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Loved Good Cop / Bad Cop ... Ferret Cop

8 years 1 month ago #1 by Kristin Darken
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  • The subject line isn't the real title, of course, which was "Good Cop / Bad Cop" but Dan posted some feedback for me a while back in the canon forums that appended the last bit and it made me laugh, and almost change my title. Almost. But it WAS funny enough I thought I'd share it for the feedback thread here. Thanks Dan! :)


    Put your Good Cop / Bad Cop response here:

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    8 years 1 month ago #2 by Dreamer
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  • SPOILER ALERT
    Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.



    Good Cop/Bad Cop Part 1 comments
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #3 by Katssun
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  • I loved the Monday morning quips from Tavi too. Plus the swats. It seems like Tavi gets progressively more annoying the more people there are to show off to. No wonder Tavi is scared by Kurenai, who better to shut Tavi up?

    Tia has a skill! Hopefully that will boost her confidence a bit. She's less of an underdog if she has superhuman hearing and innate perfect aim to pair it with. Laura or Bianca, Jimmy, and Tia could end up a very scary combat trio/quartet. Ammo, trajectory, and delivery.

    Tia idly bouncing a ball (in class!) seemed like a very boyish thing to do. I guess it's okay since everyone knows...

    I wonder if we'll see Jimmy's internal reaction to Bianca getting outed next chapter. He's already a little confused about the vibes she gives off. Who ends up feeling the most betrayed by the news, Jimmy or Tanya?
    Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by Katssun.
    8 years 1 month ago #4 by GrimGrendel
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  • I always wondered why the school's security never seemed to apply preventive measures against bullying, despite having some really good tech. I'm grateful this was clearly addressed here. Not that that will discourage Jimmy; if anything he'll start a bully buster team with Tavi as the mascot.

    I agree with Katssun that Tia bouncing a ball felt boyish and totally appropriate. Loving how that little action became more and more involved and improbable, and all the funnier the longer it went. Then they got caught by the teacher. There will be some Tia vengeance next chapter, I predict.

    Does the story at the end replaces Jimmy's origin story? I kind of want more now that I got a tease with his big moment saving Chief, but at the same time his recounting has a lot of details which would be redundant if an origin story was in the plans. Can still hope?
    8 years 1 month ago #5 by Esar
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  • GrimGrendel wrote: I always wondered why the school's security never seemed to apply preventive measures against bullying, despite having some really good tech. I'm grateful this was clearly addressed here. Not that that will discourage Jimmy; if anything he'll start a bully buster team with Tavi as the mascot.


    This is Gen2. We know that some years before Gen1 began, they were enforcing policies against bullying and were protecting GSD student actively and then stopped. Ayla has confronted Carson about this, and even if we don't know the details it seems to be part of a plan, maybe to toughen the students and to prepare them.

    I reminded her, “He’s not my victim, he’s the perpetrator. He’s been doing this for months now, and you’re the one with the access to his powers testing records, and yet you didn’t do anything about his behavior until he was hoist with his own petard.”

    She raised an eyebrow at my metaphor and said, “Somehow, I prefer not to fully visualize that image. But I take it that you are inferring something about my handling of student behavior?”

    I exhaled slowly. If I were going to deliberately stick my hand into a beartrap, it would be nice to do it carefully enough that I still had a hand afterward. And Lady Astarte was no one to aggravate heedlessly. I carefully said, “I’ve been asking a few questions. According to school documents and Mrs. Linford – who, by the way, is perhaps a little too chatty about school history, in my opinion – you’ve always been very supportive of the GSD kids, and you’ve always been very tough on bullying. Up until last year, when The Don started running wild and thinking he had his own private fiefdom here. Then suddenly, most of the anti-bully measures are being enforced less ‘effectively’, let us say. Peeper’s freedom to harass schoolgirls seems to be part of that. Although I have thought of an alternative hypothesis, wherein Peeper’s behavior is simply not being punished as much as possible, in an effort to prepare students for life on the outside as a superhero, or at least as a known mutant. So, is it possible that there’s something going on besides The Don’s connections with the avatar-jacking issue?”

    She frowned at me. “I would rather not discuss that last point, except in our most secure conference rooms. And I will insist that you not discuss it except under similar circumstances, such as under the aegis of Fey’s anti-eavesdropping crystal.” She looked at me and said, “Yes, the magic faculty is well aware of Miss Reilly’s inventiveness. More than one of the faculty has taken the fundamental ideas and started… reverse engineering the crystal. In a magical sense.” She went on, “There may be some reasons why this school’s insistence on no bullying has been… suppressed, but I am not going to discuss this with you. Let me just say that I would not be a party to it if I didn’t think that what is being done is crucial in a larger context, and I expect you to let it drop until such time as that context becomes apparent.”

    Whoa. Was she actually saying there was a reason for all this bullshit? But if I could figure it out, perhaps I could provide some external support, and…

    “No, Miss Goodkind. I do not want you investigating, or playing Sherlock Holmes, or hiring more of your outside investigators to look into it, or anything like that. You have more external resources than any other student, and I need you to not invoke them.”


    Thanks Kristin. Tavi is awesome and put a smile on my face everytime I read about its/her/his/their antics (I will have to verify the proper way to address Tavi).

    I am wondering if Tia's power could be in fact a luck based power ? it would be appropriate with the bunny theme ... (the rest of her weakness are linked to this after all).
    8 years 1 month ago #6 by peter
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  • Greatly enjoy the story, and Tavi was a bit part of that. Am wondering if there are hints in the chapter that might indicate that over time Tavi will be upgraded, a lot. This is Whateley, if there was ever a place where a simple program could get 'accidentally' boosted to AI status, this is the place.
    8 years 1 month ago #7 by Kristin Darken
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  • peter wrote: This is Whateley, if there was ever a place where a simple program could get 'accidentally' boosted to AI status, this is the place.


    Peter: In the Gen 2 timeline, Whateley is actually an approved AI creche (or which there are only a handful in the world). We've got some more on AI/VI stuff coming up in the near future... and, of course, keep in mind that Tavi (the VI part) isn't the only aspect of Jimmy's GridGear that could potentially be upgraded with advanced technology to become more than just a simple holdout/tool.

    Esar: Tavi identifies as 'attack ferret.' Proper pronouns for attack ferret are male. :P

    Grim: Yep, sorry, there's not really enough to it for an independent 'origin' story... so the plan all along was to work it in this way. You'll hear some more about Jimmy's home life when its relevant... but probably not in big chunks.

    Katssun: Could go either way... you know Jimmy's going to get upset... but whether Tanya or one of the others is MORE so? You'll just have to wait and see. :)

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    8 years 1 month ago #8 by Sir Lee
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  • Esar wrote: I am wondering if Tia's power could be in fact a luck based power ? it would be appropriate with the bunny theme ... (the rest of her weakness are linked to this after all).

    Well, she could star on the live-action version of the Lucky Bunny Bounty Show ...

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #9 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • Kristin Darken wrote: Esar: Tavi identifies as 'attack ferret.' Proper pronouns for attack ferret are male. :P

    I'm sure that there are female attack ferrets as well. :D

    Did everyone in this place have twenty ways to make you think about using everything you had on you as a weapon?

    Maxim 24: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a big gun.

    Also reminds me of a running joke in the Mage Winds Valdemar series about using found objects as weaponry

    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by Arcanist Lupus.
    8 years 1 month ago #10 by peter
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  • Kristin Darken wrote:

    peter wrote: This is Whateley, if there was ever a place where a simple program could get 'accidentally' boosted to AI status, this is the place.


    Peter: In the Gen 2 timeline, Whateley is actually an approved AI creche (or which there are only a handful in the world). We've got some more on AI/VI stuff coming up in the near future... and, of course, keep in mind that Tavi (the VI part) isn't the only aspect of Jimmy's GridGear that could potentially be upgraded with advanced technology to become more than just a simple holdout/tool.


    Interesting, but does not change the fact that Tavi could be boosted by 'accident' rather than part of an approved program.

    Hmmmm, does raise the question in my mind about A.I. emancipation. Are full A.Is. regarded as persons?
    8 years 1 month ago #11 by Kettlekorn
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  • <3 <3 <3 Tavi <3 <3 <3

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    8 years 1 month ago #12 by Kristin Darken
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  • peter wrote:

    Kristin Darken wrote:

    peter wrote:


    Interesting, but does not change the fact that Tavi could be boosted by 'accident' rather than part of an approved program.

    No... it doesn't. Are you suggesting that Tavi should accidentally fall in a vat of chemicals, have an origin event, and get super powers?

    Hmmmm, does raise the question in my mind about A.I. emancipation. Are full A.Is. regarded as persons?

    I don't think we want to do too much of this as just an info dump... but no, A.I. are considered A.I.... they're not the same as biological people. But in some ways, they are more rational about things than humans... they are very clear on what happens if one of their kind goes rogue.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    8 years 1 month ago #13 by Kristin Darken
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  • So, what do you all think? Have I redeemed myself from the rough/choppy Esoteric first story?

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    8 years 1 month ago #14 by Katssun
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  • If you are looking for some constructive criticism on this one, the backstory segment where Jimmy tells his origin story feels is a bit too dense. It felt out of place with the rest of the story and comes off as a little too much exposition. It's noticeable because the rest of the story flows so well.

    The backstory segment felt like a story interlaced with...stage directions? There's almost too much location information for the action it's relating to the audience. It makes sense for such a detail-oriented character like Jimmy, but it might have been helped by more interjections from Tavi or some interaction with Jimmy's audience to break it up a bit.
    8 years 1 month ago #15 by null0trooper
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  • Kristin Darken wrote:

    peter wrote:
    Interesting, but does not change the fact that Tavi could be boosted by 'accident' rather than part of an approved program.

    No... it doesn't. Are you suggesting that Tavi should accidentally fall in a vat of chemicals, have an origin event, and get super powers?


    Any sufficiently crocked batch of deviser chemicals may turn out equivalent to magic, or coffee?

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    8 years 1 month ago #16 by Astrodragon
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  • Kristin Darken wrote: [
    No... it doesn't. Are you suggesting that Tavi should accidentally fall in a vat of chemicals, have an origin event, and get super powers?


    Oh yes!! Either that or go green and purple....

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago #17 by Esar
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  • Kristin Darken wrote: So, what do you all think? Have I redeemed myself from the rough/choppy Esoteric first story?


    In my opinion, you have nothing to redeem yourself for (I find the turn of phrase awkward, I hope I am not actually saying that you are not redeeming yourself). Was "A Tenuous Blade" different in its structure than most other Whateley stories ? Yes. Was it a bad thing ? No.

    Sure, I can understand the frustration of some readers but each scene hit the point it wants to make. It didn't need to show everything. (and It could have been a problem then for the second half because too much information about the G1Y2 something like a year before the second story set in this timeline could have been too restrictive for the other stories).

    Yeah, Ayla's role might have seemed awkward (because in his stories he has expressed that he wanted to be the one guiding the freshmen because he didn't want someone in his position to deal with another Beltane) but when a story is not told from his PoV it is normal to show him a little distant compared to what we are used to seeing because it is the front he is used to project to other people. We will see if latter he will lend his support to Frank or not.

    (If I remember correctly those were the most prominent complaints that this story had at the time)

    Esoteric's origin story is one of the story that I read again and again on a monthly basis. It is one of my favorite character because of his inner struggle (and the fact that other poesis might not exactly be as understanding of his position as he would like them to be).

    Thank you Kristin.
    Last Edit: 8 years 1 month ago by Esar.
    8 years 1 month ago #18 by Valentine
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  • Kristin Darken wrote: So, what do you all think? Have I redeemed myself from the rough/choppy Esoteric first story?


    I will say that when I originally read A Tenuous Blade, I thought it was rough/choppy, but I recently went back and reread it. While it's not my favorite style, I do no longer find it rough/choppy. It actually flows well.

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    8 years 1 month ago #19 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • Katssun wrote: If you are looking for some constructive criticism on this one, the backstory segment where Jimmy tells his origin story feels is a bit too dense. It felt out of place with the rest of the story and comes off as a little too much exposition. It's noticeable because the rest of the story flows so well.

    The backstory segment felt like a story interlaced with...stage directions? There's almost too much location information for the action it's relating to the audience. It makes sense for such a detail-oriented character like Jimmy, but it might have been helped by more interjections from Tavi or some interaction with Jimmy's audience to break it up a bit.


    I noticed the origin story as well, but I took that as Jimmy's personal narration style, and him trying to be dramatic. It highlighted how different his perspective is from that of a normal teenager.

    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    8 years 1 month ago #20 by Kristin Darken
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  • Arcanist Lupus wrote:

    Katssun wrote: If you are looking for some constructive criticism on this one, the backstory segment where Jimmy tells his origin story feels is a bit too dense. It felt out of place with the rest of the story and comes off as a little too much exposition. It's noticeable because the rest of the story flows so well.

    The backstory segment felt like a story interlaced with...stage directions? There's almost too much location information for the action it's relating to the audience. It makes sense for such a detail-oriented character like Jimmy, but it might have been helped by more interjections from Tavi or some interaction with Jimmy's audience to break it up a bit.


    I noticed the origin story as well, but I took that as Jimmy's personal narration style, and him trying to be dramatic. It highlighted how different his perspective is from that of a normal teenager.


    *nods* yes, that was the intent there. It was one of the last things that I added, even if its an event that I've known about/planned to describe for as long as the character has been in mind. It was intended to read both more dramatically... and with a different sort of perspective/observation of position/layout/organization than most kids would have over a chaotic situation like that. Sounds like it works for some but not everyone...

    Also... there are no Tavi interruptions during the story because Tavi wasn't present at the time. Jimmy had been given his tablet with the Tutoring assistant software, but he was gifted the GridGear by the police chief as a thank you for this event. The Tavi personality overlay was designed specifically for the GridGear. There's also the small element that 'Tavi' wants Jimmy to acknowledge that he's a hero and to grow in ways that accent those qualities (that's what a tutor does) and for the most part, the police had been advising him not to talk and suppressing the info as much as possible to keep the press leeches off him. As far as Tavi is concerned, Jimmy having people he can get a little validation from - is a good thing.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    8 years 1 month ago #21 by Katssun
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  • It was more that Jimmy's story felt very one-sided as a monologue (only getting wary looks when he defended police in general, when others probably harassed at least some of his audience), and he used a lot more "position" terminology in his narration that he usually does. His internal analytical style is usually more about, "sizing people up." Less about relative positions of people, and more about the way they act:
    Recognizing Bianca being twitchy lately, and very guarded about certain subjects (to the point that Bianca noticed him noticing), casing the group of girls (plus Taka and Vic) in the first place when he initially approached the group, noticing the significance of what Tia was doing, etc.

    If it is just his narration style, providing details himself that he now uses the GridGear for, it makes sense. I think it also might have work more smoothly if he used Tavi and the GridGear to set up hard light markers in the room to match what he was describing, like he was doing when they were playing in English class.

    I guess a related follow-up question is, can Tavi (currently?) only provide contextual comments on things that Jimmy's GridGear has witnessed?

    If devisors like Jamie Howe can shut off security cameras and other surveillance gear, can the GridGear similarly be shut down?
    8 years 1 month ago #22 by Kristin Darken
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  • Katssun wrote: I guess a related follow-up question is, can Tavi (currently?) only provide contextual comments on things that Jimmy's GridGear has witnessed?

    Not really... Tavi does have access to press/news records of what happened. Anything that's available to the data collection systems that the Board of Ed has tied into the tutoring system. And he has talked with Jimmy about it.

    What you haven't seen enough to break down so far is probably that Tavi has a couple modes... he has a teaching/tutoring mode. He's still a playful ferret in tutoring mode... but he's a playful ferret that knows ten different methods to teach whatever lesson plan is set as his current goal. And understands how to recognize the signs of which ones are working.

    He has a 'companion' mode... this is the one you've seen the most of, so far. This is the personality overlay working to streamline and anticipate use. And just interact with its owner. The 'companion' mode can also extend to interacting with friends and others in its surroundings... but it only does this when doing so doesn't impact the OWNER interacting with friends and surroundings. And that's the important bit here. Jimmy has focus. Tavi understands enough about social networking to know that pulling focus during this moment would be the action of a poor companion and teacher. On the other hand, had Tavi seen Jimmy having problems with the story... PTSD memory issues maybe? He may have engaged to take the pressure off Jimmy for best results.

    And then there is 'play' mode. Play mode is just doing silly playful stuff as a result of being a ferret VI. Like breaking into song in the cafe... or having a hard light pellet gun fight or any number of little games available to the GridGear. In play mode, Tavi won't really be acting in anyone's benefit... he's just providing the hardware for group entertainment.

    If devisors like Jamie Howe can shut off security cameras and other surveillance gear, can the GridGear similarly be shut down?

    Poor Tavi. You'll get an answer to this in Part 2. Poor little ferret has some rough months ahead of him.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    8 years 1 month ago #23 by null0trooper
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  • Kristin Darken wrote: And then there is 'play' mode. Play mode is just doing silly playful stuff as a result of being a ferret VI. Like breaking into song in the cafe... or having a hard light pellet gun fight or any number of little games available to the GridGear. In play mode, Tavi won't really be acting in anyone's benefit... he's just providing the hardware for group entertainment.


    For some reason, I saw that as being part of the teaching software. Some games demonstrating to Jimmy how fun but inappropriate interactions can be annoying to others, others encouraging social interaction and just having fun without holding back to analyze each person or act for their threat value.

    That should be taken with a grain of salt or ten, coming from someone who likes to read Tavi's lines out loud in an animated character voice. :cheer:

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    8 years 1 month ago #24 by MageOhki
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  • Kristin Darken wrote:

    Hmmmm, does raise the question in my mind about A.I. emancipation. Are full A.Is. regarded as persons?

    I don't think we want to do too much of this as just an info dump... but no, A.I. are considered A.I.... they're not the same as biological people. But in some ways, they are more rational about things than humans... they are very clear on what happens if one of their kind goes rogue.


    To Add to this: Very, very, very clear on this. AI's are not dumb, not stupid, and even the 'smallest/least capable' AI's, are at least functionally IQ 150+ equiv. They know if an AI goes Skynet or like, they're going to get blamed, and don't want it. And there's info on them elsewhere, in threads.
    8 years 1 month ago #25 by Ametros
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  • The relative brevity of this first part left me somewhat saddened, but I realise it's not completely fair when compared to the long contributions from Morpheus and JG recently. Not to mention business regarding the site in general, and your theater job.

    It definitely appears that you're having fun with the GridGear, and it will be cool to see what comes of it in future. As for the device itself being upgraded, I'm thinking it might make for a nice hard-light blade extending from Jimmy's wrist to pair up with his PK - or maybe I'm just thinking too much of the Starcraft Zealot. :-p

    Really nice seeing Jimmy interact with the group from his perspective, and leaving some threads dangling for just a little. As mentioned, his reaction to Bianca will be notable, but also when he and Tia were caught by the teacher. She'll be annoyed because of being held back, but surely she'll be more favourable once the realisation of her ability sinks in.

    And on the note of teachers, I see that names weren't very forthcoming. I wonder if it's because they're nobodies or if they'll be individuals we already know (or will come to know) and the reveal is being delayed to be more dramatic?

    Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
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