Question Alchemy

Does the Alchemy class work best/only recommend for those who have a wiz trait or other wise are magically active?

Cryptic wrote: Does the Alchemy class work best/only recommend for those who have a wiz trait or other wise are magically active?

Yep! Alchemy is NOT 'Magical Chemistry'. Chemistry is an impersonal process that can be done by automated machines mixing and heating the proper materials in the proper combinations at the proper temperatures in the proper sequence. Alchemy directly involves the Alchemist

Just don't try to explain to Eldritch why you have to harvest the first new leaves of the Oak tree with a silver sickle during a full moon while naked and that old leaves she picked up off the ground won't work.

Well what won't work for you, may well work for an artificer... Then there is Eldritch's whole attitude that it is the base component that matters not usually how it was harvested.

Where the Artificer is concerned all bets are certainly off. If I had to describe how the Artificer worked, I would almost say the being is the magic and she just needs the materials. If I were to compare that to some other magic user, I would say that they depend on some sort of inherent magical properties of the materials to achieve the same result.

As for alchemy for non-Artificers. I would think being a magic user would help (a great deal), but not be required. Alchemy, traditionally was spiritual in nature, but not necessarily magical. It was viewed as an analogy for the transmutation of one's self to a more pure and perfect form. Which may well be why the Church didn't crack down on alchemy back in the day but they did go after several other things. That perfection of self part I would think could be accessible to any person willing to put in the time and effort, not just someone with magical capabilities.

MM2ss wrote: As for alchemy for non-Artificers. I would think being a magic user would help (a great deal), but not be required. Alchemy, traditionally was spiritual in nature, but not necessarily magical. It was viewed as an analogy for the transmutation of one's self to a more pure and perfect form. Which may well be why the Church didn't crack down on alchemy back in the day but they did go after several other things. That perfection of self part I would think could be accessible to any person willing to put in the time and effort, not just someone with magical capabilities.

For some magicians, alchemy as practiced in Europe and the Middle East might be so foreign to their tradition that it becomes something that they see as a waste of their time (I.e., I wouldn't expect to see Kayda taking an alchemy class.)

I'd agree that there is always a chance of a diligent human student of alchemy or qabbalah awakening their spiritual/magical potential. The trouble is that in becoming aware of the magical or spiritual world around you, it becomes aware of you. (Yet another reason for people to be very cautious about associating with magic users and spirits)

null0trooper wrote:

MM2ss wrote: As for alchemy for non-Artificers. I would think being a magic user would help (a great deal), but not be required. Alchemy, traditionally was spiritual in nature, but not necessarily magical. It was viewed as an analogy for the transmutation of one's self to a more pure and perfect form. Which may well be why the Church didn't crack down on alchemy back in the day but they did go after several other things. That perfection of self part I would think could be accessible to any person willing to put in the time and effort, not just someone with magical capabilities.

For some magicians, alchemy as practiced in Europe and the Middle East might be so foreign to their tradition that it becomes something that they see as a waste of their time (I.e., I wouldn't expect to see Kayda taking an alchemy class.)

I'd agree that there is always a chance of a diligent human student of alchemy or qabbalah awakening their spiritual/magical potential. The trouble is that in becoming aware of the magical or spiritual world around you, it becomes aware of you. (Yet another reason for people to be very cautious about associating with magic users and spirits)

I wonder how the herbs that Kayda uses in her practice relate to alchemy, and how a study of alchemy might affect her use of such items as part of her spell.

I'm not at all convinced that what Eldrich is doing is alchemy.

From the evidence, she's doing enchantment, often associated with mettalurgy. The only use she'd have for a cauldron is to brew her coffee in it...

Oh yes, as a Marine, Eldritch will probably be a coffee addict, I can just see her getting a cauldron to brew it in just to give Mrs Grimes a headache!

A big part would likely depend on how one defines alchemy. Eldritch certainly transmutes materials. So in that sense you could argue it is related to or an informal version of alchemy. Kayda on the other hand does not seem to be changing one material to another, but rather changing the material from one form into another form (from raw herbal form to tea for example). That, to me, would rule out the more practical forms of alchemy. Though the spiritual aspect, might get a maybe (she does so to purify herself and others in various ways).

Thus, as null0trooper says, I would not expect to see her in a formalized alchemy class, unless it was one that focused on spiritual purification and perfection. Then, in that case, it would likely be to understand how others go about doing what she does, rather than to find a new way to do something she already does.

The awareness aspect is another issue as I see it. I would think a person seeking spiritual enlightenment or perfection would likely be intelligent enough to first look into the risks. I seriously doubt any casual, everyday sort of person is going to take up alchemy in a serious enough manner for that to become an issue (unless they just happened to get some formula that just happened to work in just such a way, etc.). But how often are all those perfect situations going to arise? I would judge the risk of accidental self-awakening via alchemy to be minimal. It could happen, it may have happened, it may even be possible to do it to someone else, but I would tend to lean towards saying it would require substantial effort and dedication. The people likely to put in that amount of work should be prepared to some degree for the potential results, or so I would believe.

As for coffee brewing in a cauldron, Eldritch would consider it too small. She'd be more likely to use a "submarine still" as a coffee maker. Besides, you get better coffee when you keep the water just under boiling temperature. So no "cauldron coffee" made over an open fire fed with Elder, Hazel and Willow wood.

EDIT:
I would suggest that, much like any other subject, the various magic discipline have a great deal of overlap. Thus, while one magic user might be all about enchantments, that area shares some aspects with other areas of magic, such as alchemy, rituals, etc. I think we, as most people, tend to try and pigeon hole things into nice neat divisions and groupings, even though they are still related to and involve other things.

So can we get Alchemical Coffee? Enquiring Dragon-Mages want to know....

Astrodragon wrote: So can we get Alchemical Coffee? Enquiring Dragon-Mages want to know....

Thus the end of the world began, when Nephandus figured out how to mix the devisor coffee from the workshop with alchemy to create something new.

Dreamer wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: So can we get Alchemical Coffee? Enquiring Dragon-Mages want to know....

Thus the end of the world began, when Nephandus figured out how to mix the devisor coffee from the workshop with alchemy to create something new.

nah I'd be scared of alchemy plus Doc's mtn dew form the White board

Cryptic wrote:

Dreamer wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: So can we get Alchemical Coffee? Enquiring Dragon-Mages want to know....

Thus the end of the world began, when Nephandus figured out how to mix the devisor coffee from the workshop with alchemy to create something new.

nah I'd be scared of alchemy plus Doc's mtn dew form the White board

Take that and shake it up it could take out several planets at once.

Astrodragon wrote: I'm not at all convinced that what Eldrich is doing is alchemy.

From the evidence, she's doing enchantment, often associated with mettalurgy. The only use she'd have for a cauldron is to brew her coffee in it...

You could give Hazmat the Diamonds, Obsidian, and other ingredients to make Adamant, and assuming he got them all to melt, he would just have some formerly expensive sludge.