't think Fullerton was exactly a new event, though he had a fair point. But he was also way off about something. “Mutants are humans… just more dangerous ones, sometimes.”

.........

The upshot of being thrown under the bus like that had been that my neighbors had mostly stopped treating me as if I were going to explode and pull another Fullerton.

I Don't Think We're in Kansas Anymore (Part 3) wrote: "Bah!" the woman spat angrily. "That idiot Butler has a typical economist's view that people will react rationally to everything, forgetting about events like the Fool's Fight and the Fullerton Incident! And since he got that ... woman ... as an assistant, he's only gotten worse!"

There is at least another istance where it's alluded but not named.

However I have to say that if a piece of knowledge is widely known to the public we should know as well, we don't need to know all the details, just what the general public knows, which might not be the truth.... for exemple the public knows "Mutant goes on a rampage", but they don't know things like "the MCO dosed him with a drug that drove him insane" or "they were aliens trying to cover up their chocolate smuggling operation, using mutants as convenient scape goat" or "the incident never happened, it was a prank made to see how many would get fooled and how long it would take for them to realize that they had been had.... and then the prankers realized just how deep in the shit they were if they were caught and went in full 'cover your ass' mode". But going out of your way to make sure we don't learn what it is when everyone talks about it like everyone knows..... if it was a Noodle Incident I would undestand, it's something that will remain undefined, but keeping us in the dark just to 'wow' us later with something that everyone and their dog are supposed to know is just cheap, it's like hiding the terrorist attacks of the 9/11, everyone knows about it, everyone is reacting to it, but we are not going to tell you so we can blow your mind later, as I've said: cheap.

I don't know anything about Fullerton, but I recall it being stated - though I cannot recall the story - that the Fool's Fight was an incident involving a fight between superheroes and supervillains, and that it took place near the Brooklyn Bridge. I'll see if I can find it, I am certain it was in one of the early Gen1 stories (early chronologically, I think it was Diane who wrote it).

EDIT: Never mind, it's right there in the wiki entry , as is the reference to the story it is mentioned in ( Jade 6 ).

The scene is from an all-freshmen assembly held before the Thanksgiving break, to explain the reasons why the school works together with the MCO on the subject of MIDs (since this was when many of the new students would be required to get one in order to fly home for the break).

Jade 6 - Dreams and Awakenings wrote: On the screen behind her was the famous Brooklyn bridge, with both ends barricaded or smashed and a full load of commuters trapped in the middle. In the air above, a titanic battle raged. The image had become such an icon over the past decade and more that it no longer had a single, simple association. Heroism? Evil? The plight of the normal man caught up in forces beyond his control? A metaphor for the planet? All that and more.

“I hope none of you have trouble recognizing the images of the terrible events of April 1, 1991.” She clicked to another slide, showing Entropy, as he created the trap, blocking off the rush-hour traffic. “The famous ‘Fools Fight.’ While Entropy’s minions threatened civilians, Entropy finally got his face-to-face battle with his eternal nemesis.” Another famous slide clicked into place, showing the battered hero as he delivered the final blow to Entropy. “Of course, Entropy perished, along with most of his minions. As did Battery, and the First City Irregulars were never reformed as a team.” The final slide showed the craters, along with the hundreds of bleeding, weeping civilians.

“We, rather, we mutants at Whateley, tend to focus on Battery and Entropy, and what happened with the various teams. We examine the strategies and morality, we even re-run the battle in our simulators. What we often fail to appreciate is the impact that battle had on normal humanity.

“Of course, that was just one battle. There are hundreds of others, I dare say, that have had similar casualty levels. But the Fools’ Fight was unique because of the still and video images it generated, because of the live news coverage, and because it has become such an icon, particularly among groups such as Humanity First.”

Otherself wrote:

Nagrij wrote: I'm not sure if I should answer this one, as it's a bit of a spoiler. I think I can safely say the reason has already been hinted at in released gen 2 stories.

Fullerton Incident:

Down the Rabbit Hole (Part 3) wrote: My seatmate hummed, toying with his drink. “Probably to deflect from how bad miss Howe made mutants look with her attack; any sort of bad publicity can set back mutant/human relations, and one like this, so soon after Fullerton? Could set it back years.”

I didn't think Fullerton was exactly a new event, though he had a fair point. But he was also way off about something. “Mutants are humans… just more dangerous ones, sometimes.”

.........

The upshot of being thrown under the bus like that had been that my neighbors had mostly stopped treating me as if I were going to explode and pull another Fullerton.

I Don't Think We're in Kansas Anymore (Part 3) wrote: "Bah!" the woman spat angrily. "That idiot Butler has a typical economist's view that people will react rationally to everything, forgetting about events like the Fool's Fight and the Fullerton Incident! And since he got that ... woman ... as an assistant, he's only gotten worse!"

There is at least another istance where it's alluded but not named.

However I have to say that if a piece of knowledge is widely known to the public we should know as well, we don't need to know all the details, just what the general public knows, which might not be the truth.... for exemple the public knows "Mutant goes on a rampage", but they don't know things like "the MCO dosed him with a drug that drove him insane" or "they were aliens trying to cover up their chocolate smuggling operation, using mutants as convenient scape goat" or "the incident never happened, it was a prank made to see how many would get fooled and how long it would take for them to realize that they had been had.... and then the prankers realized just how deep in the shit they were if they were caught and went in full 'cover your ass' mode". But going out of your way to make sure we don't learn what it is when everyone talks about it like everyone knows..... if it was a Noodle Incident I would undestand, it's something that will remain undefined, but keeping us in the dark just to 'wow' us later with something that everyone and their dog are supposed to know is just cheap, it's like hiding the terrorist attacks of the 9/11, everyone knows about it, everyone is reacting to it, but we are not going to tell you so we can blow your mind later, as I've said: cheap.

Well, you found the references; kudos. I'm not sure if I can agree with your assessment of the situation, though, as we (both cabals) typically keep the readers in the dark about things the the characters would know. After all, the fool's fight incident wasn't explained immediately either, IIRC... and that is one example. There are some secrets across cabals that have yet to be revealed as well; Kristin is even hinting at one in other posts... and I can only assume that's a gentle nudge in my muses direction.

All that having been said, there are no current plans by anyone to write the incident mentioned.

Schol-R-LEA wrote: I
EDIT: Never mind, it's right there in the wiki entry , as is the reference to the story it is mentioned in ( Jade 6 ).

The scene is from an all-freshmen assembly held before the Thanksgiving break, to explain the reasons why the school works together with the MCO on the subject of MIDs (since this was when many of the new students would be required to get one in order to fly home for the break).

The assembly and FF are also referenced in To The Mountain, Part 2 , and Ayla 4: Ayla and the Tests (Chapter 8, The Mares of Diomedes) , as Chou and Ayla have their own views on both MIDs and the reasoning/need/justification behind them.

I blame George R. R. Martain he delights in filling his world with important noodle incidents that all the characters understand, and when it works for one author others imitate . Then again "Resist the urge to explain." is pretty standard advice for new writers. And refusing to explain can be an effective way to build suspense. Its an even bigger issue here due to having two sets of stories. Without a fair bit of care G2 stories could easily contain spoilers for things that haven't happened yet in G1. And really if someone in G2 spilt the beans on GEO or Zulu it would be rather anticlimactic. At the moment for all we know the Fullerton incident my very well tie into one of these plot lines. Or it could be the final battle between the Soux Falls Leauge and that class X entity that's stalking Kayda.

Nagrij wrote: Well, you found the references; kudos. I'm not sure if I can agree with your assessment of the situation, though, as we (both cabals) typically keep the readers in the dark about things the the characters would know. After all, the fool's fight incident wasn't explained immediately either, IIRC... and that is one example. There are some secrets across cabals that have yet to be revealed as well; Kristin is even hinting at one in other posts... and I can only assume that's a gentle nudge in my muses direction.

All that having been said, there are no current plans by anyone to write the incident mentioned.

Well, it wasn't that hard to find the references, I did remeber the name of the incident and the stories it appeared in, so all I had to use is Ctrl+F and input "Fullerton" (I actually put in "fuller" to avoid misspelling) and the browser found the quotes for me (I still had to go through a bit of trial and error finding the chapters, though).... Now if it had been G1 that would have been a whole different story, but thanks for the kudos.

As for my assesment, it wasn't a critique, just letting out a bit of frustration as a reader, hopefully as something you could somehow use. I am aware that sometimes is better to leave things unexplained, otherwise the stories would become excessive cluttered with info dumps, it also makes easier for readers to 'digest' the information if it comes in little chunks and leaves the authors with less constraints for their stories. However the Fullerton incident isn't exactly the same things like the Fool's Fight, the Fool's Fight is just a piece of the world that didn't come up because the story focused on the events that were taking place in that moment, the MCO was simply there, that was the way the world worked, then when the Fool's Fight was mentioned it was explained, not in detail but enough to let readers have a general idea about what happened and why it was so impactful: it was a fight between superheroes and supervillains that had collateral damage among the bystanders, it's said to say that it was nothing new, however it was recorded by the newshounds and went live on TV, that generated in a widespread fear of mutants which let the MCO become what it is this day. The Fullerton Incident was mentioned in passing a few times without getting explained and then came that "The MCO is back because, well you know what happened" "Oh, yes, that....", that's VERY different from how the Fool's fight had been handled, the character explicitly talk about it but it is done in a way that deliberately teases us and you authors go to the point where you tell us that we can't know because it would be a spoiler, it's not the flow of the narrative, it's just plainly keeping us in the dark about something everyone knows, while they are talking about it.

I would like to point out that telling us what people know doesn't equate to telling us what happened, I remeber reading about a journalist or historian that went through the paperwork of the late Ottoman Empire and managed to prove that the Empire planned and carried out an act genocide against Armenian people, the turkish nationalists didn't like his work and started creating articles on the Wikipaedia that stated that he was connected to terroristic organizations, that created him a lot of problem and even if he got the administrators of Wikipaedia to remove the atricles the nationalists kept uploading them.... now you could say "is it true?", even if it isn't it proves that lies can be used as weapons, our perception of reality defines it, our experiences shape our coscience, if information is power, misinformation is a tool to manipulate us, that is the nature of information war. Now, think about it, you could tell us what people know without letting us know what really happened, after all the best lie are made mostly of truth, a thing that spindoctors know only too well.

If you bring up an event be prepared to give us the bare bone version of what people are talking about, then maybe pull the rag from under our feets but keep it consistent with the character's knowlecge and expectations.

If you had just said, "We had managed to get rid of the MCO, then a single person makes a mess and everyone pays for it, just to appease the masses." would have been way better.

If someone else doesn't, I plan on telling the tale of the Fullerton Incident. I know how frustrating "noodle incidents" can be to the readers.

Alright, not quoting the reply otherself but I'll take a stab responding to it.

Let's take a look at an example of a well-known terrible event in our own world that shares the same sort of gravity; 9/11.

Whatever views people hold on the subject, whatever the truth, the fact is that from America to the meanest former cannibal living in a mud hut, literally everyone knows the basics of the event. Fullerton is much the same. In our world one does not simply go off on a tangent re-explaining 9/11 to people who already know of the event; only to those rare people who admit beforehand they don't, assuming such people can be found.

So, what you're asking me to do as I understand it, in my own piece, is to break characterization with at least two characters in order to describe an event in more detail that doesn't actually matter to the story I'm writing the characters in. I cannot in good conscience do that; perhaps it's a flaw of mine, perhaps not, but I take my story-crafting a little too seriously to just randomly stick something that I see as ruinous to the flow of the story as a whole in. I work too hard at sucking the reader in to spit them back out on purpose.

The Fullerton event may be written about in the future. The events surrounding Fullerton may also be written about in the future (the event itself did not occur in a vacuum). The event in Fullerton may also be explained in the future without breaking characterization; there are a few viable ways to do such a thing. It just hasn't happened yet.

For the record - Fullerton isn't what leaving our fans in the dark is like. Not making reference to any event at all, and just having the MCO where it is and doing what it has been in gen 2 is. This way you (as a fan) at least know that something happened beyond the normal shenanigans.

elrodw wrote: If someone else doesn't, I plan on telling the tale of the Fullerton Incident. I know how frustrating "noodle incidents" can be to the readers.

Elrod... there is a line. You aren't first in it this time. Hell, I don't even think you're second.

Eh, Hikaru doesn't know about it... then again, considering how crispy she's done her brain cells over her stupidity... *snerk*

And no, I have no interest in writing something like the Fullerton. I'm having enough problems breaking the cute.

I suspect the response of all the foreign stiudents is 'Meh, it was something that happened in America. I think.'
Not to mention that most of the rest arent of an age to be terribly interested in it.

Nagrij, I don't ask to break characterization to shoehorn in some exposition, and please, forgive me if I come across as trying to tell you how to write your stories, but I think that a few tibits could have been worked in without problem, after all people tend to visualize things that they are talking about, telling that shouldn't break any characterization.

Also, I want to point out that I understand what we got out of it, it would have been better if it didn't feel like being teased for it, I remember quoting that line and telling you authors that you are a such tease, the answer was "Yes, we are", so you will have to forgive me if I feel like I'm being teased, then came the comment "I'm not sure if I should answer this one, as it's a bit of a spoiler."..... Ok, I might have overreacted a bit there but it felt like "I could tell you, but it's a spoiler." Sorry but I felt that the teasing had become a bit excessive.

Anyway, I don't want to belittle your work, or tell that I didn't enjoy it, FAR from it, but that particular bit resulted in frustration, and considering that's frustrating being frustrated (yes, I know, Capitain Obvious material here), I pointed it out, so who knows, maybe this little detail doesn't get overlooked and we reader can enjoy the stories without this blemish..... It's like a beautiful melody being played but there's a note out of place, you just wish it wasn't there. I was trying to be constructive in my criticism, sorry if I came across as a whiny ass.

MageOhki wrote: And no, I have no interest in writing something like the Fullerton. I'm having enough problems breaking the cute.

So speaks the one who fomentes Evil plans on the forum.

Otherself wrote: Nagrij, I don't ask to break characterization to shoehorn in some exposition, and please, forgive me if I come across as trying to tell you how to write your stories, but I think that a few tibits could have been worked in without problem, after all people tend to visualize things that they are talking about, telling that shouldn't break any characterization.

Also, I want to point out that I understand what we got out of it, it would have been better if it didn't feel like being teased for it, I remember quoting that line and telling you authors that you are a such tease, the answer was "Yes, we are", so you will have to forgive me if I feel like I'm being teased, then came the comment "I'm not sure if I should answer this one, as it's a bit of a spoiler."..... Ok, I might have overreacted a bit there but it felt like "I could tell you, but it's a spoiler." Sorry but I felt that the teasing had become a bit excessive.

Anyway, I don't want to belittle your work, or tell that I didn't enjoy it, FAR from it, but that particular bit resulted in frustration, and considering that's frustrating being frustrated (yes, I know, Capitain Obvious material here), I pointed it out, so who knows, maybe this little detail doesn't get overlooked and we reader can enjoy the stories without this blemish..... It's like a beautiful melody being played but there's a note out of place, you just wish it wasn't there. I was trying to be constructive in my criticism, sorry if I came across as a whiny ass.

MageOhki wrote: And no, I have no interest in writing something like the Fullerton. I'm having enough problems breaking the cute.

So speaks the one who fomentes Evil plans on the forum.

I didn't take your post as whining, or similar. But the very mention that Fullerton is being thought of as a story, (and therefore probably shouldn't be spoiled with an ending reveal) is kind of itself a spoiler. However since Elrod let that cat out of the bag already, I feel I can safely tell you that if you hold on a bit longer, all those questions you hve will be answered.

We all have to walk a tightrope here on what we can reveal or not, and to be quite frank, I'm still not sure where the line is, so I err on the side of caution.

Hmm another possibility is that they absorbed the KoP, the equipment and personnel making it easier for them to reach farther and lay low on the funny business until people started trusting them again.

Bah. It's so obvious. You have been making references to "Nebraska zombies" since the launch of G2. There's a Fullerton in Nebraska. Ergo, the "Fullerton Incident" is the start of the zombie plague.

Sir Lee wrote: Bah. It's so obvious. You have been making references to "Nebraska zombies" since the launch of G2. There's a Fullerton in Nebraska. Ergo, the "Fullerton Incident" is the start of the zombie plague.

Sorry, but no. But that Fullerton might well be the Fullerton we reference.

My sweet and beautiful zombies occur for another reason, in another city.

Since we have seen Nazi's pop up lately please tell me were going to be seeing Nazi Zombies?

I love that movie... and maybe.

But let's try to get this thread back on the rails, please. We can discuss the love and life of zombies in another thread.

And the lovelives of zombies?

I've always taken the hints of Fullerton to be very much in line with Marvel's Stamford Incident. An accident, a horrible tragedy, but one that demanded a reaction, regardless of fault, blame, or even reality. Something that made Australia's Rager Night pale in comparison.

It's not the few references to Fullerton itself, it is the massive expansion in power and authority that the MCO received. Or in the discussion of problem between Tia and Jamie. Or in the contrast to Japan and the US, or the capitulation of Europe and the UK to the US MCO. Tension between the MCO, H1, the superhero groups, and Evolution Rocks has never been higher. Everyone wants to use whatever they can get. The MCO wants to use Tia has a martyr, and the same goes for mutant groups and Jamie.

It's a nice comparison to the gradually softening interactions with the MCO in Gen 1, furthermore when Absinthe enters the fray. Trust built throughout Gen 1, but then obliterated in a single, tragic event that Gen 2 has yet to recover from, if it ever does.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, it's just consequence.

edit:
I think it threads nicely with the overall sense I've gotten from the Gen 2 stories. It's all been about Identity. The clubs seem less inclusive this time around, the unwarranted hatred toward Taka (presumed gay), the Amazons (well, Brita for sure) hating all the changelings, the more severe reaction in general to outed changelings like Tia, and even some of the male devisors/gageteers being intolerant of girls (lol, why?!), Tanya's storyline, Bianca and the Bad Seeds, and so on.

One common aspect of that could be a sense of betrayal. Mutants feeling betrayed by their families or society, baselines betrayed by mutant "heros", everyone betrayed by the government. Or it could be deconstructed as a shibboleth signifying the ongoing polarization of the writers' own society.

Or not.

No wonder the MCO feels the need to regulate the love lives of nazi zombies pretending to coexist peacefully with the people of Nebraska, while all along being mutant commie jayhawks.