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Question Lunch lines

7 years 2 weeks ago #1 by CrazyMinh
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    • So, how does the Crystal Hall feed hundreds of starving mutants without causing the pain of waiting in abnormally stupid lines??? Even in Down Under, our canteens (we don't have lunchrooms here, as there isn't a program for that (or at least there wasn't less than 5 years ago when I was in High School)) still have lines that take forever. There's pushing and shoving, and people have to hurry to vacate the queue. Now imagine that replaced with mutants, and the food replaced with huge servings for bricks. That could get messy and violent fast. So how do they feed the students so fast??? Is there a seperate window, and some kind of buffet area???
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #2 by MM2ss
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    • I do a fair bit of substitute teaching in the schools in my area. I would assume that the lunch process at Whateley works on the same basic principles as most US school cafeterias. The way it works in my area is that each class or grade has an assigned lunch period, so not every kid goes to lunch at the exact same time, instead the times are staggered. The school closest to my house has a few hundred kids, it is K-12 and feeds them all over about a 90 minute time frame. The largest school I work with has over 700 students for 9-12 alone. The lunch period there covers right at two hours total. The lines are minimal because each class goes to lunch at a slightly different time so you only end up waiting for however many people are in your class. Also, the schools in my area all have multiple lines, the smallest school in the county (right at 100 students) has two lines, the rest have more lines to speed up the process.

    I would posit that at Whateley there are multiple lines, at least four (not counting the staff line). I also seem to recall there is a "special needs" line that serves the more unusual dietary needs of students (things like plants and live critters). Combine that with staggering the lunch times and you would have little waiting overall.
    7 years 2 weeks ago #3 by Rose Bunny
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    • My interpretation is that it is somewhat akin to a buffet, you go along the line, picking up what you want, and when you reach the register, you scan your student ID card, similar to those card readers where you press a card against it.
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #4 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Rose Bunny wrote: My interpretation is that it is somewhat akin to a buffet, you go along the line, picking up what you want, and when you reach the register, you scan your student ID card, similar to those card readers where you press a card against it.


    This is essentially it. There is a concentrated U of steam tables with hot items, a custom order section that does Omelettes in the morning, sandwiches and hamburgers to order at lunch and evening does a different kind of custom hot meal on a rotation, things like Mongolian BBQ, quesadillas and fajitas, and things of that nature. There is also a salad bar a hot and cold dessert/fruit bar and things along that line. Think your local Golden Corral or Ryan's Steak House, that kind of thing. Each floor also as a drink station that includes a soda fountain sweet and unsweetened tea, coffee urns and the like.
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #5 by Anne
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    • I was thinking that it was more on the order of a buffet, that is with several steam or cold tables that could be accessed from both sides with enough room between them that if you got everything you wanted off from one 'table' you could then vacate to the checkout station. I imagine that there are several of those too to prevent queuing as well. We all know that it is hazardous to the entire student body if Sarah (currently folded flat!) or Tennyo is held up for too long in line. I do imagine that they have at least three periods of meals as well. You get assigned to one for lunch and possibly breakfast, though you may be able to go to an earlier than you are assigned breakfast..
    The cook stations where you get omelets etc would have to either have several cooks or maybe there are several stations spread out to prevent too much backup as well.
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #6 by Valentine
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    • From various descriptions, mostly of Phase, we know there are separate Salad and Dessert Bars. Sara and others with odd dietary requirements had a separate window also. There also seems to be a separate Condiment Bar with sandwich toppings, because Phase kept going to the salad bar for his burger/mushroom toppings.

    When I was in high school, we had 5 thirty minute lunch periods with each cafeteria serving around 250 students and some faculty. Now some did bring their own lunches, but most bought lunch.

    I don't ever remember reading a size for the Crystal Hall, but after the remodel the top floor had to hold at least 12 to 20 fairly big tables, with enough open space for people like Razor, Kodiak, Diamondback and other oversized students to get around.
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #7 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Valentine wrote: I don't ever remember reading a size for the Crystal Hall, but after the remodel the top floor had to hold at least 12 to 20 fairly big tables, with enough open space for people like Razor, Kodiak, Diamondback and other oversized students to get around.


    How big is it? Well, it's huge. Schuster Hall is two stories, with an attic. And the Crystal Hall is easily two stories taller. As you can see over Strong Hold's shoulder in this picture:



    The extra two floors form a ring with the waterfall which conceals the restrooms at the end nearest to, but offset to the right of Schuster Hall as seen from inside the Crystal Hall. Each ring has four circular platforms that jut out into space which is where most of the tables are, though some line the outter wall of each ring. The platform closest to the waterfall on the Kitchen (left) side on the top tier is the Faculty dais, on the right side is the Alpha Dais.

    You can see these a bit better in this pic:

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    7 years 2 weeks ago #8 by Kristin Darken
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    • One thing to note about 'lines' is that the traditional cafeteria (especially in school lunch settings) build up lines as a result of everyone being served from the same basic selections. And more practically, there is portion control handled by actual human servers, which tends to limit access points to food along one path. With buffet style restaurants, you mostly face the twin issues of keeping the products fresh (hot or cold or humid or dry, etc) and supplied. Having too much of a specific item can scare customers into not eating it thinking that there is something wrong... or ending up with it not being consumed quickly enough that it appears to not be fresh, at which point no one will select it. The cooling and heating systems tend to be designed towards long counters that can be set up in rows... which, again, tends to shape access and creates lines in which someone will wait to get one item on the entire row instead of jumping straight to that item.

    Whateley has to provide enough variety to support metahuman metabolisms that it is very rarely going to be serving a very limited range of foods. They're also serving both teens and 'massive eaters' and in most cases can support putting out large quantities without worry that anything will stay out too long for freshness to be a problem. In fact, the speed at which food is consumed is probably a big part of why people think most of the cafeteria's food is pretty good. It is simply being served as it comes out ready, instead of warming up, or cooling down, or sitting under heat lamps or steam tables.

    So, most likely, the Crystal Hall works off a sort of river delta formation of short to middle length islands through which there are a large number of potential paths, with the outer edge of this area having manned counters not unlike a food court, where you can put in personal / special orders for things not available from the general selection. And, of course, Whateley benefits from a slightly better than usual technology base. The main islands may have self reloading trays from the kitchens below especially for high turnover items - like burgers. These islands are probably also more likely to be round table style, with an opening for a student worker or staffer to be in the middle of the island, plating food from big trays for single portion pick up.

    Tracking of daily intake means these islands and counters like have most things chipped and measured either visually or scanning systems... so by the time you reach the point at which you are going to be carded for payment/checkout at a register, the total is already calculated/measured for you to wave your card at the reader / staff person. There is a potential for a line at this division point between the food service area and the tables but a good effort in creating enough 'scatter' in the selection process should keep clumping to a minimum.
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #9 by Erisian
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    • The dorm cafeteria at my college (many moons ago) had students scan their ID cards on entry to the cafeteria. No card, no access to the food nor the tables to eat at. Thus there were no lines full of people holding their trays waiting to 'check out', you just filled up what you wanted all buffet style and found a table. And if you wanted seconds or to go back for dessert, you just got up to go get it because you were still in the 'approved for this meal' area.

    Exit the cafeteria, though, and re-entry counted as another 'meal' from your meal-plan totals. Said meal plans were purchased for the semester (or quarter) in advance, allocating either 3 meals/day for Monday->Friday and 2/day for Sat/Sun, or variations that included only lunch (1 meal/day) during the week, or ones not including breakfast, etc.
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #10 by Anne
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    • I think it was when Stronghold first showed up at campus he was told that he had to weigh each plate he took and scan his ID card. They needed to track his intake, and add it to the meta-data for the entire school... The food is included in the matriculation fee, but still must be tracked!
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #11 by Kettlekorn
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    • They claim it's for the sake of monitoring nutrition and learning about mutations, but the real reason for all the tracking is so that Carson and Hartford can identify your favorite and least favorite foods and then use that information against you when sculpting punishments.
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #12 by Anne
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    • Kettlekorn wrote: They claim it's for the sake of monitoring nutrition and learning about mutations, but the real reason for all the tracking is so that Carson and Hartford can identify your favorite and least favorite foods and then use that information against you when sculpting punishments.

    Well that too of course!
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    7 years 2 weeks ago #13 by Katssun
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    • E. E. Nalley wrote: Each floor also as a drink station that includes a soda fountain sweet and unsweetened tea, coffee urns and the like.


    Kind of a weird admission...but having lived in New England my entire life...there was no sweet tea anywhere (gasp!) until Popeye's and Chik-fil-A started opening locations up here the last few years. And mind you, it isn't the "proper" sweet tea that has a short expiration date. I've only found that as north as Virginia.

    Whateley must love its Southern with a Capital S students.
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    7 years 1 week ago #14 by CrazyMinh
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    • wait, what's 'sweet tea'??? Is that just tea with sugar in it??? Couldn't you just, I dunno, put some sugar in the tea??
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    7 years 1 week ago #15 by Valentine
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    • CrazyMinh wrote: wait, what's 'sweet tea'??? Is that just tea with sugar in it??? Couldn't you just, I dunno, put some sugar in the tea??


    More like sugar with enough tea to make it liquid.

    While in Dunn hall Phase mentions a two by four foot pan of chicken pot pie. I think Phase is exaggerating a bit, since at three inches deep that would still be over one hundred pounds. Unless the servers are Bricks, or have access to antigravity equipment, food replacement would be problem.
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    7 years 1 week ago #16 by Sir Lee
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    • There are student workers in the kitchen (Mezzo is one of them). Hiring a couple bricks with low heat sensitivity to carry heavy stuff would be a reasonable approach. Or asking the gadgeteers to build a custom mini-forklift would work too.
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    7 years 1 week ago #17 by null0trooper
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    • CrazyMinh wrote: wait, what's 'sweet tea'??? Is that just tea with sugar in it??? Couldn't you just, I dunno, put some sugar in the tea??


    The solubility of sucrose in water is temperature-dependent. Just "putting some sugar in" into iced tea only leaves a small pile of sugar crystals at the bottom of a glass.
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    7 years 1 week ago #18 by E. E. Nalley
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    • null0trooper wrote:

    CrazyMinh wrote: wait, what's 'sweet tea'??? Is that just tea with sugar in it??? Couldn't you just, I dunno, put some sugar in the tea??


    The solubility of sucrose in water is temperature-dependent. Just "putting some sugar in" into iced tea only leaves a small pile of sugar crystals at the bottom of a glass.


    Exactly, sweet iced tea must be sweetened while the base is still hot, other wise you just get a gritty mess on the bottom of the glass. As to why they have sweet tea so far north of the Mason/Dixon Line? Well, the answer is the lunch ladies. The "semi-skilled" employees who are not one of the Chefs but do some food prep/'cooking' are all former civilian contractors from around the region. They were laid off during the wave of military base closures that swept the region during the 90s so Whateley was able pick the cream of the crop.

    And as any of the vets on the forum will tell you, it doesn't matter where the Amy/Navy/Marine/Air Force base is, their mess halls ALL serve Sweet Tea. So when the ladies made themselves at home in the Crystal Hall they just started making sweet tea because that's what you do. It was a hit and has stayed ever since.
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    7 years 1 week ago #19 by Rose Bunny
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    • Sweet Tea has escaped it's southern confinement. Yesterday I walked into a McDonalds in Minneapolis, they had sweet tea. I can go to the convenience store and grab a can of Arizona brand Sweet Tea.
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    7 years 1 week ago #20 by null0trooper
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    • Katssun wrote:

    E. E. Nalley wrote: Each floor also as a drink station that includes a soda fountain sweet and unsweetened tea, coffee urns and the like.


    Kind of a weird admission...but having lived in New England my entire life...there was no sweet tea anywhere (gasp!) until Popeye's and Chik-fil-A started opening locations up here the last few years.


    My first real exposure to culture shock was going to a Burger King just outside the NAVSTA in Newport, RI, and being informed I couldn't order the iced tea listed on the menu because it was "out of season". :pinch:

    Katssun wrote: And mind you, it isn't the "proper" sweet tea that has a short expiration date. I've only found that as north as Virginia.


    Same here.

    Re: lunch lines. My high school only had 3,500 students or so, and got by with an extended breakfast line for the juniors/seniors (pretty much encouraging kids to eat at home if they could) and two time slots for lunch (sophomores coming in for afternoon session, and some juniors/seniors could go through and still catch their rides) The selection may not have been the greatest (Gen-Xers would eat damn near anything that hasn't been proven to kill them), but I'm sure that someone kept track of how many portions of the various meal items got consumed.
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    7 years 1 week ago #21 by Kristin Darken
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    • It's important to note that when making (and drinking) sweet tea, you need to take into consideration where it is being served. Good sweet tea is both strong (tea) and very sweet... to levels that you only achieve by brewing the tea at boiling temperature, back off on the heat until you get a good dark brew that is just shy of boiling then sweeten with sugar. A lot of sugar. The key here though is that you finish steeping the tea first... 15 min or so while keeping it hot, so the tea is very strong. And then you put in the sugar. You can put the sugar in before you finish steeping... but this significantly reduces how much the TEA will brew. The exact amount varies a bit to taste... anywhere from 1/2 cup to 2 cups per half gallon (I like it right around 1 1/2 cups... ie 3 cups per gallon)

    Why is this important? Because sweet tea is purposely designed to be served over ice in hot weather. The ice melts, diluting the tea as you drink it, so you want both a strong brewed tea and greater sweetness. Some people will brew tea in the sunlight in a pitcher with water and ice and some sugar thrown on top. Some people will start the cool off process by adding cold water when they put the hot tea in in pitcher. Or by flash cooling it by pouring the hot tea over ice. This generates a slightly bitter colored water with grainy sugar texture. Sweet tea? If you've got a pitcher of sweet tea in your cooler, it has been mixed with nothing since you took the tea bags out of the boiling water and stirred in sugar. And you could, in theory, serve it in a glass over ice.

    But... you don't HAVE to dilute it. Instead of using regular ice? Keep a couple ice cube trays of lemonaid or fruit juice in your freezer to serve your sweet tea. Instead of diluting as you go, it blends flavors.
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    7 years 1 week ago #22 by OtherEric
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    • I remember my absolute culture shock when I was first stationed in the South and I discovered that there were places that didn't carry unsweetened tea.

    I get that other people like sweet tea, but I utterly cannot stand it; even if I like other sweet drinks.

    And to this day I have trouble getting restaurants to understand how their own products work, and you need LOTS of ice in that fresh brewed Iced Tea you're trying to serve me.
    7 years 1 week ago #23 by Anne
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    • OtherEric wrote: I remember my absolute culture shock when I was first stationed in the South and I discovered that there were places that didn't carry unsweetened tea.

    I get that other people like sweet tea, but I utterly cannot stand it; even if I like other sweet drinks.

    And to this day I have trouble getting restaurants to understand how their own products work, and you need LOTS of ice in that fresh brewed Iced Tea you're trying to serve me.

    Yup! Bring me a glass full of ice then pour tea over it. If you have crushed ice, so much the better!
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    7 years 1 week ago #24 by Valentine
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    • I live in Central Illinois, and even a few years ago I could order iced tea and get unsweetened iced tea. Now for some unknown reason iced tea is sweet tea. These are the same restaurants, in some cases with the same staff. And these aren't "Southern" restaurants, it's every restaurant, chain, local, fast food, it doesn't matter.
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    7 years 1 week ago #25 by CrazyMinh
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    • You americans are weird. I mean, who else would be crazy enough to put that much sugar into tea. Blame my British heritage, but the thought makes me shudder. NO MORE THAN three spoons of sugar at the most. Teaspoons, that is. Even then, that's pretty damm sweet. As for ice tea, Lipton does it best with Peach Ice Tea. That's the brand I go by when I want my tea sweet. SO basically, sweet tea is Ice tea- that's waht you're sayig??
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    7 years 1 week ago #26 by Anne
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    • I don't know about iced tea being 'sweet tea' but for certain sectors of the populace that is true. Now me, if I cannot find unsweetened tea I don't drink it. If I want sugar water, I prefer Mt Dew... Yes I too am a caffeine heathen. If I start putting in long days I want at least a couple of 'energy' drinks a day. Energy drinks are basically massive doses of caffeine and sugar...
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    7 years 1 week ago #27 by OtherEric
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    • Valentine wrote: I live in Central Illinois, and even a few years ago I could order iced tea and get unsweetened iced tea. Now for some unknown reason iced tea is sweet tea. These are the same restaurants, in some cases with the same staff. And these aren't "Southern" restaurants, it's every restaurant, chain, local, fast food, it doesn't matter.


    I'm in Washington state , and we had some restaurants try that a few years ago. It didn't last long, and they went back to either unsweetened tea or both.
    7 years 1 week ago #28 by Kettlekorn
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    • CrazyMinh wrote: You americans are weird. I mean, who else would be crazy enough to put that much sugar into tea.

    You tea and coffee drinkers in general are weird. Ruining perfectly good water by soaking nasty plants in it. Yuck. And don't get me started on the abominations that are pop and alcohol. If I want something more substantial than water, I get some nice refrigerated cow excretions, for those are the ordained liquids, so saith our goddess Lactatia. In the name of the Mother, the Daughter, and the Holy Udder, amen.
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    7 years 1 week ago #29 by null0trooper
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    • CrazyMinh wrote: You americans are weird. I mean, who else would be crazy enough to put that much sugar into tea. Blame my British heritage, but the thought makes me shudder. NO MORE THAN three spoons of sugar at the most.


    Properly brewed tea, when still hot and hasn't been left sitting, doesn't need milk or sugar.

    CrazyMinh wrote: Teaspoons, that is. Even then, that's pretty damm sweet.


    1 cup of sugar to a gallon of iced tea comes out to 3 teaspoons per cup. Keep in mind that iced tea is often made from "instant" tea, and as such should be darker, stronger, and more bitter than most popular coffee drinks.

    CrazyMinh wrote: As for ice tea, Lipton does it best with Peach Ice Tea. That's the brand I go by when I want my tea sweet. SO basically, sweet tea is Ice tea- that's waht you're sayig??


    I knew there had to be a market somewhere for that godsawful stuff.
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    7 years 1 week ago #30 by Katssun
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    • null0trooper wrote: Properly brewed tea, when still hot and hasn't been left sitting, doesn't need milk or sugar.

    Completely agree here. At most, some particularly strong black teas can be made into an incredibly soothing brew with a very small amount of milk.

    That said, if you're going to have tea that's been sweetened, the only proper style is Russian. With fruit jams added into the tea!

    You Southerners can keep your short shelf life sweet tea.
    7 years 1 week ago #31 by Rose Bunny
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    • Give me a big glass jar, a few assorted tea bags, and a few hours in the sun, and that's all I need. ( well... and water, of course)
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    7 years 1 week ago #32 by Valentine
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    • OtherEric wrote:

    Valentine wrote: I live in Central Illinois, and even a few years ago I could order iced tea and get unsweetened iced tea. Now for some unknown reason iced tea is sweet tea. These are the same restaurants, in some cases with the same staff. And these aren't "Southern" restaurants, it's every restaurant, chain, local, fast food, it doesn't matter.


    I'm in Washington state , and we had some restaurants try that a few years ago. It didn't last long, and they went back to either unsweetened tea or both.


    I can get unsweet tea, I just have to specifically ask for "regular" or "unsweet" tea.
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    7 years 1 week ago #33 by Sir Lee
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    • Well, if you start with generic tea bags, it just shows that you don't have a real appreciation for tea. So, drowning it in sugar is disappointing, but not really unexpected.
    Now, if you were doing that to a quality whole-leaf blend... heresy, I say. Proper punishment should start with bastinado, followed by keelhauling, and then a ten-hour session of Jade talking about Hello Kitty.

    Why, yes, I am a tea snob. Why do you ask?
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    7 years 1 week ago #34 by Kristin Darken
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    • Most people in the US have probably never had tea that wasn't either Lipton or a generic store brand of the same crap orange pekoe black tea that Lipton uses. If they're a 'post-Starbucks' tea snob, they might have tried a couple different flavors of Tazo. Many women will have a box of some generic chamomile. Other than that, it's powdered tea mixes or pre-bottled stuff: Lipton Brisk, Pure Leaf, Gold Peak, Snapple or Arizona... probably. Those are all ice teas with various flavors and degrees of sweetness. Some of them are decent, most are... *shrugs* better than cola, but not by much (and far more expensive per volume).

    You can only get loose leaf teas or even bagged options either online or if you live somewhere with a specialty shop. You certainly can't find it in the average grocery store.
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    7 years 1 week ago #35 by null0trooper
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    • Most major grocery chains around here carry Twinings and Celestial Seasonings, although both were a novelty to me when I was an undergraduate. Red Rose, Lipton, or Tetley for cup or bulk brewing.

    I do like The Republic of Tea's "Earl Greyer", though that is more of a specialty brand.

    Publix's decision to only sell "lemon-flavored" instant tea is vile. Popular perhaps, but vile.

    "Better than cola" is hard to judge. Aside from the usual Coca-Cola/Pepsi/RC Cola religious warsdifferences of opinion, some of the upscale chains carry some good stuff.
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    7 years 1 week ago #36 by MM2ss
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    • Lipton is good for sweet tea, Twinnings is good for regular tea and I keep some good stuff for my cast iron teapot (whole leaf and green teas, I have a weakness for jasmine tea as well).
    7 years 1 week ago #37 by Valentine
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: Most people in the US have probably never had tea that wasn't either Lipton or a generic store brand of the same crap orange pekoe black tea that Lipton uses. If they're a 'post-Starbucks' tea snob, they might have tried a couple different flavors of Tazo. Many women will have a box of some generic chamomile. Other than that, it's powdered tea mixes or pre-bottled stuff: Lipton Brisk, Pure Leaf, Gold Peak, Snapple or Arizona... probably. Those are all ice teas with various flavors and degrees of sweetness. Some of them are decent, most are... *shrugs* better than cola, but not by much (and far more expensive per volume).

    You can only get loose leaf teas or even bagged options either online or if you live somewhere with a specialty shop. You certainly can't find it in the average grocery store.


    I happened to go grocery shopping this morning, and checked out the tea section. There were a bunch of brand name bagged teas, mostly green or black. A dozen or so herbal, and flavored type teas, black pepper in tea??? And a couple loose leaf teas, all labeled as "black tea."
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    7 years 1 week ago #38 by Kristin Darken
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    • The Pure Leaf brand that sells pre-bottled ice tea also sells bagged tea leaf. I haven't found it in a store yet, but I can get it through Amazon Prime Now... they've got a black tea with ground vanilla bean that has been my go - to for hot tea for the past year or so.
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    7 years 1 week ago #39 by Katssun
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    • I generally stick to loose leaf in a thermos for work, but it is hard to beat bagged tea when you need an extra boost on the rough days. My particular favorite in a bag is Bigelow's Oolong. It's hard to find in grocery stores. It has a great smoky flavor somewhere between a dark oolong and a lapsang souchong.

    As for pepper, I have a few Taiwan and Chinese black teas with a "peppery finish" and you can definitely taste it. Maybe that's what they are trying to emulate?
    7 years 1 week ago #40 by Valentine
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    • Pure Leaf also has at least one loose whole leaf tea for sale. But Pure Leaf is owned by Unilever which owns Lipton.

    I did see Bigelow's Oolong at the store.
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