Question The Force Awakens: Good Bad or WTF?
- DMCorp
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Topic Author
- Astrodragon
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I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
- Ametros
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Good action scenes - notable ones being the liftoff of the Millenium Falcon from Jakku, and the scene where Finn is watching that one X-Wing destroy Tie-Fighter after Tie-Fighter.
Gotta say though, I much preferred Kylo Ren with his helmet on, rather than off, likely in large part due to his tantrums.
Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
- Kristin Darken
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However, from a purely non-spoiler perspective, I went into things expecting to be able to respond on three separate levels:
1. Is "The Force Awakens" a good movie, leaving out preconceptions/lore/other movies, etc?
2. Is it a worthy successor to the original trilogy of movies?
3. Is it a good starting point for what is likely to be a new trilogy of movies?
And the answer to those three questions is a resounding yes. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. It was clearly a successor to the original trilogy, a space opera more focused on the hero's journey than on hard science or practical details. Are there some elements that I thought were flawed? Yes. While for the most part, they did a good job on the contemporary variation of the Force; it's clear that at least a few people on the team didn't quite get it. But it was close and there were some nice subtleties to it that have always been lacking in the movies and only really showed up well in the books.
There was some clever writing, and really solid character portrayal.
I can see where some people might be upset by certain events and use those to confirm a negative opinion of the film... but I would disagree with them.
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Kettlekorn
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- Valentine
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And on a scale of 1-10 with Vader being a 10, Kylo Ren is about a -3. He makes me miss whiny Anakin.
In the remastered version, Han stabs first.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- E M Pisek
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The characterization was good as with some outstanding special effects. I chuckled in a few spots. On of my only problems was with Kylo Ren. I'm sorry but I think he's better off with the helmet on as it made me wonder who's side of the family he took after. For the life of me I thought his head was so totally wrong.
Other than that I thought it was an enjoyable movie and me and my son debated the merits of the film. We both knew to agree to disagree. If possible I wouldn't mind seeing it again.
What is - was. What was - is.
- Valentine
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Ib12us wrote: Just saw Star Wars and I went in with an open mind. Hard to do given how I grew up with the original 3, discounting the last 3, wondering if I was going to see the development of another princess in the making.
The characterization was good as with some outstanding special effects. I chuckled in a few spots. On of my only problems was with Kylo Ren. I'm sorry but I think he's better off with the helmet on as it made me wonder who's side of the family he took after. For the life of me I thought his head was so totally wrong.
Other than that I thought it was an enjoyable movie and me and my son debated the merits of the film. We both knew to agree to disagree. If possible I wouldn't mind seeing it again.
Don't diss Darth Whiny, he'll come and whine at you, and maybe sparkle a little.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- E M Pisek
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Valentine wrote:
Ib12us wrote: Just saw Star Wars and I went in with an open mind. Hard to do given how I grew up with the original 3, discounting the last 3, wondering if I was going to see the development of another princess in the making.
The characterization was good as with some outstanding special effects. I chuckled in a few spots. On of my only problems was with Kylo Ren. I'm sorry but I think he's better off with the helmet on as it made me wonder who's side of the family he took after. For the life of me I thought his head was so totally wrong.
Other than that I thought it was an enjoyable movie and me and my son debated the merits of the film. We both knew to agree to disagree. If possible I wouldn't mind seeing it again.
Don't diss Darth Whiny, he'll come and whine at you, and maybe sparkle a little.
He can sparkle all he wants in that whinny voice, I got a care bear and a my little pony that sparkles to.

What is - was. What was - is.
- ~Archangel~
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Many people hear voices when no-one is there.
Some are called 'mad' and shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day.
Others are called 'writers' and they do pretty much the same thing.
-Ray Bradbury
- E M Pisek
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What is - was. What was - is.
- elrodw
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Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
- peter
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Ib12us wrote:
The characterization was good as with some outstanding special effects. I chuckled in a few spots. On of my only problems was with Kylo Ren. I'm sorry but I think he's better off with the helmet on as it made me wonder who's side of the family he took after. For the life of me I thought his head was so totally wrong.
Once he took off that helmet my first impression was of some suburban kid who expresses how horrible his life is by embracing the Goth culture. From that point on in every scene he was in I could not stop thinking of him lurking in a bedroom that had been painted all black, with the wall covered in nihilistic posters. While just outside the door the house is brightly lit and mom is baking cookies
- E M Pisek
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What is - was. What was - is.
- Sir Lee
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Also, the parallels to the other two trilogies are just too numerous to list. Let me see a few...
Orphan? Check.
Daddy issues? Check
Someone came to seen as a father figure slain by villain? Check.
Huge-ass Big Weapon attacked by small fighters? Check.
Mysterious evil mentor lurking in the shadows? Check.
Cute non-humanoid droid entrusted with vital intel? Check.
And two ridiculous theories still look good enough:
1. BB-8 is R2D2 and the Death Star's love child;
2. There's some wiseass Brazilian guy in Lucasfilm charged with coming up with the names of the places and people.
- E M Pisek
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Sir Lee wrote: I finally went to see it yesterday (took my nephews). The twelve-year-old pointed out that, despite Kylo Ren being allegedly weaker than Darth Vader (and insecure of ever equaling his grandfather), he did some stuff that we had never seen other Force-wielders do.
And two ridiculous theories still look good enough:
1. BB-8 is R2D2 and the Death Star's love child;
Not true. He fell in love with a coffee pot while on lunch back in Return of the Jedi. He also borrowed some of C3PO's parts as with a bowling ball.
What is - was. What was - is.
- Arcanist Lupus
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Well, Kylo Ren is supposed to be a Vader wannabe. So it's kind of deliberate that he's not as scary as Vader. Doesn't make it a good thing, but Kylo isn't supposed to be the standard we use to measure this trilogy's villains - his master (whose name I forget) is. And we haven't seen enough of his master to judge how effective he'll be.~Archangel~ wrote: It's odd every bad guy in other Star Wars films fails in comparison to Darth Vader. Even the Emperor was not as scary-awesome as Vader. What made Darth Vader such a awesome villain?
I think that if they're smart, they'll borrow a little bit of Thrawn* for him, rather than trying to make him a Palpatine clone. But only time will tell.
*For those unfamiliar with the extended universe, Thrawn is a humanoid alien who rose to the rank of Grand Admiral in the xenophobic Empire through shear badass military genius.
"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
- Kristin Darken
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Indeed, he's more of a tragic figure than the villain. A Snape. Or maybe Draco Malfoy.Arcanist Lupus wrote: Well, Kylo Ren is supposed to be a Vader wannabe. So it's kind of deliberate that he's not as scary as Vader. Doesn't make it a good thing, but Kylo isn't supposed to be the standard we use to measure this trilogy's villains - his master (whose name I forget) is. And we haven't seen enough of his master to judge how effective he'll be.
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- E M Pisek
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What is - was. What was - is.
- Greatdingo
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It had pretty much everything I was looking for in a new Star Wars movie...
Except one, all-important thing.
I liked Rey and Finn, especially Rey, she was pretty darn badass.
Finn was a cool newbie hero and Poe was just awesome.
Han Solo and Chewie were great, and Ford certainly delivered. But I honestly cared more about the new characters. I didn't care all that much about Leia, but then again, I never really did, so that's not something that ruins anything for me.
No, what I, sadly, did not experience, was the "Star Wars magic". I remember when I saw the OT special editions in the theater (born in 81, so didn't get to see them in the theater before special edition) I just got this huge rush type feeling all the way down in my stomach. I'm talking butterflies, giddyness, the giggles, the whole shabang!
I didn't feel the same way with this movie. It was good, I liked it, but it just didn't feel like it used to feel.
- FiddlerFox
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I very much enjoyed the new film. I will say there were moments of sadness and "Nerd-rage" with hordes of moments of awesomeness. The Nerd-rage wasn't even because they got something "wrong," it's because I was moved. There was a story crafted, and it evoked an emotional response because of my care and investment in the characters and situations involved with that story. I will also say that I am "all in" on seeing this new series of movies and new characters. A great many things were done right, and while some decisions are/were controversial I can see exactly why they were made and even kind of agree with them. It is not a hard Sci-fi film, but in my opinion Star Wars never was. I view it as a Space Opera/Morality story similar in vein to ancient Greek Myths or "comic book heroes." It is a story of choices, morals, drama, good vs evil, classic story forms and myths. It is obviously a set up to films coming after it in that they left many teasers and story elements hinted at but not revealed, but I would have been disappointed had they revealed all their cards on the first go.
I am pleased in that they did NOT go the route of the newer Hobbit movies with the too-many-frame-rate-moving-camera-makes-people-puke issues. My wife and I watched it without drinks or snacks and in standard D (as opposed to 3D) as 3D movies make my wife hurl and we refused to miss "The Wars" due to puke or potty breaks. We figured we would give the first one a go in theatres and then decide if we were seeing the follow ups on the big screen, waiting for DVDs, etc. We do not regret seeing it in the theatre, and we will be seeing the following films in the theatre as well.
I also enjoyed a great many of the shots film wise. My personal favorite is actually the scene just after having come back from the "save the galaxy" mission at the end where there is very much a massive dichotomy between the action on the left half and the right half of the screen, complete with large amounts of physical distance between what's going on. I thought that shot was brilliant and spoke in many ways more than words really could. There were moments of "Oh this can't turn out well" where it wasn't incredibly difficult to spot but was still done well.
In short, I have to laugh at things like a Simpsons reference of "Star Wars VII: The Apology" which were poked in good fun but are kind of true. This is a good movie and it is worth seeing. Go in with an open mind and enjoy the story that is being told. We all knew it's going to have a series of "passing the torch" moments so just go with it. The story and characters are good and solid, they are very very likable, and I look forward to what will come with this new story.
"Uh-oh." "Don't tell me - we're about to go over a huge waterfall." "Yup." "Sharp rocks at the bottom?" "Most likely." "Bring it on."
BBOOOOOOOOYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
- Valentine
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I have to agree with Greatdingo, there was no pop. In 1977 Star Wars changed movie making, this was just another good scifi movie.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- Kristin Darken
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So, expecting to have that sort of reaction to a movie now compared to in your childhood? It's possible... but it would have to have a huge impact on you to get the same result.
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Dawnfyre
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1) the trilogy will be completely separate from the extended universe by plan.
2) Disney signed an agreement to not go the cgi route for the trilogy, instead to use the prop style Lucasfilm did with the original trilogy.
( both points from the trivia )
I think Darth Vader's impact was also caused in part by his voice. The voice of the character increased the impact of the outfit and actions, a less impressive tone would have ruined the characters portrayal.
I read the original novel on a 747 headed to Hawaii for Christmas, in 1974, the first trip there.
Stupidity is a capitol offense, a summary not indictable one.
- Sir Lee
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Almost forty years later... my opinion didn't change very much. Star Wars is fun, but has not a lot of substance.
- Kristin Darken
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Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Valentine
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Don't Drick and Drive.
- Greatdingo
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Kristin Darken wrote: Sadly, I think you are looking for something that you will not experience as an adult.
The thing is, when I watched the Special Edition in the theater I was already an adult(ish) It was during my year in the military. I had already seen Star Wars several times on VHS before that. But the rush, the pop, the magic, it didn't register with me until I saw it on the big screen.
Certainly didn't register with the prequels, at all. And I had even seen Phantom Menace on the big screen before I saw the Special Edition.
- ~Archangel~
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Like Sir Lee I was more of a hard Sci-Fi type, I was reading Starship Troopers in Grade 5, and that cemented my love of Heinlein from there it was Clarke and Asimov. However 'The Empire Strikes Back' I loved because the good guys didn't win. That opened my eyes to the whole sometimes it's better story if the hero(es) lose.
Since then my reading habits have wandered into Fantasy of various flavours, Cyberpunk, back to Sci-Fi hard and others, history and modern thrillers. But Star Wars has a place in my heart, for the big brash event that it was.
Now the 'Phantom Menace' and 'Attack of the Clones' should taken out back, tied to a pine tree, smeared with jelly, and have pine cones thrown at them until rabid zombie squirrels and radioactive ants devour them. The only good thing about that waste of time that I can say, is that it was better than 'Hudson Hawk', 'Highlander 2' and 'The 5th Element'.
Many people hear voices when no-one is there.
Some are called 'mad' and shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day.
Others are called 'writers' and they do pretty much the same thing.
-Ray Bradbury
- rubberjohn
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Back in 1977 I saw the first Star Wars, now called Episode 4 - A New Hope, in a cinema with some friends while on holiday in Cornwall. At the time the benchmark for Sci-Fi film special effects was probably 2001 - A Space Odyssey. We'd all heard of the rave reviews sweeping Britain, and the world, about the new film but didn't really know what to expect. I clearly remember being quite impressed when Princess Leia's ship drove diagonally down the screen but just about everyone in the cinema ducked as the Imperial Star Destroyer followed it into view and just kept on coming and coming and coming! I'd never seen anything so huge on screen before!
That one sequence set the tone for the whole film for me and it was only afterwards that I started asking myself just How Did They Do That? Of course in the years since the film's release there have been several documentaries that have explained that question for all the first trilogy of films. While I can't remember where I first saw the other two films I do remember being happily entertained by all three, even while I was quite willing to admit that the story wasn't very deep, they were just so very entertaining.
Later I watched the first film of the second batch expecting to have that experience repeated only to find that, even with the advent of greatly advanced computer graphics, the film left me feeling flat. Hoping it was just a one-off bad film, which can happen to any film maker, I watched the second film only to find that it was no better. I never watched the third film of the second batch. Moreover I have since watched the re-mastered versions of the original three films - the versions where modern computer graphics have been used to 'enhance' some of the original scenes by sticking more bodies into the scenes and, I'm sad to say, I found that the new, improved version lacked something from the original.
Perhaps surprisingly, I find that the modern Computer Graphics, which have swept through the film industry - often to great effect, just don't have the same effectiveness in the Star Wars universe as did the original effects, which were the cutting edge of their day. Maybe the significant improvement in special effects over the years which are now seen everyday on television and in cinema have left me jaded when compared to the huge step forward that Star Wars represented at the time.
When you combine this viewpoint with my distrust of any film which the film makers feel the need to hype to the extent that has happened with Star Wars 7, it is perhaps understandable that I will not be in any hurry to pay through the nose to see the film in the cinema. I can easily wait until it becomes available on DVD!
John.
- Kristin Darken
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The difference between having six months of post-production time while the film is in the can that you can tailor build sound to... versus having only three weeks of time where you even have the actors in rehearsal, let alone performing off book with some semblance of character, emotion, tempo, and so forth before technical rehearsals make you choose what to use and then there are audience in the seats.
That doesn't begin to touch on the cost of equipment in this era of lack of support/patronage for the arts. We had a patron walk up to our Producing Director in the previews of our holiday musical and tell him that we need to buy new sound equipment. Like that was something that we could just casually walk down the street, pull out a credit card, and do on the spur of the moment. I'll be the first to admit our wireless microphone system is 'cheap' ... it's not the absolute lowest end equipment out there, but its generally not considered pro audio gear by anyone other than high school kids forming a band in someone's basement or churches set up in those pre-fab metal warehouse buildings. A good set of microphones of the sort that might be found in a high end theatre would cost us more than the entire box office take of our holiday show. And that's JUST the mics.
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- FiddlerFox
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It's beginning to do this in all the performing arts. Computers and superior technology is a double edged sword, and sometimes well.. lets say that I don't always agree that newer or more modern means better. Perhaps being a performer has helped my viewing of movies and let me be a bit more allowing of oopsies or imperfections than others. It's hard to say.
"Uh-oh." "Don't tell me - we're about to go over a huge waterfall." "Yup." "Sharp rocks at the bottom?" "Most likely." "Bring it on."
BBOOOOOOOOYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
- E. E. Nalley
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In May 1977, as a newly minted seven-year-old, I saw Star Wars at Georgia's own Storey Theater Company (since bought out by Regal Entertainment Group) Shannon Eight theater. I saw it on opening day and it's the first movie that I can remember going to see. Let us also not forget that Star Wars was the first picture presented in Dolby sound. When that star destroyer came over my head and I felt the rumble of it in the pit of my stomach my life was changed. It was one of those pivotal moments that you often see in movies or read about in stories, Star Wars was as close to perfection I felt then as could be had. It would be many years until I started seeing the flaws in Star Wars.
Before we go on, it's worth noting some of those flaws again so as to have a common frame of reference.
1) Pacing. What opens as a fast-paced chase sequence, spins into the escape of the droids and the hunt for them by the storm troopers, then takes a left turn at American Graffiti and crashes headlong in to teenage angst. The second reel Star Wars is horribly paced. The introduction of characters that should happen, such as Biggs, are cut, whereas mentions of Luke's father and the mysterious Ben Kenobi are done and overdone slowing the pacing. Although credit must be given to the actors who played Owen Lars and Beru Lars who with nothing but vague dialogue to go with managed to sell this mysterious back story we wouldn't know for years.
2) Stupid Ball. In what is perhaps the most monumentally and incredibly stupid decisions in the history of rebellions, certain that her ship is being tracked by a weapon that is capable of destroying an entire planet, Princess Leia "Glory Hog" Orgena leads the Empire directly to the headquarters base of the rebellion. She doesn't arrange for a rendezvous in space doesn't transmit the plans, or even direct the Millennium Falcon to a planet where she could disappear that is too important for Gov. Tarken to just blow up, Corusant for example; no she goes right to Yavin Four.
3) Nitpicks. As with any production along this size they're going to be goofs and flaws throughout. The storm trooper banging his head on the door, the power cord for Obi-Wans light saber going Up his sleeve, and of course directors who can't leave well enough alone or sleep at night realizing that they made a hero out of a murderous drug smuggler. Any film is going to have these so I won't dwell on them too much.
That said Star Wars shines because it is such a perfect blending of myth and the heroes journey while stealing imagery from a number of greater films that perhaps didn't have as much play in the United States. Lucas even now admits that he lifted large portions of Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress and of course the trench run come straight out of World War II's The Dam Busters. After years of terrible quote experimental unquote disco soundtracks Lucas also made the decision to go back to orchestral arrangements as 2001 had and hired John Williams to produce a score. I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that Star Wars would be half the movie it is now if it had a funk guitar soundtrack like something out of a porno movie.
So in light of that let's take a look at The Force Awakens. I put what I found good and likable about the movie out in the open and I'll try to keep my finger waving nitpicks behind the spoiler. Watching this movie felt like watching a Star Wars movie again. In a way that the prequel's very much did not. And while this feels like a much smaller film, and if the prequel did anything right they successfully portrayed these were big doings in a big scope. But Star Wars when you get down to it was a pretty small and intimate film. The vast majority of it takes place on the sound stage; it doesn't feel small because the sets are so perfect and elaborate. That's where the prequel's went astray. There was so much green screen that even the actors had no idea what they were looking at and that came across in their performances. They even complain about it bitterly in the makings of documentaries. Having real sets with real props to bang your hand on helps the actors sell things that they may not themselves by into.
One of my favorite quote from Sir Alec Guinness goes along the lines of, "you know I really don't understand what all the fuss is about with this film, but as an entertainer if young people are amused that's what I'm in this business for."
I've been a Han Solo fan boy since 1977 so I was thrilled to see him in action again. Harrison Ford is due a lot of credit on the screen was Han Solo, old Han Solo, but not old Harrison Ford trying to be Han Solo. If you understand that last sentence you get what I'm talking about. The pacing in this movie was quite good in the movie just flowed by, perhaps even just a tad too quick but that a nitpick. I didn't have to suffer through an episode of C-SPAN covering the Galactic Senate and by and large I cared about the people I did see. One of the best reviews that I have seen, and it had quite a bit of negative things to say, was that if the reviewer came out of the theater and episode eight was playing in the adjacent theater he would've walked right in without a pause. And so would I.
And now we get into the meat of what I meant to talk about which is going to go behind the spoiler tag.
Max von Sydow is one of the great living treasures of our era. I was really disappointed to see him die in the first five minutes. I can understand as he's getting up in years if he wasn't physically able to do a larger part, in which case I think I would've cast someone else. If you're going to give an actor of that caliber such a small role it should be pivotal, a plot point should hinge on it, it just felt so wasted.
I probably about to piss a lot of people off, but there really is no way around this.
Rei is a God mode Mary Sue.
Now you all know the exception of which the authors, myself included, take about that particular phrase so you understand that I don't use it lightly. There really is no other way to put it. Were introduced to a scavenger, who is evidently living on the edge of starvation, and that she knew a lot about the Millennium Falcon I could buy into based on that information. There's no basis for her to be a pilot, until she needs to be and so she is one. And she's such a great pilot she can pull off what we see her pull off. We're told in the original Star Wars that Luke is a great pilot by Obi-Wan in the desert, by Luke himself in the cantina, by Biggs in the hangar all before we see Luke put in a moderately okay performance as a pilot in the attack on the Death Star. Recall that two other pilots have to save him into separate situations.
Likewise there's no indication that Rei is a force user until she needs to be and so she is one. And she's such a great force user that she can be a Jedi mind tricks as an afterthought, she can have a moment of clarity and beat up trained not Sith Lords or whatever it was that Kylo was supposed to be, with a weapon that she didn't want to ever touch again.
There's no reason for Chewbacca or Leia to accept her into their confidence other than plot so so and so she is.
I'm really hoping a lot of this is going to be explained in the next movie, that said I shouldn't have to wait for the next movie to explain what's going on in this one.
By contrast the character of Finn is a study of missed opportunities. What interesting characterization could come out of delving into why a storm trooper would turn his back on everything he believes in what his motivations could've been, and what could have led him to choose a different path. Finn himself points out, "you don't know a thing about me," and he is right, we don't. And that's a shame.
Ben Solo. I can't decide if I dislike this character as much as I dislike Jar Jar Binks. He strikes me as a whiny millennial's had everything given to him except discipline. He wasn't so bad as Kylo Ren, the mask gave him some elements of menace. He certainly no Darth Vader and he knows it but I haven't made up my mind as to why JJ would do that. I guess we'll call this the jury is still out.
The less said about the rolly balls of raptor death the better. In my humble opinion this was the films lowest point. It failed on every level. The CGI was bad the reasons for it only attacking Han Solo's enemies was bad and God mode Sue letting them out was even worse.
I was afraid about the middle of the movie that Han was going to die. Harrison Ford is made no secret of the fact that he one has wanted out of the role since the 80s. I give him credit for sending off the role as well as he did. But as soon as he and Kylo were on the same set I knew what was going to happen. I can't blame JJ Abrams for that, because big chunks of that come from my knowledge of Harrison Ford's feelings. That's outside the realm of the story and so I don't hold that against him. Still hated to see it happen.
STAR Killer base: why? Third times the charm? Bigger is better? Or can the Empire just really not learn?
Or is JJ Abrams just a really lazy director and is just retelling the same stories over and over?
So those are my thoughts, good and bad. Your mileage may vary. I will go see episode eight, and Rogue One because I really love this universe and I'm really hoping that it's in the hands of people who love it as much as I do. And I hope it keeps feeling like Star Wars the way this movie did, because my nitpicks aside, I felt like I was in Star Wars movie again and that the best thing I can say about it.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
- Valentine
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E. E. Nalley wrote: Having real sets with real props to bang your
hand onhead into helps the actors sell things that they may not themselves by into.
I fixed that for you.

I agree with most of what you have written. The biggest difference is that I like Jar Jar, and Darth Whiny needs to die. Then again Jar Jar is the only character from parts I-III that I really liked.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- E M Pisek
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The points that he brought up were some of the points me and my son had. I won't go into to much detail except that in some areas I found it to be a bit over the top.
J.J. Abrams, to me, has a tendency to go for to much flash and he likes to keep things a secret needlessly. He's more of a P.T. Barnum in that respect. Tantalizes the audiences expectations and then once the show is over, they find how they were taken. Not badly but fooled by their own desire for something that really wasn't much.
As for Rei, I personally did see her as being so knowledgeable. She, as I think about it now, suddenly knew more about the Millennium Falcon than Han Solo did. It was like old age was setting in on him. She knew exactly where to go to repair the ship when in hyper drive, without even leaving the cockpit, whereas Hans just seemed to be befuddled. This wasn't the Hans I remembered back in the day.
Overall Mr. Abrams put the action back into Star Wars that its own creator nearly destroyed. The problem is he foregoes much of the plot for the sake of moving the story along. I was so engrossed within the movie that if they made it 15, 20 or even 30 minutes longer to explain some things I wouldn't have noticed. It wasn't till after I left that I came up wondering.
And as for Rei being a Mary Sue, I think that he went to far of left field. Her she is on a planet left to the care of others, sold into slavery for that's what it was and she comes out somewhat better for it. Why do we need the rest of the actors when she can do it all herself. Just put her in and she'll suddenly have the knowledge of what to do.
If they ever write a book about this, I would surely hope that the writers would include a lot more detail on the how and why. Of course this is going to be a trilogy and as one director leaves we have to hope that explanations are forthcoming. But from what I've read (if its to be believed) I can expect it not to happen.
What is - was. What was - is.
- FiddlerFox
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Rei apparently built her speeder herself from scavenged parts over the fifteen-ish years she'd been raiding things in the junkyard that is Jakku. Would have been useful to know. Like the flight simulator she found on a scavenging trip and set up in her downed AT-AT for entertainment. Minor detail that mighta been nice on film and only would have taken say thirty seconds of screen time to show. She did say she'd been inside the Falcon a few times and that she had knowledge of some of the new modifications that were put in while it was on Jakku, such as the compressor thing which leads one to believe she either helped put those modifications in or found out about them. Apparently there's a history with her and the junkyard dealer which is glossed over in the film as well. I can see where E.E. Nalley is coming from with his opinions.
I do see flaws in Rei's character as well though that do balance some of the issues. Yes she's a pivotal plot point and has abilities to keep things going. It is a shame that the explaination for these abilities isn't given on film but in supporting documentation. She is also independant to a point of fault, very inexperienced with the larger world ("I didn't think there was this much green in the whole universe") and lacking a bit in things such as diplomacy, experience, and people skills. Her affinity for things does seem to want to establish that she's a person with a great amount of innate power and force skills which does make us wonder what the backstory is exactly, so it's almost a case of how they told it as opposed to what they told.
In her defense with the fight scene with Kylo Ren, we also must remember Ren started that injured. He was shot by Chewbacca with a bowcaster, and hit on the shoulder by Finn with a lightsaber. We're reminded by this when he's thumping himself out of whatever mental rage place he's in and blood falls onto the snow. Rey was also established as a pretty good fighter on Jakku with her staff and used similar motions in her use of a lightsaber. Granted Rey was also Force pushed into a tree, so...
I personally really liked her character, but I can see where and why she would set some folks teeth on edge.
EDIT: I thought of a much better way of trying to phrase what I was trying to get at without sounding all garbled. Ahem... I don't think it's a case of what's on the "character sheets" of the characters, so much as how they chose to reveal what is on them when and how they did. If I summed up Rey as "she's naturally gifted with piloting and mechanics, and can hold her own in a fight because she grew up alone on a rough and tumble planet. She's got a strong aptitude in the Force from an unknown birthright" that doesn't look that bad balance-wise. I think part of it is the lack of additional information that aught to have been in the movie, but instead was in side material or novelization but not on film. By revealing it when they did when it's suddenly applicable or almost as needed, it comes across very differently. It's something I'm going to take away from watching the movie with to try and remember to avoid when writing. If you know that it's on the sheet, but it's only revealed when it suddenly saves the day, it comes across as you giving them something just to save the day.
"Uh-oh." "Don't tell me - we're about to go over a huge waterfall." "Yup." "Sharp rocks at the bottom?" "Most likely." "Bring it on."
BBOOOOOOOOYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
- rubberjohn
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When you hear people commenting that they hope so and so is explained in the following movie you know that critical stuff was either never included in production or was chopped out in the cutting room. Whether that's due to bad writing, poor planning or studio concerns is another matter. At least nothing I've read here has caused me to change my mind about waiting for the DVD release.
John.
- Valentine
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Don't Drick and Drive.
- Kristin Darken
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I did see it in 3D and while I often find the 3D effects handled poorly, they did do a good job with it here. A lot of that is best seen in what they did with the blaster technology and the physical impacts went a long way to solving the old 'why do the stormtroopers always miss' issue. That being that there are huge physical feedback elements on both ends of a blaster bolt. So you can't just line up on a target and just keep firing until your beam is on target... there's a significant kick involved in firing one. And a huge one in taking the hit, not just the 'burn' damage of a laser hit. Watching pistol sized blasters tossing people around physically was pretty cool.
And the vibroswords and melee energy weapons were good to see too. They've always been part of the lore, just didn't really make it on screen... but seeing them in use makes it far more believable that someone could pick up a light saber and use it effectively without having the whole Jedi training history.
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Arcanist Lupus
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Finn's competence with a lightsaber (I did think he looked like he was flailing, but he managed to not bisect himself, which is impressive) could come from training with the riot baton thing. Also there's no evidence so far that he isn't force sensitive.
Rei's competence with the force comes after accidentally invading Kylo Ren's mind - maybe that gave her some knowledge of how to use the force? Also, she is shown to be a staff fighter, so that probably helped her swordfighting too.
I liked Force Awakens, but I'm reserving judgement. It so closely mirrors the original that how well the sequels subvert the path followed by the first trilogy will make or break the film.
Leia's a strong enough force user that she probably sensed subconsciously that Rei is related to her. (I'm assuming that Rei is Luke's daughter or close relative, even if it hasn't been confirmed yet.)
"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
- elrodw
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In the original (A New Hope), Luke had to learn and he was fallible. The descriptions I've seen so far show her as too good with no learning-curve.
I'm in no rush to see it.
There. I said it.
Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
- Kristin Darken
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elrodw wrote: The descriptions I've seen of Rei compare her to a full-blown, unabashed Mary-Sue - knowing how to do Jedi force stuff without even knowing that there WAS a Force - knowing the Millenium Falcon better than Han, being good at everything she does, etc.
To be fair, the sort of things she does with the Force are natural force sensitive things. Young children manifesting the Force lift objects and have visions through the Force. The Jedi training helps make those things reliable but mostly it teaches mindset/philosophy that keeps the Jedi within the Light, in control of their emotions, and open to the Force. Most of what Luke had to learn was how to get out of his own way... he was a rebellious teen who wanted bigger things than to live on a small desert planet, he had a lot of ego (especially about his piloting skills), and emotionally he was 'always' closer to the Dark side than the Jedi would typically train. Also remember that the Force itself works to keeping a balance... when the Sith went from being a large number to the Rule of Two, the balance had to be restored and the Jedi were wiped out and all that was left was one Master to teach one young Knight (Luke).
So there's nothing wrong with Rei being inherently effective with the Force... she's actually lived almost the ideal life of the Jedi. A hard hermit's life barely surviving, relying on her understanding of the world around her to just to get by. And unlike Luke who can't believe that he's got these abilities, when she realizes it is available to her... she opens herself to it. The only time she 'denies' it is the vision with the lightsaber that shows her its past, and given all the evil and Darkness that Luke went through... it's not hard to understand why she might be upset by getting hit by it all at once.
The piloting skills? Yes, I thought that was a bit much ... fly it yes? Fly the Falcon without any experience in a dogfight? Hmm... that's a bit harder to buy. Although learning engineering/maint/piloting from training modules she's scavenged over the years is the probable explanation... the extreme competence was a strain. On the other hand, the X-Wing pilot who owned BB was still better than she was.
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- FiddlerFox
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In say, D&D terms, she strikes me as a level 1 to 3 PC with really good attribute rolls but little actual applicable experience. At the beginning she's decidedly better than the npcs, but she's still green around the edges. I really did notice during the flight scene and it wasn't until I went back and thought about it that I realized what was bugging me was that she flew the Falcon well, but wrong. Over maneuvering as opposed to Han's much smoother flights in the original trilogy. It's subtle, but it was there for me.
"Uh-oh." "Don't tell me - we're about to go over a huge waterfall." "Yup." "Sharp rocks at the bottom?" "Most likely." "Bring it on."
BBOOOOOOOOYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
- mittfh
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Six word plot: New characters search for old character.
(As there's quite a few to choose from on each side of the equation, that's probably not very spoilery)
Meanwhile, the First Order seem to have considerably more resources than the Empire - this time, turning an entire planet into an even more improbable superweapon than the Death Stars... but still build in stupid critical flaws, such as a single shield generator complex that's on the surface rather than several hundred metres underground (haven't they heard of redundant systems yet?!)
Oh, then the maps. It's awfully convenient that the Death Star R2 extracted the maps from had a small section missing - a section that happens to be where the last remaining Jedi has camped out...
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
- Sir Lee
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Actually, no, I disagree with that. I think it's pretty evident that Luke deliberately made it that way. My guess is it went somewhat like this:mittfh wrote: Oh, then the maps. It's awfully convenient that the Death Star R2 extracted the maps from had a small section missing - a section that happens to be where the last remaining Jedi has camped out...
- Luke chooses a little-explored part of the galaxy to disappear in.
- He *deletes* that part of the galaxy from the full map, entrusts the map to R2 and instructs him to only reveal it when the missing part is brought to Leia (he trusts Leia to only look for him if she really needs him).
- When he decides where his hiding place is going to be, he traces it to the map and entrusts it to someone -- perhaps several someones -- so Leia can find it if she wants to. He doesn't care if the final part of the map falls in the wrong hands, because he likely introduced enough unimportant errors to make it really hard to match it to other maps -- that is, he made sure it is useless without the first part that R2 has.
I remember seeing something like this in an old Donald Duck comic -- a treasure map where the really important part was cut out and hid separately. Having only the inner part of the map wasn't any help because you didn't know in which of the dozens of small islands of the Caribbean you had to follow the instructions; the outer part only gave you an island, not where to dig.
- Valentine
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As for Finn and Rei dueling with Darth Whiny. The best swordsman in the world doesn't fear the second best swordsman, he does fear the lucky guy that just picked one up.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- E M Pisek
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Are they so behind on some things? I understand the plot device, but common Intel isn't that dumb else they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did.
What is - was. What was - is.
- DanZilla
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I think, from my reading here and elsewhere online, it was probably edited down too much but I can see how that would be a difficult thing to not do to make sure the balance and pacing worked for the general audience and children.