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Question A "Dr. King" of Mutant Rights?

9 years 1 month ago #1 by Cryptic
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  • We know there are a lot of mutant rights court cases in progress, but is there anyone standing up for mutant rights doing like Dr King did for African American rights, or is it mostly just the disjointed E-R! groups trying to make things "better" with no real point man?

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    9 years 1 month ago #2 by Valentine
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  • Captain Patriot might be the closest, but I don't think anyone National has been mentioned.

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    9 years 1 month ago #3 by Sir Lee
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  • Not quite the same. Captain Patriot is not a mutant, for one thing. He's not a leader, he's a sympathizer.

    One of the reasons that Dr. King (and Malcolm X for that matter) achieved leadership positions was that they were African-American themselves. I mean, can you see people marching from Selma because a white guy told them to do so? When you are fighting for rights, support from outside can be welcome, but for the leadership to have any real cred, it has to come from inside the group.

    There's the people from Evolution Rocks!, but it seems to suffer from the same problem -- it's mostly composed from non-mutant sympathizers, not mutants themselves. And, as we have seen in "Calamari", the mutants don't seem to take them too seriously.

    Mutants have been too few in number to organize a serious Civil Rights movement. But that's changing. Things like Thuban's Faction 3 could be the seed for it. It's not too unlikely that by, oh, sometime in the 2020's a cabal of the most politically savvy mutants (people like Thuban, Jadis, Ayla... not necessarily them, but people with similar abilities) could assemble such a movement. Of course, if it were those three, they would still need a frontperson -- neither of them is really suited to the role.

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    9 years 1 month ago #4 by mhalpern
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  • Sir Lee wrote: Not quite the same. Captain Patriot is not a mutant, for one thing. He's not a leader, he's a sympathizer.

    One of the reasons that Dr. King (and Malcolm X for that matter) achieved leadership positions was that they were African-American themselves. I mean, can you see people marching from Selma because a white guy told them to do so? When you are fighting for rights, support from outside can be welcome, but for the leadership to have any real cred, it has to come from inside the group.

    There's the people from Evolution Rocks!, but it seems to suffer from the same problem -- it's mostly composed from non-mutant sympathizers, not mutants themselves. And, as we have seen in "Calamari", the mutants don't seem to take them too seriously.

    Mutants have been too few in number to organize a serious Civil Rights movement. But that's changing. Things like Thuban's Faction 3 could be the seed for it. It's not too unlikely that by, oh, sometime in the 2020's a cabal of the most politically savvy mutants (people like Thuban, Jadis, Ayla... not necessarily them, but people with similar abilities) could assemble such a movement. Of course, if it were those three, they would still need a frontperson -- neither of them is really suited to the role.


    So the frontperson could be, Jade- no wait wrong message, Tennyo's too much of a powerhouse and radioactive, they need a mutant who is good with the press and familiar with politics, yet can also connect with those who are less fortunate than themselves, powerful enough to thwart most assassinations and doesn't have a school to run.... maybe they should look in Cinci?

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    9 years 1 month ago #5 by Domoviye
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  • Hank.
    9 years 1 month ago #6 by mhalpern
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  • He has too much of a military attitude, the last thing you want is a military face to represent a feared minority right after insanity anyways... That's why I nominate Stacy

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    9 years 1 month ago #7 by konzill
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  • Aquerna. The seemingly low powered girl next door, who actually can take care of herself if she has to. And seems to have absolutly no skeletons in the closet.
    9 years 1 month ago #8 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • The problem is that you need a very specific kind of person to be a spokesperson like Dr. King. They need to be clean as a whistle so that when their enemies try to tar their image they can't do it. And while Aquerna meets that criteria (mostly - Whateley could be a sticking point), she doesn't meet the other criteria - they also have to be a powerful motivational speaker. They have to have the charisma to lead and convince people (and they can't have any sort of psychic powers that might aid them to do so, or they'll get tarred).


    Also, a mutant Dr. King suffers in that their limelight is partially obscured by the superheros. Either they are a superhero, which is a problem for the same reason that mhalpern described for military backgrounds, or they aren't a superhero, in which case the heroes steal the spotlight.

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    9 years 1 month ago #9 by NeoMagus
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  • You guys all seem awfully certain that these characters will still be around by that point...

    They still have to survive whatever's coming in 2008, and then whatever else the Cabal (TINCC) decides to throw at them after that.

    Probably shouldn't start counting chickens just yet, if you know what I mean. The eggs still have a LONG way to go yet.

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    9 years 1 month ago #10 by Domoviye
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  • A good war hero or a superhero who is respected by the public could pull it off. They'd have to be willing to unmask themselves and, they'd have to have spent most of their career helping others and building up influence. So finding the right person would be very difficult.
    9 years 1 month ago #11 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • The one that comes to mind is Champion. Maybe after he passes the mantle on to somebody else, he could unmask and become a spokesperson.

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    9 years 1 month ago #12 by mhalpern
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  • Actually a mutant Dr King can be a superhero, or retired superhero, they just can't be particularly powerful, if they do have a little bit of dirt, they have to be skilled enough to use their own dirt to their own advantage

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    9 years 1 month ago #13 by mhalpern
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  • Arcanist Lupus wrote: The one that comes to mind is Champion. Maybe after he passes the mantle on to somebody else, he could unmask and become a spokesperson.

    Usually Champions pass the mantle at the time of their passing

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    9 years 1 month ago #14 by Sir Lee
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  • Actually, after she grows up (I AM projecting this to sometime in the future; the first-gen characters might be in her thirties by then), Stacy might not be a bad choice. She is smart, fairly well-spoken, fairly popular, knows not to break the rules needlessly... even her short stint as an outlaw might play well, as a "victim of prejudice forced to run from her own home." There is the TG aspect that could conceivably be a distraction, but even there attitudes are changing -- witness Caitlyn Jenner and the Wachowski sisters.

    But I'm sure that there are other suitable candidates. I mean, even if we limit ourselves to the Gen1 student pool (which is only a fraction of the total mutant population), I'm sure we could find someone, between of the Capes, Venus Inc., the Betas, several of the Golden Kids (although being rich might be a hindrance for this particular role)...

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    9 years 1 month ago #15 by mhalpern
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  • Sir Lee wrote: Actually, after she grows up (I AM projecting this to sometime in the future; the first-gen characters might be in her thirties by then), Stacy might not be a bad choice. She is smart, fairly well-spoken, fairly popular, knows not to break the rules needlessly... even her short stint as an outlaw might play well, as a "victim of prejudice forced to run from her own home." There is the TG aspect that could conceivably be a distraction, but even there attitudes are changing -- witness Caitlyn Jenner and the Wachowski sisters.

    But I'm sure that there are other suitable candidates. I mean, even if we limit ourselves to the Gen1 student pool (which is only a fraction of the total mutant population), I'm sure we could find someone, between of the Capes, Venus Inc., the Betas, several of the Golden Kids (although being rich might be a hindrance for this particular role)...


    Stacy could play the TG aspect off as "no one controls their mutation", assuming she comes out publicly or is found out.

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    9 years 1 month ago #16 by mhalpern
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  • The real problems with a by mutants civil rights movement other than numbers are 1 ragers, 2 Diedriks 3 mutants in general are largely segmented into 3 groups, Heroes, Villains and civilians, and civilians who are open about their mutation are a observably few (even if they are the majority, they don't make up the public image) and marches would need extra organization, not just in the bricks on the outside, highly maneuverable fliers in close air patrol, squishies in the middle way- also separation of probability warpers and keeping people with conflicting powers separate (when dangerous) for instance, you won't put a transmit/recieve empath relay (involuntary amplification of nearby emotions) near someone with an emotion aura (any strong emotion be it fear or lust) or glamour they cant turn off, rather you would put them around psi nulls to cancel it out, you would have to keep ragers around people who can keep them calm or take them out quickly if they lose control, same goes for diedricks sufferers, you would keep the electric energizers away from the mechs but not so far that they cant act if someone Dricks out, then there's the power downside considerations- for instance Miasma would be bad to have on a march, all that organization, combined with the question of where in what's effectively an army of people who could potentially be accidentally dangerous, do you put the baseline sympathizers where they won't get hurt, either by mutants in the march or by violent opposition? What's more is that you would need to distribute ear-protection for everyone, as sonic weapons can make powers go haywire and you know someone is going to try that. Then there's the anti-mutant supers, the fact that the MCO would just be itching for the smallest excuse to make a mistake similar to the National Guard's at Kent State University, May 4th, 1970, without it necessarily being a mistake. Murphy would never allow it to go remotely smoothly.

    The only way it could work is if they piggybacked off of other civil rights movements, rather than having a single dedicated one, taking the "stand for others and they may stand for you" approach and using cyberspace and smaller, but more wide spread action rather than grouping everyone together.

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    9 years 1 month ago #17 by Domoviye
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  • One fanfic I did had a group of heroes from around North America and France do a live press conference with hundreds of reporters, live feeds and more who were already in a feeding frenzy over the actions of the MCO, and got a dozen parents whose children had been vanished by the MCO speaking on tv, while family pictures and videos played behind them. That way there was no risk of Ragers, unphotogenic mutants, and they could control who was let in.
    That would be safer and more effective for them, than marching down the street. With the internet mutants could start a viral campaign about their experiences, situations, hopes, and discrimination without scaring the baselines so much or risking a riot. Have a few big events every two or three months and it could go far.
    9 years 1 month ago #18 by Valentine
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  • Thinking about it Slab would make a great leader of a Mutant's Rights group.

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    9 years 1 month ago #19 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • Domoviye wrote: That would be safer and more effective for them, than marching down the street. With the internet mutants could start a viral campaign about their experiences, situations, hopes, and discrimination without scaring the baselines so much or risking a riot. Have a few big events every two or three months and it could go far.


    Yeah, any Mutant Rights campaign designed to follow the exact steps of the Civil Rights Campaign is doomed to failure because the way media is consumed nowadays is too different. Which is not to say that the Civil Rights Movement isn't a useful role model, but that a Mutant Civil Rights movement would have to take into account how the world has changed.

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    9 years 3 days ago - 9 years 3 days ago #20 by E M Pisek
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  • Well there goes whatever I said when the system crashed and my only lucid moment.

    Thanks cousin Murphy.

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    Last Edit: 9 years 3 days ago by E M Pisek.
    9 years 3 days ago #21 by ~Archangel~
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  • Also with the level of toxic discourse and extreme views I'd expect that if a Mutant Civil Rights movement got any traction there would be an incident with various non-mutants hurt/killed, all caught on camera.

    But I'm cynical.

    Many people hear voices when no-one is there.
    Some are called 'mad' and shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day.
    Others are called 'writers' and they do pretty much the same thing.
    -Ray Bradbury
    9 years 3 days ago #22 by mhalpern
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  • ~Archangel~ wrote: Also with the level of toxic discourse and extreme views I'd expect that if a Mutant Civil Rights movement got any traction there would be an incident with various non-mutants hurt/killed, all caught on camera.

    But I'm cynical.


    In Gen 1 yes, but Calamari Part 3 tells a different story

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    9 years 3 days ago #23 by elrodw
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  • mhalpern wrote:

    ~Archangel~ wrote: Also with the level of toxic discourse and extreme views I'd expect that if a Mutant Civil Rights movement got any traction there would be an incident with various non-mutants hurt/killed, all caught on camera.

    But I'm cynical.


    In Gen 1 yes, but Calamari Part 3 tells a different story


    Remember that a decade exists between where Gen 1 is NOW and where Gen 2 is NOW. During that time, a civil rights leader could have arisen and been imprisoned or assassinated or discredited. Some agencies that remain nameless COULD have done 'false flag' operations to discredit the mutant rights movement. Rager or other incidents, like riots, could have re-stoked public fear. So the mutant rights / relations status in Gen 2 IS far different from the status in Gen 1. Some of these 'incidents' may be mentioned as background stuff - with or without explanations - to set the scene for the state of affairs in Gen 2.

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    9 years 2 days ago #24 by Kristin Darken
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  • An interesting point about the civil rights movement

    The movement itself was actually somewhat derailed at the peak of its success. The fought this long battle, they struggled with legislation and finally got the Voter's Rights Act approved (and take a look at the effort that took in the documentation of its progress through Congress... almost two whole months of filibustering to try to stop it). And then, with marches and riots and everything else happening to change people's understanding of the way the world was going to be... it was undercut by war and the draft for Vietnam ( www.stripes.com/news/special-reports/vie...alty-of-war-1.313273 ).

    We were well into the 80's before the focus started to shift back away from war to racial and gender issues... and the first Gulf war happened without the use of a draft and without high US casualties... and the majority of the population was still shamed by the way we had treated Vietnam vets and refused a repeat of that - creating a positive message of support for, if not the war, the troops involved. That was repeated again, somewhat after 9/11. Too many people were rattled by those events to denounce the war effort... so, at home, we continued looking at those same issues of equality, now focused on the inequalities facing the LGBT community.

    But what about in the WU where, instead of going from the Civil Rights Movement into the Vietnam war and then having almost a generation of dealing with issues 'at home' that were technically already resolved and people just needed to adapt to; you add in another element to the mix. Mutants. Mutants, unlike "blacks, hispanics, asians, etc", actually are dangerous. Not just culturally. Not just making us think about things in ways that the Bible says is wrong... but in ways that involve your house being ripped apart. Or your wife being mind controlled. And while you're a little bit worried about the guy on the other side of the tracks robbing you because he's too lazy to get a job... there's no doubt in your mind that the mutant is dangerous. And what's more important, that Hispanic guy in the part of town that you won't park your car? He thinks mutants are dangerous too. It's actually the one point of common ground you have with these people who you have been told have equal rights as you. So suddenly, the person who is in everyone's focus as the one who shouldn't have rights? The mutant.

    So, in a way, civil rights in the WU are lagging behind our own because instead of our non-war time focus being on civil liberties at home, it has been eyeing the growing mutant population. A successful movement would be to convince other minorities that mutants are now in the same position that 'they' were before the Vietnam war distracted everyone with a draft and sending poverty income men to die in SE Asia...and work to achieve rights for all men and women, no matter the color of their skin, their religion, or their ability to lift all the Congressional lobbyists with the power of their mind. But mutants have to convince everyone that they're just another minority, first. And that's difficult to do when you actually have power... even if its not political power.

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