×

Notice

The forum is in read only mode.
× Feel free to discuss any typical forums accepted topic here, Whateley or otherwise. Let's avoid the usual suspects: politics, religion, and so forth that tend to result in flame wars and angered forums readers. Other topics will be considered fair game unless they prove to be too volatile, at which point we'll use Devisor created anti-flame chemicals on the subject.

Question Spoilers....

6 years 6 months ago #1 by CrazyMinh
  • CrazyMinh
  • CrazyMinh's Avatar Topic Author


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • If you didn't get the River Song Reference there, this post is about how last Sunday here in Oz, the first episode of the new series of Doctor Who dropped...and...well...ok, let's just add a extra layer of redundancy, and put the rest of this post in a spoilers section:

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    In other news, I just got a Tee-shirt with the Planetary Union logo on it:

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 6 months ago #2 by Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny's Avatar


  • Posts: 1956

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • I actually overall enjoyed the episode. As for the critique of the portrayal of the Doctor, you need to remember that they were doing the post regeneration amnesia thing with her. The way the Doctor was portrayed may not be how a fully-realized version would be. She did on several occasions mention the " not quite me yet" aspect.
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #3 by Katssun
    • Katssun
    • Katssun's Avatar


  • Posts: 1333

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • I thought the death was very telegraphed and handled quite poorly in the episode, but I loved the new Doctor, and the episode overall.

    I was a little unsure since the previous series ended, and I wasn't really a fan of Capaldi..or the writing...or the other characters. I hadn't really liked the last two series much at all, but Whittaker won me over immediately once we finally got to see her portrayal.

    I did think the media was pushing the feminist victory too hard the last several months since her announcement, since it reminded me of the Ghostbusters back and forth fiasco, but the show just did its own thing and was great for it. She's been utterly infectious the last few weeks of press tour.

    edit: And the aliens in the franchise have always been corny. It's kinda the Doctor Who way.
    Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by Katssun.
    6 years 6 months ago #4 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • It was a great episode, didn't care for the villain, but the focus needed to be on the brand new ensemble cast anyways.
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #5 by JG
    • JG
    • JG's Avatar


  • Posts: 1454

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • the doctor, and who plays him/her well, will always be a polarizing topic, as everyone who is a huge fan will either love 'em or hate 'em, with very little middle ground.

    I just lump 'em all in with Trekkies and the rabid star wars fans:

    All are heretical cults.

    :twisted:

    Come at me brah!
    6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #6 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar Topic Author


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • JG wrote: the doctor, and who plays him/her well, will always be a polarizing topic, as everyone who is a huge fan will either love 'em or hate 'em, with very little middle ground.

    I just lump 'em all in with Trekkies and the rabid star wars fans:

    All are heretical cults.

    :twisted:

    Come at me brah!

    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by CrazyMinh.
    6 years 6 months ago #7 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • So far, I'm unimpressed by the new series.

    A female Dr Who, fine, but she needs to show a bit of character. Compare her to some of the other strong female characters...no. But the script was awful, so I'll give her a couple more episodes to make good.

    Script? Terrible. The new writer hasnt done SF, and doesn't seem to have bothered to find out about it. A 5 year old could probably have written a better one.
    Supporting cast? Well, despite the PC BBC, there actually are quite a few non-coloured people even in Sheffield. Not that you'd realise this from tha casting.
    So what did we get?
    A young black guy who supposedly has a handicap (didnt seem to be an issue when anything actually hapenned, so its just a PC-gesture)
    A younfg female asian with no apparent, well, character.
    An old black woman who was the best of the lot - so they killed her off, followed by the most cringe-inducing requiem I've had to suffer through in a long time - so bad, I very nearly turned the TV off at that point.
    An old white guy, presumably included so he can look a part and make the two youngsters look cool and smart by comparison.

    So far, I'd give it 2/10, and I think I'm being generous. It needs to improve seriously, and fast, but given the 'skills' of the writer, I frankly am doubtful this will happen.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #8 by JG
    • JG
    • JG's Avatar


  • Posts: 1454

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Diversity is fucking amazing when it FEELS organic to the story, when it fits, when it feels natural.

    But rather like the latest star wars shitshow, and a wrinkle in time, and every other hollywood turd that sacrifices plot, characterization and acting for diversity just feels artificial, shitty and comes off more like a political correctness agenda seminar than a movie you want to drop 15 bucks on.

    now the wrinkle in time? The young lady in the lead, and the woman who played mom? they came off like a real family with chris pines. they were the best part of the movie, the interactions between the three. the baby brother was borderline autistic in the book and the movie so whatever.

    Had A wrinkle in Time left that there, and then focused on plot, story, character development and the theory that the movie was based on, it could have been amazing. But what came after was a visual kaleidoscope of...

    What.

    The.

    Fuck?

    The director wanted to focus on diversity over everything. She fucked the story over.

    the token white kid had no real function in the movie, despite that character being repeatedly insanely important through the entire series. His inclusion felt like "Ok we can have a normal white kid too, he's just written out of importance."

    Star Wars: The Worst Jedi's only real redeeming quality was mark hamill being a grumpy, disillusioned fucker. That amused me, even if I think Disney's new Canon is utter shit that annihilated the flow of the story more than the prequels ever could.

    Diversity done right? Deadpool. So she didnt look like Domino. Somewhat jarring, sure. She played the hell out of the character.

    But right now Hollywood is on the diversity kick and wants to rub everyone's nose in it like a puppy that pissed on the carpet.

    The doctor being a woman? sure. But what you do with the rest of the backdrop and story matters quite a lot.
    Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by JG.
    6 years 6 months ago #9 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964

    • JG wrote: Diversity is fucking amazing when it FEELS organic to the story, when it fits, when it feels natural.


    That has been one of the better features of science fiction and fantasy being free to engage in world-building (and then blowing those new worlds into itty-bitty pieces).

    JG wrote: Diversity done right? Deadpool. So she didnt look like Domino. Somewhat jarring, sure. She played the hell out of the character.


    I'd add Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury and Scarlett Johansson's Major Kusanagi.

    Playing it straight with Gal Gadot as Princess Diana (both are from the Eastern Mediterranean, no matter how often DC's artists forget that) worked.

    Dr. Who's Martha Jones would be an example of getting it wrong. It was if the writers forgot entirely that The Companion has to have more characterization than requiring that one of her three descriptors involve secondary sexual characteristics conforming to those of the Homo sapiens female. There were entire episodes in which the monster of the week got more to work with than Freema Agyeman.

    JG wrote: But right now Hollywood is on the diversity kick and wants to rub everyone's nose in it like a puppy that pissed on the carpet.


    That's because it's cheaper to bag diversity tic marks and wokeness princess points - which wins Awards that impress the financial backers - for a project than to hire a really good script-writer away from the competitors.

    Also, Twitter critics and industry hacks live for social identity labels, so you can get a lot of easily-measured buzz from folks who'd never pay to see the show or read the book.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 6 months ago #10 by JG
    • JG
    • JG's Avatar


  • Posts: 1454

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Samual L. Jackson's performance as nick Fury needs no freaking qualifier.

    I don't know enough about Kusanagi to give a crap either way (not an anime fan!)

    Bluntly you could have dropped a wrinkle in time into ANY community demographic (white family, black family, hispanic family, whatever) because it's the story of a child genius, her autistic, telepathic brother and the jock with a heart. The race and diversity doesn't matter. The STORY does, in that case as the characters are more well-defined by their thoughts and actions than they ever were physically described.

    but one of the things that always made Star wars STAR WARS wasn't the racial presence of humanity, it was that humanity was a blip in a huge menagerie of aliens that were pretty much a complete afterthought in the newest star wars flicks. You don't SEE the galaxy, and the menagerie, you get to see how many human minority demographics we can stuff on a stage.

    That's what people miss, in a story where dancers have tentacles sprouting from bald heads and lizardmen play hunter alongside even more exotics of cast, black skin and asian features mean jack beyond "hey, that's another human."
    6 years 6 months ago #11 by Kristin Darken
    • Kristin Darken
    • Kristin Darken's Avatar


  • Posts: 3898

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • null0trooper wrote:

    JG wrote: But right now Hollywood is on the diversity kick and wants to rub everyone's nose in it like a puppy that pissed on the carpet.


    That's because it's cheaper to bag diversity tic marks and wokeness princess points - which wins Awards that impress the financial backers - for a project than to hire a really good script-writer away from the competitors.

    Also, Twitter critics and industry hacks live for social identity labels, so you can get a lot of easily-measured buzz from folks who'd never pay to see the show or read the book.


    Actually... the industry is struggling to fix its own bullshit. Those of us who are artists and DO care about such things are very aware that theatre, tv, and film have very much been about white, male issues and stories for several generations. If you look at teenage acting programs, colleges, and general young adult acting calls; you will find a HUGE disparity in gender. If there were 10k times more ingenue opportunities, there still wouldn't be enough to meet the demand. And yet... at every other level and in every other area of the industry, from producer to director, writer, choreographers, designers for ever area except costumes... it is outrageously male dominated. The average regional theatre does 5-8 plays each year... and of those, between 0 and 1 are written by women. between 0 and 1 are directed by a woman. between 0-1 of them have more than 1/4 of their cast played by women. And that's companies that do contemporary work... if its a classical company, the odds of women being involved GO DOWN from that.

    On top of that, we're notorious for using the actors we have.. whether that meets appropriate demographic demands of the script/story or not.

    In trying to fix this, there are plenty of people who look at it rationally. And while they're working on it, they know its going to take time to make realistic change. In the meantime, some people will boycott them... or refuse to fund them in favor of other companies making 'faster' change. Never mind that the changes they'll make will be more stable and sustainable... people don't fund slow change, they want things changed and they want it now.

    Then, there are those who want the credit for 'having fixed their problems' first. Why? Because of those people who boycott otherwise. There are companies who don't have a choice. Their board or specific investors keeping them afloat have said... do it or I'm taking my toys and going home. Disney's facing a lot of challenges right now due to the whole anti-Princess thing. They can see the writing on the wall and they're willing to risk some bad reviews, even on high value IP, to show that they're trying to change things around. And they can get away with it on something like Star Wars because, let's face it, even BAD Star Wars is going to draw fans to the box office. They'll complain about it, but they won't miss it. And now Disney can say "see what we're trying to do?"
    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 6 months ago #12 by Erianaiel
    • Erianaiel
    • Erianaiel's Avatar


  • Posts: 133

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • JG wrote: Star Wars: The Worst Jedi's only real redeeming quality was mark hamill being a grumpy, disillusioned fucker. That amused me, even if I think Disney's new Canon is utter shit that annihilated the flow of the story more than the prequels ever could.


    I really do not understand the rage directed at the star wars sequel trilogy for being 'too diverse'

    I watched the original trilogy on dvd (with a lot of pressure from my husband that they are cultural icons and how I shouldn't be a stereotype by rejecting them just because they are a different genre and have the word war in the title ;))
    What I took away from that, in light of this particular subject, is that it's a trilogy about a bunch of white guys (plus a token princess and Monty's great grandfather) saving the universe from the evil empire of another bunch of white guys (and a creepy gnome). And that for the time it was an 'amazingly feminist' movie because the token princess got to display actual, if largely plot irrelevant, competence.

    For the new movies I can't see anything in particular to be upset or, worse, outraged over (to the point of issuing death threats). Sure not every character in the movie is white, male and handsome, but amazingly enough nothing is made of that fact. It just is.
    And you know what? The majority of the cast is still white, male and handsome. (and most of the third and the entire fourth act is pretty much exclusively about those white male and handsome characters. Well, not completely the white part, but definitely the other two. And nobody is having problems with that because that, too, is not made any fuzz about. It just turned out that way and that is fine too.)

    So, no, I do not understand why this is something that so many people get this upset about. Sure, there are couple of women in the rebellion (five if you want to count them, compared to dozens of men). And sure there are a few black and asian characters in the movie(s) too (compared to dozens of white actors). And there are dozens of alien puppets and muppets, but apparently those are okay and do not offend any sensibilities?
    6 years 6 months ago #13 by JG
    • JG
    • JG's Avatar


  • Posts: 1454

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • dozens of puppets and muppets. where's the actors dressed the part as aliens to fill out the cast as was the hallmark of so many star wars movies? CGI and puppets don't bring the breadth to the cast

    Diversity I don't have a problem with. I have a problem with diversity being more important than the right actor. Or bothering to hire a good writer. I've seen it done very right. I've seen it done so that it felt clunky and forced.

    It's like I said before: A wrinkle in time could have been about ANY demographic. but the things that made Wrinkle what it was? glossed over. it wouldn't have mattered what race the kids were to the story. But everything they did RIGHT with the mixed-race family feeling like they should be the family at the core of the movie, the characters that you empathized with from the word go? That sense of normalcy that the family had, warts and all got lost in the kaleidoscopic shitshow of special effects and randomized weirdness that had little to do with the original story.

    My problem is not diversity in movies and such. I could give a merry fuck about that. I care when the rest of the elements of a good movie take a back seat to it, because it IS the main goal of the director/producer/whatever.

    Kids in A Wrinkle in time did great. But the half-ass execution of the story behind the kids who did well left a sour taste in my mouth.
    6 years 6 months ago #14 by MageOhki
    • MageOhki
    • MageOhki's Avatar


  • Posts: 548

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Okay, quick bit.

    There's two reasons for rage for the Disney Star Wars.
    1: The quality (and I use this loosely) is worse than even the prequels. I suggest you go listen to Mark Hamel on Luke Skywalker and the Last Jedi. There's some very *revealing* points.
    2: As JG pointed out, it's not that it's diverse. (While Star Wars, as JG pointed out *should* be human race neutral, dude, in reality, George had to work with what actors he had willing, and given most work was done in England and HW of the late 70's *very* early 80's... that meant white people) It's *how* they're pushing it. Going back to point one.

    While I might concede Kristen's point above. It's not that we're (those who are annoyed by it) upset by movies reflecting humanity, or written by XYZ, or...

    We're *upset by those who are shoving it into our faces and making a big deal over it* Example given by JG. (I read the book, for example, so I know *exactly* what he's referring to), another example, that's more pertinent:

    Fury as a black man in the new Marvel movies *works* because it's a *different* era, and Fury has a *different* background. There's a reason even Marvel flat out admits that the Movieverse is it's own separate universe.

    But... if they made, oh... Steve Rodgers black, with the same origin, to the letter, *that* would be jarring. and in your face.

    What those who are bitching about 'wokeness' SJW, et al, are going is "This is too far, guys, you're going beyond what's needed" THAT is the issue we're going. For example.
    'll take a (flop, shame, it was *good* and very close to the orginal) SF movie recently. Valerian (which didn't do this, btw, but I'll use it as an example). What gets us, is when you take, a 10th century *French* Peasant woman, and make her black, for example, from the 20th century. THAT's what is happening to some extent.

    As JG (and I) point out, some diversity works *well* (Domino, Fury for example) Some *doesn't*. It's when it's blatant, in your face, accept it or else. And Star Wars seems to be heavily affected (I wouldn't know, I'm not *watching the Last Jedi* Force awakens turned me off*)
    Side note: I could use another example.
    Star Trek was *very* forward for it's time, I'll point out. A *Black woman* as an *officer and command crew member* of a *starship warship*? Very 'progressive'.
    JJ didn't mess with it, though he gave her a bigger role, but the *actress pulled it off* the Discovery, OTOH.. *didn't* do it as well, and even the subplot about Sulu being gay in Abramsverse came off flat.

    It's *when it seems there just to promote* whatever political ax that is getting us. People go to plays, movies, et al to *be entertained* not have politics shoved in their eyes.
    6 years 6 months ago #15 by Katssun
    • Katssun
    • Katssun's Avatar


  • Posts: 1333

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Franchise that does diversity right? Fast and Furious. It's part of the reason it is so popular and does so well at the box office. It's my guilty pleasure. It has been since I was dragged to the first one.

    But how do they address diversity? More or less ignoring how inclusive they are, completely. They match the demographics to the cities the installments are set in. They don't hold back on anyone, for any reason. Everyone is respected for what they are capable of, and only that.

    That means everyone gets treated as an individual, not ever defined by what they are, but who they are.

    That's what I'm hoping this season of Doctor Who is like. It might have been better set more in the Greater London area than Sheffield to work that way, but it got the metropolitan demographics at least.
    6 years 6 months ago #16 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964

    • Erianaiel wrote: I really do not understand the rage directed at the star wars sequel trilogy for being 'too diverse'


    Good. Because while that's the narrative being spun by people who don't understand that changing the melanin content of a character's skin or their chest size doesn't inherently improve a story, that's not what's happening. Sure, there is hate mail. Anyone who doesn't think that a movie pitched to a general audience of billions of humans just might attract some master-level virulence is fooling themselves.

    There is some rage at Disney and the publicity industry characterizing any Star Wars fans who don't like the latest round of movies as racist, sexist, and homophobic.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 6 months ago #17 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • Katssun wrote: That's what I'm hoping this season of Doctor Who is like. It might have been better set more in the Greater London area than Sheffield to work that way, but it got the metropolitan demographics at least.


    No it bloody didn't.
    Not even close, except in the BBC's Londoncentric bizzaroverse where the only white people in the UK are old and stupid.

    What Hollywood is trying to push in your face is nothing compared to the BBC.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 6 months ago #18 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964

    • Astrodragon wrote:

    Katssun wrote: That's what I'm hoping this season of Doctor Who is like. It might have been better set more in the Greater London area than Sheffield to work that way, but it got the metropolitan demographics at least.


    No it bloody didn't.
    Not even close, except in the BBC's Londoncentric bizzaroverse where the only white people in the UK are old and stupid.

    What Hollywood is trying to push in your face is nothing compared to the BBC.


    Wiki link
    White: 87.17%
    Asian or Asian British: 6.92%
    Black or Black British: 3.01%
    British Mixed: 1.98%
    Other: 0.92%

    Making the UK as a whole more like Oregon than Georgia.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #19 by JG
    • JG
    • JG's Avatar


  • Posts: 1454

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • Katssun wrote: Franchise that does diversity right? Fast and Furious. It's part of the reason it is so popular and does so well at the box office. It's my guilty pleasure. It has been since I was dragged to the first one.

    But how do they address diversity? More or less ignoring how inclusive they are, completely. They match the demographics to the cities the installments are set in. They don't hold back on anyone, for any reason. Everyone is respected for what they are capable of, and only that.

    That means everyone gets treated as an individual, not ever defined by what they are, but who they are.

    That's what I'm hoping this season of Doctor Who is like. It might have been better set more in the Greater London area than Sheffield to work that way, but it got the metropolitan demographics at least.


    THIS!!!

    This is exactly what I am talking about, thank you. I do sometimes have a hard time articulating what I mean on some topics.

    I want to see more movies that focus on being GOOD MOVIES. Unless you're watching a historical piece or a story set in spoecific times and places, I actually don't care if the actor is black, asian, mexican, or an alien from the far side of Flemdar as long nas they can ACT and make me believe they are the character.

    If you give me a good enough performance I'll accept that Harry Dresden wasn't a whitebread vegas magician's kid and that he was born in West Philadelphia and raised by his evil uncle in Bel Air after his father died.

    Black Panther: The Movie was set in AFRICA. The almost entirely black cast was colorful, competent, and the movie ensemble felt like it should be there. It matched the setting, the whole movie did the black superhero character without going out of it's way to call out the fact that it was a movie about a black superhero.

    I feel that a movie shouldn't have to call out things like this, or feel forced. The movies that have the diversity without any sort of fanfare or call-out often feel the least forced.

    Edit: Movies should just do it, not announce it and make it part of some socio/political statement or encouraging people to do so. Now that I think about it, the more people yell LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME! the more irritating I find them too. it's the same thing here. Movies should be for fun and entertainment, not to push an agenda. I think less time pushing the diversity issue forward so much as making it known which outfits/studios/producers/directors refuse to include would be more constructive. Hit 'em in the wallets.
    Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by JG.
    6 years 6 months ago #20 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Well, Part 2 has now aired, and while at least it didnt rub diversity in your face (good), the script was utter pants.
    And they showed the new Tardis. My wife remains seriously unconvinced.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 6 months ago #21 by JG
    • JG
    • JG's Avatar


  • Posts: 1454

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Nothing can save bad writing.

    Nothing.
    6 years 6 months ago #22 by E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley
    • E. E. Nalley's Avatar


  • Posts: 2005

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 10 Mar 1970

    • JG wrote: Nothing can save bad writing.

    Nothing.


    True. As I've often said, good writing will carry bad FX, or bad acting, but all the CGI or Shakespearean actors in the world won't carry bad writing.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    6 years 6 months ago #23 by Katssun
    • Katssun
    • Katssun's Avatar


  • Posts: 1333

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Overall? Was it a bad episode? Very much so. Badly written almost entirely through and through.

    But what very nearly saved it for me was Whittaker again.

    "Come to Daddy...I mean Mummy, I mean, I really need you right now!"

    It's such a short set of lines, but so well done.
    6 years 6 months ago #24 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • What I am seeing is expositing for a season long arc, i wish it wasn't so obvious, but with no old recurring villains this season, it might not be a bad attempt
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #25 by Kristin Darken
    • Kristin Darken
    • Kristin Darken's Avatar


  • Posts: 3898

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Heh. Balancing the exposition between episode and season writing... harder than you might think. Right Gen 2 authors? :P
    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 6 months ago #26 by Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny's Avatar


  • Posts: 1956

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • I didn't think either episode was bad, really. The one thing I think is hindering the show is that there are one or two too many companions.
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    6 years 6 months ago #27 by marie7342231
    • marie7342231
    • marie7342231's Avatar


  • Posts: 256

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • E. E. Nalley wrote:

    JG wrote: Nothing can save bad writing.

    Nothing.


    True. As I've often said, good writing will carry bad FX, or bad acting, but all the CGI or Shakespearean actors in the world won't carry bad writing.


    Examples 1, 2, and 3 and the Fantastic 4 movies we have endured so far.
    6 years 6 months ago #28 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • Kristin Darken wrote: Heh. Balancing the exposition between episode and season writing... harder than you might think. Right Gen 2 authors? :P


    What I see is a poorly written first episode, and an even worse second one.

    I remain unconvinced that this is part of some secret seasonal masterplan.
    No matter what, your first episode should try to sparkle, or at the very least aspire to greatness, not aspire to mediocraty.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 6 months ago #29 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • Astrodragon wrote:

    Kristin Darken wrote: Heh. Balancing the exposition between episode and season writing... harder than you might think. Right Gen 2 authors? :P


    What I see is a poorly written first episode, and an even worse second one.

    I remain unconvinced that this is part of some secret seasonal masterplan.
    No matter what, your first episode should try to sparkle, or at the very least aspire to greatness, not aspire to mediocraty.

    The first two episodes had to focus on developing 4 characters, and they have done that pretty well
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #30 by Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny's Avatar


  • Posts: 1956

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • I love the theme and opening... harkens back to classic who, specifically the 1st and 2nd Doctors.
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    6 years 6 months ago #31 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar Topic Author


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Hey kids, wanna hear some EVEN worse news???

    ...

    ...

    Eh???

    Stuff it, dropping the imitation. No one will get it anyway. <ahem>

    The bad news is that my friend (who's dyspraxic) watched the bit with the dispraxic guy at the start, said 'Eh, this ain't too bad'...and then lost it when they didn't bring it up for the entire rest of the episode. Still trepaditios about watching Episode 2. I think I have reason to be worried.

    Anyone wish that the people who wrote the Tom Baker era would come back with the budget of the revived doctor who to write great episodes? Hell, I'd take Moffat over this crap. At least he didn't pull demographic-pandering bull like Chibnall has subtly- but nonetheless- placed into the story.
    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 6 months ago #32 by Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny's Avatar


  • Posts: 1956

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • That's what the ladder speech was about in episode 2, and his hesitancy on the crane ladder in episode 1. If you establish a thing, you don't have to outright say it over and over, just make an indication that it's there in some form.
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    6 years 6 months ago #33 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • mhalpern wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Kristin Darken wrote: Heh. Balancing the exposition between episode and season writing... harder than you might think. Right Gen 2 authors? :P


    What I see is a poorly written first episode, and an even worse second one.

    I remain unconvinced that this is part of some secret seasonal masterplan.
    No matter what, your first episode should try to sparkle, or at the very least aspire to greatness, not aspire to mediocraty.

    The first two episodes had to focus on developing 4 characters, and they have done that pretty well


    No, it really didn't.
    It's not a new series, its been going for over 50 years.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 6 months ago #34 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • Astrodragon wrote:

    mhalpern wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Kristin Darken wrote: Heh. Balancing the exposition between episode and season writing... harder than you might think. Right Gen 2 authors? :P


    What I see is a poorly written first episode, and an even worse second one.

    I remain unconvinced that this is part of some secret seasonal masterplan.
    No matter what, your first episode should try to sparkle, or at the very least aspire to greatness, not aspire to mediocraty.

    The first two episodes had to focus on developing 4 characters, and they have done that pretty well


    No, it really didn't.
    It's not a new series, its been going for over 50 years.

    And this season is looking structured to bring in new audiences, which with such a long running series is needed from time to time, and Dr Who usually does it in a doctor's first season. But the Doctor and her 3 compamions are essentially new characters
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #35 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • CrazyMinh wrote: Hey kids, wanna hear some EVEN worse news???

    ...

    ...

    Eh???

    Stuff it, dropping the imitation. No one will get it anyway. <ahem>

    The bad news is that my friend (who's dyspraxic) watched the bit with the dispraxic guy at the start, said 'Eh, this ain't too bad'...and then lost it when they didn't bring it up for the entire rest of the episode. Still trepaditios about watching Episode 2. I think I have reason to be worried.

    Anyone wish that the people who wrote the Tom Baker era would come back with the budget of the revived doctor who to write great episodes? Hell, I'd take Moffat over this crap. At least he didn't pull demographic-pandering bull like Chibnall has subtly- but nonetheless- placed into the story.

    The bit about the ladders and Ryan tripping while trying to avoid being flattened by the ship.
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #36 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • mhalpern wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    mhalpern wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Kristin Darken wrote: Heh. Balancing the exposition between episode and season writing... harder than you might think. Right Gen 2 authors? :P


    What I see is a poorly written first episode, and an even worse second one.

    I remain unconvinced that this is part of some secret seasonal masterplan.
    No matter what, your first episode should try to sparkle, or at the very least aspire to greatness, not aspire to mediocraty.

    The first two episodes had to focus on developing 4 characters, and they have done that pretty well


    No, it really didn't.
    It's not a new series, its been going for over 50 years.

    And this season is looking structured to bring in new audiences, which with such a long running series is needed from time to time, and Dr Who usually does it in a doctor's first season. But the Doctor and her 3 compamions are essentially new characters


    You see, that is the problem the BBC has made up.
    When you have a long standing and large audience, the LAST thing you want to do is annoy them in the hope of getting some mythical new audience. All that does is lose your old audience without replacing them.
    And its not the female doctor issue - very few people complained about that.
    Its the generic rubbish plotting seen so far.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 6 months ago #37 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964

    • Astrodragon wrote: You see, that is the problem the BBC has made up.
    When you have a long standing and large audience, the LAST thing you want to do is annoy them in the hope of getting some mythical new audience. All that does is lose your old audience without replacing them.
    And its not the female doctor issue - very few people complained about that.
    Its the generic rubbish plotting seen so far.


    The strategy's worked for Marvel Comics so far, if you ignore the plummeting sales.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 6 months ago #38 by JG
    • JG
    • JG's Avatar


  • Posts: 1454

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • The people who are offended by a female doctor are the ones no one gives a shit about anyway.

    but lets be fair, good writing in Dr. Who, which has notoriously bonkers plots, would be harder than it sounds
    6 years 6 months ago #39 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • null0trooper wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote: You see, that is the problem the BBC has made up.
    When you have a long standing and large audience, the LAST thing you want to do is annoy them in the hope of getting some mythical new audience. All that does is lose your old audience without replacing them.
    And its not the female doctor issue - very few people complained about that.
    Its the generic rubbish plotting seen so far.


    The strategy's worked for Marvel Comics so far, if you ignore the plummeting sales.

    there's a limit to how frequently you can do it, besides it's not like it's a total reboot, like Marvel has done several times.
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 6 months ago #40 by Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee
    • Sir Lee's Avatar


  • Posts: 3113

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 08 Nov 1966
    • I think you are thinking of DC Comics, which has done, what, at least four "hard" reboots since the Eighties? (Crisis, Zero Hour, New 52 and whatever they are calling the undoing of the New 52)

    Marvel has gone more for "soft" reboots in which large parts of a character's story are retconned but they keep the appearance of an unbroken continuity. That, and starting new parallel universes (Ultimate, Marvel Cinematic Universe) which are about the same but rebooted to a new timeframe. Or comic lines which are allegedly in the same continuity as the main Marvel Universe, but sometime in the future (MC2, Marvel 2099).

    Hmmm, when I think about it... when you include the various universes which got absorbed into the Marvel U (Ultraverse, New Universe) Marvel is pretty much in the same mess that DC was back in the 80's. Maybe they really need a hard reboot...
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 6 months ago #41 by MageOhki
    • MageOhki
    • MageOhki's Avatar


  • Posts: 548

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Eh, Ultraverse pretty much *died*, new Universe also only took a few characters. Now, to be *fair*, I agree that Marvel *could* use a hard reboot. But, then again, my view of Marvel boils down to this: After 1993 "F*** off*, and any hope of getting *me* back, died between "No more Mutants" and "One More Day." (I'll admit, SpiderGwen *almost* did it, though. THAT was brilliant on their part)

    (As for Ultraverse, *that* pisses me off. THEY were well fucking ahead of the times.)
    6 years 6 months ago #42 by Kristin Darken
    • Kristin Darken
    • Kristin Darken's Avatar


  • Posts: 3898

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Malibu/Ultraverse was home of my first comic character success. They had a character creation contest that had the grand prize winner get a print issue, first place got a cameo, second got artwork and an appearance in Wizard magazine in the prize announcements, third got some swag... well, everyone got some swag. Anywho... my character, which placed second, was a non-adult/TG variant of the concept for Fling. She was an emotionally triggered Shifter with the ability to become the 'answer' to the emotional question. Around great fear, she could be an avatar of defense... around sorrow, she became a caretaker or healer. There was a native/shamanist aspect to the power and she could/did do shifts to animal forms and such as totemic representations but she had very little ability over the shift personally, it mostly triggered on need... and around people with high emotion, on the needs of others before her own.

    And then Marvel ate Malibu. So I got some swag and congratulation letters... but never saw an end result. I don't know if they managed to print any of the ideas/winners before they were absorbed or not. I still have my letter from them stored away somewhere.
    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 5 months ago #43 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar Topic Author


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Err...you mean ULTIMATE universe, right???

    ...whats 'Ultraverse?'

    ...wait no, forgot I was on a internet-capable computer, brb.
    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 5 months ago #44 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar Topic Author


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraverse

    Yep. Got it down now. Damm, that's sad.
    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 5 months ago #45 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Now THAT was an episode
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 5 months ago #46 by Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny's Avatar


  • Posts: 1956

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • That was an incredible episode. I have liked all three thus far, but that was the best of the three.
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #47 by Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny's Avatar


  • Posts: 1956

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • mhalpern wrote: Now THAT was an episode

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    I would say it's up there with Van Gogh as best appearance of a Historical Character.
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    Last Edit: 6 years 5 months ago by Rose Bunny.
    6 years 5 months ago #48 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • Rose Bunny wrote:

    mhalpern wrote: Now THAT was an episode

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    I would say it's up thee with Van Gogh as best appearance of a Historical Character.


    Yes but Van Gogh wasn't at a specific historical moment and about that point in time specifically,
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 5 months ago #49 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Sorry, but again unimpressed with episode 3.

    Was it a good time travel story? yes, but Dr Who isn't a time travel story.
    It was excruciatingly politically correct, which seems to be the new theme of the show

    But it wasn't Dr Who.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 5 months ago #50 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • Astrodragon wrote: Sorry, but again unimpressed with episode 3.

    Was it a good time travel story? yes, but Dr Who isn't a time travel story.
    It was excruciatingly politically correct, which seems to be the new theme of the show

    But it wasn't Dr Who.

    Actually it was, it felt like a modernized, cleaned up classic Who story, in fact this season has more call backs to classic who than any other New Who season
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 5 months ago #51 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • mhalpern wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote: Sorry, but again unimpressed with episode 3.

    Was it a good time travel story? yes, but Dr Who isn't a time travel story.
    It was excruciatingly politically correct, which seems to be the new theme of the show

    But it wasn't Dr Who.

    Actually it was, it felt like a modernized, cleaned up classic Who story, in fact this season has more call backs to classic who than any other New Who season


    As someone who's watched Dr Who ever since the first episode, no, it wasn't.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 5 months ago #52 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964

    • Astrodragon wrote:

    mhalpern wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote: Sorry, but again unimpressed with episode 3.

    Was it a good time travel story? yes, but Dr Who isn't a time travel story.
    It was excruciatingly politically correct, which seems to be the new theme of the show

    But it wasn't Dr Who.

    Actually it was, it felt like a modernized, cleaned up classic Who story, in fact this season has more call backs to classic who than any other New Who season


    As someone who's watched Dr Who ever since the first episode, no, it wasn't.


    How old are you? An Unearthly Child was aired almost a year before I was born!
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 5 months ago #53 by CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh
    • CrazyMinh's Avatar Topic Author


  • Posts: 758

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Eh, my Mum's in her 50's and she hasn't even watched the first episode...considering she was three at the time...and thus very uninterested
    You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .

    You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed


    6 years 5 months ago #54 by Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon
    • Astrodragon's Avatar


  • Posts: 1998

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • I'm 65 next month.
    Yeah, I'm the oldest writer here.
    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 5 months ago #55 by null0trooper
    • null0trooper
    • null0trooper's Avatar


  • Posts: 3032

  • Gender: Male
  • Birthdate: 19 Oct 1964

    • Astrodragon wrote: I'm 65 next month.
    Yeah, I'm the oldest writer here.


    You have to admit the alternatives aren't much fun!
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

    WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book

    Discussion Thread
    6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #56 by Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny
    • Rose Bunny's Avatar


  • Posts: 1956

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • There are ways to watch the classic episodes out there, I am very familiar with some of the earlier Doctors. I watched the old Doctors on PBS back in the day, and this summer the First 7 Doctors were run as a marathon on Twitch. My point is that you don't have to watch the old Doctors to know the new ones, and if you want to watch the old ones, there are always ways, even if you aren't old enough to have seen them in first run.
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    Last Edit: 6 years 5 months ago by Rose Bunny.
    6 years 5 months ago #57 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown

    • Rose Bunny wrote: There are ways to watch the classic episodes out there, I am very familiar with some of the earlier Doctors. I watched the old Doctors on PBS back in the day, and this summer the First 7 Doctors were run as a marathon on Twitch. My point is that you don't have to watch the old Doctors to know the new ones, and if you want to watch the old ones, there are always ways, even if you aren't old enough to have seen them in first run.

    at least most of them, a few episodes are still lost
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    6 years 5 months ago #58 by mhalpern
    • mhalpern
    • mhalpern's Avatar


  • Posts: 2026

  • Gender: Unknown
  • Birthdate: Unknown
    • Social commentary in this episode was great
    Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
    Moderators: WhateleyAdmin, Kristin Darken, E. E. Nalley, elrodw, Nagrij, MageOhki, Astrodragon, NeoMagus, Warren, Morpheus, Wasamon, sleethr, OtherEric, Bek D Corbin, MaLAguA, Souffle Girl, Phoenix Spiritus, Starwolf, DanZilla, Katie_Lyn, Maggie Finson, DrBender, JG, Bladedancer, Renae_Whateley
    Powered by Kunena Forum