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Question Faux-Wiz

3 years 1 week ago - 3 years 1 week ago #1 by Softdreams
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  • The Wizard trait is described as the ability to gather ambient mystical energies. Or, tap into Essence pools, altars etc... But these Wizard variations are rarer.

    Let's say... An Avatar with no magic potential of his own bonds with a spirit, that while inherently magical as most (if not, all?) spirits are, ISN'T a mage.

    The Avatar is bent on learning the craft and incessantly asks his spirit for help, so the spirit reaches an accord with its host. "I, a spirit of the Forest, have no knowledge of this... Craft, you vehemently speak of. However, I'm no stranger to the energies that power it. In exchange for this modest dwelling I'll provide you with some of my apples."

    Apples in this text refer to the mystical energies spirits gather at their True Hallow. In other words... Essence.

    It would make sense. Since spiritual energy is denser than Essence making it a fair trade.

    However, since Wakan Takan provides some Essence to Kayda and has stated to only be able to provide Kayda with only a little bit of it since giving her more would "muddle" the connection between them. Does this apply to your regular Avatar bondings?

    Another thing, how deep does the "magic template" spirits set on their Avatars go? It's been stated a few times spirits can change their avatar's appearances to fit their agenda. And some have even "given" new abilities to their avatars this way, or so it seems...

    PD: that was just one of the many examples I could come up with. If that example does not cut it for you... Just think of an AU Tansy who wants to learn magic but still bonds with Mustang (who doesn't seem to be a mage).

    In my actual story the Avatar bonds with an Air Elemental. Which complicates things a even further since... Raw Air Essence + Untrained (Unlit well) Human Mage = YIKES!!!!!!! Recipe for disaster.

    (Edited in: Null, my apologizes for this mess. But could you please re-write your response to this post.)
    Last Edit: 3 years 1 week ago by Softdreams.
    3 years 1 week ago #2 by Softdreams
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  • Also, thanks to whomever fixed this!
    3 years 1 week ago - 3 years 1 week ago #3 by DanZilla
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  • You're welcome B)
    Last Edit: 3 years 1 week ago by DanZilla.
    3 years 1 week ago #4 by Kristin Darken
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  • First thing to note is that spirits do not function on Essence.

    Energy types:

    Psychic (Psionic energy): used by baseline psychics, mutant TK, PK, ESPers, Empaths, and Telepaths; this energy pool is both internal and external to the body... the aura, the pranic sheath... created by the mental ability of sentient minds. It is a powerful, but subtle energy. Psi energy is limited in the same way that 'stamina' is limited. One typically becomes too fatigued to continue before actually depleting it... and actually depleting what you have is likely to kill you. Normal rest and sustenance, augmented by meditation, will allow it to recover. The base amount available varies, accessing it is mostly a matter of awareness and discipline. Training can expand how much is available to you.

    Magic (Essence): Essence is typically an external power, extremely subtle. In its natural state it is generated in places of high concept (where there is enormous amounts of life, life Essence will form. where water is seen in all its nature, Water Essence will form) and flows through lines/channels to places of 'low concept' or void. The more Essence travels in the lines, the less attuned to its foundation nature it becomes Volatile and more 'expressive' (it reacts with the natural order of the world around it)... in this form it is considered Raw Essence. While magical beings are naturally able to draw on this Raw Essence (and higher magic beings like Dragons or the Sidhe can actually pull Essence directly from their most volatile places - the Ley Lines), humans don't normally do so. Ancient magic exists, however, that allows humans to initiate this ability within themselves... a process called "Lighting the Well" or "Sparking the Well" ... this process is not unlike priming a pump. Once a certain amount of Essence is compressed within this place within an individual (their Well), they naturally begin to draw a small amount of Raw Essence into their Well on a continuing basis. Discipline allows them to hold this Essence in their Well, and while it is there, it is 'tamed' and becomes their own. Once the Essence is theirs, they can use it to craft spells and empower rituals and ceremonies. Mutants with the Wizard trait inherently have some of the same ability as magical beings... their Wells automatically (from the moment of manifesting) begin to draw Essence at high rates, high enough that above the first couple ranks, their Wells will spontaneously Spark/Light.

    Spirit (Quintessence): As Essence is in the physical world, there exists another form of energy within the spirit realms and is required for the health/life of the beings who live and make their homes in those realms. It is this power that fuels many of their abilities, though it is possible for spirit beings to also understand and work with Essence. However, these two energies are not the same... and it is far simpler to trade them than to convert them (though conversion is possible, if inefficient). It is far easier to find someone who can work with and gather both types and trade one sort for the other in much the way that common ceremonies allow for trade of attuned Essence types (ie trading raw Essence to a being from the Fire planes in exchange for Fire Essence to fuel a powerful flame spell). Baseline humans do not typically have any awareness or ability to work with Spirit energies, the exception being certain shamanic practices (most use Essence... but a rare few use Spirit). Mutant Avatars, however, have a place within their metadimension nature where a spirit can hide adjacent to the physical world... that generates spirit energy at a high rate. Normally, beings from the spirit realms cannot come to the physical world... and if they do, there is a high cost in spirit energy to get here... and a continuing cost to remain. Should they not return to the spirit realms before their energy is depleted, it can destroy them. There are places in the physical realm where they can hide from this constant drain... these are called hallows. As it happens, the place within an Avatar also acts as a hallow. This gives the spirit being a place to to be safe within the physical world, energy to grow and become more p owerful than might otherwise be possible... and an ally to help serve their cause/purpose. That makes the interaction with an avatar pretty valuable to a spirit being... which is why they are willing to expand a lot of energy up front to grant abilities to the Avatar to help them stay safe and act on the spirit's behalf.

    Divine: Beyond the realm of spirits, there are also those who have reached divinity. And like spirits or mages... there is a sort of energy available to them that they can use to sustain themselves in immortality and to act to their own purposes. This divine energy is created through actions and natural dynamics (like conflict). A given god or goddess can draw on any divine essence attuned to their nature (or domain). divine energy created through the prayer of creation at a forge by a blacksmith would feed a god like Hephaestus. Blood sacrifice in war on a battlefield would be able to be consumed by Aries. Or the Morrigan. The greater the domain and more 'worshippers' involved, the more likely there are active gods 'feeding' on that energy. With lesser domains, it is likely that older gods are replaced by similar ones in newer pantheons... though one being can also move from pantheon to pantheon, using many names. As with spirits... divine energy doesn't readily convert to spirit energy or Essence... but some gods are proficient and able to use more than one, so trade is always possible. Divine energy is generally not something you can tap without already being a god... however, it IS necessary to become a god. So... you can see that there has to be some 'trick' to making that leap... not unlike the one for becoming a mage. It's also possible to fall from divinity... though if they don't do anything except sustain themselves in immortality, it can take a LONG time for a god to run out of energy even if they no longer have a viable domain or access to it.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 1 week ago #5 by Kristin Darken
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  • As to what an Avatar can do to a manifesting mutant?

    A lot.

    Most of the energy involved in Manifesting is energy that works on a metaphysical level... remapping the higher dimensional being of the individual. That's where spirits naturally exist and much of that energy is the same sort of stuff they live on. So a 'savvy' spirit can help fill in the 'database' entries while the manifestation occurs. A less savvy spirit just supplies entries that are part of its own nature. That might be intentional... it might be accidental. After all, they're cozying up to that metaphysical data while curling up in that hallow, their meta-data pushing against the walls where the mutant's meta-data is forming. That's why you typically see more 'tailored' power sets on more 'conscious' or intelligent spirits (and they're the exception to the rule)... while more animalistic or empathic vs intelligent spirits, the avatar tends to get an imprint of that spirits own nature.

    As to how much specifically? It's a matter of power. The spirit wants to benefit from bonding with the Avatar. that means they want to be getting more energy from the hallow than they are putting into powering the Avatar. So most of what they are going to do is typically going to be what they can do with the energy of manifesting. Constant high power actions later on have to be powered by the spirit. But if they're smart enough, they can copy the process of other power traits. They can give their Avatar the same strength and speed as an Exemplar. Or the blasts of an Energizer. If they do it that way, though, the power traits are typically going to be measured as separate traits... because they aren't going to go away if the spirit is lost/leaves. The only powers that will be lost when a spirit is lost, are those that the spirit is maintaining... and the most of those that exist, the more energy the spirit needs from the hallow to sustain themselves and grow stronger. The stronger the Avatar is, the more spirit energy they create. The 'bigger' the spirit is, the more it takes them to sustain themselves... unique named spirits like Kodiak are 'enormous' and consume a 'ton' of spirit energy.

    A spirit that also knows magic and can draw Essence is more likely to teach the avatar magic and train them like a baseline mage. Or make them a Wiz mutant during manifestation... than to constantly feed the Avatar Essence while bonded. The former would only need to commit Essence to Lighting the Avatar's Well and then just training them. The latter would cost energy during manifesting but then would be a Wiz mage. Having to constantly provide Essence to an Avatar would be a constant depletion on the spirit... and an inefficient one at that.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 1 week ago - 3 years 1 week ago #6 by Softdreams
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  • While I did know spirits used an energy other than Essence; Spiritual energy, I was under the misconception spirits gathered Essence at their true Hallows.

    So technically... It's something that can be done, but it's better to go the other routes than to have a spirit act as a built-in magical charger. I'm still sort of leaning towards going that route in my story since it provides the comedic relief and light-heartedness I was committed to bringing with the story.

    But this has definitely opened my eyes to realms and realms of possibilities.

    Since spirits are inherently magical creatures, is Essence gathering something they train themselves for? Can do innately? Or is it tied to the Rule of Roles? (As in, let's say... This spirit is a Forest Witch so her role determines she can use Essence).

    That answered all of my questions, Kristin. Thank you!

    By the way, that explains why Wyatt both acts as an Avatar for and channels Kodiak. I didn't know the Kodiak was such a big spirit, since Wyatt as an Avatar 2 hosted him without any GSD.

    Edited in: friendly reminder; the spirit is an Air Elemental. In case the spirit type affects the answer in any way. Since the Elemental planes seem to be Primal sources of Essence.
    Last Edit: 3 years 1 week ago by Softdreams.
    3 years 1 week ago #7 by Softdreams
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  • Another thing, do Sidhe-bonded Avatars (Avatars who host Sidhe) actually become Sidhe or do they only look like sidhe? I imagine the answer to this depends on the Avatars' Hallow. Or the Sidhe-fication process (Atavism) simply works differently than other bondings.

    Since most Avatars (mostly lower-ranking ones) only seem to look-like their Spirits but they actually aren't a member of that Spirit's species. But Sidhes seem to cross ALL the way.
    3 years 6 days ago #8 by Kristin Darken
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  • Well.. .first you have to keep in mind that mutants are a human phenomenon. Humans who become Sidhe do so during manifestation... and they become Sidhe. Now, there are mutant Exemplar that "look" like Sidhe... that's a factor of their BIT. But they aren't Sidhe. Those who do become Sidhe, become Sidhe with all that entails... and that means they are no longer mutants (and don't have any mutant traits).

    What Sidhe DO have... is an inherently better 'baseline' physicality and mental ability. They aren't Exemplar, they don't have BITs... Sidhe are simply stronger, quicker, smarter, etc than humans. Sidhe also have inherent abilities with magic that humans do not. Sidhe don't require a Well to filter raw Essence... nor do they have to 'hold' Essence before they can craft spells with it. That doesn't mean all Sidhe are mages... but if they are so inclined, they have enormous advantages over humans at becoming mages. Of course, this comes with a down side... Sidhe 'biology' is not purely organic... they are fundamentally 'made' of Essence. This can be tapped for spellwork, at great risk... but also means that in places with low (or an absence of) Essence; Sidhe can 'bleed out'. Which is why any Sidhe left around when the Sundering happened... died. And why Sidhe didn't just come back and repopulate the place. They literally couldn't live here any more. Many Sidhe are naturally about to host/bond with a spirit (like a human mutant Avatar... though the relationship is different - larger better protected hallow, but not the same sort of energy source feeding the spirit - a Sidhe's bonded spirit still needs to keep ties with the spirit realm to sustain themselves). Finally, some Sidhe have some innate Psi ability... typically the nobles and royals... but occasionally others. Note: this is NOT a glamour. It is just PSI... mental power... and usually either an ESP type, Telepathy or Empathy... TK is rare. Sidhe aren't PK's. Court Sidhe children benefit from lost/ancient world magic that automatically provides some Psi oriented defense mechanism to protect them until they come of age. That's NOT an inherent power and they lose it at adulthood. However, if the Sidhe does have Psi, the glamour tends to manifest in ways that translate over to their own power.

    Finally... there's a lot of confusion (recurring confusion) that comes up when people talk Avatar spirits. The most important thing to be aware of is that 'sentient intelligent' spirits are NOT the norm. When a sentient, intelligent spirit bonds with a mutant Avatar, they are almost always going to do so with either a Channeler (so that they keep their consciousness safe and separate from the Avatar) or a Paladin (in which they bond a 'shard' of their total nature that they can afford to lose). Animal spirits. Minor elemental spirits. Those are the majority (the VAST majority... like > 90%) of spirits that bond to mutant Avatars. Not named spirits. Not totems or archetypes or powers. Not powerful magical beings who once lived and now reside in the spirit realms for centuries... or eras. Those things have their own complex metadimensional nature that is far too 'large' and complex to fit into the Hallow of some little mutant. And if they did? What happens to spirits that are bonded to Avatars for a lifetime... a bond at the soul level with a mortal being? There is no ancient Sidhe spirit that is bonding to an Avatar (or a modern day Sidhe). A 'shard' of part of an ancient Queen's power bonded to a newly manifested Sidhe. A powerful healer mage from the Courts set up legacy magic to bind him to a worthy successor... and then shaved off a tiny shard of his nature and sent it out as the 'precursor' bond. Feral, Kayda, and others... are Channelers or Paladins... bonded but not hosting powerful beings.

    And let's face it... if most of these powerful ancients bonded with the mind and spirit of a contemporary teenager at manifestation as a mutant? They'd crush the fledgling mind that barely grasps abstract thinking with a highly developed mind, intellect and mental discipline. The idea of taking a backseat role to a child would be... hilarious. Even to the most moral of them.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 6 days ago #9 by Softdreams
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  • Oh, apparently I wrongly assumed most modern Sidhes were Avatars. Well, Elle Astrid Ruud seemed to be one. But that does explain Sidhes seem to cross all the way, rather than simply being empowered humans through an Avatar bonding. Very interesting.

    Thanks for all of that information, it certainly helps.

    The only reason why I asked about the Sidhe is because the Elemental my Avatar bonds with is a Sylph, and it seems Sylphs are fey. Now, whether or not fey = sidhe, I have NO idea. Since the system changed to "fae is not the same as fey", I have been VERY confused.

    @ShadowedSin, we summon your presence for this one! :D
    3 years 5 days ago - 3 years 5 days ago #10 by null0trooper
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  • Softdreams wrote: The only reason why I asked about the Sidhe is because the Elemental my Avatar bonds with is a Sylph, and it seems Sylphs are fey.


    Not necessarily. Air elementals, whether they have any fae nature or not, have long been called sylphs.

    Softdreams wrote: Now, whether or not fey = sidhe, I have NO idea. Since the system changed to "fae is not the same as fey", I have been VERY confused


    The "system" hasn't changed.
    Nikki Reilly is a Royal Sidhe and has the code name "Fey"
    She has never been presented as the representation of all fae beings.
    Aunghadhail may have thought herself all that and a bag of chips, but Satan thinks he's pretty damned hot too.
    Nikki herself has stated that the People Under the Hill may not even recognize her title suggesting that regardless of where they came from, they are not the same things she is now.

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    Last Edit: 3 years 5 days ago by null0trooper.
    3 years 5 days ago #11 by Softdreams
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  • null0trooper wrote: The "system" hasn't changed.
    Nikki Reilly is a Royal Sidhe and has the code name "Fey"
    She has never been presented as the representation of all fae beings.
    Aunghadhail may have thought herself all that and a bag of chips, but Satan thinks he's pretty damned hot too.
    Nikki herself has stated that the People Under the Hill may not even recognize her title suggesting that regardless of where they came from, they are not the same things she is now.


    Thanks for answering, Null! May you point me towards the story where Nikky said that?

    And yeah... After all of the things Aunghadhail has said JUST to be corrected by others several stories down the line; you'd think I would have started doubting her and realized... She's an UNRELIABLE narrator. *laughs*
    3 years 5 days ago #12 by null0trooper
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  • Softdreams wrote:

    null0trooper wrote: Nikki herself has stated that the People Under the Hill may not even recognize her title suggesting that regardless of where they came from, they are not the same things she is now.


    Thanks for answering, Null! May you point me towards the story where Nikky said that?


    Merry 6, Part One: Being Merry In Spite of it All wrote:



    Hesitantly, Nikki looked at the two of us, “I know a place where she would be safe, if both of you agree.” Nikki squirmed slightly in the chair, “It will take a little time to arrange, though.”
    Sara blinked, “You mean Under the Hill?”
    “Yes.” Nikki shook herself, “I haven't even been there myself yet, so I'll need to approach this carefully. As I'm just an infant in Sidhe terms, you know.”
    Sara tapped her fingers on my thigh absently, "I'm not sure I like that completely, its dangerous territory."
    “Is it any more dangerous than here?” Nikki asked holding up her hand that was slightly caked with my dried blood.
    I pushed myself up on my elbows, "Are we talking Tolkein or more like Merry Gentry?" 
    Sara gave me a wan look, “I was thinking about sending her to stay with Dad.”
    Nikki sat up more formally, if not a bit stiffly,  “The child will have my personal protection, and I assure you, I am no child to be beguiled by my kinsmen’s wiles”
    Sara looked at Nikki and seemed tense again, “Nikki I trust like my own sister. You still want to bury me, Aung.”


    The Gentry yet have their tricks, and their Tricks.

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