Question A funny thing hit me about Social security!

A funny thing hit me about Social security!

In both of my fan fic's My characters much like Fey/ Nikki or Gwen/ Absinthe or Sara/Carmilia

they have VERY long life spans and like those above---JOBS!
so they all pay into USA based Social security! Via that "job"

So when they hit age 65 or 67 or maybe 70?

Will they get a retirement check for the next 50,000 years or more!

Elves and GOO on Social security Benefits and medicare forever!
That would mess up the national budget some!

At the current rate of appearance, people with above-average lifespans aren't appearing in high enough quantities to really matter to the government.

Of course, this won't matter to the people who decide to devote themselves to taking those benefits away from them. But Social Security needs to be revamped anyways (especially as I'm guessing that the WU's superior tech levels mean that life expectancy is growing as fast or faster than it is in real life), so that might not be a bad thing. And it's not like a perfectly healthy Sidhe or GOO needs the benefits.

Also, I have yet to see any retirement scheme that gives you more money than you could earn if you were still working.full-time. And, anyway, in Nikki's and Sara's cases, at least, anything they could get from Social Security would probably be peanuts to them, by the time they reach human retirement age. Supermodel and Deity both pay very well. Even if they DO choose to retire from active work, their investment portfolios (managed by AJK Global Finances, of course) should keep them in luxury as long as they don't develop a burn-a-Ferrari-every-day habit. Simply stated, filing the paperwork to get a small Social Security check every month is not worth their time.

Still not going to stop the bastards in the government campaigning to take it away from them, and while they are at all mutants, because of course they are not American citizens and don't deserve to take things from deserving humans.

Sir Lee wrote: Even if they DO choose to retire from active work, their investment portfolios (managed by AJK Global Finances, of course) should keep them in luxury as long as they don't develop a burn-a-Ferrari-every-day habit.

I would think the insurance situation would be a bigger issue. I'm sure the WU has the basics worked out, there are passing references to how metahuman damage is dealt with after the fact...but who would possibly insure someone like Nikki?! In addition to her occasional outbursts and overreaching curses, she has all the liability of inheriting a kingdom, with none of the capital and collateral like Jobe (generally) has.

It's not her Ferraris that are the problem. It's Andrew the barista and the smoking crater that was once his Honda, and Mrs. Weddelton and her "terrible" whiplash.

This is why Carson had to trick Nikki into being more responsible.

Ah … she caused a drought and mass forestry die off … I think personal injury lawsuits are the least of her problems.

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Ah … she caused a drought and mass forestry die off … I think personal injury lawsuits are the least of her problems.

Well as a fey queen she's a force of nature, and Sara is a God.

Acts of nature and Acts of Gods tend to be excluded from insurance.

Though act of the super natural would probably be different than act of nature. And would be insured accordingly.

Those polices would have definitely bin amended or modified. The idea of mutant/supernatural insurance is simply too profitable to not include as an option.

Thing is, the insurance business would have adapted to a world with superbeings. New types of coverage, new kinds of exceptions... and some changes to the "terms of art" language. Act of God, for instance, would by now be a deprecated expression in a world where there are alleged gods walking around.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if even in OUR world lawyers were quietly modernizing the language; I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if a sharp lawyer managed to nullify an "act of god" exemption on the grounds that (a) their client is an atheist (or Buddhist for that matter), therefore does not recognize any event as an "act of god", and (b) that the court ruling that anything was an "act of god" was tantamount to the State recognizing a religion and imposing it on the plaintiff, violating their civil rights.

Remember that Ayla had to get a policy that covered paranormal acts for his Birthday Party.

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Still not going to stop the bastards in the government campaigning to take it away from them, and while they are at all mutants, because of course they are not American citizens and don't deserve to take things from deserving humans.

Well, in this case they actually don't. A 100 year old Sidhe with hundreds or thousands of good years ahead of them does not deserve social security any more than a sixteen year old does. It may not be worth the effort to fix it, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Kettlekorn wrote:

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Still not going to stop the bastards in the government campaigning to take it away from them, and while they are at all mutants, because of course they are not American citizens and don't deserve to take things from deserving humans.

Well, in this case they actually don't. A 100 year old Sidhe with hundreds or thousands of good years ahead of them does not deserve social security any more than a sixteen year old does. It may not be worth the effort to fix it, but that doesn't mean it's right.

On the other hand, if they are not going to get anything from it, then they most assuredly should not be paying into it while they work. If they don't get excluded paying in, they shouldn't get excluded paying out (at least for a reasonably period of time, say the average number of years a baseline human who retires at whatever the WU retirement age is will survive to draw a social security pension.) You can't have it both ways, where they have to pay in but are excluded from drawing after hitting the required age (I mean, I'm sure people would try to set it up that way, but with the money people like Ayla can throw at lawyers good luck getting it to stick.)

Kettlekorn wrote:

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Still not going to stop the bastards in the government campaigning to take it away from them, and while they are at all mutants, because of course they are not American citizens and don't deserve to take things from deserving humans.

Well, in this case they actually don't. A 100 year old Sidhe with hundreds or thousands of good years ahead of them does not deserve social security any more than a sixteen year old does. It may not be worth the effort to fix it, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Not that a congresscritter would care, but when dealing with the Sidhe a "social contract" might still be a Contract, and dangerous to break. Even if Nikki doesn't mind the deduction from her wages, seeing it instead as a contribution toward the greater good, the terms of the "deal" might still have to be fulfilled.

The easiest way around the issue would be to continue earning enough money for means testing to reduce the payments. Deposit the resulting funds into a dedicated account, so that there's no question that the required payment was paid and accepted.

We'll have to agree to disagree as to the questionable morality of deciding that disabled 16-year-olds are inherently undeserving of whatever benefits they currently would qualify for. (Yes, that is through the SSA)

There actually are several exemptions from paying Social security tax. Religion is one legally recognized exemption. I have a friend who's father is retired from the railroad here in the US, not sure how it was done but between the union and the railroad officials, he and the men that worked the railroad during his time were exempt from paying or receiving social security and instead receives his railroad pension.

So it would not be to much of a stretch to say that Sidhe could be exempt from paying into social security

Nuuan wrote: There actually are several exemptions from paying Social security tax. Religion is one legally recognized exemption. I have a friend who's father is retired from the railroad here in the US, not sure how it was done but between the union and the railroad officials, he and the men that worked the railroad during his time were exempt from paying or receiving social security and instead receives his railroad pension.

So it would not be to much of a stretch to say that Sidhe could be exempt from paying into social security

There are other government pension systems. A friend of mine worked solely for the local university, and it's pension system replaced Social Security. I believe the Railroads had a similar thing, as do Congresscritters.

null0trooper wrote: We'll have to agree to disagree as to the questionable morality of deciding that disabled 16-year-olds are inherently undeserving of whatever benefits they currently would qualify for. (Yes, that is through the SSA)

JG wrote: I believe that the sixteen year old crack assumes good health and sanity with a normal projected lifespan

Yes, I was comparing a normal, healthy 100 year old Sidhe to a normal, healthy 16 year old baseline human. This should have been obvious. I do believe that a disabled 16 year old human should receive whatever financial assistance is appropriate to their situation, and a 100 year old Sidhe in the same situation should receive the same assistance.

DireApostasy wrote: On the other hand, if they are not going to get anything from it, then they most assuredly should not be paying into it while they work. If they don't get excluded paying in, they shouldn't get excluded paying out (at least for a reasonably period of time, say the average number of years a baseline human who retires at whatever the WU retirement age is will survive to draw a social security pension.) You can't have it both ways, where they have to pay in but are excluded from drawing after hitting the required age (I mean, I'm sure people would try to set it up that way, but with the money people like Ayla can throw at lawyers good luck getting it to stick.)

I don't think it's that simple. Society is mostly okay with confiscating a certain amount of wealth from those who have advantages in order to assist those who have disadvantages, and the greater the disparity, the more wealth people are comfortable confiscating. A Sidhe's lifespan is a pretty massive advantage, so it is not hard to imagine people making a case that the Sidhe should pay greater taxes than baselines. Humans have unfairly short lifespans through no fault of their own, so it makes sense to shift some of the burden away from them so they can enjoy more of what little they have.

Of course, with a total world population of Sidhe just over a thousand, and probably a similar number of long-lived mutants or immortal "baselines", even putting a 100% tax on immortals would have no real impact on the typical person's taxes, so it's a moot point for now. If we were to discover some sort of easily produced immortality serum that didn't work on everybody but did work on a reasonable amount (even just a 1% success rate), then these things would matter.

Kettlekorn wrote:

Of course, with a total world population of Sidhe just over a thousand, and probably a similar number of long-lived mutants or immortal "baselines", even putting a 100% tax on immortals would have no real impact on the typical person's taxes, so it's a moot point for now. If we were to discover some sort of easily produced immortality serum that didn't work on everybody but did work on a reasonable amount (even just a 1% success rate), then these things would matter.

The 1000 that we know of!

there maybe Ten of thousands among us or you?---fear the pointy ears humans....fear us!

lighttech wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote:

Of course, with a total world population of Sidhe just over a thousand, and probably a similar number of long-lived mutants or immortal "baselines", even putting a 100% tax on immortals would have no real impact on the typical person's taxes, so it's a moot point for now. If we were to discover some sort of easily produced immortality serum that didn't work on everybody but did work on a reasonable amount (even just a 1% success rate), then these things would matter.

The 1000 that we know of!

there maybe Ten of thousands among us or you?---fear the pointy ears humans....fear us!

Isn't Nikki supposed to be the 1000th?

Valentine wrote:

lighttech wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote:

Of course, with a total world population of Sidhe just over a thousand, and probably a similar number of long-lived mutants or immortal "baselines", even putting a 100% tax on immortals would have no real impact on the typical person's taxes, so it's a moot point for now. If we were to discover some sort of easily produced immortality serum that didn't work on everybody but did work on a reasonable amount (even just a 1% success rate), then these things would matter.

The 1000 that we know of!

there maybe Ten of thousands among us or you?---fear the pointy ears humans....fear us!

Isn't Nikki supposed to be the 1000th?

crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Orichalcum
Orichalcum/Orichalcium is the ultimate Alchemical metal, and pale yellow in color.[1] It is exceedingly rare and valuable, being produced from Mithril and other ingredients in an Alchemical refinement process so arcane that the only reliable source is a surviving coven of ancient Fey under the Himalayas.[2] Orichalcum is the ultimate conductor of Yang, the mystical energy borne by sunlight.[2]

"""surviving coven of ancient Fey under the Himalayas""

I would hope they are having kids!
that would explain her==Constance Mallory----http://crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Zephyr_(Gen1)-- and why she thinks she is royal born and Nikki is not?

She claims to be Sidhe nobility, styling herself Lady Constance Mallory, seems very jealous of Fey for her looks, power and apparent queenship, resents her fiercely for – in her eyes - usurping her leadership and calls her a poser.

lighttech wrote:

Valentine wrote:

lighttech wrote:

Kettlekorn wrote:

Of course, with a total world population of Sidhe just over a thousand, and probably a similar number of long-lived mutants or immortal "baselines", even putting a 100% tax on immortals would have no real impact on the typical person's taxes, so it's a moot point for now. If we were to discover some sort of easily produced immortality serum that didn't work on everybody but did work on a reasonable amount (even just a 1% success rate), then these things would matter.

The 1000 that we know of!

there maybe Ten of thousands among us or you?---fear the pointy ears humans....fear us!

Isn't Nikki supposed to be the 1000th?

crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Orichalcum
Orichalcum/Orichalcium is the ultimate Alchemical metal, and pale yellow in color.[1] It is exceedingly rare and valuable, being produced from Mithril and other ingredients in an Alchemical refinement process so arcane that the only reliable source is a surviving coven of ancient Fey under the Himalayas.[2] Orichalcum is the ultimate conductor of Yang, the mystical energy borne by sunlight.[2]

"""surviving coven of ancient Fey under the Himalayas""

I would hope they are having kids!
that would explain her==Constance Mallory----http://crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Zephyr_(Gen1)-- and why she thinks she is royal born and Nikki is not?

She claims to be Sidhe nobility, styling herself Lady Constance Mallory, seems very jealous of Fey for her looks, power and apparent queenship, resents her fiercely for – in her eyes - usurping her leadership and calls her a poser.

OK, she's the 1000th 'modern' sidhe.

Mom, I Don't Feel So Good wrote: “Well for one thing, Nick, you appear to be the one thousandth Faerie mutant recorded in modern history. For that purpose, modern history runs from around the early sixteen hundreds to now.”

But that begs the question is how badly was time broken by the sundering, and how far back is history and prehistory?

Valentine wrote: But that begs the question is how badly was time broken by the sundering, and how far back is history and prehistory?

Wasn't it explained to Kayda that it could seem like only years to some spirits, if that? The wounds feel very recent to some. Bitter betrayals still rankle. Time was very badly mangled, our history simply overwrote millennia.

I got the impression that the entities who survived got scattered around, landing all over the timeline. Some are popping back in now, some popped in a few centuries ago, maybe some during the Cretaceous, etc.

Kettlekorn wrote: I got the impression that the entities who survived got scattered around, landing all over the timeline. Some are popping back in now, some popped in a few centuries ago, maybe some during the Cretaceous, etc.

Yeah, that took a while to sink in, especially the notion that Pangea, a single land mass some (mumble) thousand years ago, had its break-up into the continents shifted back 175 million years!