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8 years 2 months ago #1 by GrimGrendel

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For those of you who read Heyoka 3: Survival Class before it got lost, could you describe what happened during that class? I'd like to write about a survival class at some point, but at the same time I don't want to make it completely different from something that got established before.

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8 years 2 months ago - 8 years 2 months ago #2 by Malady

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Yeah, the New Arrivals Select Fail. Had that too.

Answer: Nothing other than emphasizing Training, and "Lack of information can be fatal", showing Buttercup, and Rupert Corvington as an example of a very good Survival student.

Aquerna might be actually give better glimpses. ... I ship Heyoka X Buttercup now... He can't look away!

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8 years 2 months ago - 8 years 2 months ago #3 by Esar

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I haven't but we have other examples :
- with Imp as a substitute teacher (so it was not a standard class)
- With Eric Mahren as a guest

You could also look at some of the combat finals from those students who have had this particular class (for example Heyoka's final)

Last Edit: 8 years 2 months ago by Esar.

8 years 2 months ago #4 by Astrodragon

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There is also Tia's survival class in Gen2; the style probably hasn't changed that much

I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.

8 years 2 months ago #5 by GrimGrendel

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If I remember correctly, we haven't yet seen Tia taking her survival class. We just know it's on her schedule.

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8 years 2 months ago #6 by Astrodragon

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IDTWIKA Part 6, iirc

I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.

8 years 2 months ago #7 by konzill

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One of Gateway's stories has a short section in Survival class. It seems to involved a fair bit of Parkour.

8 years 2 months ago #8 by DanZilla

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It's part of the Physical Education programs so there's always going to be a fair amount of physical activities like running, hiking, games involving dodging or evasion, hiding and parkour... but there's also the mental and preparedness aspects as well.

8 years 2 months ago #9 by GrimGrendel

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Astrodragon wrote: IDTWIKA Part 6, iirc

And here I was relying on the wiki thinking I was up to date with Gen2 (wiki ends at IDTWIKA part 4). Have some catching up to do ^^

Would bully management tactics and learning how to defuse intimidation attempts fit with the scope of the class?

Up for review: Magpies 1 - Flock (Part 1)

8 years 2 months ago #10 by Sir Lee

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One interesting detail is that Razorback took Survival instead of Martial Arts. On first glance one would wonder "why?" since he topped the UV list for about a whole year, that is, when he gets into a fight usually it's the other guy who has to worry.
But thinking about it, it makes sense. Razor is a rager; lots of times he does not WANT to fight, but someone triggers him anyway. And lots of times he feels bad about it later. So what Survival teaches him are "fight avoidance" techniques, so he can avoid hurting other people.

Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.

8 years 2 months ago #11 by Bladedancer

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In some of the Chou stories I talk about Molly's Survival class, more than a few moments, covering a number of areas of concern. Check Five Elements Dancing and Gong Hai Fat Choi.

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8 years 2 months ago #12 by Nagrij

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Survival class is all about (if you'll forgive me) surviving. Not fighting is pretty much the easiest way to survive a conflict. The class teaches surroundings and situational awareness, and threat assessment. Assuming a given person can't just run, the runner-up idea is to defuse tensions as best one can. Expect levels of BS on par with police hostage negotiators or trained psychologists. Anything to resolve a situation with as few casualties (injured or killed) as possible.

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8 years 2 months ago #13 by JG

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learning how to hide is also huge

8 years 2 months ago #14 by Polk Kitsune

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Hrmmmm. This is probably where I'd be corrected, but I'd like to do a bit of theory on what other scenarios might be covered. I'm going with broad strokes here though. Haven't read everything here, but...

Survival might also cover, for example, survival in the wilds, including resources like potable water and food sources. Cases like harsh climates, if you were stranded in the desert, or in the arctics. Being able to lay traps can go both for stopping pursuit, and catching small preys. Or in more urban scenarios, how to navigate around those kind of terrains, or being able to get what you need in a country where you don't understand the language (darn those teleportation incidents).

You also mention how to defuse hostage situations, you might also have to include how to survive being the hostage. When is the best time to cooperate, and when it's best to book it. You do have to evaluate which is which, and sometimes, your getaway can get you, and a whole lot of people injured/killed.

At the same time, you may also want to consider survival is you're a prisoner or trapped. It's one of those worst case scenarios, but it can happen, and if you hope to live to see another day, you need to be kept fed, morale high, and formulate some escape plan if your rescue isn't coming.

And if you're a supervillain... Or heck, actually, anyone with a base, proper escape pods or other emergency exits might help. Getaway vehicles might help.

First aid might be covered, along with the assembly of a good survival kit.

And I get a feeling the accompanied documentation to the class is "Common Sense: the Basics" (unfortunately, out of print).

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8 years 2 months ago #15 by Nagrij

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Polk Kitsune wrote: Hrmmmm. This is probably where I'd be corrected, but I'd like to do a bit of theory on what other scenarios might be covered. I'm going with broad strokes here though. Haven't read everything here, but...

Survival might also cover, for example, survival in the wilds, including resources like potable water and food sources. Cases like harsh climates, if you were stranded in the desert, or in the arctics. Being able to lay traps can go both for stopping pursuit, and catching small preys. Or in more urban scenarios, how to navigate around those kind of terrains, or being able to get what you need in a country where you don't understand the language (darn those teleportation incidents).

You also mention how to defuse hostage situations, you might also have to include how to survive being the hostage. When is the best time to cooperate, and when it's best to book it. You do have to evaluate which is which, and sometimes, your getaway can get you, and a whole lot of people injured/killed.

At the same time, you may also want to consider survival is you're a prisoner or trapped. It's one of those worst case scenarios, but it can happen, and if you hope to live to see another day, you need to be kept fed, morale high, and formulate some escape plan if your rescue isn't coming.

And if you're a supervillain... Or heck, actually, anyone with a base, proper escape pods or other emergency exits might help. Getaway vehicles might help.

First aid might be covered, along with the assembly of a good survival kit.

And I get a feeling the accompanied documentation to the class is "Common Sense: the Basics" (unfortunately, out of print).

You're not wrong, but most of what you're mentioning is survival 2 instead... assuming gen 2 time frame of course.

And Joe, pls. Running and hiding is implied in all of the above. "Exterminate! Exterminate!" was the very first class, after all.

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8 years 2 months ago #16 by JG

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Now I have to write Razorback's escape from the Dalek invasion.

Nevermind I already did that.

You saw nothing.

8 years 2 months ago #17 by Domoviye

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JG please stop giving my muse ideas.

8 years 2 months ago #18 by JG

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Domoviye wrote: JG please stop giving my muse ideas.

No.

8 years 2 months ago #19 by Nagrij

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JG wrote:
Domoviye wrote: JG please stop giving my muse ideas.

No.

Survival 3: how to survive trolling writers with an overactive muse.

Sign me up.

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8 years 2 months ago #20 by Yolandria

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Exterminate! Exterminate! Exterminaaaaaate!!!!

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8 years 2 months ago #21 by Valentine

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JG wrote: learning how to hide is also huge

Do you mean?

How Not To Be Seen

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8 years 2 months ago - 8 years 2 months ago #22 by Echo

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Valentine wrote:
JG wrote: learning how to hide is also huge

Do you mean?

How Not To Be Seen

Hiding in plain sight: magically mimicking common street furniture (a Survival breakout session for mages, held during winter term)
They might look in dumpsters or planters during a pursuit but they probably won't look at them if they are not (obviously) out of place.

Last Edit: 8 years 2 months ago by Echo.

8 years 2 months ago #23 by NJM1564

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JG wrote: Now I have to write Razorback's escape from the Dalek invasion.

Nevermind I already did that.

You saw nothing.

Doesn't he just crack them open and eat the squishy innards?

8 years 2 months ago #24 by Kristin Darken

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Survival is a semester long version of Extreme Dodgeball.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.

8 years 2 months ago #25 by DanZilla

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Kristin Darken wrote: Survival is a semester long version of Extreme Dodgeball.

Occasionally wrenches are used.

8 years 2 months ago #26 by Phoenix Spiritus

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DanZilla wrote:
Kristin Darken wrote: Survival is a semester long version of Extreme Dodgeball.

~~Occasionally~~ Always at least wrenches are used.

Fixed that for you.

8 years 2 months ago #27 by GrimGrendel

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Kristin Darken wrote: Survival is a semester long version of Extreme Dodgeball.

The Daleks made that quite clear from the very first lesson. xD

I had a few ideas on brining the survival class more in line with BMA levels of difficulty and depth. If Arena 77 is well equipped with bots and simulations, would it be a stretch to have different scenarios to be taken by the students individually or in group to cover a specific theme of survival? Would there be supplementary readings on mob psychology and how to weaponize confusion, with maybe a few homework to be handed in before class?

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8 years 2 months ago #28 by Nagrij

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GrimGrendel wrote:
Kristin Darken wrote: Survival is a semester long version of Extreme Dodgeball.
The Daleks made that quite clear from the very first lesson. xD

I had a few ideas on brining the survival class more in line with BMA levels of difficulty and depth. If Arena 77 is well equipped with bots and simulations, would it be a stretch to have different scenarios to be taken by the students individually or in group to cover a specific theme of survival? Would there be supplementary readings on mob psychology and how to weaponize confusion, with maybe a few homework to be handed in before class?

I'm pretty sure that's already covered in gen 1, where large simulations bringing those subjects into play are used. Maybe I'm misremembering, but whether I am or not, I'm also pretty sure that sort of thing will be covered in gen 2.

Well, everything but the homework. Doubtless, the Daleks will sabotage all assignments with paint if the students are unwary. In survival, even turning in homework is an adventure!

Maybe I should drink my morning coffee before I respond to posts.

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8 years 2 months ago #29 by Astrodragon

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While the initial (non-optional) Survival class is live practice, there's nothing to say follow-up courses could be a lecture class. We've just never got that far into the Survival syllabus.
It could teach things like how to blend in while working, getting fake ID, what to do (and how to get) if you need unusual supplies, and so on.

I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.

8 years 2 months ago #30 by Kristin Darken

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Just a reminder to keep things from getting confused... most Survival classes would be in either a regular classroom or one of the arenas. Not the sims. I know the arena simulated environments with false buildings and ANTs is 'easy' to call sims, but the 'sims' are a special system using VR that most first year students don't get put into during the Gen 1 timeline. Why? a few reasons... special suits need to be made for students to use the sims. The sims need to be calibrated in a way that locks down the real powers so simulated actions don't result in actual power use. The student's power set needs to be identified in enough detail for the sims programmers to create it accurately in the programming/database.

Would having the sims be available for Survival be a good thing? No, not really... because when you consider how VR sims work, you'll realize that for the most part, the training you do in them only really benefits knowledge base and psychological elements. Sim training does not aid in actual power control or development. It doesn't help with muscle memory or stamina training. Things that real combat and survival needs for success.

The sims are most valuable in combat tactic training, where things are on a scale too large to do with actual live body training, or in training mental response and psychological limit aspects. A great example is Dark Phoenix style scenarios. Something you can't really do live... and hope never have to.

For the rest of the time, quick set up false fronts and ANT's in the arenas are far preferable. Especially for training in covering ground, climbing, finding cover, and keeping moving to stay alive. Using those real world muscles and senses is how they get honed to keep you from being dead.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.

8 years 2 months ago #31 by GrimGrendel

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Thanks for the clarification. I meant the arenas and ANT AIs.

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8 years 2 months ago #32 by JG

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The reason why survival class used the sims in Parkour Jam Hooligans was so that Mahren and Wilson could demonstrate a chase-evasion against a more powerful opponent while not having to restrain themselves even slightly. So the kids could see what a real-life chase between an Exemplar 6 and his asininely malicious prey might actually play out.

8 years 2 months ago #33 by Arcanist Lupus

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In other words, the sims and the arenas specialize in different types of realism. The sims can achieve situations that can't be done safely or within budget, and the arenas can achieve physics and physical fitness that the sims can't touch.

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8 years 2 months ago #34 by Nagrij

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Arcanist Lupus wrote: In other words, the sims and the arenas specialize in different types of realism. The sims can achieve situations that can't be done safely or within budget, and the arenas can achieve physics and physical fitness that the sims can't touch.

True, but in Gen 2 with some tech advances, the line between the arenas and the sims is blurring. Something I will touch on a bit later, with one of the later classes.

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8 years 2 months ago #35 by Kristin Darken

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Ya, my comment is especially oriented towards Gen 1. In Gen 2, there are lots more possibilities available via both VR sims AND hard light environments, which supplement and expand on the possibilities of the regular arenas by a lot.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.

8 years 2 months ago #36 by NJM1564

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Phoenix Spiritus wrote:
DanZilla wrote:
Kristin Darken wrote: Survival is a semester long version of Extreme Dodgeball.

~~Occasionally~~ Always at least electric exploding chainsaw wrenches are used.

Fixed that for you.

Still wrong. Should be good now.

8 years 2 months ago #37 by Valentine

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The new Whateley game, Dodge Grenade.

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8 years 2 months ago #38 by Astrodragon

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Next up in survival class : juggling chainsaws to teach them to fight zombies.

I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.

8 years 2 months ago #39 by Nagrij

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Astrodragon wrote: Next up in survival class : juggling chainsaws to teach them to fight zombies.

Groovy.

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8 years 2 months ago #40 by amratner

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Where was that covered? I remember it being mentioned that Razorback helped by playing "Red Team" for survival exams, but nothing of his taking the course.

8 years 2 months ago #41 by JG

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it was a footnote.

Razor (and most of the Outcasts) tend to double-load self-defense courses. Razor prefers survival to speedster combat class because he's not surrounded by people he's mauled the crap out of at one point or another.

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