Question Champion's replacement

It's said in one of the earlier stories that one of Whateley's avatar students is being quietly groomed to replace Champion, should the current Champion die. And we've heard nothing about that since (mostly because it isn't at all relevant to any of the main characters).

But I thought it might be fun to speculate on. Have we encountered this student? Are they part of the Cape Squad? Male? Female? Somewhere in between?


Maybe they're Hekate's Master? What would happen if Champion was a Mythos supervillain?

Given that it has to be an Avatar, we have a limited known pool of student Avatars.

Appaloosa
Arachne
Bloodwolf
Bluejay
Kodiak
Mongoose
Silverwing
Solange
Tidewater

Thunderbird isn't really an Avatar
Thunderbird

These are Freshmen/new students
Aquerna
Miasma
Miyet
Peccary
Pejuta
Suzan Chylds
Swoop
Timeless

These are foreign students
Mezzo
Hoarder
Zhong Lau


My bet is that it is one of the other students with unknown powers.

Makes you wonder. Does the replacement Champion have a spirit or 2, and how does that spirit feel about being potentially tossed for the champion force? Or being absorbed by it?

Next thought, given that HM is apparently part of a plot to kidnap spirits from avatars, would he be friendly with said future Champion. Being a friend would make stealing the Champion force easier.

annachie wrote: Next thought, given that HM is apparently part of a plot to kidnap spirits from avatars, would he be friendly with said future Champion. Being a friend would make stealing the Champion force easier.

Well crap, I never even considered the prospect that HM's spirit-theft plot could be connected with the alleged "Champion-in-training" who's supposed to be at Whateley, in spite of the fact that (iirc) stealing the Champion Force is expressly stated as a possible goal of that plot...

Yeesh, now my mind is reeling from the potential implications of this...

I would bet a fancy dinner on Timeless being the next Champion. Timeless is an Avatar, and only has the kitten spirit, that I suspect is actually his deceased baby sister's spirit. He does not want to bond with a spirit, so him being chosen for the next Champion would work, since it is not really a spirit that Champion possesses.

Why would they preferentially use a Whateley student to be the next Champion? (I recall it being mentioned that there's always a ready replacement at Whateley with a jet ready to take them to take up the mantle) I'm fairly sure that Champions tend to last a LOT longer than four years and thus older candidates should be freely available. Having a wider pool of candidates would also mean that they could select from a stricter set of criteria than if just the students currently at Whateley are involved, it removes a lot of unfair social pressure to go into an extremely high-risk position, etc.

Of course, it could also all be unreliable narrator and they don't actually intend to ever use a Whateley student as the next Champion.

The candidate pool might not be as broad as you think. My impression is that as the most famous superhero in the States (if not the world), being Champion is pretty much a full time job. The next Champion has to be a high level Avatar who is willing to drop their entire life at a moment's notice to assume the role. If you already have a job and a family, that's a pretty tall order. If you're fresh out of high school, less so. And apart from real world experience as a hero, Whateley is the best schooling a high level mutant can get.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that the Whateley student being groomed to be the next Champion has already graduated, but the story is still being passed around because none of the students realize it.

One reason is that Champion's replacement at Whateley gives them a ready person, that they know where he is and how to get him someplace quickly.

Valentine wrote: One reason is that Champion's replacement at Whateley gives them a ready person, that they know where he is and how to get him someplace quickly.

Which they could also achieve by keeping a candidate either at a hero's base or where they can quickly retrieve them as readily as possible, and preferably having multiple candidates ready to go at any one time. If the highest priority doesn't get there in time they could either have a lower priority take up the mantle permanently, or to just hold onto the Champion Force until the preferred replacement is ready to have it transferred.

Your list of candidates is a lot higher when it isn't "be the next Champion" and is instead "Can hold the Champion Force and can be trusted to transfer it as directed".

Personally, I'd absolutely refuse to be Champion or even host the Champion Force under all but the most extreme of circumstances. Being Champion would be absolutely horrible, and even holding the Champion Force as a temporary measure would mean breaking the alliance with my spirit companion or, even worse, killing them in some way.

And that's not even getting into the whole "party to the exploitation of a spirit born from mass slaughter and kept imprisoned since birth" issue.

I don't think any student is ever TOLD they are being groomed to be the replacement Champion; thing is, if the current Champion happens to have a long career, what is the kid expected to do? Put his whole life on hold? Graduate with a training geared for holding a Force, when he actually doesn't have one?

No, what the school would do is to keep an eye on promising high-level Avatars with a heroic streak. Possibly a FSA membership, although that wouldn't be an actual requirement. The school grapevine might have their theories about who is the current one, but it's never official.

We know from Elizabeth Carson's experience that the Champion Force apparently does not work well, long term, with women Avatars -- she held the Champion Force for a short period, but gave it up when a suitable male was found. She did apparently get a power-up from the deal, though.

Whoever the Champion potential replacements are, they are likely to be:
1. High-level Avatars
2. Male
3. Heroic bent
4. American (well, I guess they COULD go with a close-ally foreigner, like a Brit or a Canadian, in a pinch, but I count that as "highly unlikely" -- they would probably go with a female temp holder first)
5. (possibly) willing to relocate to Chicago. (Desirable, but probably not a strict requirement)

Sir Lee, look at the flip side of that; what if the kid has his own plans for his life and then suddenly "Here's the Champ Force, go up hold the tradition."

Okay, this is a weird idea, but what if the kid being groomed to be the next Champion isn't in the mainstream course load? Someone that the school is hiding somewhere and training in secret, away from the rest of the kids? There are more then enough hidden places on campus for the administration to hide a secret training ground or two.

Blue Moose wrote: Okay, this is a weird idea, but what if the kid being groomed to be the next Champion isn't in the mainstream course load? Someone that the school is hiding somewhere and training in secret, away from the rest of the kids? There are more then enough hidden places on campus for the administration to hide a secret training ground or two.

I don't think you want to isolate someone for four years and than give them ultimate power. Doesn't sound psychologically "safe".

Also, I don't think you want to take someone who is likely already pretty powerful, treat him for four years as the Heir Apparent for a major role, and then tell him "sorry, kid, you missed your window of opportunity. Too bad for the last four years, you might have been making friends or dating or having fun like everybody else instead of training that turned out to be pointless, since you won't get that extra power." Can you spell "resentment"?

Cryptic has a good point on dumping this responsibility on the head of a teenager all of a sudden. But there are possible reasonable middle grounds. That would be to take the most promising student of the Senior class -- or, in a pinch, Junior, if there are no suitable Seniors -- and talk to him about the possibility and ask if he would be willing to take up the mantle.

That would have several good points:

- The school would have observed the student for three years already, which would give them a pretty good guess if he was psychologically suitable to the role;
- It would shrink the window when the student would see himself as "heir presumptive" to about one year, so he wouldn't be as psychologically invested in it if the current Champion failed to kick the bucket;
- It would hit the student at such a time as he was already thinking about his post-Whateley life, so it wouldn't be the "only future" he sees ahead -- if it fails, well, he could always go to college as he was already planning before.

Does the person at Whateley, have to be a student? It seems a more natural fix would be a faculty member or trustee. They would have been vetted and could be ready to take on the mantle as needed. Meanwhile they teach Avatars or other classes appropriate to their skill sets. I imagine it is like a high draft pick QB serving as a backup until his predecessor retires or is injured. It is not given to someone in high school but to another professional.

It doesn't HAVE to be a student, but...
Well, let's look at the list of requirements:
- High-level avatar;
- Civic-minded;
- Willing to take up the responsibility;
- Not tied-up in other career commitments
- Fairly healthy

Thing is, why such a person would spend an unknowable number of years essentially bench-warming at Whateley, when he could be "out there" superheroing?

Thing is, what would such a person

You all are missing the real candidates for the champion force: avatar zombies.

Having already lived, they have less life investment. Having less intelligence, they are more easily directed. Having less emotion, they are free to make logical choices involving brain munching. Easy to fit a spirit into a fresh corpse, so no need for a fancy avatar rating.

So clearly, Champion is a zombie, right?

Nagrij wrote: You all are missing the real candidates for the champion force: avatar zombies.

Having already lived, they have less life investment. Having less intelligence, they are more easily directed. Having less emotion, they are free to make logical choices involving brain munching. Easy to fit a spirit into a fresh corpse, so no need for a fancy avatar rating.

So clearly, Champion is a zombie, right?

Ignore Nagrij, he clearly lost half of his brain to a zombie himself.

NeoMagus wrote:

Nagrij wrote: You all are missing the real candidates for the champion force: avatar zombies.

Having already lived, they have less life investment. Having less intelligence, they are more easily directed. Having less emotion, they are free to make logical choices involving brain munching. Easy to fit a spirit into a fresh corpse, so no need for a fancy avatar rating.

So clearly, Champion is a zombie, right?

Ignore Nagrij, he clearly lost half of his brain to a zombie himself.

Okay. So you're saying he's a half-brained nitwit? Or a half-wit?

I think there is a bit of misunderstanding going on here.

Welcome to Poe wrote: "Ever since then, it's been understood that Whateley Academy will always be training at least one Avatar at all times- the best, the smartest, the strongest, the bravest Avatar enrolled- who is ready at all times to accept the Champion Force, in case the worst happens. We even have a jet on call at Berlin Airport, just in case."

There is a student or more than one at Whateley that is being trained to take over as Champion. Once he (or she) graduates, there is another student chosen. They may stay in contact with the previous student if there isn't a suitable candidate, but he isn't kept waiting to get on with his life.

It's entirely possible that, 2006-7, Mongoose is prepared to take over as Champion, and in 2007-9 it will be Bluejay, then Aquerna for 2009-10, then someone not at the school yet...

Valentine wrote: I think there is a bit of misunderstanding going on here.

It's entirely possible that, 2006-7, Mongoose is prepared to take over as Champion, and in 2007-9 it will be Bluejay, then Aquerna for 2009-10, then someone not at the school yet...

Aquerna as Champion? With her bubbly, perky personality and Wondercute mindset, that's a very entertaining thought.

Food for fan-fic! Maybe a dream someone has?

Tink is now going to have a burnout and become an Avatar.
She'd be a great Champion. The kids would love her.

elrodw wrote:

Valentine wrote: I think there is a bit of misunderstanding going on here.

It's entirely possible that, 2006-7, Mongoose is prepared to take over as Champion, and in 2007-9 it will be Bluejay, then Aquerna for 2009-10, then someone not at the school yet...

Aquerna as Champion? With her bubbly, perky personality and Wondercute mindset, that's a very entertaining thought.

Food for fan-fic! Maybe a dream someone has?

Given a choice between Aquerna, Peccary, and Miasma? Which would you choose?

Aquerna is unlikely, because it's canon that the Champion Force does not seem "like" female hosts very much -- Mrs. Carson held it when one of the Champions died, but instead of becoming the new Champion she surrendered it to the next guy in line.

But the fun that could be had with Aquerna! Such a fan-fic!

I think I'd rather have Ribbon do it. She'll have a few years to get there. Either that or Jehrico.

Give it to her for half a year before she hands it over. Enough tme to have fun without having it cause lots of trouble.

elrodw wrote: But the fun that could be had with Aquerna! Such a fan-fic!

Imagine if she could channel even a fraction of the Champion Force to her squirrel friends, they could duplicate more stuff from Squirrel Girl from Marvel. Deathlist attacking, just power up her squirrel and have them chew up his cybernetic parts and wiring; see how easily the Necromancer can concentrate to cast spells when he has dozens of superpowered squirrels crawling all over him. Now who is the closet counterpart to Thanos in Whateley, have her and her squirrels take him down.

Jesus that would be hilarious. And horrifying.

Unless the Champion force comes with a huge dose of bravado, Aquerna is a bit too meek to host the Champion force.

I'm rereading Christmas Elves at the moment and Billie, making a point about life a Whateley, mentions "we know the secret identity of the next Champion". So apparently, it's fairly well-known on campus who is "Champion-in-training". Billie is the least observant of the Kimbas. If she knows who is training to be Champion, it must be in the brochures. (Okay, maybe not quite that well advertised.)

Or Ayla told her.

jmhyp wrote: Unless the Champion force comes with a huge dose of bravado, Aquerna is a bit too meek to host the Champion force.

Aquerna seems to have two different operational modes. The first and by far the most common is shy and scared Aquerna. While she has time to think and plan, she is always afraid and sure she will fail.

The second mode is when she is reacting to an attack, then (while she is still scared, who wouldn't be) she does what needs to be done. She is very competent in her fight against Buster, Buster's friends, at Ayla's party, and against half of the GOBs. Plus, except for Ayla's party, she came up with and executed plans with almost no warning as to what she was up against.

No I don't think Aquerna would be a good Champion, but she would be better than Miasma or Peccary or Bloodwolf. Thunderbird would be good, be he isn't really an Avatar. Appaloosa, or Bluejay might make good Champions, but most likely it is one of the students that we don't know what their power is.

Valentine wrote:

jmhyp wrote: Unless the Champion force comes with a huge dose of bravado, Aquerna is a bit too meek to host the Champion force.

Aquerna seems to have two different operational modes. The first and by far the most common is shy and scared Aquerna. While she has time to think and plan, she is always afraid and sure she will fail.

The second mode is when she is reacting to an attack, then (while she is still scared, who wouldn't be) she does what needs to be done. She is very competent in her fight against Buster, Buster's friends, at Ayla's party, and against half of the GOBs. Plus, except for Ayla's party, she came up with and executed plans with almost no warning as to what she was up against.

No I don't think Aquerna would be a good Champion, but she would be better than Miasma or Peccary or Bloodwolf. Thunderbird would be good, be he isn't really an Avatar. Appaloosa, or Bluejay might make good Champions, but most likely it is one of the students that we don't know what their power is.

Why do you think "Kitty-Boy" is an avatar?
The replacement Champion - with his cute kitty-ears and mountain-lion spirit appearing female when he manifests that form!