Question Jinn and the Sims

I don't know whether this has been covered already, but how does Jinn a) use the sims, b) stay around long enough for the match to finish and c) get charged by Jade.

If she had to keep going and getting a extended length charge applied by that cat kid in Admin like in the Tennyo's Easter story, then that would quickly get tedious on both ends. Also, how does the sim equipment deal with a non-corpeal PK entity? Also, how do two people fit into a single sim pod? They're all isolated booths, right?

All I can think is that the Jinn in the sims is a AI copy, but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

By cat kid, I mean 'kid with a cat' not 'cat kid' as in Pounce.

Iirc Jade charges Jinn into her own SIM suit as to how that works devises and magic. However all the other copies seem to be her charging herself as they are under independent control by jann or whoever however they also have a link back to Jade allowing her to see what they see.

Not sure how Jinn in the sims works but this I'm sure of: When one of Jade's instances is out, she doesn't know what happens to her or what she sees until that instance returns to Jade.

CrazyMinh wrote: I don't know whether this has been covered already, but how does Jinn a) use the sims, b) stay around long enough for the match to finish and c) get charged by Jade.

The sim runs aren't very long, maybe 20-30 minutes maximum, which is less time than a charge lasts.

It is canon that the simulated J-team in the sims are actually all controlled by Jade as a single entity. Which means that in the sims, Jade has a "cheat" (telepathic communication/group mind) that does not work in the real world -- in the RW, each J-team member is independent entity until it gets reabsorbed (well, there is also the possibility of telepathic communication by physically touching, but Jade mostly only uses it for Jann-sensei, which is Jade "possessing" her own skin, giving herself essentially the ability to multitask)
Jade has been able to handle many simultaneous objects since... I think since the thing with Hekate and Tool.

Jinn/Shroud is a different matter. She is charged separately before entering the sim. Her sim-suit is specially crafted to deal with her unusual senses (read: magic).

As for duration, as has been pointed out, most sim sessions are not that long, and Jade's charges have broken the 1 hour barrier months before the first sim class. Also, whenever a long sim session is needed, there's the trick of double-charging through the mithril ring, which makes the charge last twice as long instead of making it twice as strong as normally. Still just a couple hours, but enough for an extended sim. Timeless (the "cat boy") can boost a charge far longer than that -- in the Christmas story with Tennyo I think it lasted around 24 hours or so -- but it usually isn't necessary.

In Ayla and the Mad Scientist, TK leaves Poe around 8:30, enters the sim at 8:56, and are done before 9:30. Kayda's bison hunt sims last longer, but I can't see sims running for more than an hour.

Yay I remembered correctly. And the Christmas charge was longer than 24hrs I thought but I think that was more due to proximity to Tennyo and the demon mark thing.

Now I want more jade POV stories. ;_;

RoseBlack wrote: Yay I remembered correctly. And the Christmas charge was longer than 24hrs I thought but I think that was more due to proximity to Tennyo and the demon mark thing.

Now I want more jade POV stories. ;_;

Mithril ring and timeless iirc.

RoseBlack wrote: Yay I remembered correctly. And the Christmas charge was longer than 24hrs I thought but I think that was more due to proximity to Tennyo and the demon mark thing.

Now I want more jade POV stories. ;_;

Wow...holy shit rose black, you've been online all day. Let me guess: you life round the asia pacific time zone. Or Oz. Because the only other explanation is that you're so f**king obsessive that you haven't slept or gone to work. No offence, BTW.

Anyhoo...do you live round the stated time zones??? Or is it the latter??? Or is it just that I'm confused about when you've been making posts???

Also, unfortunately Jade's author is one of the absent, lost in the mass desertation of this website. So, until they return: no more jade.

Also, what the f**k does 'IIRC' mean??? I've been trying to figure it out, and the best thing I've come up with is 'In Internet Relay Chat', which makes absolutely no sense in context.

CrazyMinh wrote:

RoseBlack wrote: Yay I remembered correctly. And the Christmas charge was longer than 24hrs I thought but I think that was more due to proximity to Tennyo and the demon mark thing.

Now I want more jade POV stories. ;_;

Wow...holy shit rose black, you've been online all day. Let me guess: you life round the asia pacific time zone. Or Oz. Because the only other explanation is that you're so f**king obsessive that you haven't slept or gone to work. No offence, BTW.

Everyone who enjoys good writing and enjoys the opportunity to talk with the authors, does this at first with Whateley.

I binge-read and archive-trawled for 6 straight days when i first found the Whateley stories.

It was excellent fun.

If I Recall Correctly

CrazyMinh wrote:

RoseBlack wrote: Yay I remembered correctly. And the Christmas charge was longer than 24hrs I thought but I think that was more due to proximity to Tennyo and the demon mark thing.

Now I want more jade POV stories. ;_;

Wow...holy shit rose black, you've been online all day. Let me guess: you life round the asia pacific time zone. Or Oz. Because the only other explanation is that you're so f**king obsessive that you haven't slept or gone to work. No offence, BTW.

Anyhoo...do you live round the stated time zones??? Or is it the latter??? Or is it just that I'm confused about when you've been making posts???

Also, unfortunately Jade's author is one of the absent, lost in the mass desertation of this website. So, until they return: no more jade.

Astro has it right. If I recall/remember correctly Iirc

I am awareness author has been gone for quite some time. Does mean I wouldn't still like to see more. Ppppppbbbbbbtttttttt

As for time nope as stated in your recruitment for the discord con thread I'm I the Atlanta time zone.

That being said however I was in a wreck last year and my back is messed up so no I'm not allowed to work and I can't sleep even when I want too.

CrazyMinh wrote: Also, what the f**k does 'IIRC' mean??? I've been trying to figure it out, and the best thing I've come up with is 'In Internet Relay Chat', which makes absolutely no sense in context.

www.lifewire.com/most-common-acronyms-3483121

Kristin Darken wrote:

RoseBlack wrote: That being said however I was in a wreck last year and my back is messed up so no I'm not allowed to work and I can't sleep even when I want too.

Which sucks. Sleep deprivation is bad enough, but sleep dep caused by random or pervasive pain? Not cool at all. This is why dentists can charge us anything they friggen want and we pay it...

Better be using medication for that. Lack of sleep can't kill you , but it can cause problems for you in terms of concentration, memory retention (not sleeping regularly is highly suspected (but not currently proven outright) to be a cause of early onset Alzheimer's). It has also been proven to cause people to become irrational in their thinking, behave unusually, slow down your memory retrieval times (one of my friends in the School of Psychology at Uni is working on a project right now which aims to test the time taken for subjects of a simular age, ethnic and cultural background, and state of health to retrieve information given to them and memorised a day prior depending on how much sleep they've had. So far, her results show that the time it takes for memory to be retrieved increases by up to three seconds for each hour of sleep you miss. Of course, I'm a engineer, not a psych. So I don't know the full details. The best I know is what I was told during a coffee break at a nearby cafe. So, don't ask me more about it, cause I ain't that informed. But so far the results point towards conclusive proof)

But still, your doctor should have at least perscribed sleeping medication, which you should be taking if you don't want to suffer more. But still, science aside: your situation sucks dude.

Kristin Darken wrote:

RoseBlack wrote: That being said however I was in a wreck last year and my back is messed up so no I'm not allowed to work and I can't sleep even when I want too.

Which sucks. Sleep deprivation is bad enough, but sleep dep caused by random or pervasive pain? Not cool at all. This is why dentists can charge us anything they friggen want and we pay it...

Actually, dentists charge that because they do a job that is both difficult and also essential to public health and welfare. You don't want a amateur with minimal training sticking needles in your mouth, do you???

Also, they've gone through years of training to get their job, so their hard work should and will be rewarded by us mundanes. How many people here have medical degrees, just out of interest??? Does anyone here have a doctorate or at least a medical degree (which is not the same as a doctorate: a doctorate is also known as a PHD, A medical degree makes you a doctor, but not necessarily a person equipped with a PHD. Many just get a masters, but are still known as Doctors. Most just get a degree. Only a few will go for a PHD, as is the demand for trained medical professionals in the modern world).

CrazyMinh wrote:

Kristin Darken wrote:

RoseBlack wrote: That being said however I was in a wreck last year and my back is messed up so no I'm not allowed to work and I can't sleep even when I want too.

Which sucks. Sleep deprivation is bad enough, but sleep dep caused by random or pervasive pain? Not cool at all. This is why dentists can charge us anything they friggen want and we pay it...

Actually, dentists charge that because they do a job that is both difficult and also essential to public health and welfare. You don't want a amateur with minimal training sticking needles in your mouth, do you???

Also, they've gone through years of training to get their job, so their hard work should and will be rewarded by us mundanes. How many people here have medical degrees, just out of interest??? Does anyone here have a doctorate or at least a medical degree (which is not the same as a doctorate: a doctorate is also known as a PHD, A medical degree makes you a doctor, but not necessarily a person equipped with a PHD. Many just get a masters, but are still known as Doctors. Most just get a degree. Only a few will go for a PHD, as is the demand for trained medical professionals in the modern world).

I'm pretty sure that Elrod said he has a doctorate, his is in electronic or electrical engineering iirc.

Eh most sleep aids don't work on me due to off balance brain chemistry. Also at this point we are running out of non narcotic pain killers and have been through those. It takes me around 3 weeks to build from high tolerance to immunity to every pain killer we have tried >.< it is very not fair or cool.

RoseBlack wrote: Eh most sleep aids don't work on me due to off balance brain chemistry. Also at this point we are running out of non narcotic pain killers and have been through those. It takes me around 3 weeks to build from high tolerance to immunity to every pain killer we have tried >.< it is very not fair or cool.

You get to the point where you say screw the pain meds and save the good opiods for when you absolutely have to be up to do something, like seeing the grandchild that lives 1000+ miles away.

Pretty much. Have been there since they removed my tonsils and reshaped my sinal cavities when I was 13. That was a miserable five weeks healing. Sad thing I need to have it done again the bone they dremeled out has regrown in the intervening time. ; _ ; and my tonsils have regrown twice. So pretty much I heal super well but nothing helps me mitigate pain for very long or can help me rest. I am not sure this is a fair trade. But yeah after that it took 5 years before codine would work again at all. So now most of the time if the pain is in the realm where I can force myself to function I just tolerate it. Cause I might need that stuff for something really bad.

No it has to do with them being require to have malpractice insurance. And since it is mandated that they have to have it instead of being optional but a really fragging good idea the insurance companies can charge them out the whazoo for it. Plus some insurance mainly anything Obama care will never actually pay them but the government says they have to accept it or lose their licence. So they end having to pass the cost of all that on to you and your insurance company that will pay.

Which in turn makes your insurance company charge you more..... And they charge the doctors more for their malpractice insurance which makes the doctors have to charge more. It's a terrible evil cycle and more proof that anything being a mandatory purchase is a bad idea.

I mean really what doctor would have malpractice insurance? They know they are human and make mistakes none of them want to lose their homes or practices in a law suit. But if it wasn't mandatory companies would have to charge less than what the potential cost of a suit is per year. Or they would get dropped because the doctor would say okay I put x million in the bank I'm square I don't need the insurance cause I set aside enough to pay for my own fuck up.

It's same with car insurance those companies make so much money and screw everyone on both ends. I can't even get the phiscal therapy I need because this put me out of work so I have no money and they other guys company don't pay for a dam thing until I go to court cause they are hoping I will give up say pay for this and I will go away. In the mean time if I try to work or anything they can say I want really hurt and give me nothing


Yes I am really fucking bitter about this

Yeah, you just know that insurance must have been thought up by lawyers, and as my dad says the proper way to pronounce that profession is liar... Not saying they're all bad, but: What do you call a cruise ship full of lawyers sinking? A good start, if there aren't enough life boats and most of them drown. The sharks won't eat them due to professional courtesy...

Actually it wasn't. And before it was mandatory while they did make a effort to make sure they weren't getting defrauded they did pay out easier and cared more about their victims.

It was be coming mandatory that changed the business model. It became charge as much as we can get away with instead of having to compete with the person setting aside enough money for themselves. I mean like someone like bill gates or anyone worth over a few million dollars wouldnt typically have health insurance due to the fact that they can pay no problem. Also companies weren't forced to take clients that are bad investments. This is gonna sound callous but it's a business you don't insure a stage three cancer patient cause you know you won't make you money back in the long term. You insure people who are healthy. And try to take care of themselves so you can make a profit after you cover any thing that needs to be covered. Instead the government makes them take on people that the company knows is gonna cost them hundreds or thousands of healthy clients money per month. So how can it make a profit? Then the government has to tell doctors sorry you have to take that insurance or we will arrest you cause we made them take all these people and it putting then out of business. We don't care if it puts your private practice out of business


That's why in America and Canada their are less people entering med school each year.

RoseBlack wrote: This is gonna sound callous but it's a business you don't insure a stage three cancer patient cause you know you won't make you money back in the long term. You insure people who are healthy. And try to take care of themselves so you can make a profit after you cover any thing that needs to be covered.

That is the fundamental problem with relying on the insurance model as a general-purpose health-care solution. In a non-mandatory system, the people who can get affordable rates don't need it in the first place, and the people who do need it can't get affordable rates; but in a mandatory system, it just becomes a cash grab unless you heavily regulate it and subsidize it for the poor. And if you're going to devote the personnel and legislation to do all that, you might as well cut out the middle-men and use taxes to pay for healthcare directly.

My inner Libertarian doesn't like it, but as far as I can see, some sort of public healthcare does seem to be the best solution.

The NHS in the UK is one of the main reasons i am still alive.

Yep and more doctor quit every year and less enter the field there. I saw a analysis that said in about 5 or 6 year the UK wouldn't have enough doctors to even think abbout treating everyone. And parliament is already thinking about how to restrict "net drains" from care. Which is the same thing Obama care set up here in the US. Oh you have a honourable condition or are retired sorry we can't seem to make appointments for you....

This has gotten so derailed. We don't even know where the tracks are anymore.

RoseBlack wrote: Yep and more doctor quit every year and less enter the field there. I saw a analysis that said in about 5 or 6 year the UK wouldn't have enough doctors to even think about treating everyone. And parliament is already thinking about how to restrict "net drains" from care. Which is the same thing Obama care set up here in the US. Oh you have a honourable condition or are retired sorry we can't seem to make appointments for you....

And that's because it has been consistently under-funded by the current government, who hated the idea of the NHS when it was first brought in in 1948.

The current bunch who are trying to de-fund it, against the wishes of their constituents, are all linked by directorships, or, by direct funding, to companies that will make an extortionate profit from dismantling the NHS.

It's disaster capitalism at it's most usual. Dismantling public infrastructure for private profit.

That said, this is veering into politics, and we should maybe stop, though if you would like to continue this conversation, please DM me.

No actually all the doctors hate it. Because it makes demands of them and offers them no support. It's the same way in every single country with centralized healthcare. It has everything to do with the way governments work. They don't have to be accountable not the way a private organization does.


Just like Obama care here in the US the democrats got everything they wanted on it but it just doesn't work. Socalism as a form of government doesn't work it always falls apart and each "party" blames the other while both sides stuff their pockets. And that's all that is socialized healthcare. The governments in charge so the ones at the top pocket what they want and leave crumbs for the rest of you. If the government wasn't in charge of it and it had to run a profit it would cost a tenth of what your government pays....

Um, from what understood the Democrats actually compromised a lot to get Obamacare passed and very much did not get all the things they wanted. Maybe I'm mistaken, because I was busy with college at the time and not paying much attention to the wankers in DC, but that was the impression I got.

Anyway, the core issue here isn't that one side is right and the other is wrong. It's that they have different values and priorities. If your objective is to minimize the cost for healthy, competent folks? Then sure, the capitalist approach is the clear winner. Set up a health savings account, maybe grab a cheap catastrophic insurance plan to cover nightmare scenarios, and just don't worry about anybody who was unlucky in the genetic lotto. Conversely, if your goal is to insure that everybody has access to healthcare regardless of luck, then socialized healthcare is the best solution, as long as you don't mind the increased tax burden on the middle and upper classes.

And that's really all there is too it. Both systems do actually work, never mind what the various politicians and armchair idiots will tell you. Neither is the end of the world, and most people will get by just fine with either one. It's just a matter of which value systems it's optimized for -- individual responsibility vs. societal responsibility.

I lean toward the latter when it comes to health since a person isn't responsible for their genetic code. It's not their fault if they're unintelligent, sickly, mentally ill, or what have you.

Not really. The things they "caved on" we're other areas of the budget important to republicans. The whole problem with Obama care is it's mandatory purchase of insurance which the government is specifically not allowed to do by the constitution. Because a government office well always spend all of its budget and ask for more every year because again they are accountable like a private entity. And note this is stuff I have researched myself.

And if you want to talk personal responsibility vs societal. Well then it was the parents personal responsibility to society to not have that child. I'm not for purging the gene pool by government hands but the only way something will be cured is if the people who have the take responsibility and say no I will adopt and not let this pass on to another generation.

And another thing why should the government force me to pay for someone else to live at gun point and make no mistake taxes are taken at gun point. When they take so much cause they are doing stuff they were never intended to it impacts my ability to provide for myself and I need help then? Why can't I just keep all my money and not need help? Hmmmm? Because the government Republican or Democrat want you dependant on them. This is esp true of the Democrat side cause then they can say the Republicans or the libertarians are gonna take away your ability to live by cutting these programs we had you to death to make you need.

And let's not get started on all the illegals that sneak in for welfare food stamps and Obama care. Cause they don't have taxable income they don't pay for anything you and I have to and they aren't citizens they are thieves and invaders.

And as for my comment about taxes at gun point what happens if you dont pay? Despite the fact that the fed isnt allowed to do anything more than import and export taxes? Theycome take everything you own.

How does any of this have a bearing on Generator, Jinn, or the Sims?

Do I need to break out the story of how I found out that bone files are a thing? It doesn't have much to do with the WU either (unless Rose Bunny needs more inspiration to torture her characters.)

I made a comment that we couldn't see the rails anymore earlier and got ingored. Ugh bone files. Those and bonesaws ugh. Shudder

RoseBlack wrote: No actually all the doctors hate it. Because it makes demands of them and offers them no support. It's the same way in every single country with centralized healthcare. It has everything to do with the way governments work. They don't have to be accountable not the way a private organization does.


Just like Obama care here in the US the democrats got everything they wanted on it but it just doesn't work. Socalism as a form of government doesn't work it always falls apart and each "party" blames the other while both sides stuff their pockets. And that's all that is socialized healthcare. The governments in charge so the ones at the top pocket what they want and leave crumbs for the rest of you. If the government wasn't in charge of it and it had to run a profit it would cost a tenth of what your government pays....

There's a reason that everything that the govt gets involved in goes tits up. The fact is that all govt services are third party purchases. To understand a third party purchase imagine that you are using your money to buy something special for someone you care about.
Since it is your money you are careful about both the cost and quality of the item you purchase (you care about the person receiving it and you're using your money!) This is actually a second party purchase... IE the item is not for yourself where you might purchase something more expensive or higher quality.... A purchase for yourself using your own money is a first party purchase...
A third party purchase can be thought of this way: Suppose you are in charge of purchasing a gift for a person whom you don't know at your workplace with money collected from other employees. At this point you really don't care about either the quality or the cost of the item Or whether the item is appropriate for the person it is being purchased for. So the money may be spent on something utterly inappropriate like a butt plug set for the uptight PA to the company president... But you didn't know the person and frankly don't care enough to even consider their wants, needs or desires.

Now with an area like health care what Ocare tried to promise was that more people would purchase the product, thus widening the 'market pool', But a lot (not all by any means) of the people who the govt proposed to add to the 'market pool', were people who had previously made the choice not to enter that pool, gambling that their health would remain good for longer than the time it would take to spend more money on insurance than they would have to pay the doctor for routine service.

But there is definitely another sector of the populace that the bill was supposed to address. Those were the indigent uninsured. Now some (I have no clue which of the people here that may be) of us are indigent and have experienced the VA medical system and had no belief that the govt could do an even larger system right....
So though I still have to get my routine care through the VA I do worry about what might happen if I should experience a medical emergency... I'd have to start a gofundme page with no friends to give!

And now that I have driven us yet further off the rails... Can we please stop discussing what govts should and should not do, and get back to discussing Jade, Jinn and the sims.
Just exactly how do they account for what Jinn can do in the sims?

It's one part "cast Jinn into a Sim Suit" and two or three parts other mechanics that I cannot divulge...

I WOULD have interposed myself earlier, but I was traveling to visit family (and EE) in Atlanta, and my time was limited (partially by sampling products at a certain beverage manufacturer in Lynchburg TN). So I missed this.

If there are ANY MORE posts which get into the politics of health care - or anything else - I will lock the thread. When I've posted comments that might seem political, I try very, very hard to make it general and apply to both sides and not dealing with current issues. We should all do the same. The politics behind universal or public health care are OFF LIMITS from this point forward. Period and Stop.

DanZilla wrote: It's one part "cast Jinn into a Sim Suit" and two or three parts other mechanics that I cannot divulge...

Is that what is called handwavium tech? In other words do we say it exists in the WA Universe, but we don't explain how it can possibly really work if we tried to translate it to RL today?

Anne wrote:

DanZilla wrote: It's one part "cast Jinn into a Sim Suit" and two or three parts other mechanics that I cannot divulge...

Is that what is called handwavium tech? In other words do we say it exists in the WA Universe, but we don't explain how it can possibly really work if we tried to translate it to RL today?

Or possibly it's going to be part of a plot device that is going to be used in a story that hasn't been published yet...

Remember that one of the underlying story arcs is about the "Avatar Theft" conspiracy that is aimed at Champion.

Add in the plot thread about Tansy hijacking one of the J-Team by accident, as she was an avatar without a spirit.

As the J-Team are Psi-based, this would mean that a variant of the Sim-Suit Tech could be used as a spirit-capture device. Possibly. Add in lots of hand-wavium, as i'm speculating here.

As Hekate's Master is known to use Magic, Technology, and, Devises, might they be one of the Tech-Track students that is also a Sim maintainer?

There's still something missing that hasn't been covered in any of the stories yet that would make this all hang together coherently...

---

Also, Elerod: My apologies for the un-necessary tangents into politics.

I personally don't think she is actually creating them in the Sims. Because remember the suit cuts off powers with the little thing that rests at the back of the neck. Plus if she did actually cast jann 2ould just be in the SIM suit. (For that matter I wanna a look at Jinns suit it has to be way different than the normal ones) I think that's the reason she also "maintains contact" is that she isn't really spawning new instances of herself.

Mister D wrote: Remember that one of the underlying story arcs is about the "Avatar Theft" conspiracy that is aimed at Champion.

I'd thought it was aimed at the sweet, sweet money well-off avatars will pay for a "good" spirit. That Tansy was able to "catch and release" one meant that a spirit could be held for auction and then transported to the customer with reusable shipping containers.

Presuming the spirit survives the ordeal of being released.

Kettlekorn wrote: Presuming the spirit survives the ordeal of being released.

So, you make sure you get paid half up-front/half on completion, and you don't shove a stake through the courier's hand. (I don't see Donnie caring that much about the courier or the spirit, but anything to reduce inventory costs might be important.)

This is where we as readers that are talking with the authors know more than the characters in the stories we are discussing.

It's Canon ( i think...) that the Champion Force is made from lots of weaker spirits that became subsumed by Champion, as the original Champion was an Avatar, though this is not widely known in the WU.

To most people in the WU, it's just the mysterious Champion Force.

As the Anti-Champion managed to capture the Dynamo Force in "Saks & Violence", the technology in his suit will make him a nice fat target for the people organising the Avatar Theft plot.

True. And I think the plan is just aimed at avatars in general weaken strong heroes with a force or spirit sell to everyone else with the understanding that if you mess with us we will take it back.