Question Asexuality?

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: I don't see why "asexual" would need to be in Poe. Every person introduced to the Poe 'Secret', is a new chance for that secret to be leaked. The default would be not to house a student in Poe, a case needs to be made for each and every student put there.

Asexuality is hardly a dangerous thing, I've never heard of lynch mobs against people who don't like sex. No such thing as an 'Asexual Basher'.

While asexual students might be a little lonelier, may suffer a bit at the hands of unkind students in the teasing department, it's not a Poe like crisis of existence like being gay can be.

Basically, asexual students would be assigned to the cottages ignoring this totally, and they would be lost amongst the rest of the 'losers' who couldn't manage to partner up.

Kristin Darken wrote: I'm going to shift this down to the concepts section... not because its wrong to discuss the topic here in the quad but more because you're relating it directly to characters and concepts in the stories... so that puts it in context of the WU instead of 'real world' ...

And ya... its surprising how few people are unaware of asexual... in the same way that many people misunderstand asocial (usually mixing it up with sociopath).

Valentine wrote: First the kid would have to realize they are Asexual, and not just a late bloomer, haven't found the right person, or any of the other things it could be. Second they would have to put that on the application. Third someone in the Admin would then have to decide where to put them.

…

BTW. I am asexual, but it took a long time to realize that, mostly because I never heard of it until relatively recently.

Studies have found that asexuals have fewer sex partners and less frequent sexual activity than sexuals; some are reported to be celibate (Prause and Graham 2007; Bogaert 2004).

Valentine wrote: Greatest research quote ever.

Studies have found that asexuals have fewer sex partners and less frequent sexual activity than sexuals; some are reported to be celibate (Prause and Graham 2007; Bogaert 2004).

Next studies show water is wet.

Kristin Darken wrote: Not quite right. Asexual can enjoy having sex... it is physically possible... they simply don't get to that point because. They don't have the inclination for it and do not find anyone sexually interesting/attractive. They can have an abstract acknowledgement of what would be considered attractive... but they don't need to pursue it.

konzill wrote: Isn't Jade asexual? IIRC Sara's power completly didn't work on her, suggesting that she is simply incapable of feeling lust. Sure her gender identity is female, and she does have a boyfriend, but she is also stuck in a pre-pubecent state.

konzill wrote: Isn't Jade asexual? IIRC Sara's power completly didn't work on her, suggesting that she is simply incapable of feeling lust. Sure her gender identity is female, and she does have a boyfriend, but she is also stuck in a pre-pubecent state.

RIbbon may well be in the same state for much the same reason.

Jarjaross wrote: … Oh yes of course, how did we not notice that the people who don't like having sex have less sex!?[/sarcasm]

Valentine wrote: Now Poe will hold more than twice as many students, and unless there is going to be 60+ LGBT freshmen, it's only going to be half filled. Some can be transferred in, like Loophole will be, but unless they force every known or suspected LGBT student into Poe, they will need bodies to fill rooms

Kettlekorn wrote:

Valentine wrote: Now Poe will hold more than twice as many students, and unless there is going to be 60+ LGBT freshmen, it's only going to be half filled. Some can be transferred in, like Loophole will be, but unless they force every known or suspected LGBT student into Poe, they will need bodies to fill rooms

Why do the rooms need to be filled, though? Poe is the head-case cottage. It is not strange for Poe to not be filled, just as it is not strange for Hawthorne to not be filled.

As Anna finished drying her hair, Mrs. Nelson came around and checked with her. “Anna? We have three new girls moving in today.”

Anna sort of frowned at the idea. “Three? Isn’t that gonna be really crowded?”

The housemother smiled a little, “Yes Anna, it will be, but we’ll move some girls upstairs and work it out, just as we always do.”

Sir Lee wrote: So, while Poe is potentially much larger than it was, right on Labor Day when the students begin to trickle in it may in fact be a bit smaller than in the previous term.

Astrodragon wrote: Would you want to live with the whack-jobs if you didn't have to?

Malady wrote:

Sir Lee wrote: So, while Poe is potentially much larger than it was, right on Labor Day when the students begin to trickle in it may in fact be a bit smaller than in the previous term.

I wonder what would happen if there isn't enough room for all the students in Poe?

Sir Lee wrote: ...no Solange, no Traduce... but two out of three of the school's most notorious pranksters (Beltane and Generator), storm clouds in the hallway, a Section 33, a former Necromancer henchwoman, miscellaneous Kimba craziness, a girl with a brick-killing sword, a student with a whole shooting gallery's worth of targets painted on her back (Kayda), a possibility of a demon-in-residence if Sara's disappearance is solved...

elrodw wrote:

Sir Lee wrote: ...no Solange, no Traduce... but two out of three of the school's most notorious pranksters (Beltane and Generator), storm clouds in the hallway, a Section 33, a former Necromancer henchwoman, miscellaneous Kimba craziness, a girl with a brick-killing sword, a student with a whole shooting gallery's worth of targets painted on her back (Kayda), a possibility of a demon-in-residence if Sara's disappearance is solved...

White buffalos charging up and down the hallways...

Dawnfyre wrote: I would never place an asexual character in Poe unless I wanted to torment them.

Someone who doesn't think about sex being surrounded with promiscuous LGBT teens the continual propositions would wind up being abusive. Being honest with what we have seen irl, the LGBT community does tend to be far more sexually active than the stock heterosexual community.

Arcanist Lupus wrote:

Dawnfyre wrote: I would never place an asexual character in Poe unless I wanted to torment them.

Someone who doesn't think about sex being surrounded with promiscuous LGBT teens the continual propositions would wind up being abusive. Being honest with what we have seen irl, the LGBT community does tend to be far more sexually active than the stock heterosexual community.

Wasn't there a microscene a while back about a girl going around dumping water on people having sex?

Arcanist Lupus wrote:

Dawnfyre wrote: I would never place an asexual character in Poe unless I wanted to torment them.

Someone who doesn't think about sex being surrounded with promiscuous LGBT teens the continual propositions would wind up being abusive. Being honest with what we have seen irl, the LGBT community does tend to be far more sexually active than the stock heterosexual community.

Wasn't there a microscene a while back about a girl going around dumping water on people having sex?

Dreamer wrote: Some Waspi Square pages on one perspective of the subject, both the page I'm linking and the page after it. Waspi Square

Jarjaross wrote:

Dreamer wrote: Some Waspi Square pages on one perspective of the subject, both the page I'm linking and the page after it. Waspi Square

Woul you be surprised if I said this was probably ine of the influences for me starting this thread?

Valentine wrote:

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: I don't see why "asexual" would need to be in Poe. Every person introduced to the Poe 'Secret', is a new chance for that secret to be leaked. The default would be not to house a student in Poe, a case needs to be made for each and every student put there.

Asexuality is hardly a dangerous thing, I've never heard of lynch mobs against people who don't like sex. No such thing as an 'Asexual Basher'.

While asexual students might be a little lonelier, may suffer a bit at the hands of unkind students in the teasing department, it's not a Poe like crisis of existence like being gay can be.

Basically, asexual students would be assigned to the cottages ignoring this totally, and they would be lost amongst the rest of the 'losers' who couldn't manage to partner up.

Nope, no bashing of Asexuals, as you call us "losers." Nothing to see here.

Phoenix Spiritus wrote:

Valentine wrote:

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: I don't see why "asexual" would need to be in Poe. Every person introduced to the Poe 'Secret', is a new chance for that secret to be leaked. The default would be not to house a student in Poe, a case needs to be made for each and every student put there.

Asexuality is hardly a dangerous thing, I've never heard of lynch mobs against people who don't like sex. No such thing as an 'Asexual Basher'.

While asexual students might be a little lonelier, may suffer a bit at the hands of unkind students in the teasing department, it's not a Poe like crisis of existence like being gay can be.

Basically, asexual students would be assigned to the cottages ignoring this totally, and they would be lost amongst the rest of the 'losers' who couldn't manage to partner up.

Nope, no bashing of Asexuals, as you call us "losers." Nothing to see here.

As I have never even had a date, let alone a romantic interlude, I think I pretty much fall into the asexual mode here too, but still, if the criteria for getting into Poe was being picked on, the entirety of the Underdogs should be there, but they are not.

The criteria for entrance to Poe is life threatening Sexual Orientation, gay, transgender or bi. Asexual orientation does not have groups of people trying to erase you from the face of the earth. Being Asexual will not lead to haters and mobs trying to discriminate against you and kill you.

While being asexual is a sexual orientation that is poorly understood and 'not main stream', it has no hatters. There is no physical danger because of it. It is not an orientation that needs protecting.

Basically, Poe's protection is not needed, so therefore keeping the secret of Poe takes precedence, and the student would be accommodated elsewhere.

Kristin Darken wrote: In fact, as I've had a chance to think about it... I think it is likely to be even less common a trait to exist among mutants than it is among the human population at large. Why? Think about the situation - evolutionary jumps via mutation. If they're going to have any value to the species... they need to be carried through reproduction to future generations. Mutants who end up with heightened libidos? or who change orientation or gender to allow for better implementation and propagation of a trait? Those are going to be common. Mutants with a trait who are asexual?

Shouldn't happen often. Certainly not as much as it happens in humans in general, right?

Ametros wrote: But that would imply there's some... Perhaps not "Intelligence" behind it all, but at least a means or mechanism for changes to be less individual/random in nature and more complementary and synergistic.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

Peter leaned back, sighing. “The short of it? Mutants are a new species. Homo neanderthalensis, Homo sapiens, Homo mutandis – or whatever they will decide to call it. Compared to the Neanderthals, we sapiens retain more youthful and childlike features. We don’t grow the heavy brow ridges of the Neanderthal adults, our eyes are proportionally larger. Also, our women show more extreme differences – Neanderthal women had poor figures compared to an average sapiens girl. Mutants continue that trend. Eyes that are slightly larger again, they average less body hair, a more extreme difference between women and men. Their women seem to have better figures, on average, and they seem to retain characteristics that we associate with youth, even into full maturity.

“For my particular investigation, it means that, by sapiens standards, mutant women seem both younger and more beautiful, on average. Mutant men are also more striking. It’s not necessarily body-builder muscular, though that is a possibility. But even the skinny geeks often have a … presence, that makes them striking and compelling.”

It didn’t take long to see the implications. “I trust you’re following my advice, and keeping this secret?”

“Definitely. I haven’t investigated, but anecdotal evidence is that mutants, as a group, are healthier, smarter, and more graceful. To scientifically prove that they’re more beautiful as well? Sounds like a recipe for hatred to me.”

“Definitely. But what about your original research topic? You were interested in the boys who changed into girls, as I recall.”

Peter nodded. “I was – I am. Here’s an odd datum. There have been many case of both em-two-eff and eff-two-em, as they sometimes call themselves.”

I required a moment to figure out those acronyms. “Alright, I get it. F2m and m2f. Go ahead.”

“If a similar mechanism was involved in both types of transformation, you would expect some sort of symmetric effect.”

“You mean, the same number of boys become girls, as girls changing into boys,” I translated. “The net effect maintaining the rough equality of sexes.”

“Exactly. And that’s what I found… at first. Actually, the trend was pretty hard to spot. I had to use a Sliced Inverse Regression.” He reached toward me to tap the magazine. “Got some flack for it, too, since I had to get some help on the subroutine libraries. The programmers think they’re all such wits. ‘What’s wrong Arendt? You can’t get enough mutie boygirls on your own? Now you need a Sliced Inverse Regression?’” He huffed. “As if those idiots had any idea! It doesn’t have anything to do with that sort of inversion! It’s about non-symmetric behavior and—”

“I know what the technique is used for,” I interrupted.

“Oh… right. Forgot who I was talking to for a moment.”

I had to steer him back onto the topic. “You were telling me what your analysis revealed.”

“Right,” Peter agreed again. “It’s hard to tell, but in the last ten years or so, the curve has started to change. It’s very possible that this is all due to small sample sizes – we’re only talking about a few dozen per year, worldwide. But the trend seems to be shifting to fewer males, more females.”

“Which way do you mean that?” I asked in confusion.

“Oh, I mean, fewer f2m, more m2f.”

“And… any clue as to why? I know that some reptiles are temperature-dependent for gender. Perhaps the effects of global warming…”

“No, nothing correlates with geography or time of year or anything. It’s just a general shift. But there is one datum that might be related.”

“What’s that?”

“Fecundity. Mutant females seem to be… how can I put it?”

“Attractive?”

“Enthusiastic,” he replied. “Very active, sexually. And, as a group, they bear more children than comparable sapiens from the same culture and social class.”

I stumbled on his logical leap. “How does that relate to the number of boys that change into girls? Aside from the ‘good times’ you’re implying that they’ll have.”

“That doesn’t matter at all,” Peter countered. “At least, not in the species sense. What matters is that a new species must establish itself. For any new species, its top priority is to breed, its second priority is to survive. But the breeding is more important, because even if the species as a whole fails, a few better adapted individuals may survive to create the next generation of the species, better adapted.”

“Okay, sure,” I nodded. “Classic Darwinian evolution. So how does this impact your gender changelings?”

“Well, the ultimate in species fecundity would be a species of 99% females and a single, very busy male. Are you following me?”

It suddenly became all too clear. “The more female mutants there are, the more reproduction, and the larger the next generation.”

“Exactly.” He looked worried. “There’s one last thing, but I almost hesitate to mention it.”

I looked at him oddly. Peter wasn’t usually shy in presenting his opinion. “Let’s hear it.”

“Well… the male-to-female ratio is shifting, producing more females, as I said.”

I nodded. “Understood. Go ahead.”

“Well, the pure number of transformees is also increasing. The number of data points is very sparse, you understand. But they appear to be asymptotic.”

I had a sudden bad feeling about this.

“It should be obvious that if we speculate that the number of gender changes increase, and the number of females produced also increases… well, eventually every new mutant would be female. I mean, it’s silly, but if the trend continues…”

“What date?” I asked, already fearing the answer.

“2055.”

Kristin Darken wrote: Sadly, there are people who will hate on anything they don't understand... so ya, I wouldn't go so far as to claim there isn't need. However, I don't think its one that even Whateley, as aware as it is by nature of having to deal with changelings and altered orientations, has a 'regular' policy for (as I mentioned before).

In fact, as I've had a chance to think about it... I think it is likely to be even less common a trait to exist among mutants than it is among the human population at large. Why? Think about the situation - evolutionary jumps via mutation. If they're going to have any value to the species... they need to be carried through reproduction to future generations. Mutants who end up with heightened libidos? or who change orientation or gender to allow for better implementation and propagation of a trait? Those are going to be common. Mutants with a trait who are asexual?

Shouldn't happen often. Certainly not as much as it happens in humans in general, right?

“We’re going,” she said abruptly. “I don’t care how. We’re going.”

“What? Why?” He tried to look at the admission form she was working on, but it seemed to be about a hundred pages thick.

“Okay, I was filling this out. Listen to this. ‘Sex: Male Female Complicated’ “

“Complicated? What the hell does that mean?”

He got the sense she was staring at him, as in perfect synchronization they said, “Think alike.”

“Okay,” she continued. “So the ‘complicated’ entry cross-references sexual preference on page fourteen, but that sent me on to fill out the following on page sixty-two. ‘Please fill in as closely as possible:’

‘My powers or incidents associated with them, are/have transformed me:

‘to have no gender’

‘to become more masculine’

‘to become more feminine’

‘to exhibit characteristics of multiple genders’ “

They both focused on the second to the last line. It took a moment for Jared to realize what this meant. It was so common that they had a check box on the entry form!

“You’re right,” he agreed. “We’re going.”

E. E. Nalley wrote: More to the point, as far as faculty is concerned the entire student body is asexual. Because if they are caught not being asexual, they'll get expelled.

E. E. Nalley wrote: More to the point, as far as faculty is concerned the entire student body is asexual. Because if they are caught not being asexual, they'll get expelled.

elrodw wrote:

E. E. Nalley wrote: More to the point, as far as faculty is concerned the entire student body is asexual. Because if they are caught not being asexual, they'll get expelled.

Note the key words - "if they are caught'.

Now, having said that, it's quite possible for a person who's asexual to blend in by smiling or laughing at the locker room jokes, making vague references to desire (e.g. "yeah, she'd be a fun roll in the hay"), and so on in the same way gays used to - and sometimes still have to - feign heterosexuality. They'd have to be careful to stay out of certain situations - isolated with a girl or guy they've been overheard joking "I'd do him (or her)" - where that cover would be tested. But there's are strategies like the one I employed in the Army - my training platoon identified and 'corrected' anyone who was a virgin, and that included me. I wasn't keen on the idea of a prostitute (I wanted a companion AND sex), so when I got a hint that it was going to be my turn one weekend, I somehow screwed up in front of my Drill and I got restricted to our battery area. In the Whateley setting, that'd be like asking a house-parent or counselor to more closely watch you (security concerns) or deliberately getting detention (it might help to explain WHY so it's not toilet duty in Hawthorne) or getting extra chores or such. Knowing the policy of no 'extra-curricular activities', and privacy requirements on the campus, it's hard to believe that few adults wouldn't help with cover.

I can't see the need for an asexual person to be in Poe, unlike the alternative sexuality crowd.

Valentine wrote:

elrodw wrote: Now, having said that, it's quite possible for a person who's asexual to blend in by smiling or laughing at the locker room jokes, making vague references to desire (e.g. "yeah, she'd be a fun roll in the hay"), and so on in the same way gays used to - and sometimes still have to - feign heterosexuality. They'd have to be careful to stay out of certain situations - isolated with a girl or guy they've been overheard joking "I'd do him (or her)" - where that cover would be tested. But there's are strategies like the one I employed in the Army - my training platoon identified and 'corrected' anyone who was a virgin, and that included me. I wasn't keen on the idea of a prostitute (I wanted a companion AND sex), so when I got a hint that it was going to be my turn one weekend, I somehow screwed up in front of my Drill and I got restricted to our battery area. In the Whateley setting, that'd be like asking a house-parent or counselor to more closely watch you (security concerns) or deliberately getting detention (it might help to explain WHY so it's not toilet duty in Hawthorne) or getting extra chores or such. Knowing the policy of no 'extra-curricular activities', and privacy requirements on the campus, it's hard to believe that few adults wouldn't help with cover.

I can't see the need for an asexual person to be in Poe, unlike the alternative sexuality crowd.

Look at is this way, what if because of crowding, or some other reason, you need to stick an extra body into Poe. Do you stick the kid that admitted he is asexual, or a heterosexual kid?

BTW: Wasn't the Army fun in the 80s. In BASIC, a private leading us back to our barracks gave the command "Eyes Right" as we passed the swimming pool. I thought the Drill Sergeants were going to fall over from laughing.

Valentine wrote:
BTW: Wasn't the Army fun in the 80s. In BASIC, a private leading us back to our barracks gave the command "Eyes Right" as we passed the swimming pool. I thought the Drill Sergeants were going to fall over from laughing.

Arcanist Lupus wrote:

Valentine wrote:
BTW: Wasn't the Army fun in the 80s. In BASIC, a private leading us back to our barracks gave the command "Eyes Right" as we passed the swimming pool. I thought the Drill Sergeants were going to fall over from laughing.

I'm afraid that I lack the context to understand this anecdote. What does the command "eyes right" mean in this context (or any context, really)?

Arcanist Lupus wrote:

Valentine wrote:
BTW: Wasn't the Army fun in the 80s. In BASIC, a private leading us back to our barracks gave the command "Eyes Right" as we passed the swimming pool. I thought the Drill Sergeants were going to fall over from laughing.

I'm afraid that I lack the context to understand this anecdote. What does the command "eyes right" mean in this context (or any context, really)?

JG wrote:

Jarjaross wrote: Are there any Asexual characters at Whateley? I'm not talking about someone with GSD that makes them genetically asexual or unable to breed/have sex. I'm asking about a normalish student who just doesn't feel much if any sexual attraction.

If so, who? Because I have clearly missed that character.

If you don't mind a spoiler... eldritch.

She no longer has the biological reactions to people, and given her history, she's more or less going to be "shut off" sexually for an indefinite period.

Partly because not having her be so hits my squick factor given the setting. Hard.

Partly because she's no longer made of flesh and bone.

Partly because of Cat McQuiston.

Any relation/attraction would have to be purely on a personality/intellect level. The visceral, instinctive reactions just aren't there.