Question Combat Finals

I've been rereading the stories involving the combat finals from the OC, and I have some questions about the functioning of the physical combat finals. Students use guns and swords and energy attacks, but wouldn't that be unsafe??? I mean, if you shoot someone in the wrong place, they're going to die. E.g. if you shot Aquerna in the head...bye bye squirrel girl. I know that the Loophole story Gearhead introduces the 'Simulation' system or something. Does that mean that they're only in the sims, and that they have their holograms projected into the arena??? Wouldn't that contradict the entire purpose of the combat finals: to have a live battle??? Wouldn't that mean that students without sim permission would be excluded from the Combat Finals?? Or is it a devise or gadget that simulates bullet wounds, the bullets themselves and other such things??? Basically, everything lethal is 'dry-fired'.

Another perplexing thing is the hidden cameras. Even if they're wearing masks, the families of the students involved (some of whom are in the dark about the 'mutant' bit of Whateley, or who had their children run away to go to Whateley) would certainly be able to recognise their children. What about high-publicity students like Lapis??? When she does her Combat Final, will the press swarm Whateley after finding out she's there??? Even if they don't reveal the school's secret, getting a chance to swarm a celebrity will be a we dream for a illicit photographer. I mean, if a bunch of priests can get past security, whose to say that some press can't???

In addition, the budget for running such a arena and rebuilding and repairing the thing would exceed the amount of money Whateley actually receives from school fees. If you count up all the OC students who are there on scholarships or partial scholarships, the amount of money required in todays world for the materials like Concrete, steel and other building materials is in the millions. Even with investors like Paramount, the money required is still something that would put unnecessary strain on a school with a population of a few hundred students. Tacking on the regular cost of feeding students, the cost of maintaining such a large campus, ammunition for the ranges, paying staff and faculty, buying school supplies (including stuff that would be extremely expensive such as magic supplies), paying for workshop materials; water, gas and electricity bills...I don't even think the 10% on student profits would help. You're looking at possibly billions of dollars going into running a superhero school. Certainly at least half that would be dealt with by the school's backers, and maybe a 16th from parent fees. But still, that's a shitton of money that the school has to source, and the arenas and ranges would make up a sizable chunk of that budget.

Finally, the combat finals are mandated by what educational law??? I mean, the school outright insists it isn't a superhero school...and yet they have a exam for fighting other mutants. Even if it's to prepare the students for a unforgiving world of mutant hatred, it still doesn't mean that they'd be doing 4-8 Combat Finals over their school career. That's like saying 'Oh, this school doesn't offer a chemistry course' and having a 1st class chemistry lab on campus!!! In that metaphor, the school may PREVIOUSLY have offered a chem course, but in the intervening years, it probably would have turned the lab into something else. My point is...if the school says it doesn't train superheroes, then why does it have a exam for fighting metahuman opponents (Chou excluded).

Ok, let's see...

Realistic training always has a hint of danger, the trick is controlling the danger.
Kinda
No
No
Find out in story, and do you not understand the concept of realistic training? If so, I suggest you google Simunition, MILES, Gunsite and Hogan's Alley.
What about them?
How do you swarm a place when you don't know its location?
We are
The Authors Must Write Interesting Stories Act of 700AD (Beowulf's Law)


Ok, some points. You proceed from a NUMBER of false assumptions which I will not spoon feed you the answers to. You are also taking this WAY too seriously. How does your Heisenberg Compensator work, Mr Roddenberry? Very well, thank you. Finally TONE DOWN the multiple question and exclamation marks, unless you intend to come across as a rude, demanding asshole. There are many ways to provide emphasis that are NOT INSULTING to read!!!

Kay?

CrazyMinh wrote: Does that mean that they're only in the sims, and that they have their holograms projected into the arena???

Upperclassmen use the sims for their combat finals. Underclassmen use the arena.

CrazyMinh wrote: Students use guns and swords and energy attacks, but wouldn't that be unsafe??? I mean, if you shoot someone in the wrong place, they're going to die. E.g. if you shot Aquerna in the head...bye bye squirrel girl.

Yup. But they know that, and they aren't interested in being lynched or prosecuted for murder, so they don't shoot Aquerna in the head unless they're in the sims.

CrazyMinh wrote: Another perplexing thing is the hidden cameras. Even if they're wearing masks, the families of the students involved (some of whom are in the dark about the 'mutant' bit of Whateley, or who had their children run away to go to Whateley) would certainly be able to recognise their children.

Maybe, but maybe not. Not everybody is good at recognizing people, especially when those people are in an extremely unexpected context. Another factor to consider is that the majority of baselines probably don't watch the combat finals. But if your family does watch them and does recognize you... so what? If they know you well enough to recognize you, then they very probably also know you're a mutant. If they don't know that Whateley is a school for mutants, they might make the leap and figure that out, or they might just assume you headed to Vegas during a break to make some money on the side in the mutant death matches. If you're still in touch with them, you might have some explaining to do, but that's life.

CrazyMinh wrote: In addition, the budget for running such a arena and rebuilding and repairing the thing would exceed the amount of money Whateley actually receives from school fees.

Whateley has access to a variety of resources -- tech, powers, magic, discounts, etc. -- that can drastically reduce the cost of doing many things that might otherwise be very expensive.

CrazyMinh wrote: I mean, the school outright insists it isn't a superhero school...and yet they have a exam for fighting other mutants. Even if it's to prepare the students for a unforgiving world of mutant hatred, it still doesn't mean that they'd be doing 4-8 Combat Finals over their school career. That's like saying 'Oh, this school doesn't offer a chemistry course' and having a 1st class chemistry lab on campus!!!

No. It's like saying "Oh, this school doesn't offer a robotics course" and having a first class electronics lab on campus. Electronics knowledge is used in robotics, but it can be used for many other things. Combat knowledge is used in superheroics, but it can be used for many other things.

Whateley isn't specifically trying to produce superheroes, but it also isn't specifically trying to produce mathematicians, copy editors, or historians. Whateley is simply trying to teach people the basic skills they'll need to succeed in life. When you have a one in a million ability to do superhuman things, you are a target, and being able to defend yourself from civilian, military, and superhuman threats is one of those basic skills. Not every single mutant will need it, but enough of them will that it's worth teaching them all.

And it's not just about combat. It's about self control during a crisis. What happens if you're in a car accident or house fire? How will you react? Will your control of your powers slip? Will you misfire? Will you go rager? Drick out? The combat finals are a way to stress test the students, exposing any problems they might need to work on -- both for their own safety and that of the people around them. Not to mention the reputation of mutants in general.

CrazyMinh wrote: I've been rereading the stories involving the combat finals from the OC, and I have some questions about the functioning of the physical combat finals. Students use guns and swords and energy attacks, but wouldn't that be unsafe??? I mean, if you shoot someone in the wrong place, they're going to die. E.g. if you shot Aquerna in the head...bye bye squirrel girl.

It's potentially unsafe, yes. That's why a multidisciplinary team decide who is matched up to whom in what scenario. So Aquerna was matched against Buster and not Mule. In some cases, such as Tennyo's first combat final, the student may only be matched up against robots, projections, and sublethal traps. Even then, some of the underclassmen are run through the VR-style simulators.

CrazyMinh wrote: Does that mean that they're only in the sims, and that they have their holograms projected into the arena??? Wouldn't that contradict the entire purpose of the combat finals: to have a live battle???

No. "live battle" is not at all the purpose, no matter how much it looks like bloodsports to the casual observer (such as Loophole).

The purpose is to demonstrate what skills and abilities the student has learned well enough to use under stress.

CrazyMinh wrote: Wouldn't that mean that students without sim permission would be excluded from the Combat Finals??

That doesn't logically follow at all from a story in which the combat finals were being conducted in Arena 99. Nor does it follow from the other stories covering the same time frame in which it's explicitly stated that some students may be under a medical waiver from taking part.

CrazyMinh wrote: Or is it a devise or gadget that simulates bullet wounds, the bullets themselves and other such things??? Basically, everything lethal is 'dry-fired'.

If there were such a device that would render all mutant powers harmless, don't you think that it would see much wider use elsewhere?

CrazyMinh wrote: Another perplexing thing is the hidden cameras. Even if they're wearing masks, the families of the students involved (some of whom are in the dark about the 'mutant' bit of Whateley, or who had their children run away to go to Whateley) would certainly be able to recognise their children. What about high-publicity students like Lapis??? When she does her Combat Final, will the press swarm Whateley after finding out she's there??? Even if they don't reveal the school's secret, getting a chance to swarm a celebrity will be a we dream for a illicit photographer. I mean, if a bunch of priests can get past security, whose to say that some press can't???

Because this is set in a universe set with physics similar to our own, there are limits to an electronic camera's performance that only begin with distance, visibility, lighting, focus, angle of vision, position. Yes, the imagery can be post-processed by an end user. But if that capability exists for the paparazzi, it also exists for the school to use on outward-bound transmissions.

In addition, a reasonably sane student whose safety or privacy depends on not being positively identified is going to take measures to make the job of identification more difficult. An effort is made to assign an advisor who is capable of assisting such students. There are classes provided on costuming and other passive countermeasures. Students also have the opportunity to build or buy equipment or magic that may actively interfere with image collection. That doesn't mean that students who are in some danger can afford to act stupidly when not in class.

This is also a universe in which even gods you don't worship or even believe in can be real. Thus, divine assistance can be provided to priests that J. Random Blogger with a press pass isn't likely to get.

CrazyMinh wrote: In addition, the budget for running such a arena and rebuilding and repairing the thing would exceed the amount of money Whateley actually receives from school fees.

Why would you start from a position that assumes that class fees are the only source of income for a private school?
They aren't.

CrazyMinh wrote: Finally, the combat finals are mandated by what educational law???

They aren't. They don't have to be. Whateley Academy is a private institution located on sovereign Tribal Lands within the United States of America.

But for the record, the State of New Hampshire requires that 2 credits physical education must be provided among the required program areas and credits. To graduate, every student must complete 1 credit of physical education with a passing grade. These are minimum requirements, and the State does not specify the exact curriculum by which they are obtained. Educational institutions may set higher standards in any program area so long as the the minimum requirements for graduation can still be met.

This is one of the reasons that the combat- and self-defense- oriented classes are listed under physical education.

CrazyMinh wrote: That's like saying 'Oh, this school doesn't offer a chemistry course' and having a 1st class chemistry lab on campus!!!

Your argument would make more sense if you had chosen a better metaphor. The school provides numerous classes in martial arts, survival, powers training, and weapons training and also has first-class facilities for them. All of these things have been explicitly referenced in stories across the entire timeline.

E. E. Nalley wrote: Ok, let's see...

Realistic training always has a hint of danger, the trick is controlling the danger.
Kinda
No
No
Find out in story, and do you not understand the concept of realistic training? If so, I suggest you google Simunition, MILES, Gunsite and Hogan's Alley.
What about them?
How do you swarm a place when you don't know its location?
We are
The Authors Must Write Interesting Stories Act of 700AD (Beowulf's Law)


Ok, some points. You proceed from a NUMBER of false assumptions which I will not spoon feed you the answers to. You are also taking this WAY too seriously. How does your Heisenberg Compensator work, Mr Roddenberry? Very well, thank you. Finally TONE DOWN the multiple question and exclamation marks, unless you intend to come across as a rude, demanding asshole. There are many ways to provide emphasis that are NOT INSULTING to read!!!

Kay?

I'm very sorry if I came across as rude. I did not mean to offend, and it appears that I may have unintentionally upset you. Look man, I'm not one to be a demanding asshole. I'm sorry if my post sounded that way, as I had just pulled a 12 hour shift at the EB games store I work at. I wasn't in my right mind, and no one on this site has to suffer for that. I work multiple jobs to pay for my uni fees, not limited to store clerk at EB games, doing odd jobs for people in my apartment complex and other such things. I'm not used to pulling 12 hour shifts cause several of my colleagues who usually cover that time period had come down with severe meningitis and had to take time off work. I got payed only slightly more for overtime that I usually get, and that really pissed me off. However, there is no excuse for acting like a plonker on a forum with people as nice as those on this one, and for that I apologise. If I had been operating on a full night's sleep, I would have been OK. Hell, the store wouldn't have been open if it weren't for the gaming tournament the store was having in the back room. That went till 4 in the morning, and the store I work at usually closes at 7. So, I worked from 4 in the afternoon till 4 in the morning, missed my morning lecture and most of the afternoon one, and had to catch up on a bunch of work I missed.

That doesn't change that I was sounding like a asshole, and for that I am sorry. Nalley, please accept my apologies.

Minh

No worries, Minh! We all have bad days and to be honest while intended to be a gentle cajole (Did ya mean to sound like that?) It probably came across harsher than I meant, so apologies all around.

Fair dinkum?

Fair Dinkum...now that’s a phrase I haven’t heard in a long time...I’m not just arbitrarily making a Star Wars reference there, that is actually something I haven’t really heard outside of popular culture depictions of Australians. You hear ‘mate’ a lot more than fair dinkum. But yeah I was having a bad day. Right now I’m pulling another late night to work on some coding for a project I was working on before the field Center closed down. If you’re interested it’s code for a autonomous crop duster drone that we hope to deploy to aid farmers in dryer and dustier areas of Oz. The drone is designed to be cheap enough that the average farmer can afford to use it, but fully capable of flying, dusting and landing by itself. The code may sound simple, but it is a real bitch to get working. I’m trying to improve the interface that will allow farmers to input a schedule and other information, but since the guy who was meant to give me the bandwidth specifications for the wireless system is currently at a party and will probably show up tomorrow hungover after spending the entire night drunk off his ass, I’m stuck trying to fix bugs.

Personally, the only place I remember having seen the word "dinkum" was in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Sir Lee wrote: Personally, the only place I remember having seen the word "dinkum" was in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

I think Heinlein used in a couple other stories too, but that is the only place I remember seeing it.

Minh, if you are reading the OC (Call the Thunder), some of questions will be answered (Mule vs Fey answers some). But they do keep medics, healers and mages with healing spells there for emergencies. The arenas use a combination of props, holograms, forcefields, and other "super" tech to simulate buildings, and other terrain features.

They should be glad they aren't in Illinois which requires 3 to 4 years of Phys Ed, only waived for early graduation.