Question Wine, Women, and Ayla

okay, you missed places to comment for a while, so have at it.

OK, now that we know who the supervillain was that Ayla kissed, and what is going on with Vox. I do have a question. Did She-Beast's defenses interact oddly with Vox's powers? Normally Vox's powers only lasted a few moments: Ayla picked his nose for a moment before stopping, others did what she said, then stopped. Now one of her orders included "never" in it, so I could see that one lasting, but the other "Leave him alone!" doesn't seem like it would be long lasting.

Valentine wrote: OK, now that we know who the supervillain was that Ayla kissed, and what is going on with Vox. I do have a question. Did She-Beast's defenses interact oddly with Vox's powers? Normally Vox's powers only lasted a few moments: Ayla picked his nose for a moment before stopping, others did what she said, then stopped. Now one of her orders included "never" in it, so I could see that one lasting, but the other "Leave him alone!" doesn't seem like it would be long lasting.

Hmm...very good point. I'd say it's certainly possible that whatever defenses Jadis had in place could have caused the rebound effect to be enhanced. It obviously did something unusual since we've never seen Vox voicing herself before, so it would make sense.

On the other hand it could just be because the two commands were intrinsically connected in her psyche, and as you pointed out one of them in understandably a command of indefinite duration. I'd be more inclined to say it was the above option though.

don't forget Vox's self esteem when it comes to a relationship with Ayla is pretty low. With them being from 2 vastly different "worlds" she would have the feeling that she isn't good enough for Ayla, so she could more easily voice herself to reinforce that.

Dawnfyre wrote: don't forget Vox's self esteem when it comes to a relationship with Ayla is pretty low. With them being from 2 vastly different "worlds" she would have the feeling that she isn't good enough for Ayla, so she could more easily voice herself to reinforce that.

Yeah, it could just have been a "temporary" voice, then she got all depressed and angsty, then with her roommate got all on her case and she had a typical teenage meltdown and broke up with Ayla, which got him all angsty and upset, and it just snowballed from there with neither of them dealing with it or talking about it or resolving things because it all took on a life of its own nothing to do with the original Voicing any more.

Reminds me of another such warriors who's self-esteem took a major hit.

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: it all took on a life of its own nothing to do with the original Voicing any more.

Except that she goes out of her way to "stay away from Ayla" making it seem like the voicing is still active.

Ah, no. She goes all out of her way to stay away from an ex-boyfriend, and snarks and bristles when his name is mentioned to her. Um, that sounds typical break up to me, what ever the reasons.

Over on BCTS, elrod stated that a theory I had was right. That Vox isn't immune to her own power and a protective charm Jadis wears reflected her attempted Voxing back at her. Thus the command to Stay away from Ayla! That nothing she ever did would make him truly love her, it hit her and possible the magical defense of Jadis enhanced it so it is lasting longer or the nature of the command is. So it is not typical break-up stuff, nothing at a high school full of mutants is typical. Okay, the thing between Charge, Charmer, and Ayla seemed like a typical high school thing, but that is the exception that proves the rule.

Dreamer wrote: Over on BCTS, elrod stated that a theory I had was right. That Vox isn't immune to her own power and a protective charm Jadis wears reflected her attempted Voxing back at her. Thus the command to Stay away from Ayla! That nothing she ever did would make him truly love her, it hit her and possible the magical defense of Jadis enhanced it so it is lasting longer or the nature of the command is. So it is not typical break-up stuff, nothing at a high school full of mutants is typical. Okay, the thing between Charge, Charmer, and Ayla seemed like a typical high school thing, but that is the exception that proves the rule.

WOG - Yes, this is correct. Why would Vox go try to talk to Jadis if not to try to 'voice' her to leave Ayla alone, especially being an upset 14-year-old high school freshman who was jealous? So if she did try, and Jadis had some magical protection - and she IS usually prepared - then whammo - Vox gets hit with her own voicing. And with magic ....

Who knows how long that would take to wear off?

elrodw wrote:

Dreamer wrote: Over on BCTS, elrod stated that a theory I had was right. That Vox isn't immune to her own power and a protective charm Jadis wears reflected her attempted Voxing back at her. Thus the command to Stay away from Ayla! That nothing she ever did would make him truly love her, it hit her and possible the magical defense of Jadis enhanced it so it is lasting longer or the nature of the command is. So it is not typical break-up stuff, nothing at a high school full of mutants is typical. Okay, the thing between Charge, Charmer, and Ayla seemed like a typical high school thing, but that is the exception that proves the rule.

WOG - Yes, this is correct. Why would Vox go try to talk to Jadis if not to try to 'voice' her to leave Ayla alone, especially being an upset 14-year-old high school freshman who was jealous? So if she did try, and Jadis had some magical protection - and she IS usually prepared - then whammo - Vox gets hit with her own voicing. And with magic ....

Who knows how long that would take to wear off?

Long enough that it doesn't matter anymore?

Ib12us wrote:

elrodw wrote:

Dreamer wrote: Over on BCTS, elrod stated that a theory I had was right. That Vox isn't immune to her own power and a protective charm Jadis wears reflected her attempted Voxing back at her. Thus the command to Stay away from Ayla! That nothing she ever did would make him truly love her, it hit her and possible the magical defense of Jadis enhanced it so it is lasting longer or the nature of the command is. So it is not typical break-up stuff, nothing at a high school full of mutants is typical. Okay, the thing between Charge, Charmer, and Ayla seemed like a typical high school thing, but that is the exception that proves the rule.

WOG - Yes, this is correct. Why would Vox go try to talk to Jadis if not to try to 'voice' her to leave Ayla alone, especially being an upset 14-year-old high school freshman who was jealous? So if she did try, and Jadis had some magical protection - and she IS usually prepared - then whammo - Vox gets hit with her own voicing. And with magic ....

Who knows how long that would take to wear off?

Long enough that it doesn't matter anymore?

You mean you could have gotten out of these cuffs at any time?!

No! Not at any time! Only when it was funny...

E. E. Nalley wrote:

Ib12us wrote:

elrodw wrote: And with magic ....

Who knows how long that would take to wear off?

Long enough that it doesn't matter anymore?

You mean you could have gotten out of these cuffs at any time?!

No! Not at any time! Only when it was funny...

Or in this case, only when it was tragic.

E. E. Nalley wrote:

Ib12us wrote:

elrodw wrote:

Dreamer wrote: Over on BCTS, elrod stated that a theory I had was right. That Vox isn't immune to her own power and a protective charm Jadis wears reflected her attempted Voxing back at her. Thus the command to Stay away from Ayla! That nothing she ever did would make him truly love her, it hit her and possible the magical defense of Jadis enhanced it so it is lasting longer or the nature of the command is. So it is not typical break-up stuff, nothing at a high school full of mutants is typical. Okay, the thing between Charge, Charmer, and Ayla seemed like a typical high school thing, but that is the exception that proves the rule.

WOG - Yes, this is correct. Why would Vox go try to talk to Jadis if not to try to 'voice' her to leave Ayla alone, especially being an upset 14-year-old high school freshman who was jealous? So if she did try, and Jadis had some magical protection - and she IS usually prepared - then whammo - Vox gets hit with her own voicing. And with magic ....

Who knows how long that would take to wear off?

Long enough that it doesn't matter anymore?

You mean you could have gotten out of these cuffs at any time?!

No! Not at any time! Only when it was funny...

Thank you Roger. Now have a drink.

elrodw wrote:

Dreamer wrote: Over on BCTS, elrod stated that a theory I had was right. That Vox isn't immune to her own power and a protective charm Jadis wears reflected her attempted Voxing back at her. Thus the command to Stay away from Ayla! That nothing she ever did would make him truly love her, it hit her and possible the magical defense of Jadis enhanced it so it is lasting longer or the nature of the command is. So it is not typical break-up stuff, nothing at a high school full of mutants is typical. Okay, the thing between Charge, Charmer, and Ayla seemed like a typical high school thing, but that is the exception that proves the rule.

WOG - Yes, this is correct. Why would Vox go try to talk to Jadis if not to try to 'voice' her to leave Ayla alone, especially being an upset 14-year-old high school freshman who was jealous? So if she did try, and Jadis had some magical protection - and she IS usually prepared - then whammo - Vox gets hit with her own voicing. And with magic ....

Who knows how long that would take to wear off?

don't forget, the typical 14 y/o girl insecurity Vox has about her own worthiness for Ayla, because of their vastly different social backgrounds.

At first I was going to feel bad for Vanessa. Then my brain caught up and reminded me what she was trying to do. She got what she deserved. Sucks for Ayla, but maybe he'll learn to be more careful about what sort of person he invests his energy in. And maybe Vanessa will learn some basic ethics. I'd suggest she take a leaf from Adalie's book, but that would probably just piss her off given the conclusion of WWaA.

So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Hey now! Tansy's trying to improve! Kinda...mostly...a little...

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Oh, god no. Tansy would hit all the same raw nerves that Ayla did.

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Do they even know one another? Have anything in common? No, Tansy has to hook up with Shroud

jmhyp wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Do they even know one another? Have anything in common? No, Tansy has to hook up with Shroud

Tansy and Angel

Dawnfyre wrote:

jmhyp wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Do they even know one another? Have anything in common? No, Tansy has to hook up with Shroud

Tansy and Angel

Actually, that's a really good match, I think. They both have experience with abusive fathers, and growing up in homophobic households. And Angel would give Tansy the space to explore her feelings without pushing her too quickly.

I'm boarding this ship!

Dawnfyre wrote:

jmhyp wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Do they even know one another? Have anything in common? No, Tansy has to hook up with Shroud

Tansy and Angel

I'm thinking she's going to hook up with someone 'outside' of Whateley, given how she's entered the lions den.

One thing that kept niggling at me the entire time I was reading this story were the pronouns used for Ayla, what with them being female. From the past interactions with Ayla in stories, the male pronouns were used, which (to me, at least) reinforced Ayla still viewing themselves as male, no? I'm just curious as to whether this discrepancy is intentional or not. It certainly makes sense for the majority of students at Whateley to refer to Ayla with female pronouns, but not really for Team Kimba to do so. Regardless, this is but a niggle that sparked my curiosity.

Another minor niggle was how part 2 started with "Chapter 4", despite chapters not being used up until then.

The rest of the story, I found interesting but difficult to get through, as I continually discovered myself wanting to slam my head against the nearest object due to the French Feud.

Curious to see more about the network of agents that Hartford's apparently making, and I wonder who this mysterious voice is...

Only Ayla POV stories use male pronouns. The rest of the world uses female pronouns because Ayla presents herself to the world as female even though he thinks of himself as male. (Jade just rushed in yelling "Pronouns!!" After an awkward pause she added, "Well. that's what everyone yells at me for some strange reason.")

jmhyp wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Do they even know one another? Have anything in common? No, Tansy has to hook up with Shroud

Actually, they both have powers that let them manipulate people, so they do have some common ground. And if they haven't really interacted, Tansy may not have had a chance to alienate Vanessa yet.

Then there's the fun of Ayla's reaction to Vanessa and Tansy dating.

Kettlekorn wrote:

jmhyp wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Do they even know one another? Have anything in common? No, Tansy has to hook up with Shroud

Actually, they both have powers that let them manipulate people, so they do have some common ground. And if they haven't really interacted, Tansy may not have had a chance to alienate Vanessa yet.

Then there's the fun of Ayla's reaction to Vanessa and Tansy dating.

Ummm are the two of them of *cough cough* of legal age? Tansy is I'm sure.

jmhyp wrote: Only Ayla POV stories use male pronouns. The rest of the world uses female pronouns because Ayla presents herself to the world as female even though he thinks of himself as male. (Jade just rushed in yelling "Pronouns!!" After an awkward pause she added, "Well. that's what everyone yells at me for some strange reason.")

Not quite correct; I you go back to Diane's Ayla stories, for instance... well, they are first-person for the most part, so Ayla does not use male or female pronouns referring to himself at all. BUT, some characters (Vanessa and, I think, Jadis) use male pronouns, while most (including Team Kimba) use female pronouns. The reasons why the Kimbas don't use male pronouns aren't clear; there's at least one scene suggesting that Hank, at least, deliberately does so in the (mistaken?) belief that he is helping Ayla to establish a female public identity.

But, for most people... looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, has a girl's name... it's hard to think of Ayla as anything BUT a girl. Not a "man who looks outwardly feminine", but "a woman who happens to have 'something extra' (which people try to forget about)". It's somewhat telling that the people who call Ayla "he" are the ones who are particularly interested in his male attributes -- Vanessa and Jadis.

Well, Loophole also uses Male pronouns, and instructs her brother to as well for whatever that is worth.

]because Loophole is respecting what Ayla told her he wants to be thought as / referred as.

Ib12us wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote:

jmhyp wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote: So, who else is now shipping Vanessa and Tansy?

Do they even know one another? Have anything in common? No, Tansy has to hook up with Shroud

Actually, they both have powers that let them manipulate people, so they do have some common ground. And if they haven't really interacted, Tansy may not have had a chance to alienate Vanessa yet.

Then there's the fun of Ayla's reaction to Vanessa and Tansy dating.

Ummm are the two of them of *cough cough* of legal age? Tansy is I'm sure.

I know y'all are horny folks, but not every relationship has to lead directly and rapidly to sex.

Kettlekorn wrote: I know y'all are horny folks, but not every relationship has to lead directly and rapidly to sex.

There's another outcome?

Stomp on my raging hormones, I dare you.

Sir Lee wrote:

jmhyp wrote: Only Ayla POV stories use male pronouns. The rest of the world uses female pronouns because Ayla presents herself to the world as female even though he thinks of himself as male. (Jade just rushed in yelling "Pronouns!!" After an awkward pause she added, "Well. that's what everyone yells at me for some strange reason.")

Not quite correct; I you go back to Diane's Ayla stories, for instance... well, they are first-person for the most part, so Ayla does not use male or female pronouns referring to himself at all. BUT, some characters (Vanessa and, I think, Jadis) use male pronouns, while most (including Team Kimba) use female pronouns. The reasons why the Kimbas don't use male pronouns aren't clear; there's at least one scene suggesting that Hank, at least, deliberately does so in the (mistaken?) belief that he is helping Ayla to establish a female public identity.

But, for most people... looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, has a girl's name... it's hard to think of Ayla as anything BUT a girl. Not a "man who looks outwardly feminine", but "a woman who happens to have 'something extra' (which people try to forget about)". It's somewhat telling that the people who call Ayla "he" are the ones who are particularly interested in his male attributes -- Vanessa and Jadis.

The one person that always confused me about why she uses female pronouns and titles is Mrs. Carson. I would expect her to use male pronouns. I would expect Ms. Hartford to emphasise the use of female pronouns.

Valentine wrote: The one person that always confused me about why she uses female pronouns and titles is Mrs. Carson. I would expect her to use male pronouns. I would expect Ms. Hartford to emphasise the use of female pronouns.

If I remember correctly, Mrs. Carson normally does reference to Ayla as Mr. instead of Ms. It was just in this story she called him Ms. to make the point that was very serious and drive that point home.

Remember some people can resist sirens. Jade in her origin resisted Melodius Silvertungue. Vamp resisted Obsession. I expect Jadis would be resistant too.
Of course I would also expect Phase to be resistant, and Vox has voiced him twice. But in both cases he was told to do something that he wanted to.

amratner wrote: Remember some people can resist sirens. Jade in her origin resisted Melodius Silvertungue. Vamp resisted Obsession. I expect Jadis would be resistant too.
Of course I would also expect Phase to be resistant, and Vox has voiced him twice. But in both cases he was told to do something that he wanted to.

When sparring with Vox (as forced by Ito), Ayla was wearing devisor earplugs; the story (IIRC) says pretty bluntly that it would have worked on him if not for the earplugs. So I don't think he's immune.

amratner wrote: Remember some people can resist sirens. Jade in her origin resisted Melodius Silvertungue. Vamp resisted Obsession. I expect Jadis would be resistant too.
Of course I would also expect Phase to be resistant, and Vox has voiced him twice. But in both cases he was told to do something that he wanted to.

Plus I don't think he wanted to pick his nose.

Jinn was immune, not Jade.

iirc it was Jinn who encountered the bank robber, not Jade.

You are correct. It wouldn't surprise me too much if Jade was also immune, though. She occasionally has unexplained immunity to things.

I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

amratner wrote: I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

Vox voiced Ayla to pick his nose once. (Someone will probably quote chapter and verse....)

amratner wrote: I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

Vox, before she was Vox, and Ayla on the bus from Dunwich to Whateley:

Ayla and the Late Trevor James Goodkind wrote: She smiled and said, “Pick your nose.”

I suddenly realized that I was picking my nose. In front of a hot chick I wanted to impress. How humiliating! I hastily yanked my finger down.

First time she "voiced" Ayla.

elrodw wrote:

amratner wrote: I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

Vox voiced Ayla to pick his nose once. (Someone will probably quote chapter and verse....)

Valentine wrote:

amratner wrote: I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

Vox, before she was Vox, and Ayla on the bus from Dunwich to Whateley:

Ayla and the Late Trevor James Goodkind wrote: She smiled and said, “Pick your nose.”

I suddenly realized that I was picking my nose. In front of a hot chick I wanted to impress. How humiliating! I hastily yanked my finger down.

First time she "voiced" Ayla.

Yep, by my clock it took Valentine less then 20 minutes to find "Chapter and verse"

So, more important question ... Can I have some more?

Phoenix Spiritus wrote:

elrodw wrote:

amratner wrote: I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

Vox voiced Ayla to pick his nose once. (Someone will probably quote chapter and verse....)

Valentine wrote:

amratner wrote: I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

Vox, before she was Vox, and Ayla on the bus from Dunwich to Whateley:

Ayla and the Late Trevor James Goodkind wrote: She smiled and said, “Pick your nose.”

I suddenly realized that I was picking my nose. In front of a hot chick I wanted to impress. How humiliating! I hastily yanked my finger down.

First time she "voiced" Ayla.

Yep, by my clock it took Valentine less then 20 minutes to find "Chapter and verse"

So, more important question ... Can I have some more?

*PICK YOUR NOSE.*

Valentine wrote:

Phoenix Spiritus wrote:

elrodw wrote:

amratner wrote: I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

Vox voiced Ayla to pick his nose once. (Someone will probably quote chapter and verse....)

Valentine wrote:

amratner wrote: I do not understand the "pick his nose" comment.
On Jade or Jinn I stand corrected, I was going from memory and its been a long time since I read it. Mea Culpa.
Now, who wants to explain why Vamp was immune? BTW Darrow was also, but presumably that was a magical protection.

Vox, before she was Vox, and Ayla on the bus from Dunwich to Whateley:

Ayla and the Late Trevor James Goodkind wrote: She smiled and said, “Pick your nose.”

I suddenly realized that I was picking my nose. In front of a hot chick I wanted to impress. How humiliating! I hastily yanked my finger down.

First time she "voiced" Ayla.

Yep, by my clock it took Valentine less then 20 minutes to find "Chapter and verse"

So, more important question ... Can I have some more?

*PICK YOUR NOSE.*

Remember Don't Pick your nose and drive.

Tangent: The only time you might pick your friend's nose is if you are paying the plastic surgeon. "I think you'd look nice with that nose." And even then, you should probably let your friend pick their own nose.