Question Aboriginals from places other than the midwestern plains (like say the rockies)

This is a point I've harped on before (in my head at least) but I'd like to bring up the issue again. I'm sorry if any of you are tired of me talking about it (if I ever posted any of my previous thoughts) I'm certainly tired of noticing it.

There is a rather disproportionate representation of Aboriginals* of the midwestern planes and great lakes area and a lack of other Aboriginal cultures, relevant to this post is the lack of those from the rockies but I'd love to see some Aztec or Inuit (thank you slapshots) because I like being exposed to diversity.

The reason I bring this up is whenever I read a Kayda story (a rare occurence at this point because I hate how Elrod torchers her, I like her when she's not depressing) that involves some form of Lakota culture I am reminded of its absence. Especially since a lot of other aboriginal cultures are pulled in from having interacted with the Lakota. The people in the rockies (particularly northern BC) didn't have any direct interaction with the Lakota to my knowledge, thus they are not represented.

I actually see that as a good thing. Bringing them in would imply the cultures are comparable, possibly even equitable. This is not the case, just as you would not say italy and russia have the same culture for being born on the same continent.

What I see as a travesty is the fact the one of the most culturally diverse areas of the world gets little to not acknowledgement in any story. Mostly when the term 'all nations' is thrown around (I know it is not said much but it bothers me any time I see it).

I'm not saying there should be a main character from the Rockies. I don't believe in forced diversity. I'm saying there should be some recognition given to the fact that not all cultures that were here before the european settlement were from the plains. I'd accpect a line or two from side characters about how buffalo hunts have nothing to do with their culture (it comes up once but thats it).

Maybe Elrod heard my earlier complaints took them to heart and put them into kayda 10 part 3, I haven't been able to read it without becoming disgusted by the fact they are going back to 'I have no friends and hate it here' Kayda. If they have this post is pointless other than providing a topic to discuss myths that could bring about good avatars and thus should probably be moved to the quad.

Many of you are probably wondering why a white person would post about this, and it is pretty simple really. I know/am related to/am sort of related to a bunch of Aboriginals from northern BC, I find their culture fascinating, and I find it annoying when media completely overlooks the single most linguistically diverse place on the planet because it doesn't fit into their idea of 'cowboys and indians.'

*the Canadian term for first nations. Some prefer it, others like native, some use native american or Canadian, The First People is quite popular, really whatever name the individual or tribe chooses is what you should use when addressing them, even then there are more polite and accurate terms you could use. Since I am addressing such a broad spectrum I'm using Aboriginal as it is an official term.

I think you might be looking for Inuit

Perhaps you missed Kodiak's ties to the Inuit?
Mule is a Seminole, they are originally from Florida.
Riptide is Aztec or something from Mexico
Aztech is oddly Cuban
Slapshot is a Chippewa from Canada
Stormwolf is a Ute
Totem is from one of the North East tribes (he was from the upper New York area originally)

But the thing is, no one is writing about these characters. And while the plains tribes are known for hunting buffalo, you might want to look at the range of the buffalo... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison#/me...of_bison_to_1889.svg

Jarjaross wrote: There is a rather disproportionate representation of Aboriginals* of the midwestern planes and great lakes area and a lack of other Aboriginal cultures, relevant to this post is the lack of those from the rockies but I'd love to see some Aztec or Inuit (thank you slapshots) because I like being exposed to diversity.

How did you not notice that one of the supporting characters in Nacht's stories has Aztec ancestry?

Did it ever occur to you that - just maybe - the canon authors do not want to write stories about First Nations cultures they don't know or understand very well?

Okay so I knew stormwolf, but not Mule, I hadn't seen Slapshot (not sure how I missed him), with how Totem is portrayed I couldn't get a read on the direct whereabouts thank you for that, I thought Riptide was from further south maybe I'm mixing up my mezoamerican cultures. Aztech being cuban feels oddly right to me with how people just make assumptions about that empire, they were problably named by a white MCO agent who had no idea what culture they should be mentioning.

Also I know the bison have a huge range, but from rather constant exposure when I think traddition Aboriginal hunt I think salmon. Also you'll note that I include the great lakes area in my statements.

Null I'm not sugguesting that. I even said that I didn't want forced diversity. What I want is more acknowledgement of the cultures. My problem is that they are there but not explored or developed on the simplest level. If these character gain anything from these origins it is often just background detail or stereotype (not on purpose but bringing in a culture will bring in stereotypes about that culture). I don't want them to be forced into stories or roles that they shouldn't have.

Aggh. I'm frustrated and tired and lost my point somewhere.

Look my biggest issue is with a story that is gone and past. The Aboriginal training team thing. As soon as Kadya takes over we only see and hear about them doing things involving bison hunts and horseback riding but no one brings up salmon runs and caneoing or caribou hunts and dog sledding or anything at all after the first bit of minor resistance. They are supposed to be doing all forms of traditional activities but we never hear of them doing anything related to any non-plains culture. Not even in the stories where Kayda isn't a major figure.

You might have missed a few others.

Pristine : Huron (canada)

And several others on the Nations roster. However a lot of them are not detailed on tribal affiliations.

Most of those I looked up in the Wiki, but I remembered Mule because Gunny ripped Kayda a new one after she put Mule in charge of tactics. Gunny wanted to know what a swamp dwelling native knew about hunting buffalo. Totem's history is part of the Mystic Six history, probably in one of the early Tennyo stories.

Remember that until Kayda came around, there were no The Nations training teams, nor was there even a recognized group. But almost all of the characters existed in Canon.

Kayda very enthusiastically wanted the others to come up with sims of their own. It was very hard for her to convince the group that was informally meeting and doing little more than drum circles to change in the first place. The boys became more enthusiastic when she brought up hunting in the sims, and a lot of the girls were resistant.

Gunny is using his variations of plains tribe sims to harass the club because those are the ones programmed in first.

I'd say give it time.

edit:
By the way, the US Rockies aren't much different from the plains to the east. For the Salish and Kootenai, swap in elk for buffalo, use fish traps, and do more gathering of bitterroot and huckleberries, but overall they're quite similar.

Jarjaross wrote: I thought Riptide was from further south maybe I'm mixing up my mezoamerican cultures. Aztech being cuban feels oddly right to me with how people just make assumptions about that empire, they were problably named by a white MCO agent who had no idea what culture they should be mentioning.

Neither Riptide nor Green Brujah are Cuban.

Even if those two characters were, that would still not make the Taíno a band of Aztecs.

Jarjaross wrote: Also I know the bison have a huge range, but from rather constant exposure when I think traddition Aboriginal hunt I think salmon. Also you'll note that I include the great lakes area in my statements.

Salmon were introduced as a sport fish in the Great Lakes in the 1800s by Europeans. Atlantic salmon do not historically run south of Long Island Sound.

Jarjaross wrote: Null I'm not sugguesting that. I even said that I didn't want forced diversity.

Then you should stop asking for your visions of diversity to be shoehorned into stories before and after claiming that you don't want forced diversity.

Wow. I'm amazed at what the community can remember in just a few hours!

... Do any other tribes / nations have a Great Savior thing that could be made into a hero like the Ptesanwi... Or is it Pteswani? Wiki says former, but I've seen latter too, when searching the site with Google...

I'd like to apologize for this post. Finals are coming up and it was late. So I was tired and stressed so things that don't normally bother me that much were more noticable. I try to never post in that state but reading Would the Last One Out Please Turn Out the Lights (as stress relief by the way) kinda brought it all to the forefront.

Ps. Pristine is Huron? I thought she was from Vancouver.

PPs. Null could you please stop responding to anything I post? You always misinterpret it to the point where it feels like your doing it on purpose and that doesn't help with my stress. Actually it makes you seem kinda mean from my point of view. Also you can complain about a flaw in somethings diversity without wanting a half assed fix. Someone could spend some time doing research into the various culutres. I don't expect them to or want them to, they don't have the time and I would rather they keep their jobs so they are able to continue to provide us with quality material. All I'm saying is it would be nice.

What you might want to do, when you have time is write a fanfic scene where several of the members of The Nations do a sim of a Salmon run, or if you aren't up to actually writing it, write up a description of what goes on and politely ask if one of the authors would be wiling to add a scene based on it into their story.

About Pristine, people do move. For example I am half Polish, but I have never been to Poland and live in Illinois. So Pristine could be a Huron and come from Vancouver or Montreal or Thargomindah.

Addressing points in order:

1) Jarjaross - by the time you get a third of the way through part 4 of Kayda 10, MOST of the self-doubt is gone. From here on out, the angst-o-meter™ will not go over about 5 or 6 - certainly not up to 11 (which I'll admit I was going a little freely). Promise. My fellow cabal author were also pointing out that I was a little mean to Kayda in the self-confidence area, so your point is correct. Part 4 has a bit more - you'll need to suffer through parts 1-3 to understand all of what happens, but by a third of the way through, you'll see 'good Kayda' - and there are some sims that should be worth reading - if for nothing else than for some lines tossed about. 4 starts a complicated arc that involves 2 other major characters, and some very interesting contributions from JG. There's a sub-arc involving Danny and someone else new he encounters in the labs - in short, from about a fourth of the way through part 4, we see the new, improved Kayda, and her challenges from that point forward are more external. I can't give away a lot, but there's some really, REALLY good stuff in parts 4-6 in which Kayda has no angst. And if you saw some of what was planned for future Kayda stories - 11 forward - you'd be eager to read them just for the fun, especially since I promise the meter won't peg again.

2) When the Nations do their new member intro, we find out about more Nations that are represented, and if there's someone among the readership who's can consult on things Seminole or Inuit or such, I'll be happy to work with you to weave more into the Nations scenes and sims. As was noted, I'm very familiar with Plains Indians, but other tribes - not so much.

Note - I have not complained (at least not that I INTEND to) about your comments. In many ways, they're on-point, and it's occasionally helpful to get a nudge (or kick in the ass) to remind me that I'm going overboard. I welcome feedback, even if it's not positive.

If anyone thinks that I'm offended by what Jarjaross writes, please don't worry about me. He hasn't been caustic or vicious, but polite even when dissenting. As to misconstruing each other, I would ask you not to.

So - to add future adventures with other tribes: Perhaps I should have an Inuit setting where they hunt seals or are beset by a polar bear? Northeast tribes fishing for salmon? For crafts, clearly making silver & turquoise jewelry a la desert southwest tribes is cool. Weaving? Tanning? Suggest away, please. I'm not trying to be snarky, just toss out some ideas that I can work in to sims or crafts or such. Someone asked about native Hawaiians - that's a thought I hadn't considered.

In short, I want suggestions about what to do with The Nations (besides kill them all when a satellite falls on them during a camping trip after an emotionally-angsty event!).

Valentine wrote: What you might want to do, when you have time is write a fanfic scene where several of the members of The Nations do a sim of a Salmon run, or if you aren't up to actually writing it, write up a description of what goes on and politely ask if one of the authors would be wiling to add a scene based on it into their story.

About Pristine, people do move. For example I am half Polish, but I have never been to Poland and live in Illinois. So Pristine could be a Huron and come from Vancouver or Montreal or Thargomindah.

Thats a great idea. I unfortunately know next to nothing about the actual method which were used in salmon hunting and have never been invited on a fishing trip by my cousin (he's married in to my family) to get a more contemporary view. Surprise surprise its not something white city folk get invited to.

On the other hand I have been invited to and joined in on various celebrations such as potlucks and a wedding. Those I could possibly (actually quite easily) write a short scene on. Not at the school unfortunately (for a traditional potluck anyway, that amount of wealth just doesn't really happen at a high school level).

Heck I wouldn't even want a non-exemplar showing off the tradtiional outfits that were worn in northern BC. An exemplar would probabaly be fine, or a regenerator. I'll have to think about that.

Probably won't be me writing it, for reasons I'll reveal when I finally finish Abby's story.

As to the moving thing, yeah I can see that. A friend of mine is Metis.

elrodw wrote: So - to add future adventures with other tribes: Perhaps I should have an Inuit setting where they hunt seals or are beset by a polar bear? Northeast tribes fishing for salmon? For crafts, clearly making silver & turquoise jewelry a la desert southwest tribes is cool. Weaving? Tanning? Suggest away, please. I'm not trying to be snarky, just toss out some ideas that I can work in to sims or crafts or such. Someone asked about native Hawaiians - that's a thought I hadn't considered.

In short, I want suggestions about what to do with The Nations (besides kill them all when a satellite falls on them during a camping trip after an emotionally-angsty event!).

Sugguestions and maybe even some descriptions I can offer. After finals are over and I have time to do some indepth research to make sure I'm not getting anything wrong.

Pertinent that you should ask about crafts I left a rather baiting statement in my previous post (I didn't want to go off on a tangent but did want to talk about the tangent so I left a thing for people to ask about). Some of the tribes (quite a lot really) of northern BC would traditionally wear clothing made of cedar. There is a fascinating process to turn the soft wood into something resembling a cloth.

The reason they don't wear them anymore is because cedar is poisonous. Because of their clothing choices they had one of the shortest life expectencies of the time. Shorter than european life expectancies, (which is only impressive if your know that europeans had much shorter life expectancies than the Aboriginals due to the Aboriginals having better medical practices in general, even if they understood less of how the body worked europe was just a terrible place to get medical treatment for about 1700 years).

elrodw wrote: In short, I want suggestions about what to do with The Nations (besides kill them all when a satellite falls on them during a camping trip after an emotionally-angsty event!).

How about a traditional dog-sled race held at the Big Cypress Indian Reservation? With Gunny Bardue along as a participant, after that "swamp-dwelling" crack at Mule's expense.

In honer of Mule an snapping turtle or alligator hunt in natives did something like that. Lead the non natives on a snipe hunt.

null0trooper wrote:

elrodw wrote: In short, I want suggestions about what to do with The Nations (besides kill them all when a satellite falls on them during a camping trip after an emotionally-angsty event!).

How about a traditional dog-sled race held at the Big Cypress Indian Reservation? With Gunny Bardue along as a participant, after that "swamp-dwelling" crack at Mule's expense.

We can use Bloodwolf, Techwolf, Lupine and any other dog/wolf types to pull the sled.

Valentine wrote:

null0trooper wrote:

elrodw wrote: In short, I want suggestions about what to do with The Nations (besides kill them all when a satellite falls on them during a camping trip after an emotionally-angsty event!).

How about a traditional dog-sled race held at the Big Cypress Indian Reservation? With Gunny Bardue along as a participant, after that "swamp-dwelling" crack at Mule's expense.

We can use Bloodwolf, Techwolf, Lupine and any other dog/wolf types to pull the sled.

Bloodwolf. He considers himself a top predator, so that could work

sam105 wrote: In honer of Mule an snapping turtle or alligator hunt in natives did something like that. Lead the non natives on a snipe hunt.

I had an idea for having Metro (one of my OCs) and Bladedancer being sent out on a snipe hunt. Because Security would do that during a slow week. Or rather, either Coyote, Raven, Loki, or Sun Wukong would find it hilarious to make it look like a bored dispatcher would do that. Maybe with Carl playing the designated snipe ...

a) I suggested dogsledding because it provides opportunities for angst and dark humor as the kids find out how much alligators love fresh dog meat, and how fast those reptiles can sprint. (One even caught a jogger up in Broward Co. a few years ago. And yes, they can go up to a house and pound on a door. That's not an urban legend.)

b) I thought Mule was from Missouri, or someplace where he'd be associated with the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, not necessarily with the Seminole Tribe of Florida or the Miccosukee Tribe of Indians of Florida. To either group, and Floridians in general for well-publicized reasons, it makes a huge difference.

It's more funny if he's never been to Big Cypress, ENP, etc., but then the "swamp-dwelling" comment becomes more egregious.

c) Hunting alligator snapping turtle? Seriously. Not. Funny. I've seen rednecks hit the brakes on a U.S. Highway to help a turtle off the road. (Not as easy as you'd think. The critters want to go where they want to go.) It's listed as an Imperiled Species by the State of Florida. (The Gopher Tortoise is listed as Threatened, and you'd have to slow down to tell what kind of quadruped you're dealing with anyway.)


But alligators can be harvested if the kids want a nighttime hunt in the sims and a good meal afterwards.

Other game animals could include white-tailed deer, wild turkey (my father always swore those birds were smarter than most hunters), rabbit, raccoon, and black bear, although obviously fish and shellfish would also have been part of the diet. Smoked mullet is awesome.

Also, the peninsula (Timucua) and Caribbean islands (Taíno) is where barbacoa is from.

Kristin Darken wrote: The story parallels the Iron Rules, the foundation tenets of the Sufi Order of Chivalry and has some references that go back into the interaction of the Sufi and the Egyptian gods.

That should be interesting. Sufi philosophy and mysticism are things I don't know much about.

Kristin Darken wrote: But remember that there's a limit to how much we can do. The more real cultural detail involved, the more complex a story is to write without making mistakes or being guilty of 'cultural appropriation' or simply getting into a corner where the amount of research isn't worth the recognition its going to get. Which would you rather Elrod do, for example: write fast enough to release 1-2 story parts per month... or write more historically / culturally involved pieces at a rate of 1 per season (and the possibility that his muse won't play on the cultural piece and he sometimes gets stuck with nothing at all)?

Or, the author can go to work on the story only to find out that there's no way that the story proposed can be resolved in the intended manner within that culture.

No one's drawing a salary to produce the stories, so what I'd rather Elrod do is write the stories that interest him and he feels good about, at a pace that works for him. Everyone needs downtime once in a while, or the opportunity to take a chance on something that might not pan out, so however the pace works out, works.

That inherently means that the answer to some of my horrible ideas suggestions should be "I do not want to write that." YMWV