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Question Power ratings confusion
5 years 1 month ago - 5 years 1 month ago #1
by Softdreams
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- Softdreams
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Hello,
I, very recently, dreamed up my very own character, her name is Alayah, alias: Polymorph (I might still change it, it's yet to be decided). They (they/them is being used here as a gender neutral pronoun rather than referring to a group of people, any pronouns are welcomed though) identify as non-binary, while relentlessly pounding away at my keyboard and thinking up new ideas I seem to have finally hit a wall with enough force to contain even an Exemplar 5. Due to certain reasons, I would prefer my character not to be OP'd, I want them to grow into their own power over time. Versatile and clever over overpowered.
I'm having quite a hard time with the rating of my character's powers while also struggling to keep them contained within mid-level ratings. So far, I thought of making my character a shifter who has 3 different forms, the only thing that changes is their sex, no mass gaining of any kind, all forms possess the attributes of an exemplar 3 rated mutant. Other minor changes could be achieved, but most, if not all of them are aesthetic rather than having a function, for example: changing their eye color, hair texture, length and color, some minor skin changes such as giving themself freckles. How could I word this? Would this fall within Shifter 3?
I went a little higher with their Wiz rating, I rated them as a solid high level wizard 4, magic is their specialty, or main power. Their specialty is enchanting items for a WIDE variety of effects and using sigils/carrying around prepared spells, versatility is their middle name (think of it as Abracadabra with her paper charms). Would this be overpowering them? (they take MUCH pride in being a mage)
A Beltane/Foxfire leveled ectoplasm manifestor, I know how this sounds but their ratings are yet to be revealed. My character enjoys "cosplaying" or incorporating techniques from fictional chracters into their bag of tricks, for example: manifesting "paper" to use like the R.O.D characters, manifesting an umbrella that doubles as a weapon, manifesting smoke/darkstuff to use as a weapon/symbiote-like thing. Like I said before; versatility is their middle name, that's why I came to the conclusion that a Beltane-like (who is just as versatile, if not, MORE) manifesting rating IS neccesary to achieve those little effects. Overpowered yet?
I should have said this before typing all of this up but I get why you'd see this is a lot but my character WON'T grow into these powers all at once, think of it in a LTW sort of way, powerful mages that WILL be so but are yet to get there. Mine will most likely be a Junior High student as well (8th grade). This is a long term plan sort of thing. Basically what I'm showing you is the final product.
So, so far their ratings would be SHIFTER ?, WIZ 4 (I'm willing to bring it down to a 3, if neccessary), MAN 3 (?) PSI (undecided, RELUCTANT to even add this one).
I, very recently, dreamed up my very own character, her name is Alayah, alias: Polymorph (I might still change it, it's yet to be decided). They (they/them is being used here as a gender neutral pronoun rather than referring to a group of people, any pronouns are welcomed though) identify as non-binary, while relentlessly pounding away at my keyboard and thinking up new ideas I seem to have finally hit a wall with enough force to contain even an Exemplar 5. Due to certain reasons, I would prefer my character not to be OP'd, I want them to grow into their own power over time. Versatile and clever over overpowered.
I'm having quite a hard time with the rating of my character's powers while also struggling to keep them contained within mid-level ratings. So far, I thought of making my character a shifter who has 3 different forms, the only thing that changes is their sex, no mass gaining of any kind, all forms possess the attributes of an exemplar 3 rated mutant. Other minor changes could be achieved, but most, if not all of them are aesthetic rather than having a function, for example: changing their eye color, hair texture, length and color, some minor skin changes such as giving themself freckles. How could I word this? Would this fall within Shifter 3?
I went a little higher with their Wiz rating, I rated them as a solid high level wizard 4, magic is their specialty, or main power. Their specialty is enchanting items for a WIDE variety of effects and using sigils/carrying around prepared spells, versatility is their middle name (think of it as Abracadabra with her paper charms). Would this be overpowering them? (they take MUCH pride in being a mage)
A Beltane/Foxfire leveled ectoplasm manifestor, I know how this sounds but their ratings are yet to be revealed. My character enjoys "cosplaying" or incorporating techniques from fictional chracters into their bag of tricks, for example: manifesting "paper" to use like the R.O.D characters, manifesting an umbrella that doubles as a weapon, manifesting smoke/darkstuff to use as a weapon/symbiote-like thing. Like I said before; versatility is their middle name, that's why I came to the conclusion that a Beltane-like (who is just as versatile, if not, MORE) manifesting rating IS neccesary to achieve those little effects. Overpowered yet?
I should have said this before typing all of this up but I get why you'd see this is a lot but my character WON'T grow into these powers all at once, think of it in a LTW sort of way, powerful mages that WILL be so but are yet to get there. Mine will most likely be a Junior High student as well (8th grade). This is a long term plan sort of thing. Basically what I'm showing you is the final product.
So, so far their ratings would be SHIFTER ?, WIZ 4 (I'm willing to bring it down to a 3, if neccessary), MAN 3 (?) PSI (undecided, RELUCTANT to even add this one).
Last Edit: 5 years 1 month ago by Softdreams.
5 years 1 month ago - 5 years 1 month ago #2
by null0trooper
Posts:
3032
Gender:
Male
Birthdate:
19 Oct 1964
The power ratings are meant to be flexible, and even what's been provided to the wiki maintainers is known to be inaccurate. There's even variance as to how much the ratings are intended to reflect source or outcome. But in-universe, powers evaluation is a work in progress to the point that an esper who can sense powers by type is a hot commodity in 2016.
That said, even a character rated Esper-2(proj. empathy) Esper-3(extra senses), Channeler-2 is considered by the canon authors to be wildly overpowered for a generation of characters that includes a Returned Sidhe Queen, the Soke no Do, the Kellith, the White Buffalo Calf Woman, and a pack of Olympian gods.
The number one question about Alayah that I have is: What is the purpose of the character? Thought experiment, fan fiction story protagonist, personal fantasy?
Let's start with the bad news first:
As the protagonist for a Whateley story, there are some alarm bells going off, because you want to start writing them as a pre-pubescent child (8th grade: 11 - 13) that has an adult presentation and an always-on power that makes adults want to have sex with them. That's statutory rape no matter how you justify it. In New Hampshire, the age of consent is 16 years old for heterosexual conduct. For homosexual conduct, the age of consent is 18.
* But Sara!: Michael Waite changed as an adult. Sara only looks younger.
* But Phase and Vox in Miami!: Only hinted at, AND close in age exemptions exist in the State of Florida.
* But Adore!: Much of her origin story is never, ever going to see print, and her author does not want to read about people coming up with their own versions..
Even if you didn't want to go that far in a story, you need to consider the Whateley Universe setting. That's a mind-altering effect keyed toward bypassing consent. Until Adore learns control of her libido-altering effects, she's not going to see the outside of Hawthorne Cottage without the equivalent of an armed escort. And she isn't written as having an effect so strong that "The Kodiak, spirit of the Untamed Earth, Duke of the Court of the Center, Master Healer and Court Physician to her Majesty, Gaia, High Queen of the Natural Realm" can't protect his host from the effect. That's not subtle, that's Granddaughter of Shub-Niggurath level of removing agency.
Plus, a child of that age would think it acceptible or even funny to shift genders during an intimate situation. Having psyched the other person into an unreasoning sexual desire for their masculine presentation, that may well be the last mistake your psychic magic shifter lives to make.
tl,dr: If you want to write a story that other people might enjoy, you need to consider the immediate and long-term consequences of your protagonist's actions AND you need to consider the effects their actions will have on the people around them, basing those effects on their existing characterization.
As to the other powers, there's a system mechanic that you may not have run across yet: WU mutants manifest precisely once. That means that your 8th grader is manifesting with Esper-5+, Manifestor-3:by, Shifter-3:tfnwm, Wizard-4
As described, the Shifter and Manifestor traits give her the capability of copying the appearance, including clothing and accessories of nearly any human, even the powers of some mutants, practically on the spur of the moment. Once indoctrinated and trained, the possibilities for espionage, agitprop, counter-intel are endless.
There are nine characters in the WU that I can name as being rated Wizard-4+ (Majestic, Spellbinder, Absinthe, Whisper, Envy, Camille Landers, Dragonsfyre, Charmer, Fey) It's supposed to be a rare level of essence draw/recovery. Once Alayah manifests, there would be several unsavory and far more experienced mages hoping to obtain her for use as a reliquary recharger.
Many of the people who would be most interested in a mutant with these abilities are likely to decide that if they can't own her, nobody will. Not even Fey is immune to acute cerebral lead poisoning.
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book
Discussion Thread
- null0trooper
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Softdreams wrote: Due to certain reasons, I would prefer my character not to be OP'd, I want them to grow into their own power over time. Versatile and clever over overpowered.
The power ratings are meant to be flexible, and even what's been provided to the wiki maintainers is known to be inaccurate. There's even variance as to how much the ratings are intended to reflect source or outcome. But in-universe, powers evaluation is a work in progress to the point that an esper who can sense powers by type is a hot commodity in 2016.
That said, even a character rated Esper-2(proj. empathy) Esper-3(extra senses), Channeler-2 is considered by the canon authors to be wildly overpowered for a generation of characters that includes a Returned Sidhe Queen, the Soke no Do, the Kellith, the White Buffalo Calf Woman, and a pack of Olympian gods.
The number one question about Alayah that I have is: What is the purpose of the character? Thought experiment, fan fiction story protagonist, personal fantasy?
Let's start with the bad news first:
Warning: Spoiler!
[ Click to expand ]
[ Click to hide ]
As the protagonist for a Whateley story, there are some alarm bells going off, because you want to start writing them as a pre-pubescent child (8th grade: 11 - 13) that has an adult presentation and an always-on power that makes adults want to have sex with them. That's statutory rape no matter how you justify it. In New Hampshire, the age of consent is 16 years old for heterosexual conduct. For homosexual conduct, the age of consent is 18.
* But Sara!: Michael Waite changed as an adult. Sara only looks younger.
* But Phase and Vox in Miami!: Only hinted at, AND close in age exemptions exist in the State of Florida.
* But Adore!: Much of her origin story is never, ever going to see print, and her author does not want to read about people coming up with their own versions..
Even if you didn't want to go that far in a story, you need to consider the Whateley Universe setting. That's a mind-altering effect keyed toward bypassing consent. Until Adore learns control of her libido-altering effects, she's not going to see the outside of Hawthorne Cottage without the equivalent of an armed escort. And she isn't written as having an effect so strong that "The Kodiak, spirit of the Untamed Earth, Duke of the Court of the Center, Master Healer and Court Physician to her Majesty, Gaia, High Queen of the Natural Realm" can't protect his host from the effect. That's not subtle, that's Granddaughter of Shub-Niggurath level of removing agency.
Plus, a child of that age would think it acceptible or even funny to shift genders during an intimate situation. Having psyched the other person into an unreasoning sexual desire for their masculine presentation, that may well be the last mistake your psychic magic shifter lives to make.
tl,dr: If you want to write a story that other people might enjoy, you need to consider the immediate and long-term consequences of your protagonist's actions AND you need to consider the effects their actions will have on the people around them, basing those effects on their existing characterization.
As to the other powers, there's a system mechanic that you may not have run across yet: WU mutants manifest precisely once. That means that your 8th grader is manifesting with Esper-5+, Manifestor-3:by, Shifter-3:tfnwm, Wizard-4
Warning: Spoiler!
[ Click to expand ]
[ Click to hide ]
As described, the Shifter and Manifestor traits give her the capability of copying the appearance, including clothing and accessories of nearly any human, even the powers of some mutants, practically on the spur of the moment. Once indoctrinated and trained, the possibilities for espionage, agitprop, counter-intel are endless.
There are nine characters in the WU that I can name as being rated Wizard-4+ (Majestic, Spellbinder, Absinthe, Whisper, Envy, Camille Landers, Dragonsfyre, Charmer, Fey) It's supposed to be a rare level of essence draw/recovery. Once Alayah manifests, there would be several unsavory and far more experienced mages hoping to obtain her for use as a reliquary recharger.
Many of the people who would be most interested in a mutant with these abilities are likely to decide that if they can't own her, nobody will. Not even Fey is immune to acute cerebral lead poisoning.
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book
Discussion Thread
Last Edit: 5 years 1 month ago by null0trooper. Reason: wrong tags
5 years 1 month ago #3
by Softdreams
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I guess I should've cleared up the sexual orientation bit first, this is a LONG TERM plan sort of thing. This aspect of my character will be written about MUCH (many years later) later in my story. And yes, I guess I should tone it down, Kodiac is quite a powerful character so granting such an ability would surely be overpowering my chracter. I planned to make it an ability she manifested much later, but yes, you're right, I had no knowledge of mutants only manifesting once.
And no, she's not a "personal fantasy", there's so much more about Alayah, I've only talked about her powers yet because that's where I've hit the wall. It's a pretty layered and complicated character with issues of her own, most unrelated to her abilities and orientation.
And no, she's not a "personal fantasy", there's so much more about Alayah, I've only talked about her powers yet because that's where I've hit the wall. It's a pretty layered and complicated character with issues of her own, most unrelated to her abilities and orientation.
5 years 1 month ago #4
by Softdreams
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Regarding the Manifestor trait, I know it's pretty versatile but I have had little to no luck finding stories where it's portrayed as such, may you point me towards some?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
5 years 1 month ago #5
by null0trooper
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Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book
Discussion Thread
- null0trooper
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For an amusing use of ectoplasm, try
Siblings and Savages, Part 2
Other manifestations in Gen 1:
Swoop's feathers
Oiler, Greasy, and Tarmac's oils
Armor/carapace: Iron Star (looks like power armor), Britomart, X-O, Armadillo
Bodies: OMAG, Phalanx
Ice: Icer
Glass: Cinderella
Fabric: Ribbon
Water: Kraken
Other manifestations in Gen 1:
Swoop's feathers
Oiler, Greasy, and Tarmac's oils
Armor/carapace: Iron Star (looks like power armor), Britomart, X-O, Armadillo
Bodies: OMAG, Phalanx
Ice: Icer
Glass: Cinderella
Fabric: Ribbon
Water: Kraken
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book
Discussion Thread
5 years 1 month ago #6
by Softdreams
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This character has proven to be way more challenging than I expected. I aimed only to create a character that went on adventures, sort of like the ones the TLW, and the Lit Chix used to go on. I have completely written off the idea of giving my character the ability to influence others' sexual orientations, so the Esper 5+ aspect has been eliminated, I want my character to go on light-hearted adventures, tell their story cleanly.
I'm still struggling with their powerset, basically my character has derived a lot of inspiration from Beltane and Foxfire, which means I wanted a versatile ectoplasm manifestor/mage, but ectoplasm manifestors aren't discussed in-depth in the Whateley-verse so I'm dealing with unknown territory. Also, keeping them from stepping into OP'ed territory is more challenging than I expected.
I'd appreciate more input on their powerset! (especially the Manifestor and Shifter traits)
I'm still struggling with their powerset, basically my character has derived a lot of inspiration from Beltane and Foxfire, which means I wanted a versatile ectoplasm manifestor/mage, but ectoplasm manifestors aren't discussed in-depth in the Whateley-verse so I'm dealing with unknown territory. Also, keeping them from stepping into OP'ed territory is more challenging than I expected.
I'd appreciate more input on their powerset! (especially the Manifestor and Shifter traits)
5 years 1 month ago #7
by Kettlekorn
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If the character's supposed to be low-level, having both magic and general purpose manifesting seems redundant. My advice is to make the character a pure manifestor. They can use a shell like Beltane and Marty to replace the shifter trait, and they can get help from a friend when they need enchantments or other magical assistance.
As for ectoplasm manifesting, the trick is to remember that everything they create is a prop. Simple props might be functional (pogo stick, rope, binoculars), but anything that's complex (electronics, engines) or reactive (acid, gunpowder, antimatter) is either non-functional or faking it. Beyond that, a lot of the rest is variable from character to character, so it's up to you. You get to decide how durable the manifestations are, how long they last, how fast the character gathers more ectoplasm, how far away a manifestation can appear, etc. Just make sure you're consistent about it.
As for ectoplasm manifesting, the trick is to remember that everything they create is a prop. Simple props might be functional (pogo stick, rope, binoculars), but anything that's complex (electronics, engines) or reactive (acid, gunpowder, antimatter) is either non-functional or faking it. Beyond that, a lot of the rest is variable from character to character, so it's up to you. You get to decide how durable the manifestations are, how long they last, how fast the character gathers more ectoplasm, how far away a manifestation can appear, etc. Just make sure you're consistent about it.
I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
5 years 1 month ago #8
by Softdreams
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Hi, thanks for answering!
The character isn't supposed to be low-level, they're supposed to be mid-level, sort of like Jadis, she's powerful but she's not too high-leveled either. I would bring down the Wizard trait a little, but being a mage is a very important part of my character, they're a proud mage, the kind that constantly brags about it.
I thought about getting rid of the Shifter trait, but redefining your biological patterns using just an ectoplasm shell is really difficult, and it takes a really long time. But, I really appreciate the extra info on ectoplasm manifestations!
The character isn't supposed to be low-level, they're supposed to be mid-level, sort of like Jadis, she's powerful but she's not too high-leveled either. I would bring down the Wizard trait a little, but being a mage is a very important part of my character, they're a proud mage, the kind that constantly brags about it.
I thought about getting rid of the Shifter trait, but redefining your biological patterns using just an ectoplasm shell is really difficult, and it takes a really long time. But, I really appreciate the extra info on ectoplasm manifestations!
5 years 1 month ago #9
by null0trooper
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The "wizard" trait only references how fast the mutant accumulates Essence. It has practically nothing to do with skill or knowledge.
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book
Discussion Thread
- null0trooper
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Softdreams wrote: I would bring down the Wizard trait a little, but being a mage is a very important part of my character, they're a proud mage, the kind that constantly brags about it.
The "wizard" trait only references how fast the mutant accumulates Essence. It has practically nothing to do with skill or knowledge.
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
WhatIF Stories: Buy the Book
Discussion Thread
5 years 1 month ago #10
by Softdreams
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Oh, I'm aware of that.
5 years 1 month ago #11
by Softdreams
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So far I've settled with Manifestor-2:bx, Shifter-3:tfnwm, Wizard-4! Thank you for the help!
((I'm still hoping I get me some Beltane focused stories though))
((I'm still hoping I get me some Beltane focused stories though))
5 years 1 month ago #12
by Warren
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Don't push the on-button if you don't know where the off-button is. -- Solomon Short
- Warren
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I'll drop in my own method to "balancing" a character since you are worried about being over powered. It's very much like counting cards at the blackjack table. The values discussed here are your own personal ratings not something that is "hard and fast" in Whateley. This is just a creative tool.
When I create a character, I start with the first power they will have. Usually the most powerful one. I know this can evolve over time, but we're living in the moment here.
The power you've chosen polymorphism is an extremely powerful ability. You've downplayed it a little by having it "always on," but for this universe, that is not always a bad thing so...
Let's use a 10 point balance ranking system. Polymorphism as I said above is a very powerful ability but is not god level. So let's give it a 6 rating then subtract 1 for the always on. So we're at 5.
Now the question comes up what other negative can we give the character to bring the value back to zero. Perhaps something mental since the personal body image has become fluid, perhaps taking the idea of imaginary friends a bit further? Have her unknowingly change into a completely original mentally separate character. Who she thinks is a dream. This idea is hearkening back to Jade who had a complete mental split apparently prior to coming to Whateley.
Something like this would definitely bring the balance rank back to zero if not past it into negative. If the second one managed to register and start taking classes on her own? Same schedule but people might miss that answers to the teacher's questions are coming from two different people that appear to be in the same seat? Fun and torture could be had with this idea.
Now I used this method with both HIve and Garafena.
When I create a character, I start with the first power they will have. Usually the most powerful one. I know this can evolve over time, but we're living in the moment here.
The power you've chosen polymorphism is an extremely powerful ability. You've downplayed it a little by having it "always on," but for this universe, that is not always a bad thing so...
Let's use a 10 point balance ranking system. Polymorphism as I said above is a very powerful ability but is not god level. So let's give it a 6 rating then subtract 1 for the always on. So we're at 5.
Now the question comes up what other negative can we give the character to bring the value back to zero. Perhaps something mental since the personal body image has become fluid, perhaps taking the idea of imaginary friends a bit further? Have her unknowingly change into a completely original mentally separate character. Who she thinks is a dream. This idea is hearkening back to Jade who had a complete mental split apparently prior to coming to Whateley.
Something like this would definitely bring the balance rank back to zero if not past it into negative. If the second one managed to register and start taking classes on her own? Same schedule but people might miss that answers to the teacher's questions are coming from two different people that appear to be in the same seat? Fun and torture could be had with this idea.
Now I used this method with both HIve and Garafena.
Don't push the on-button if you don't know where the off-button is. -- Solomon Short
5 years 1 month ago #13
by Softdreams
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I'm loving this, I honestly had to re-read it several times because each time new ideas just jumped at me! I mean, I'm using "Polymorph" as their codename, but I think I have successfully brought them down to mid-level; I limited their shapeshifting abilities to only 3 forms, all similar, only their sex changes and each one is at an "EX 3" level, added a little Manifestor trait which is quite useful, it's pretty versatile, but it needs work to become truly efficient, their main power is their Wizard abilities, their ability to recharge their well quickly BUT their Wizard abilities need training, A LOT of it, since it only allows them to recharge their well fast, add their mental illness and LOW self esteem to it and yes, I've successfully brought them down quite a bit.
Thanks for answering! I loved this answer, I'll keep this in mind in case I ever come up with a new character/story!
Thanks for answering! I loved this answer, I'll keep this in mind in case I ever come up with a new character/story!
5 years 1 month ago #14
by Warren
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272
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Male
Birthdate:
15 Oct 1963
Don't push the on-button if you don't know where the off-button is. -- Solomon Short
- Warren
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Well, I've always felt the need to avoid the over-powered character at least at the starting point. I say this because a lot of times the story takes a turn and during that turn you can balance it out by introducing new limitations. Whether it's a strong moral compass or a new weakness, those flow with the story.
Don't push the on-button if you don't know where the off-button is. -- Solomon Short
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