Question Subject matter

Folks I love the site and for most part I love most of the stories. There are some seriously talented authors on here. Just so I am being equally in my criticism here some of my faovrite authors here or on any sites are Morpheus, Joe Gunnerson and Elrod. Each of them I have told how I truly appeciate their writiing abilities. But and I mean but, of all the authors here that I have read their material Mr. Gunnerson is the only one who has had a character tell the school’s ruling Majesty Mrs. Carson where she can go at times and then he only does it with our most love Range Boss and now our sweet and loveable little artificer. I dont know if any of our esteem authors spend much time around teenagers but I do and have as a coach of many teenagers. Trust me, they dont forgive that easy when they feel they have been done wrong. It is really good we dont live in this world with how unforgiving some of our youth are today. I have just finished reading the story with Cameron/Outlook and I truly hope Camo has the gumption to go the other way with his character and once everythign has come out allows Cameron to really hit back and put some serious pain on some of the most needed and I am not talking about the students but the administration and it starts at the top. But I doubt I get my wish as at the end of this story Cameron turns himself in. I am not anarchist, so far from it, but I do believe that everyone is held accountable and no author has held the Aministration, Staff, Teachers and Instructors(especially my 2 favorites, our little Martial Arts self acclaimed Master and our Head of the Simms and favorite Marine) accoutable at all. Just my opinion on what I have read and I will admit I have not read every story. Please forgive the rant but there just arent that many teenagers that are as forgiving as the main characters seem to be here at Whateley

SDom111

Your comment is worth reading and considering, because it's been a long time since we (at least me) were teenagers.
As to the whole 'not forgive easily' thing, I've been trying to get that in Kayda - which some think I overdo it a bit, but I model a lot of my characters' behaviors on that of my teenage daughter and all the high-school students we work with in their theatrical productions. It's hard, as teenage concern, angsts, likes, and vernacular changes with lightning-like rapidity!

Elrod, you have a great talent and I wish I had just a tenth to write, but the Lord blessed me with other talents. You have an ability to have your reader actually feel what yoru characters feel and see what they see. That is a tallent. I have coached sport teams for more than 25 yrs now and it might be how competitive athletes are but I have to constantly remind them not everything is personal. I love most of the stories and appreciate each author putting their soul into their works. But you must admit especially among the core writers here that you have allowed the Administration, Staff and Instructors to do things that in real life would have gotten their asses handed to them and I am talking the students would have tried to beat the living shit out of them.. I know I would have as a teen and I consider myself very much into following the law but I believe in doing whats right adn sometimes those adults are just wrong.. Please dont take this the wrong way as I know I cant put on paper anywhere near the quality of what any of you do.

Please keep writing all of you and expressing the story your way..

SDom111

SDom111 wrote: But you must admit especially among the core writers here that you have allowed the Administration, Staff and Instructors to do things that in real life would have gotten their asses handed to them and I am talking the students would have tried to beat the living shit out of them..

In real life, the administration, staff, and instructors are not some of the most experienced and competent superhumans on the planet. Also, in real life the students don't generally consider remaining at that particular school to be a critical part of maintaining their safety and freedom.

Another factor is that Whateley gives students a lot of freedom. Since they're (usually) not having to deal with their parents' rules anymore, their capacity for enduring abuse is a bit higher than it would otherwise be. There are also a lot of opportunities (sanctioned or otherwise) to work out aggression on other students, which is much lower-risk than taking it out on the superhuman teachers and spec-ops security folks.

It might help to remember that teens, like children and adults, aren't restricted to one singular "teen" personality and one set of beliefs. In situations where one might fall back onto violence, others might choose other methods of coping with how they feel wronged. High school athletics tends to select for different personalities than engineering college prep, theater, JROTC, etc., so that may not match your own experiences, but it doesn't need to.

In the Whateley Academy setting, one must also take into account that the 8th grade captain of the football team is not automatically Big Man On Campus when he arrives at Whateley as a freshman. As a mutant, he has a target on his back if he steps too far out of line. Sure, he might get to "open a can of whoop-ass" once on a teacher. Once. Then, if he's lucky, he just goes to prison. If he's not lucky, he might wish he could have gone to prison.

However, most of the more questionable adult decisions would never happen in real life because the reasons for them or their implementation cannot exist. I think that most of the authors are conscious of that.

Kids resolving problems between themselves is very evident. Yes, with the freedoms the kids have and to a point have to have this is the way the stories need to told and written. Three our of Four kids can handle these problems without any adult interferrnce in real life if not a greater percentage. The problem I am bringing up and almost to an aurthor each of you are guilty of doing it. You have the adults add to these problems. Example an I am just using Elrod’s character of Kayda as she is one of the main characters throught the universe. Look at how Hartford added to Kayda’s first days of introduction to Whateley by messing with her schedule so much and don’t give me she didnt have the correct transcript as Elrod tood that excuse out in the beginning.. No she messed with Kayda because who her councilor is and Hartford has a large corn cob up her rear with Charlie Lodgeman. That is just one example. With as smart as you make some of these kids, some are some of the most powerful pyschics on the planet and not all of the staff especially Hartford can’t stock people reading her mind. You dont think one of those kids would not find out how Hartford was screwing with Kayda, right. JG allows Caitlyn not only argue with Carson but at times tell her to backoff. Now yes Carson knows she isnt dealing with a true teenager and treats her more like an adult as she should. The only other main character who has truly argured with Carson is Loophole. I am just saying that the powers you give yoru characters would create situations where when the adults did input their own personal issues into the scenario would present problems between the students and the adults.
Thank you for at least giving me feedback and it really shows how much each of the aurthors not only enjoy writing but truly care about what we as readers are reading. I am only one person and no one else seems to be bothered by this so I appreciate the responses

Thank you to each aurthor for your hard work and please keep sharing yoru talents

SDom

Other than the Security Forces, most of the teachers dont have experience or qualifications as teachers. Here are some examples, Mr. Donner in the shop had no teachign experience at all. Yes he is an experience Mechanic but that doesnt make him a qualified teacher, The Fabulous Imp again has no teaching experience at all. Is there anyone that can doubt her expertise on art history, no but again this does not make her a qualified teacher. There are many other examples of this lack of creditials and qualifications that include taking pyschology courses and other courses declared by every University that offer teaching creditials demand are neccessary to gradulate their course studies. Carson hires who you she thinks can handle the powers that the school has to deal with. That doesnt mean they have the qualifications to deal with the issues, concerns and just teenage problems that their students face each day. Our favorite gun-ho Marine Simm boss is another prime example. How many of you would want a Marine DI with no teaching qualifications teach your kids. It has been proven most teenages do not respond well to hard core military training. Each of these people are experts or can be easily qualified as so in their fields but that doesnt mean they are qualified to teach kids of any age.

I think SDomm111 makes some very good points, but I've always felt that the very visible and very real threat of death, burnouts, or both has a significant impact on a lot of the students. The Memorial Garden is a permanent reminder to everyone who survived their first semester in a very literal sense that it could have been them too. It changes the stakes for everyone involved, teens and staff alike.

The Academy does things weird. There's the entire cottage setup, meant to mellow out or build up the worst outliers (bullies and wannabe heroes, bigots and isolationists), or provide a safe space for others who need time to figure themselves out. There's the emphasis on safety, responsibility, and surviving or thriving in a very hostile world outside the school. Active recruitment efforts from the military, criminal and justice organizations, and so on. Learning how to lay low so a student can attend college, even though the material in their high school classes may have exceeded post-doctorate levels.

That said, Imp did actually get her actual teaching license over the summer. Should it come as a surprise that she's one of the most visible teachers to those students with both teenage and mutant problems? Ms. Hartford acts much the same, but from more of a tough-love approach (and some of my favorite teachers in high school were the same way. Forget your homework? Detention.).

If we are willing to believe that teenagers can learn things they weren't born knowing, can we not try to believe that in the years that many of the teachers have been working at Whateley, they too are capable of learning?

IRL, there are programs for front-loading STEM professionals into teaching positions with the understanding that they'll pursue any remaining requirements for teaching certification. Continuing Education is also a real expectation of real-life teachers, first responders, and medical professionals.

Null you are correct, about the fact that teachers are always having to take ongoing educational classes as well as other professions. But unlike IRL, it has been well established that more than just a few of the Adults that work at Whateley have their own agenda. Prime example of this is Asst. Headmistress Hardass Hartford. Carson knows she is a very high ranking member of the Syndicate, our infamous self acclaimed Master of all Martial Arts Ito is also a member of the Syndicate. You have guards and security forces selling information to this group or that group. You have teachers and instructors doing their own things such as a certain relegious zealot, Barney and Imp going at each other and students getting caught up in their fued. It is believed that all of the teachers and staff loyalties are to Whateley first.. I dont think we can say that with a whole lot of comfidence can we. Now I have badmouthed Ito a number of times. I think for most part he does care for the school and most of the students but it has been made clear he is very loyal to the Syndicate as well. Come on Aurthors, I challenge you to think that none of these items which you all have written in yoru stories would never come out cause friction between students and staff, espcially If a student finds out that a teacher or staff member personally caused some of their hardships forced upon them for whatever reason even if the teacher had the best of intentions. We are talking about over powered teenagers,filled with a raging amount of hormones would never cause a student to finally say enough and stand toe to toe with one of the adults.

SDom

SDom111 wrote: Null you are correct, about the fact that teachers are always having to take ongoing educational classes as well as other professions. But unlike IRL, it has been well established that more than just a few of the Adults that work at Whateley have their own agenda. Prime example of this is Asst. Headmistress Hardass Hartford. Carson knows she is a very high ranking member of the Syndicate, our infamous self acclaimed Master of all Martial Arts Ito is also a member of the Syndicate.

The Syndicate members are either on assignment from the Syndicate to protect the organization's investment in the Whateley project, or they are pursuing their jobs on their own cognizance while maintaining their loyalties and obligations to the Syndicate. The Syndicate doesn't reward slackers very well, so you can bet those staff members are staying ahead of whatever they need to be doing in those jobs. Otherwise, they can expect to be retired.

I don't think Ito is part of the Syndicate per se. He's part of the Cabal (forgot the official name), which is a different thing though there is some overlap. The Syndicate is pretty much on it for the money; the Cabal has a number of concerns, chief among them the survival of mankind and preventing mutant pogroms, and is willing to use illegal means to advance that agenda.
Also, regarding qualifications: Carson herself has an English degree and would understand very well the need for appropriate qualifications. It's true that not all teachers start with high-school-appropriate teaching qualifications (although a number of them start with Ph.Ds, which qualify one to teach at the college level but not at the high school level), she would push for them to get those certifications ASAP.

Null, Sir Lee you make my point for me. Whether Ito is a memberof the Syndicate or a group that is controlled by the Syndicate there are many at Whateley that are members and high ranking members of groups outside of Whateley Academy and their first loyalties are to these groups and not to Whateley. Ito may stand for the betterment of Mutants but his loyalties to Cabal(Syndicate) will come first as will Hartford’s first priority as well. They will put certain students thru more situations that are not in the best interests of the student or Whateley academy but that of the Syndicate for the sole pupose of seeing if they are worthy of recruitment to said group. You dotn think that certain students if they found out they wouldn’t want retribution for this. An Ito has been repeatedly said he is not a mutant that he is baseline by several aurthors. I have never believed that little white lie. Aurthors I appreciate this discussion. You will write what you will write an again I will thank you ahead of time for each story you give us. If any of this in the very minimum makes you think about this other side of the coin in your furture writing then I have doen what I have set out to do. Thank you again

SDom

I'd like to make a point here, as a Gen2 author.
Would you care to point out someinstances of the staff using the students as you describe for Kayda? Because off-and, I cant think of any.

Though we don't get to see the POVs of all the teachers and staff, we do get to see a number of them, and they're definitely putting their students first. Imp might be the most obvious at this point, but she's far from the only one.

- Elyzia Grimes has been shown to be willing to do anything to defend her charges, and has even openly accepted her death will be protecting them (as currently prophesied...subject to change).

- Prison Bitch has clearly shown to put the interests of the students first from his position, financially, in terms of privacy, reducing their risk of criminal behavior while exploring their specialties, all while maintaining the illusion that he's only in it for himself. That gives the students the freedom to grow and explore their boundaries, while keeping them operating safely in known spaces.

- Ms. Hartford, while being a part of the Cabal, has repeatedly interjected in the activities of certain students. She recognizes the same issues that Mrs. Carson had with her, and makes sure that the students don't end up in, or are at the very least prepared for the circumstances that Amelia found herself in right before Carson helped her (i.e. prison).

- The entire food service staff. A number of students have special dietary needs. Whateley is considered one of the most challenging places to work in the culinary world, the stuff of legend. The administration has no problem finding the best to staff their kitchens.

- Powers Theory department: They come off to students as annoying, prodding, redundant (they already got their MID!), and impersonal like they're looking at a gadget instead of a person. All from the students' perspectives. But they are looking at them from a clinical standard way, to ensure they get an accurate measure of a student's abilities. As pointed out, these students are often more of a danger to themselves than anyone. The cold impersonal approach that gets the full details allows the entire staff to better ensure the safety of all their charges.

- Multiple teachers fought over what to do with Kerry, Silver, and Eldritch and how the three would interact. They didn't come to any mystical conclusions, but what the Academy did do was set up a framework (legal, extra-legal, and business) so that the three wouldn't get exploited with their combined capabilities. Kerry's story and how the school staff saved her is pretty well laid out, and they're working on reducing her meekness for her own best interests, while letting her figure out what she needs to figure out.

SDom111, you assume that whatever other roles teachers/staff have outside Whateley will always come first. That's a gross generalization. While I have no doubt that it would be true for a portion of the teachers/staff, we have no evidence at all to make such a generalization. Even for the people we do know have non-Whateley roles, it's doubtful that the precedence is as you postulate.

SDom111 wrote: Ito may stand for the betterment of Mutants but his loyalties to Cabal(Syndicate) will come first as will Hartford’s first priority as well.

He is not dedicated to the betterment of mutants, but to the development of his own School of martial arts. He's been vocal about that to his peers and to students: his classes are his test platform. He and Amanda Tolman guarantee on the first day of BMA that every student in their classes will be injured. (How many people have noticed how close Laird Hall is to Doyle Medical?) They get a world-class intro to powered self-defense, but every last one of them shown considers him an evil old man and a sadist to boot.

In some regards, his BMA class is similar to joining a top fencing fraternity in the late 19th/early 20th c. Most complainers tend to be seen as poor sports.


Hartford's job is to be the Headmistress' gatekeeper as well as the Ship's Executive Officer to Carson's CO, i.e., the Enforcer, NOT to be liked. Students choosing to butt heads with her learn life lessons in dealing with an obstructionist bureaucracy.

IRL, some of the things we see her handling never should get to her inbox without being resolved already. That shows that the Administration is understaffed. We've been told that 2006-7 and 2007-8 are outliers in several respects, so some of her testiness may be justifiable.

In Canon, we've seen Zenith and Mrs. Potter torpedo her plans for Tennyo. In some of the Micro-Scenes and WhatIF stories, Hartford has had to roll with a few punches herself.

SDom111 wrote: They will put certain students thru more situations that are not in the best interests of the student or Whateley academy but that of the Syndicate for the sole pupose of seeing if they are worthy of recruitment to said group.

We've seen that once, when she brokered what should have been a "milk run" for the Masterminds. She ended up chewing out The Necromancer over what happened at the museum.

SDom111 wrote: You dotn think that certain students if they found out they wouldn’t want retribution for this. An Ito has been repeatedly said he is not a mutant that he is baseline by several aurthors. I have never believed that little white lie.

Ito is an example of how maturity, training, and experience can tip a playing field in the superior strategist's favor. He also has learned some control of his chi. Except for Counterpoint, just about any person able to give him a good fight is more likely to respect him than to look for petty retribution.

In one of the Micro-Scenes, Ito does get an up-close-and-personal demonstration of why a person needs to be very careful what they say to, or around, sorcerors.

Folks I truly appreciate the feedback each of the aurthors have given. I truly believe I have achieved what I started out to achieve. That is to point out a point of view that has at best been rarely written into the stories. This discussion I hope makes each of the aurthors give this point of view at least thought. I know the not only must the situation fit into the story but not mess up the flow of the story. To be honest I dont expect to see this point of view ever brought out(and that is ok).

Null you an I agree and disagree about Ito. His arrogance is only rivaled by his mastery of Martial Arts. You are ABSOLUTELY right about how Training the MInd, Body and Soul for the preparation of combat will be the deciding factor 99% of the time. That is why the American Military is feared. We do not have the numbers like China or Russia..So our training has to be better. Just as Ito’s traning and skill is. Here is the point I willl make about Ito. Each time a class gathers for the first time Ito calls for a raise of hands who thinks they can beat him using their powers again him as a baseline human. Now it is known knowledge that he has read each preliminary report about each students known power set. More than a few raise their hands each time. And the usual Bricks always raise their hands but as most the writers say that other students do as well. It is a given a brick will always think they can beat someone inferior so those that tend to have bully personalities immediately rasie their hands. Now Ito always picks a brick and there are 2 reasons for this. First and foremost Ito doesnt want to hurt any student and he can cut loose and not worry about hurting the student. The second reason is for his own self preservation. Bricks especially ones that have just mutated do not have any specialize training. They use brute force to solve every problem. They are easy to defeat and make his point. But the part I dont like is that not only does he defeat them easily enough to prove his point of training defeats brute force but he also has humiliated more than one. No matter how much of an ass or percieved to be a trouble maker, humiliating the student will most likely add to that persona. Ito never chooses a speedster regardless how recently they mutated because it is a well known fact that the hand is quicker than the eye. Ito would have his ass handed to him if he sparred against a speedster. No training can overcome what you cant see or perceive. I have been priviledged to worth with or come to know 3 very skilled Masters of the Martial Arts. Each of them belief and teach that arrogance leads to downfall of a True Master of the Arts. The Main reason I believe that Ito is not baseline comes from Joe Gunnerson’s Outcast Corner stores. How Caitlin has described her own sparring sessions with him. Caitlin is more than an Exmpler 2. Please forgive me as I do not remember who from the range squad took Eric’s place in the combat simm setups. But he is an exemplar higher than Caitlin and he states at his first combat simms meeting that the only way he can beat Caitlin is to just outlast her. Ito could not do that even if he was a Chi level 2 expert(which would make him a mutant) The hand speed alone that Caitlin has would defeat Ito easily but with her enhance spedd, strenght and most of all stamina Ito would not spar with her. Train her yes but not open spar with. Now yall can say what you want but those are the rules of this universe not mine.

Thank you again to each of you.. This will be my last response. I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. I hope I have not offended anyone an if I have it was unintentional an I apologize. Null I will apologize to you personally. Please accept this as I meant no disrespect to you or your opinion.

SDom

I, for one, do not feel that you were rude or insulting in the least bit. Your points of discussion were done concisely, without being insulting or mean, and you listened politely to responses and replied in a thoughtful manner. You have given at least this author something to chew on as I work on more stories. I thank you for the polite, if sometimes insistent, tone of the discussion, and the food for thought.

It never ceases to amaze me how certain people can be in their own conclusions. And while we do enjoy being coy with unreliable narrators, allow me to be certain for a moment. Sdom, if you honestly feel that Amelia Hartford serves The Committee before the school or Elizabeth Carson, I must caution you that you do not understand the character at all. I advise you to re-read the stories in the Tansy arc, specifically The Bear, The Bitch and Everything Chapter 4, Even Murphy's Law Has Loopholes and even the flashback sequence in The Road to Whateley.

As to your opinion of Sensei Ito, well, it's a very interesting theory.

SDom111 wrote: Thank you again to each of you.. This will be my last response. I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. I hope I have not offended anyone an if I have it was unintentional an I apologize. Null I will apologize to you personally. Please accept this as I meant no disrespect to you or your opinion.

SDom

No harm, no foul. I don't consider honest disagreement disrespectful at all.

SDom111 wrote: Thank you again to each of you.. This will be my last response. I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. I hope I have not offended anyone an if I have it was unintentional an I apologize.
SDom

I hope you stick around and continue to post!