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Question The Force Awakens: Good Bad or WTF?

9 years 4 months ago #1 by DMCorp
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  • Post here your comments on The Force Awakens. Warning Spoilers may happen if you haven't seen it. Was it Good? Bad? Or are you saying to your self WTF? did I just see?
    9 years 4 months ago #2 by Astrodragon
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  • The exploding Wookie was fun.

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    9 years 4 months ago #3 by Ametros
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  • I've just arrived home from watching it, so this is all pretty fresh.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
    9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #4 by Kristin Darken
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  • I will wait a little while before I post my real thoughts on things, because to adequately discuss a movie... you have to be able to describe events in it, and I'd prefer to avoid spoilers this early in the release.

    However, from a purely non-spoiler perspective, I went into things expecting to be able to respond on three separate levels:

    1. Is "The Force Awakens" a good movie, leaving out preconceptions/lore/other movies, etc?
    2. Is it a worthy successor to the original trilogy of movies?
    3. Is it a good starting point for what is likely to be a new trilogy of movies?

    And the answer to those three questions is a resounding yes. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. It was clearly a successor to the original trilogy, a space opera more focused on the hero's journey than on hard science or practical details. Are there some elements that I thought were flawed? Yes. While for the most part, they did a good job on the contemporary variation of the Force; it's clear that at least a few people on the team didn't quite get it. But it was close and there were some nice subtleties to it that have always been lacking in the movies and only really showed up well in the books.

    There was some clever writing, and really solid character portrayal.

    I can see where some people might be upset by certain events and use those to confirm a negative opinion of the film... but I would disagree with them.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    Last Edit: 9 years 4 months ago by Kristin Darken.
    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #5 by Kettlekorn
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  • I think this was the most fun of the Star Wars movies. I wasn't impressed by the plot and I have a few gripes that basically boil down to "It's not hard-SF", but I enjoyed the characters enough to make up for that and then some. :woohoo:

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by Kettlekorn.
    9 years 3 months ago #6 by Valentine
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  • It was good but not great.

    From the describe a book in six words [ Click to expand ]

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    9 years 3 months ago #7 by E M Pisek
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  • Just saw Star Wars and I went in with an open mind. Hard to do given how I grew up with the original 3, discounting the last 3, wondering if I was going to see the development of another princess in the making.

    The characterization was good as with some outstanding special effects. I chuckled in a few spots. On of my only problems was with Kylo Ren. I'm sorry but I think he's better off with the helmet on as it made me wonder who's side of the family he took after. For the life of me I thought his head was so totally wrong.

    Other than that I thought it was an enjoyable movie and me and my son debated the merits of the film. We both knew to agree to disagree. If possible I wouldn't mind seeing it again.

    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago #8 by Valentine
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  • Ib12us wrote: Just saw Star Wars and I went in with an open mind. Hard to do given how I grew up with the original 3, discounting the last 3, wondering if I was going to see the development of another princess in the making.

    The characterization was good as with some outstanding special effects. I chuckled in a few spots. On of my only problems was with Kylo Ren. I'm sorry but I think he's better off with the helmet on as it made me wonder who's side of the family he took after. For the life of me I thought his head was so totally wrong.

    Other than that I thought it was an enjoyable movie and me and my son debated the merits of the film. We both knew to agree to disagree. If possible I wouldn't mind seeing it again.


    Don't diss Darth Whiny, he'll come and whine at you, and maybe sparkle a little.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    9 years 3 months ago #9 by E M Pisek
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  • Valentine wrote:

    Ib12us wrote: Just saw Star Wars and I went in with an open mind. Hard to do given how I grew up with the original 3, discounting the last 3, wondering if I was going to see the development of another princess in the making.

    The characterization was good as with some outstanding special effects. I chuckled in a few spots. On of my only problems was with Kylo Ren. I'm sorry but I think he's better off with the helmet on as it made me wonder who's side of the family he took after. For the life of me I thought his head was so totally wrong.

    Other than that I thought it was an enjoyable movie and me and my son debated the merits of the film. We both knew to agree to disagree. If possible I wouldn't mind seeing it again.


    Don't diss Darth Whiny, he'll come and whine at you, and maybe sparkle a little.


    He can sparkle all he wants in that whinny voice, I got a care bear and a my little pony that sparkles to. :P

    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago #10 by ~Archangel~
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  • It's odd every bad guy in other Star Wars films fails in comparison to Darth Vader. Even the Emperor was not as scary-awesome as Vader. What made Darth Vader such a awesome villain?

    Many people hear voices when no-one is there.
    Some are called 'mad' and shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day.
    Others are called 'writers' and they do pretty much the same thing.
    -Ray Bradbury
    9 years 3 months ago #11 by E M Pisek
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  • He was a mystery. His villany was hidden from view. We use facial expressions to convey hatred. He didn't. We never saw his face an we had to use our imagination on who he looked like. It's also that we didn't know much of his background vs who he was later on. In part two the mystery deepened in that we only knew he was Lukes father but no clear idea on what he looked like. We see a villain without a face. Once the face was exposed (a let down in my opinion) the face behind the mask was exposed.

    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago #12 by elrodw
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  • Vader started off evil and got worse. We see him first coming in imperiously at the end of a battle of stormtroopers and hapless rebel troopers - and he force-chokes the captain viciously - all within a couple of minutes of introducing him. He starts off totally bad-ass. the mystery thing really helps, too.

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    9 years 3 months ago #13 by peter
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  • Ib12us wrote:
    The characterization was good as with some outstanding special effects. I chuckled in a few spots. On of my only problems was with Kylo Ren. I'm sorry but I think he's better off with the helmet on as it made me wonder who's side of the family he took after. For the life of me I thought his head was so totally wrong.


    Once he took off that helmet my first impression was of some suburban kid who expresses how horrible his life is by embracing the Goth culture. From that point on in every scene he was in I could not stop thinking of him lurking in a bedroom that had been painted all black, with the wall covered in nihilistic posters. While just outside the door the house is brightly lit and mom is baking cookies
    9 years 3 months ago #14 by E M Pisek
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  • I could not envision Princess Leia baking cookies. Chewie maybe but not Leia.

    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #15 by Sir Lee
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  • I finally went to see it yesterday (took my nephews). The twelve-year-old pointed out that, despite Kylo Ren being allegedly weaker than Darth Vader (and insecure of ever equaling his grandfather), he did some stuff that we had never seen other Force-wielders do.
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Also, the parallels to the other two trilogies are just too numerous to list. Let me see a few...
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    And two ridiculous theories still look good enough:
    1. BB-8 is R2D2 and the Death Star's love child;
    2. There's some wiseass Brazilian guy in Lucasfilm charged with coming up with the names of the places and people.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by Sir Lee.
    9 years 3 months ago #16 by E M Pisek
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  • Sir Lee wrote: I finally went to see it yesterday (took my nephews). The twelve-year-old pointed out that, despite Kylo Ren being allegedly weaker than Darth Vader (and insecure of ever equaling his grandfather), he did some stuff that we had never seen other Force-wielders do.
    And two ridiculous theories still look good enough:
    1. BB-8 is R2D2 and the Death Star's love child;


    Not true. He fell in love with a coffee pot while on lunch back in Return of the Jedi. He also borrowed some of C3PO's parts as with a bowling ball.

    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #17 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • ~Archangel~ wrote: It's odd every bad guy in other Star Wars films fails in comparison to Darth Vader. Even the Emperor was not as scary-awesome as Vader. What made Darth Vader such a awesome villain?

    Well, Kylo Ren is supposed to be a Vader wannabe. So it's kind of deliberate that he's not as scary as Vader. Doesn't make it a good thing, but Kylo isn't supposed to be the standard we use to measure this trilogy's villains - his master (whose name I forget) is. And we haven't seen enough of his master to judge how effective he'll be.

    I think that if they're smart, they'll borrow a little bit of Thrawn* for him, rather than trying to make him a Palpatine clone. But only time will tell.


    *For those unfamiliar with the extended universe, Thrawn is a humanoid alien who rose to the rank of Grand Admiral in the xenophobic Empire through shear badass military genius.

    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by Arcanist Lupus.
    9 years 3 months ago #18 by Kristin Darken
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  • Arcanist Lupus wrote: Well, Kylo Ren is supposed to be a Vader wannabe. So it's kind of deliberate that he's not as scary as Vader. Doesn't make it a good thing, but Kylo isn't supposed to be the standard we use to measure this trilogy's villains - his master (whose name I forget) is. And we haven't seen enough of his master to judge how effective he'll be.

    Indeed, he's more of a tragic figure than the villain. A Snape. Or maybe Draco Malfoy.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    9 years 3 months ago #19 by E M Pisek
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  • I would go moreso with the Draco person than Snape. As much as he hated it he 'knew' the why whereas Draco did not. Of course it did pain him, in my opinion, to have to look at Harry knowing that he was seeing a part of someone he loved.

    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago #20 by Greatdingo
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  • I liked it, I really liked it.

    It had pretty much everything I was looking for in a new Star Wars movie...

    Except one, all-important thing.

    I liked Rey and Finn, especially Rey, she was pretty darn badass.
    Finn was a cool newbie hero and Poe was just awesome.

    Han Solo and Chewie were great, and Ford certainly delivered. But I honestly cared more about the new characters. I didn't care all that much about Leia, but then again, I never really did, so that's not something that ruins anything for me.

    No, what I, sadly, did not experience, was the "Star Wars magic". I remember when I saw the OT special editions in the theater (born in 81, so didn't get to see them in the theater before special edition) I just got this huge rush type feeling all the way down in my stomach. I'm talking butterflies, giddyness, the giggles, the whole shabang!

    I didn't feel the same way with this movie. It was good, I liked it, but it just didn't feel like it used to feel.
    9 years 3 months ago #21 by FiddlerFox
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  • Obligatory Nerd cred: I grew up on Star Wars. I was quoting the originals by the time I was five. My rocking/bouncing horse was a tauntaun on Hoth in my head. My nerd wife randomly asks me what the name of messed up Star Wars species are most of the time and I can usually answer her. I did the RPGs, war games, card games, video games, original toys in the 80s, sat through all the prequels in theatres (skipped college classes to catch Phantom Menace on opening day, sat in line in costume for Revenge of the Sith) and still hold the opinion that episode III was worth putting up with I and II (even if Han shot first in IV). I went into the movie with as much of an open mind as I could after having seen the quality of treatment and respect Disney was handling the Marvel franchise.

    I very much enjoyed the new film. I will say there were moments of sadness and "Nerd-rage" with hordes of moments of awesomeness. The Nerd-rage wasn't even because they got something "wrong," it's because I was moved. There was a story crafted, and it evoked an emotional response because of my care and investment in the characters and situations involved with that story. I will also say that I am "all in" on seeing this new series of movies and new characters. A great many things were done right, and while some decisions are/were controversial I can see exactly why they were made and even kind of agree with them. It is not a hard Sci-fi film, but in my opinion Star Wars never was. I view it as a Space Opera/Morality story similar in vein to ancient Greek Myths or "comic book heroes." It is a story of choices, morals, drama, good vs evil, classic story forms and myths. It is obviously a set up to films coming after it in that they left many teasers and story elements hinted at but not revealed, but I would have been disappointed had they revealed all their cards on the first go.

    I am pleased in that they did NOT go the route of the newer Hobbit movies with the too-many-frame-rate-moving-camera-makes-people-puke issues. My wife and I watched it without drinks or snacks and in standard D (as opposed to 3D) as 3D movies make my wife hurl and we refused to miss "The Wars" due to puke or potty breaks. We figured we would give the first one a go in theatres and then decide if we were seeing the follow ups on the big screen, waiting for DVDs, etc. We do not regret seeing it in the theatre, and we will be seeing the following films in the theatre as well.

    I also enjoyed a great many of the shots film wise. My personal favorite is actually the scene just after having come back from the "save the galaxy" mission at the end where there is very much a massive dichotomy between the action on the left half and the right half of the screen, complete with large amounts of physical distance between what's going on. I thought that shot was brilliant and spoke in many ways more than words really could. There were moments of "Oh this can't turn out well" where it wasn't incredibly difficult to spot but was still done well.

    In short, I have to laugh at things like a Simpsons reference of "Star Wars VII: The Apology" which were poked in good fun but are kind of true. This is a good movie and it is worth seeing. Go in with an open mind and enjoy the story that is being told. We all knew it's going to have a series of "passing the torch" moments so just go with it. The story and characters are good and solid, they are very very likable, and I look forward to what will come with this new story.

    "Uh-oh." "Don't tell me - we're about to go over a huge waterfall." "Yup." "Sharp rocks at the bottom?" "Most likely." "Bring it on."

    BBOOOOOOOOYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
    9 years 3 months ago #22 by Valentine
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  • I do have a bone to pick with you. Han did not shoot first. Han shot, Greedo died. There was no second shot. :)

    I have to agree with Greatdingo, there was no pop. In 1977 Star Wars changed movie making, this was just another good scifi movie.

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    9 years 3 months ago #23 by Kristin Darken
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  • Sadly, I think you are looking for something that you will not experience as an adult. That 'rush' that you describe is a moment of true 'inspiration' that comes from having something something enormously complex and yet entirely new to you become established in your mind all at once. For many people, the only time they will experience this moment is a point of religious conversion. Realistically though, these are fairly easy to induce in children because there isn't related or contradictory information already in their minds to associate this new idea to... whereas adults rarely encounter an idea so unique and encompassing on a large scale that it is 'recorded' in its entirety like this.

    So, expecting to have that sort of reaction to a movie now compared to in your childhood? It's possible... but it would have to have a huge impact on you to get the same result.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    9 years 3 months ago #24 by Dawnfyre
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  • I haven't seen it yet, but I read the trivia on imdb.

    1) the trilogy will be completely separate from the extended universe by plan.
    2) Disney signed an agreement to not go the cgi route for the trilogy, instead to use the prop style Lucasfilm did with the original trilogy.
    ( both points from the trivia )

    I think Darth Vader's impact was also caused in part by his voice. The voice of the character increased the impact of the outfit and actions, a less impressive tone would have ruined the characters portrayal.

    I read the original novel on a 747 headed to Hawaii for Christmas, in 1974, the first trip there.

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    9 years 3 months ago #25 by Sir Lee
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  • I'll dare to be an heretic here. See, I was never -- and I mean NEVER -- a big "Star Wars" fan. I was eleven when it came out, and for me, it was a nice movie, but it was just a movie. I didn't obsess about it. I forgot the characters' names ten minutes after I left the theater. I didn't even realize at the time that the Millenium Falcon had a name. And, to be frank, since I was already into hard SF, I pretty much dismissed the story as fluff unworthy of being called science fiction.

    Almost forty years later... my opinion didn't change very much. Star Wars is fun, but has not a lot of substance.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    9 years 3 months ago #26 by Kristin Darken
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  • Not all that uncommon an opinion among hard sci-fi buffs, actually. I enjoy both sci fi and space opera... but what clicks for me about a Star Wars type story is the heroes journey. Sci fi is often too cynical to believe in heroes... and simply has protagonists.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    9 years 3 months ago #27 by Valentine
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  • I've always thought of Star Wars and Star Trek as Science Fantasy. It's supposed to be science fiction, but there is no science behind the science. It's neither good nor bad, just different from science fiction that tries to use science.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    9 years 3 months ago #28 by Greatdingo
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  • Kristin Darken wrote: Sadly, I think you are looking for something that you will not experience as an adult.


    The thing is, when I watched the Special Edition in the theater I was already an adult(ish) It was during my year in the military. I had already seen Star Wars several times on VHS before that. But the rush, the pop, the magic, it didn't register with me until I saw it on the big screen.

    Certainly didn't register with the prequels, at all. And I had even seen Phantom Menace on the big screen before I saw the Special Edition.
    9 years 3 months ago #29 by ~Archangel~
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  • Hmm I first saw Star Wars when I was a kid, way back in the dawn of time. Did make an impact on me? Yes but not like some of my friends who went Star Wars crazy (the toys, the bedding, for all I know the underwear) what I enjoyed was the 'big damm story' it was a movie that was unapologetic about big, brash and fun.

    Like Sir Lee I was more of a hard Sci-Fi type, I was reading Starship Troopers in Grade 5, and that cemented my love of Heinlein from there it was Clarke and Asimov. However 'The Empire Strikes Back' I loved because the good guys didn't win. That opened my eyes to the whole sometimes it's better story if the hero(es) lose.

    Since then my reading habits have wandered into Fantasy of various flavours, Cyberpunk, back to Sci-Fi hard and others, history and modern thrillers. But Star Wars has a place in my heart, for the big brash event that it was.

    Now the 'Phantom Menace' and 'Attack of the Clones' should taken out back, tied to a pine tree, smeared with jelly, and have pine cones thrown at them until rabid zombie squirrels and radioactive ants devour them. The only good thing about that waste of time that I can say, is that it was better than 'Hudson Hawk', 'Highlander 2' and 'The 5th Element'.

    Many people hear voices when no-one is there.
    Some are called 'mad' and shut up in rooms where they stare at the walls all day.
    Others are called 'writers' and they do pretty much the same thing.
    -Ray Bradbury
    9 years 3 months ago #30 by rubberjohn
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  • While I have yet to see the new Star Wars I rather doubt that it will have as big an impact on me as did the original film of the series.

    Back in 1977 I saw the first Star Wars, now called Episode 4 - A New Hope, in a cinema with some friends while on holiday in Cornwall. At the time the benchmark for Sci-Fi film special effects was probably 2001 - A Space Odyssey. We'd all heard of the rave reviews sweeping Britain, and the world, about the new film but didn't really know what to expect. I clearly remember being quite impressed when Princess Leia's ship drove diagonally down the screen but just about everyone in the cinema ducked as the Imperial Star Destroyer followed it into view and just kept on coming and coming and coming! I'd never seen anything so huge on screen before!

    That one sequence set the tone for the whole film for me and it was only afterwards that I started asking myself just How Did They Do That? Of course in the years since the film's release there have been several documentaries that have explained that question for all the first trilogy of films. While I can't remember where I first saw the other two films I do remember being happily entertained by all three, even while I was quite willing to admit that the story wasn't very deep, they were just so very entertaining.

    Later I watched the first film of the second batch expecting to have that experience repeated only to find that, even with the advent of greatly advanced computer graphics, the film left me feeling flat. Hoping it was just a one-off bad film, which can happen to any film maker, I watched the second film only to find that it was no better. I never watched the third film of the second batch. Moreover I have since watched the re-mastered versions of the original three films - the versions where modern computer graphics have been used to 'enhance' some of the original scenes by sticking more bodies into the scenes and, I'm sad to say, I found that the new, improved version lacked something from the original.

    Perhaps surprisingly, I find that the modern Computer Graphics, which have swept through the film industry - often to great effect, just don't have the same effectiveness in the Star Wars universe as did the original effects, which were the cutting edge of their day. Maybe the significant improvement in special effects over the years which are now seen everyday on television and in cinema have left me jaded when compared to the huge step forward that Star Wars represented at the time.

    When you combine this viewpoint with my distrust of any film which the film makers feel the need to hype to the extent that has happened with Star Wars 7, it is perhaps understandable that I will not be in any hurry to pay through the nose to see the film in the cinema. I can easily wait until it becomes available on DVD!

    John.
    9 years 3 months ago #31 by Kristin Darken
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  • Do the special effects make people jaded? Oh, hell yes. Every now and then we are required by licensing to use a sound design from a show that made some arrangement with its initial sound designer ... and we end up with a design from the era of tape cassette and CD effects, with some simple cheesy music, badly done effects and so on... and everyone cringes and tries to make it work. But even compared to ten years ago when I started working professionally in Sound, audiences expect so much more from designs and the quality of sound in a live performance. And it is because what they experience from film and television... and even video games... these days is vastly superior to what live performances are prepared to do.

    The difference between having six months of post-production time while the film is in the can that you can tailor build sound to... versus having only three weeks of time where you even have the actors in rehearsal, let alone performing off book with some semblance of character, emotion, tempo, and so forth before technical rehearsals make you choose what to use and then there are audience in the seats.

    That doesn't begin to touch on the cost of equipment in this era of lack of support/patronage for the arts. We had a patron walk up to our Producing Director in the previews of our holiday musical and tell him that we need to buy new sound equipment. Like that was something that we could just casually walk down the street, pull out a credit card, and do on the spur of the moment. I'll be the first to admit our wireless microphone system is 'cheap' ... it's not the absolute lowest end equipment out there, but its generally not considered pro audio gear by anyone other than high school kids forming a band in someone's basement or churches set up in those pre-fab metal warehouse buildings. A good set of microphones of the sort that might be found in a high end theatre would cost us more than the entire box office take of our holiday show. And that's JUST the mics.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    9 years 3 months ago #32 by FiddlerFox
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  • Similarly, the Age of Recording has helped kill music. Speaking as a musician and performer, the ability for someone to walk into a store, and plop down $15 for a CD which will produce perfect quality, error free music laid down one track at a time over a period of months until it is that perfect... well lets just say live performances are picked apart, trashed, and destroyed until people become so afraid of a single mistake or fail that they would rather lip sync and try to make a good "show" with special effects because that's what the audience and populace demand. The audience now demands studio quality recording and perfection in a live imperfect environment, and the average person doesn't understand it's often not possible due to things like weather, illness, sound quality of the venue, slight instrument or sound system malfunction, etc.

    It's beginning to do this in all the performing arts. Computers and superior technology is a double edged sword, and sometimes well.. lets say that I don't always agree that newer or more modern means better. Perhaps being a performer has helped my viewing of movies and let me be a bit more allowing of oopsies or imperfections than others. It's hard to say.

    "Uh-oh." "Don't tell me - we're about to go over a huge waterfall." "Yup." "Sharp rocks at the bottom?" "Most likely." "Bring it on."

    BBOOOOOOOOYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
    9 years 3 months ago #33 by E. E. Nalley
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  • Well, I guess I stewed on this long enough, so I should probably write down what I think of The Force Awakens. This will probably contain spoilers which I will try to put behind the spoiler tag but I may miss something, so you have been warned. First some background.

    In May 1977, as a newly minted seven-year-old, I saw Star Wars at Georgia's own Storey Theater Company (since bought out by Regal Entertainment Group) Shannon Eight theater. I saw it on opening day and it's the first movie that I can remember going to see. Let us also not forget that Star Wars was the first picture presented in Dolby sound. When that star destroyer came over my head and I felt the rumble of it in the pit of my stomach my life was changed. It was one of those pivotal moments that you often see in movies or read about in stories, Star Wars was as close to perfection I felt then as could be had. It would be many years until I started seeing the flaws in Star Wars.

    Before we go on, it's worth noting some of those flaws again so as to have a common frame of reference.

    1) Pacing. What opens as a fast-paced chase sequence, spins into the escape of the droids and the hunt for them by the storm troopers, then takes a left turn at American Graffiti and crashes headlong in to teenage angst. The second reel Star Wars is horribly paced. The introduction of characters that should happen, such as Biggs, are cut, whereas mentions of Luke's father and the mysterious Ben Kenobi are done and overdone slowing the pacing. Although credit must be given to the actors who played Owen Lars and Beru Lars who with nothing but vague dialogue to go with managed to sell this mysterious back story we wouldn't know for years.

    2) Stupid Ball. In what is perhaps the most monumentally and incredibly stupid decisions in the history of rebellions, certain that her ship is being tracked by a weapon that is capable of destroying an entire planet, Princess Leia "Glory Hog" Orgena leads the Empire directly to the headquarters base of the rebellion. She doesn't arrange for a rendezvous in space doesn't transmit the plans, or even direct the Millennium Falcon to a planet where she could disappear that is too important for Gov. Tarken to just blow up, Corusant for example; no she goes right to Yavin Four.

    3) Nitpicks. As with any production along this size they're going to be goofs and flaws throughout. The storm trooper banging his head on the door, the power cord for Obi-Wans light saber going Up his sleeve, and of course directors who can't leave well enough alone or sleep at night realizing that they made a hero out of a murderous drug smuggler. Any film is going to have these so I won't dwell on them too much.

    That said Star Wars shines because it is such a perfect blending of myth and the heroes journey while stealing imagery from a number of greater films that perhaps didn't have as much play in the United States. Lucas even now admits that he lifted large portions of Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress and of course the trench run come straight out of World War II's The Dam Busters. After years of terrible quote experimental unquote disco soundtracks Lucas also made the decision to go back to orchestral arrangements as 2001 had and hired John Williams to produce a score. I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that Star Wars would be half the movie it is now if it had a funk guitar soundtrack like something out of a porno movie.

    So in light of that let's take a look at The Force Awakens. I put what I found good and likable about the movie out in the open and I'll try to keep my finger waving nitpicks behind the spoiler. Watching this movie felt like watching a Star Wars movie again. In a way that the prequel's very much did not. And while this feels like a much smaller film, and if the prequel did anything right they successfully portrayed these were big doings in a big scope. But Star Wars when you get down to it was a pretty small and intimate film. The vast majority of it takes place on the sound stage; it doesn't feel small because the sets are so perfect and elaborate. That's where the prequel's went astray. There was so much green screen that even the actors had no idea what they were looking at and that came across in their performances. They even complain about it bitterly in the makings of documentaries. Having real sets with real props to bang your hand on helps the actors sell things that they may not themselves by into.

    One of my favorite quote from Sir Alec Guinness goes along the lines of, "you know I really don't understand what all the fuss is about with this film, but as an entertainer if young people are amused that's what I'm in this business for."

    I've been a Han Solo fan boy since 1977 so I was thrilled to see him in action again. Harrison Ford is due a lot of credit on the screen was Han Solo, old Han Solo, but not old Harrison Ford trying to be Han Solo. If you understand that last sentence you get what I'm talking about. The pacing in this movie was quite good in the movie just flowed by, perhaps even just a tad too quick but that a nitpick. I didn't have to suffer through an episode of C-SPAN covering the Galactic Senate and by and large I cared about the people I did see. One of the best reviews that I have seen, and it had quite a bit of negative things to say, was that if the reviewer came out of the theater and episode eight was playing in the adjacent theater he would've walked right in without a pause. And so would I.

    And now we get into the meat of what I meant to talk about which is going to go behind the spoiler tag.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    So those are my thoughts, good and bad. Your mileage may vary. I will go see episode eight, and Rogue One because I really love this universe and I'm really hoping that it's in the hands of people who love it as much as I do. And I hope it keeps feeling like Star Wars the way this movie did, because my nitpicks aside, I felt like I was in Star Wars movie again and that the best thing I can say about it.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    9 years 3 months ago #34 by Valentine
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  • E. E. Nalley wrote: Having real sets with real props to bang your hand on head into helps the actors sell things that they may not themselves by into.


    I fixed that for you. :evil:

    I agree with most of what you have written. The biggest difference is that I like Jar Jar, and Darth Whiny needs to die. Then again Jar Jar is the only character from parts I-III that I really liked.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    9 years 3 months ago #35 by E M Pisek
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  • As with Mr. Nalley, I to was a little disappointed with the New Star Wars. I felt the excitement that many felt when it first came out and I was 17 at the time. It was refreshing, exciting and I was able to immerse myself into the movie.

    The points that he brought up were some of the points me and my son had. I won't go into to much detail except that in some areas I found it to be a bit over the top.

    J.J. Abrams, to me, has a tendency to go for to much flash and he likes to keep things a secret needlessly. He's more of a P.T. Barnum in that respect. Tantalizes the audiences expectations and then once the show is over, they find how they were taken. Not badly but fooled by their own desire for something that really wasn't much.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    If they ever write a book about this, I would surely hope that the writers would include a lot more detail on the how and why. Of course this is going to be a trilogy and as one director leaves we have to hope that explanations are forthcoming. But from what I've read (if its to be believed) I can expect it not to happen.

    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #36 by FiddlerFox
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  • I've been gathering from my research that there's a lot of material in the novelization, visual dictionaries, and other resources on the characters and some of their backstory that didn't get into the shots of the film. This is a failing in that this would have been useful material. I mean, I shouldn't have to use Wookieepedia as a source for actual information the film didn't cover but support texts did.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    "Uh-oh." "Don't tell me - we're about to go over a huge waterfall." "Yup." "Sharp rocks at the bottom?" "Most likely." "Bring it on."

    BBOOOOOOOOYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by FiddlerFox. Reason: Tried to clarify with the last paragraph under the spoiler section, but probably didn't :) Ah well.
    9 years 3 months ago #37 by rubberjohn
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  • From Fiddler Fox's comments it sounds to me as though this film is showing all the classic signs of a film that, in it's original concept or cut, was considered to be too long and so had too many scenes cut out to reduce the run time. The biggest trouble with that is that very often information that is critical to the proper understanding of the story ends up on the cutting room floor leaving audiences wondering WTF? at the end of the movie.

    When you hear people commenting that they hope so and so is explained in the following movie you know that critical stuff was either never included in production or was chopped out in the cutting room. Whether that's due to bad writing, poor planning or studio concerns is another matter. At least nothing I've read here has caused me to change my mind about waiting for the DVD release.

    John.
    9 years 3 months ago #38 by Valentine
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  • My recommendation to people has been, to see it during a matinee, when the prices are cheaper.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    9 years 3 months ago #39 by Kristin Darken
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  • I agree with E.E.'s evaluation on the pace... the movie flowed well and never felt stagnant. That may have come at the cost of some of that additional lore and background. The question then comes, if we get a longer 'directors' cut that adds another half hour to the movie and puts all that lore back in... will it hurt the pacing of the story? My guess is that it will... and that this was the 'balance' point of what they thought the average commercial audience (which includes young kids) could bear. And that the extra half hour might not have hurt it for 'us' but pushed it over the edge into too slow for a ten year old.

    I did see it in 3D and while I often find the 3D effects handled poorly, they did do a good job with it here. A lot of that is best seen in what they did with the blaster technology and the physical impacts went a long way to solving the old 'why do the stormtroopers always miss' issue. That being that there are huge physical feedback elements on both ends of a blaster bolt. So you can't just line up on a target and just keep firing until your beam is on target... there's a significant kick involved in firing one. And a huge one in taking the hit, not just the 'burn' damage of a laser hit. Watching pistol sized blasters tossing people around physically was pretty cool.

    And the vibroswords and melee energy weapons were good to see too. They've always been part of the lore, just didn't really make it on screen... but seeing them in use makes it far more believable that someone could pick up a light saber and use it effectively without having the whole Jedi training history.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #40 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • A lot of the nitpicks - especially ones related to the unexpected competence of Rei and Finn with weapons and situations that they shouldn't have much experience in can be explained fairly logically - but they shouldn't have to be. The movie should have filled in the blanks for us.

    some specific things (some of which other people have already mentioned) [ Click to expand ]

    I liked Force Awakens, but I'm reserving judgement. It so closely mirrors the original that how well the sequels subvert the path followed by the first trilogy will make or break the film.
    Leia's a strong enough force user that she probably sensed subconsciously that Rei is related to her. (I'm assuming that Rei is Luke's daughter or close relative, even if it hasn't been confirmed yet.)

    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by Arcanist Lupus.
    9 years 3 months ago #41 by elrodw
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  • I have NOT seen Force Awakens yet, and I'm really in no hurry. The descriptions I've seen of Rei compare her to a full-blown, unabashed Mary-Sue - knowing how to do Jedi force stuff without even knowing that there WAS a Force - knowing the Millenium Falcon better than Han, being good at everything she does, etc.

    In the original (A New Hope), Luke had to learn and he was fallible. The descriptions I've seen so far show her as too good with no learning-curve.

    I'm in no rush to see it.

    There. I said it.

    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    9 years 3 months ago #42 by Kristin Darken
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    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    9 years 3 months ago #43 by FiddlerFox
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  • Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    "Uh-oh." "Don't tell me - we're about to go over a huge waterfall." "Yup." "Sharp rocks at the bottom?" "Most likely." "Bring it on."

    BBOOOOOOOOYYAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
    9 years 3 months ago #44 by mittfh
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  • I agree with much of what's been said so far - while also saying I quite enjoyed the film. It looks as though their use of practical effects even extended to the opening crawl (the wall of expositionary text opening the film).

    Six word plot: New characters search for old character.

    (As there's quite a few to choose from on each side of the equation, that's probably not very spoilery)

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
    9 years 3 months ago #45 by Sir Lee
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    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    9 years 3 months ago #46 by Valentine
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  • Love Finds a Way

    As for Finn and Rei dueling with Darth Whiny. The best swordsman in the world doesn't fear the second best swordsman, he does fear the lucky guy that just picked one up.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    9 years 3 months ago #47 by E M Pisek
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  • Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago #48 by DanZilla
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  • I've seen the movie a couple times and while it's not a perfect movie... what is. It was an enjoyable movie that definitely felt like a Star Wars movie and didn't feel like it was dumbed-down too much or engineered extensively to sell toys.

    I think, from my reading here and elsewhere online, it was probably edited down too much but I can see how that would be a difficult thing to not do to make sure the balance and pacing worked for the general audience and children.

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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