Question You're charging us??

Are peple charged for mids?

You mean, do mutants have to pony up the dough to get an ID they are pressured to carry? Interesting question.

In many other places, I expect the answer would be "don't be ridiculous, if the law compels you to have this ID, of course it is free"... but the U.S. is a bit unusual in this aspect -- since there is no legally-mandated ID system in place, there's also for the most part no laws ensuring that IDs be made available at no cost. Consider that in many states the only widely available state-issued photo ID is a driver's license -- which is not free, demands some investment in the form of driving lessons and fees, is unavailable for a portion of the population (many kinds of disabled people, for instance) and can be revoked. This is becoming a problem, because situations where a photo ID is demanded are growing more numerous. There are other forms of photo ID other than driver's license, true -- but they are either not available to the general public (government/military IDs) or non-free (passports).

Thing is, technically the MID is only mandatory if the mutant wants to board a commercial flight. That's the loophole that would protect issuers from being compelled to supply MIDs at no charge -- a destitute mutant could, technically, live without a MID as long as they never boarded a plane, in the same way that you can live without a driver's license if you don't drive a car. The fact that, in practice, there are all sorts of situations where you are compelled to produce that ID that you are not technically compelled to have is not considered relevant. So, the MCO (and other MID issuers, if any) is free to charge a fee for the MIDs.

However... the main issuer, the MCO, has a vested interest in ensuring that every single mutant is entered into the MID database. So, even though the MCO is probably not legally obligated to supply MIDs free of charge, I expect that they end up doing so as a matter of expediency. They also strongly push the (incorrect) meme that mutants have to carry their MID at all times, and making it hard for mutants to get their MIDs would play against the meme.

"The fee is normally $5,214.34, but if you subscribe to our periodical, MCO Monthly, you can get a $5,200 discount and keep up to date on the latest mutant news to boot! We'll just need your address..." It's also a lever they can use to reward or penalize the mutant's level of compliance. Plus, unwary mutants might make the mistake of paying with a credit card instead of cash, or marked bills from when they rolled that bank last week. Or perfectly legitimate bills that the MCO agent swaps out for marked bills so as to create an excuse. There's also the good old, "Oh, you can't pay? Well, I guess we can't let you leave!" Or they talk you into financing it...

Sir Lee wrote: In many other places, I expect the answer would be "don't be ridiculous, if the law compels you to have this ID, of course it is free"... but the U.S. is a bit unusual in this aspect -- since there is no legally-mandated ID system in place, there's also for the most part no laws ensuring that IDs be made available at no cost. Consider that in many states the only widely available state-issued photo ID is a driver's license -- which is not free, demands some investment in the form of driving lessons and fees, is unavailable for a portion of the population (many kinds of disabled people, for instance) and can be revoked. This is becoming a problem, because situations where a photo ID is demanded are growing more numerous. There are other forms of photo ID other than driver's license, true -- but they are either not available to the general public (government/military IDs) or non-free (passports).

Actually, I think all or most of our states are offering non-driver photo IDs nowadays. If nothing else, the ten random states I just checked all offer one, and the prices were all reasonable ($12-$28, good for several years before needing to be renewed, and usually with provisions for the elderly and disabled to have the fee reduced or waived).

It seems that rather than cost, the real problem is getting the supporting documents: proof of citizenship, proof of identity, and proof of residence. These are non-issues if you have a home and job, even if you're very poor. Birth certificates and social security cards are things everybody just has; no big deal. And if you have a job, pay for a home or utilities, or are a student, you almost certainly have adequate proof of residence in the form of bills, bank statements, or pay stubs. The problems arise when you don't have a home and job. If you're living on the street as a beggar, you will probably struggle to prove residence. You may also lack a birth certificate and social security card, which means even more hoops to jump through. Being a bum is hard work. Much like not being a bum.

In states where voter ID laws have been allowed to stand, there is frequently find a condition of the courts allowing the law to stand will have state ID that has the same validity as a drivers' license, and in those cases, it's free to anyone who requests one. (Of course, there's an investment of time to get valid proof of identity - usually a birth certificate, and then time in a DMV office - which is usually not inconsiderable.)

So there IS precedent for having valid IDs issued for free. Sometimes.

elrodw wrote: In states where voter ID laws have been allowed to stand, there is frequently find a condition of the courts allowing the law to stand will have state ID that has the same validity as a drivers' license, and in those cases, it's free to anyone who requests one. (Of course, there's an investment of time to get valid proof of identity - usually a birth certificate, and then time in a DMV office - which is usually not inconsiderable.)

So there IS precedent for having valid IDs issued for free. Sometimes.

But in order to register to vote you have some sort of ID and proof of where you live.

I know politics is usually frowned upon here, but my super Blue state has had voter ID laws for literally decades. I grew up with it, thought it was 100% normal, so I've always found the whole "controversy" over voter ID baffling...

You need ID for everything else...

Back to the WU, I just assumed the MID cost was included in the price for testing. Someone always gets paid for it, be it direct, be it through tuition, or maybe just taxes (and a little more in depth info for the MCO).

Depends on the mindset... I mean, you wouldn't charge an animal for tagging it...

Katssun wrote: I know politics is usually frowned upon here, but my super Blue state has had voter ID laws for literally decades. I grew up with it, thought it was 100% normal, so I've always found the whole "controversy" over voter ID baffling...

You need ID for everything else...

I think it’s the difference between an actual real attempt to stop voter fraud (i.e. any reasonable ID is fine), and an attempt to remove your opponents voters from the roll when the count starts getting tight (close call red states where jerrymandering wasn’t quite getting the results anymore, so super tough voter ID laws mysteriously become law weeks before the next election which of course cause lots of problems for poor, inner city people who don’t have cars so don’t have drivers licenses or passports and no other form of ID is being accepted so suddenly find out they need to somehow get one in a few weeks or they can’t vote).

Now, which party do you think just had the most voters disenfranchised in that dirty tactic do you think?

Voter ID was something I brought up ONLY to show that governments can sometimes be sensible, and that there is precedent for issuing IDs free of charge (except for DMV lines).

Going to voter ID and fraud is getting into politics, which is ganz verboten! Continuing that line of conversation really should stop.

What about the MCO in other countries??? Here in Oz, it's pretty much the same as the US when it comes to obtaining driver's licenses (passport registration and renewal is cheaper though: one of my friends who lives over there sent me a photo of the receipt for his passport renewal: it was $30 US for the card. In Australian dollars, that's $45 right now.

In Australia, it costs $15 or less to get your passport renewed, assuming that you go to Australia Post. In US dollars, that's $11.25. See the difference?

I'm not sure about the UK, but I'd assume it's the same as Europe when it comes to passports. I know that Europe has changed the passport system since the last I read up on it, so my info on how passports work there is OOD. Asia I'm clueless about, same with Russia and South America.

Getting back to MID's, I'd say that the cost of the ID would be simular to the price of a passport in the corresponding country. Really, a MID is just a passport with oversized aspirations. Unless the MCO set up overpriced and useless systems all over the world to make sure that a mutant is consistently carrying a MID (scanners, checkpoints, patrols, etc), there is no way they can do anything to ensure mutants are carrying ID's at all times. The only place where all of these countermeasures can be put in place are high-security areas where the public will be allowed to access. Which I guess is why they set up such systems in Airports, which are definitely a high-risk, easily-secured location.

In all actuality, the MCO is basically the TSA. Like the TSA, they exist to provide security theatre. Unlike the TSA however, they actually manage to 'prevent' mutant threats (in the same way that a farmer 'prevents' animals from preying on his flock by using a very large gun), which grants them a future in the eyes of the government. The same goes for the public, who have a generally good outlook on the MCO. It's really only mutants, their supporters, the MCO's detractors and the factions within the MCO trying to change the rampant misconduct that have a negative outlook on the organisation. Overall however, the MCO stations at airports do very little to assist, just like the TSA, who can only protect against the LAST successful terror attempt, and who have never actually STOPPED a terror threat. And who also stole my mum's jewellery while she was vacationing in the US.They searched her luggage, and 'confiscated' her earrings, as they were a 'security threat'. I mean, I'd understand that if they were made of plastic explosive, or even if they were particular sharp, but they were just souvenir turtle ones I bought here ten years ago when me and my family were in Hawaii!!! They didn't even have sharp edges, let alone a cutting edge!!! She even had a metal fork in the front pocket!!! They left it there!!!

Hm. Issuance costs of IDs... general principle here in Brazil is "if it's compulsory, it has to be free -- but if it's optional, then there are fees, and they might be a bit expensive" So:

- Passports are sorta expensive (about 70 USD)... but then, other IDs for the most part are free:
- Driver licenses are not cheap either -- first issuance is more expensive than a passport, PLUS you have to take a minimum number of driving classes in certified schools, which adds up to quite a hefty price tag. Renewals are about half the first issuance fees.
- Birth certificate: those are not issued by the state, but by a public notary with a concession, called a "cartório" (an aberration originally created to give useless Portuguese noblemen a sinecure... but I digress), so naturally there are fees involved... but there are also laws waiving costs for poor people.
- Official state-issued ID card (RG, from "Registro Geral", general registry): free on first issuance (but if you lose it and need a new one, there's a reissuance fee, around US$ 15)
- Voter ID (yes, it's a separate document): free
- SUS (unified health system) ID card: free (you can also print out your own from the website, if you want)
- CPF (Taxpayer ID number): free (although the physical card itself is so unimportant that there's no actual procedure to reissue one if lost - you can print your out from the website if you wish, but the number is the only important part), most people opt to have the number added to their state IDs and/or driver licenses.

Yeah, it's a bit of a mess. Part of the problem is that the RG cards are issued by the states, not the federal government... so there there is number duplication (which is worked around by adding the two-letter state abbreviation to the number) and, more seriously, there are people with multiple RGs issued in several states. So the federal tax people created their own system, the CPF... and the federal health & social security people created their own system, since the people most in need of health services are too poor to pay taxes, and therefore may not even have a CPF... there's sorta perennial talk of reforming the RG system to address its shortcomings (including the fact that the ID card is too fucking big), and eventually to fold back the other systems into it, but it never seems to reach the deploying stage.

Going back to MIDs... whether a Brazilian MID would be free or if there would be fees involved depends essentially on how compulsory they are:
- If not compulsory in Brazil, being required only for international travel due to other countries requiring it... then they might be issued by the MCO and charged an issuance fee.
- If legally required for some things in Brazil, mostly things seen as luxuries such as air travel, then an issuance fee might still be required... but the government would take over issuance.
- If compulsory for all mutants, then they would be government-issued AND likely free, or at least inexpensive with fees waived for poorer people.

Given the MCO's unusual status as an international, non-government organization that nonetheless has official powers in many if not most localities, I would expect that there is a bewildering maze of local regulations covering them wherever you go... many of which are fighting their way through the courts at any given point.

So any specific scenario you need for a specific story could be made to fit without too much difficulty.