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Question BMA/Survival alternatives?

6 years 6 days ago #1 by Efindumb
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  • This has been bouncing around my head for a bit but I am not sure if it has come up yet or has ever factored into a story: we see students taking either BMA or Survival I as freshmen. Almost all characters take BMA as it has two interesting, albeit cantankerous instructors. We have seen bits and pieces of Mr. Anderson's actions in Survival I, but not really explored it all that much.

    But for all of the students taking those classes, surely there must be other alternatives. Does the school have a designated Phys Ed class that students take if they don't want or get kicked out of BMA or Survival i? Would something like Flight 1 or Flying 1 as the alternative or do students get forced to only take those two classes in their four years at the school no matter what?
    6 years 6 days ago #2 by Sir Lee
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  • There is a regular Physical Education class. It's not very popular, because even the people who are not interested in Martial Arts tend to find Survival more interesting than running laps and playing dodgeball. But some go that route. Charge, for instance, did Swimming (I think) in her freshman year for her P.E. credit, over the objections of... well, pretty much everybody. We do know that basic swimming proficiency is a requirement, unless there are special circumstances. And there are other sports available, either as P.E. classes or just for fun. We do know that Chaka and Silver played tennis.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 6 days ago #3 by Hebblejebble
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  • I can't figure out how to quote from a story but in "Straight from the Squirrel’s Mouth (Chapter 10)" we have:
    """
    “What kind of P.E. is it?” Anna just had to know, because she didn’t think sensei Tolman would want to teach a P.E. class that was making a bunch of out of shape kids run laps for an hour.

    Ergonomic said, “Self-defense for non-martial arts kids. Lots of defense, lots of how to run away when someone’s chasing you or blasting energy bolts at you, and even some really nasty offensive moves. I don’t think I could do most of them.”
    """

    and in in "Charge: le Snob Francais":
    """
    A voice came over her shoulder, a booming, commanding voice. "Then you fail the test, and you will fail your fall term PE course," Sergeant Wilson snapped at her, his voice ringing with the firmness of steel.

    "This is stupid! I took a course in swimming!"
    """
    6 years 6 days ago #4 by null0trooper
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  • There's at least one:

    Straight From The Squirrel's Mouth wrote: “What kind of P.E. is it?”  Anna just had to know, because she didn’t think sensei Tolman would want to teach a P.E. class that was making a bunch of out of shape kids run laps for an hour.
    Ergonomic said, “Self-defense for non-martial arts kids.  Lots of defense, lots of how to run away when someone’s chasing you or blasting energy bolts at you, and even some really nasty offensive moves.  I don’t think I could do most of them.


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    6 years 5 days ago - 6 years 5 days ago #5 by Katssun
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  • What about for juniors and seniors?

    We know about things like Exemplar Grace, but that's about it.
    Last Edit: 6 years 5 days ago by Katssun.
    6 years 5 days ago #6 by Astrodragon
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  • Katssun wrote: What about for juniors and seniors?

    We know about things like Exemplar Grace, but that's about it.


    Exemplar Grace is an advanced combat class for high end exemplars and bricks, from what has been shown.
    There are others.
    Such as a combat magic class, for example. But likely limited to Juniors, for the same reason the advanced combat classes are, you need to know the basics first.
    There is also Ms Dennons class for teaching bricks how to fight and how to fight bricks (shown in Dragonsfyre's G2 story

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 5 days ago #7 by Efindumb
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  • Astrodragon wrote:

    Katssun wrote: What about for juniors and seniors?

    We know about things like Exemplar Grace, but that's about it.


    Exemplar Grace is an advanced combat class for high end exemplars and bricks, from what has been shown.
    There are others.
    Such as a combat magic class, for example. But likely limited to Juniors, for the same reason the advanced combat classes are, you need to know the basics first.
    There is also Ms Dennons class for teaching bricks how to fight and how to fight bricks (shown in Dragonsfyre's G2 story


    That may be the same exact class, it is never actually said who was being fought in her Exemplar class(es)- only that they'd learn how to handle their Exemplar powers a certain way...
    6 years 5 days ago #8 by Astrodragon
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  • Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Katssun wrote: What about for juniors and seniors?

    We know about things like Exemplar Grace, but that's about it.


    Exemplar Grace is an advanced combat class for high end exemplars and bricks, from what has been shown.
    There are others.
    Such as a combat magic class, for example. But likely limited to Juniors, for the same reason the advanced combat classes are, you need to know the basics first.
    There is also Ms Dennons class for teaching bricks how to fight and how to fight bricks (shown in Dragonsfyre's G2 story


    That may be the same exact class, it is never actually said who was being fought in her Exemplar class(es)- only that they'd learn how to handle their Exemplar powers a certain way...


    They are not the same class, at least not in Gen2.

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 4 days ago #9 by Katssun
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  • What does the cabal have in mind for the less physically adept students? Tech track, espers, etc.? I imagine the administration would absolutely prefer these students in Survival and BMA, but just wondering what other interesting alternatives you might have brainstormed.

    If you're willing to tell us.
    6 years 4 days ago #10 by Malady
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  • Well, Class of 1966, had Boxing, but that seems to have been depreciated?
    6 years 4 days ago #11 by Wasamon
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  • Of the top of my head, hot take?

    "Combat Readiness Devise Practical Lab"

    "Non-Mental Exercise Elective"

    "Stretch, Stretch, Keep on Stretching, STOP! ... for elastic shifters"

    "Anger Management Class"

    (And no, none of these are serious unless I somehow change my mind in the future)
    6 years 4 days ago #12 by Sir Lee
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  • My general take on the Whateley PE thing:
    - There are several classes available, from the more conventional high school calisthenics, a number of individual sports (no team sports apparently) such as tennis and swimming, and various Martial Arts classes, and that weirdly-named "PE for non-combat types."
    - "Survival" is possibly the least conventional PE class from an outsider's POV. It is still eligible for PE credits.
    - The school strongly suggests, although not really demands, that freshmen take either Survival or BMA so they have minimal survival skills. Once that is out of the way, pressure lessens, but a large part of the students will go on to more advanced classes after being shown their value.
    - The non-combat sports may not be highly popular, but they still have enough of a following to not be cancelled. It's quite possible that some students take those classes for leisure and not for the PE credits.
    - There's a swimming proficiency requirement, but it's rather basic and students can test out of it (and most do) or can be excused for medical reasons. Generally speaking, if you can fall into a swimming pool, not drown and get out under your own power, the school is satisfied.
    - There are no official Parkour classes, just a club, at least in Gen1. This might have been changed by Gen2. Or maybe one of the combat classes, such as "Combat Movement", incorporated Parkour into its curriculum.
    - Do pure combat classes count as PE? I'm not sure.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    6 years 4 days ago #13 by null0trooper
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  • Malady wrote: Well, Class of 1966, had Boxing, but that seems to have been depreciated?


    It might have been KO'd by the martial arts fad of the 1970s.


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    6 years 4 days ago #14 by Efindumb
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  • Astrodragon wrote:

    Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Katssun wrote: What about for juniors and seniors?

    We know about things like Exemplar Grace, but that's about it.


    Exemplar Grace is an advanced combat class for high end exemplars and bricks, from what has been shown.
    There are others.
    Such as a combat magic class, for example. But likely limited to Juniors, for the same reason the advanced combat classes are, you need to know the basics first.
    There is also Ms Dennons class for teaching bricks how to fight and how to fight bricks (shown in Dragonsfyre's G2 story


    That may be the same exact class, it is never actually said who was being fought in her Exemplar class(es)- only that they'd learn how to handle their Exemplar powers a certain way...


    They are not the same class, at least not in Gen2.


    Can you quote that? Because Iv;e gotten it shoved down my throat that things are a certain way but it never appears in any story and only in certain authors minds so how the hell is anyone supposed to know with the evidence that they have on hand pointing it one direction and all we have is the word that it's another?
    6 years 4 days ago #15 by Efindumb
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  • Wasamon wrote: Of the top of my head, hot take?

    "Combat Readiness Devise Practical Lab"

    "Non-Mental Exercise Elective"

    "Stretch, Stretch, Keep on Stretching, STOP! ... for elastic shifters"

    "Anger Management Class"

    (And no, none of these are serious unless I somehow change my mind in the future)


    Given some of the class names, they aren't too far off...especially the shifter joke. I'd be shocked if there wasn't already a "Combat Ready Deviser Lab" for those who create weapons particularly juniors and seniors who aren't directly involved in the Legacy Project that year.

    Anger management might be a class they already hold but hasn't been mentioned...it seems like a punitive class instead of a normal class and likely one assigned at the request of Dr. Bellows et al in the counseling offices
    6 years 4 days ago #16 by null0trooper
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  • Efindumb wrote: Anger management might be a class they already hold but hasn't been mentioned...it seems like a punitive class instead of a normal class and likely one assigned at the request of Dr. Bellows et al in the counseling offices


    Anger Management does sound reasonable as a class. WoG has it that the staff do try to rehabilitate/help the UV students, even if most of that help isn't shown in stories.

    Folks like Bloodwolf and Killstench just don't get much in the way of PoV stories.

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    6 years 3 days ago #17 by Astrodragon
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  • Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Katssun wrote: What about for juniors and seniors?

    We know about things like Exemplar Grace, but that's about it.


    Exemplar Grace is an advanced combat class for high end exemplars and bricks, from what has been shown.
    There are others.
    Such as a combat magic class, for example. But likely limited to Juniors, for the same reason the advanced combat classes are, you need to know the basics first.
    There is also Ms Dennons class for teaching bricks how to fight and how to fight bricks (shown in Dragonsfyre's G2 story


    That may be the same exact class, it is never actually said who was being fought in her Exemplar class(es)- only that they'd learn how to handle their Exemplar powers a certain way...


    They are not the same class, at least not in Gen2.


    Can you quote that? Because Iv;e gotten it shoved down my throat that things are a certain way but it never appears in any story and only in certain authors minds so how the hell is anyone supposed to know with the evidence that they have on hand pointing it one direction and all we have is the word that it's another?


    I can most certainly quote that because I wrote the story including the class in Gen2. Perhaps if you read it you would see.

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 3 days ago #18 by Efindumb
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  • Astrodragon wrote:

    Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Katssun wrote: What about for juniors and seniors?

    We know about things like Exemplar Grace, but that's about it.


    Exemplar Grace is an advanced combat class for high end exemplars and bricks, from what has been shown.
    There are others.
    Such as a combat magic class, for example. But likely limited to Juniors, for the same reason the advanced combat classes are, you need to know the basics first.
    There is also Ms Dennons class for teaching bricks how to fight and how to fight bricks (shown in Dragonsfyre's G2 story


    That may be the same exact class, it is never actually said who was being fought in her Exemplar class(es)- only that they'd learn how to handle their Exemplar powers a certain way...


    They are not the same class, at least not in Gen2.


    Can you quote that? Because Iv;e gotten it shoved down my throat that things are a certain way but it never appears in any story and only in certain authors minds so how the hell is anyone supposed to know with the evidence that they have on hand pointing it one direction and all we have is the word that it's another?


    I can most certainly quote that because I wrote the story including the class in Gen2. Perhaps if you read it you would see.


    Fuck it. You guys just lost me. I expected this from Kristin but not others. I had heard horror stories about all of you, but to actually be told "because I said so" is hard to believe.

    I won't read your story, not after your arrogance here. I refuse to read Kristin's stories, but you lost a potential reader.
    6 years 3 days ago #19 by Hebblejebble
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  • Dropbear describes Ms Dennon's brick class as a chance for those with lethal strength to go all out, to test the limits of their powers against opponents who can take it.

    Exemplar Grace is about the controlled and restrained application of force, to apply superhuman strength without damaging your surroundings.

    I doubt I could find a quote that proves that these are two different classes, stories can't support that level of detail and maintain an engaging tempo.

    If you choose to only read stories where authors define every assumption they make, or refuse to engage with readers at all, then I wish you the best of luck in your future reading. I, however, eagerly await the next WU release, and the one after that, and the one after that...
    6 years 3 days ago #20 by Mister D
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  • Efindumb wrote:

    Wasamon wrote: Of the top of my head, hot take?

    "Combat Readiness Devise Practical Lab"

    "Non-Mental Exercise Elective"

    "Stretch, Stretch, Keep on Stretching, STOP! ... for elastic shifters"

    "Anger Management Class"

    (And no, none of these are serious unless I somehow change my mind in the future)


    Given some of the class names, they aren't too far off...especially the shifter joke. I'd be shocked if there wasn't already a "Combat Ready Deviser Lab" for those who create weapons particularly juniors and seniors who aren't directly involved in the Legacy Project that year.

    Anger management might be a class they already hold but hasn't been mentioned...it seems like a punitive class instead of a normal class and likely one assigned at the request of Dr. Bellows et al in the counseling offices


    There's a Gen1 background UV character, Gore, i think, who is required to take anger management classes, but instead learns how to fake normality while still being a sociopath.


    Measure Twice
    6 years 3 days ago #21 by Kristin Darken
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  • Ok.. first of all... let's back down on the personal challenges. That is neither necessary or wanted. Not by individuals nor by site policy ... as you are familiar with BCTS's policies Efin, that shouldn't be new to you. We are open to a greater level of feedback critically on the stories/content... but we are no more willing to put up with personal attacks than any other community. If you can continue the discussion without more personal attacks, I'll leave the thread open. Otherwise, we'll lock it.

    As to the question(s) at hand:

    1. At no point do the canon authors promise you a source book. There are plans and details involved in keeping everyone in continuity in a shared universe over fifteen years and twenty to thirty authors... but that doesn't mean it is in the condition or state of completion that would make it content to release to the public. Do the Gen 2 authors have a 'master' class schedule... no. They DO have a class schedule that includes enough teaching staff, classes, and a breakdown of the 'times of day' in which each of the class periods happen and which covers the classes that the Gen 2 protagonists are taking. It's a 'framework' from which anything else that we need (what class a supporting character goes to after jumping one of the protagonists at the pool) can be extrapolated... and then we've got published detail for future continuity comparisons. What we cannot do is release a class list that includes when the various math classes are. Or history, etc...

    2. Canon authors are not required to read these threads, especially given that many of them are speculative in nature and can lead to various hypothetical plot lines and story bits... that we don't want you to claim we've stolen from you. If we DO happen to glance through a thread and see someone is looking for confirmation on something, we first have to decide whether answering that question is going to provide a spoiler in some way. We DO have places on the forums that WhatIF authors can ask questions that might spoiler... and we might still give them answers... but that place is NOT in the public threads. So mostly, any answer that we give in these threads is something that has been publicly released already... so we know you either read it and didn't retain it OR you didn't read that story. In that case... we're probably going to give you a short answer.

    3. Astrodragon probably shouldn't have gotten snarky with you about it... but he IS a canon author. He gave you your answer and you argued with him about it. By default, that's a poor choice to use in getting answers. As one of four... maybe six... authors involved in creating those details for Gen 2, you couldn't have asked for someone better to stop by your thread and provide details. Why in any world would you then argue with him and insist on quotes?

    4. NO ONE cares if your non-canon story has Mrs Whitfield teach Computer Science 104 third period in the lab at Schuster, room 202. ... or if instead its Mr Martin in the study with the candlesticks. You're writing non-canon stories, make some shit up. It's what WE do.


    Finally, let me address this "I won't read your story, not after your arrogance here. I refuse to read Kristin's stories, but you lost a potential reader."

    Arrogance.

    Look, I get it. A group of writers sets up as a closed team in the midst of a bunch of other writers and says "not everyone gets to play in this sandbox"... that's going to ruffle some people's feathers. I even get how *I* became the target of that... despite the fact that I'm far from the founder or 'leader' of said group and am actually only the fourth person to act in the role of web admin. Am I proud of us? Yes. Am I vocal in my efforts to bring people into the community as both writers and readers? Yes. But arrogance? Ha... No.

    Arrogance, for example, is what it takes to go to someone else's site... demand details from one of their staff... argue with them while they try to answer you... doubt their veracity when they've taken the effort to help you... and then consider your value as a reader of their content high enough that declaring that you won't read their material is actually supposed to have an impact.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    6 years 3 days ago #22 by Mister D
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  • Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Efindumb wrote:

    Astrodragon wrote:

    Katssun wrote: What about for juniors and seniors?

    We know about things like Exemplar Grace, but that's about it.


    Exemplar Grace is an advanced combat class for high end exemplars and bricks, from what has been shown.
    There are others.
    Such as a combat magic class, for example. But likely limited to Juniors, for the same reason the advanced combat classes are, you need to know the basics first.
    There is also Ms Dennons class for teaching bricks how to fight and how to fight bricks (shown in Dragonsfyre's G2 story


    That may be the same exact class, it is never actually said who was being fought in her Exemplar class(es)- only that they'd learn how to handle their Exemplar powers a certain way...


    They are not the same class, at least not in Gen2.


    Can you quote that? Because Iv;e gotten it shoved down my throat that things are a certain way but it never appears in any story and only in certain authors minds so how the hell is anyone supposed to know with the evidence that they have on hand pointing it one direction and all we have is the word that it's another?


    I can most certainly quote that because I wrote the story including the class in Gen2. Perhaps if you read it you would see.


    Fuck it. You guys just lost me. I expected this from Kristin but not others. I had heard horror stories about all of you, but to actually be told "because I said so" is hard to believe.

    I won't read your story, not after your arrogance here. I refuse to read Kristin's stories, but you lost a potential reader.


    They're not being arrogant.

    They're just working together successfully within their narrative environment.

    The authors are very supportive towards other people who are working on their writing skills.

    If you prefer a different narrative universe, then there are lots of other places to practise your craft.

    Some of the Canon Authors write in different places, and adapt their writing towards the different narrative universes found there.

    Speaking as a musician, playing Heavy Metal in a Jazz venue doesn't always go down well... :D


    Measure Twice
    6 years 2 days ago #23 by Kettlekorn
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  • Mister D wrote: There's a Gen1 background UV character, Gore, i think, who is required to take anger management classes, but instead learns how to fake normality while still being a sociopath.

    That statement doesn't make sense. Sociopathy isn't an anger management issue, so of course anger management classes wouldn't cure it. But just as with normies, it's better to have a sociopath who can manage his anger than one who cannot.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    6 years 2 days ago #24 by Mister D
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  • Kettlekorn wrote:

    Mister D wrote: There's a Gen1 background UV character, Gore, i think, who is required to take anger management classes, but instead learns how to fake normality while still being a sociopath.

    That statement doesn't make sense. Sociopathy isn't an anger management issue, so of course anger management classes wouldn't cure it. But just as with normies, it's better to have a sociopath who can manage his anger than one who cannot.


    Sorry if i was unclear in what i said. i haven't read that story in a while.

    i maybe should have used the word "psychopath", and not "sociopath".

    It's explicitly said in the story in Gore's internal monologue, that he's just faking it to keep Dr. Bellow's happy, and that he still just wants to slaughter the world one person at a time.

    Whatever word is used to describe him, he's a dangerous nutter.


    Measure Twice
    6 years 2 days ago #25 by Malady
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  • Mister D wrote:

    Kettlekorn wrote:

    Mister D wrote: There's a Gen1 background UV character, Gore, i think, who is required to take anger management classes, but instead learns how to fake normality while still being a sociopath.

    That statement doesn't make sense. Sociopathy isn't an anger management issue, so of course anger management classes wouldn't cure it. But just as with normies, it's better to have a sociopath who can manage his anger than one who cannot.


    Sorry if i was unclear in what i said. i haven't read that story in a while.

    i maybe should have used the word "psychopath", and not "sociopath".

    It's explicitly said in the story in Gore's internal monologue, that he's just faking it to keep Dr. Bellow's happy, and that he still just wants to slaughter the world one person at a time.

    Whatever word is used to describe him, he's a dangerous nutter.


    And apparently he's studying to become a doctor, if the Wiki's right.

    Ew?

    Don't feel like digging through stories to source his psychopathy atm, for the wiki.

    And the topic of this thread seems to be BMA / Survival alternatives...

    I wonder who teaches the Swimming course?
    6 years 1 day ago - 6 years 1 day ago #26 by Kettlekorn
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  • Okay, I've just refreshed myself on who Gore is ( Anecdotal Antidote Apocalypse ). Rageaholic would be a better word for what you're trying to say. He does appear to also be a psychopath, but that's an entirely separate thing. (Pychopaths (and sociopaths) are people who have impaired empathy and remorse.)

    Back on the topic of PE classes, rock climbing might be a good one. Never know when you might need to climb down the outside of a tower or whatever.

    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    Last Edit: 6 years 1 day ago by Kettlekorn.
    6 years 1 day ago - 6 years 1 day ago #27 by Sir Lee
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  • It may seem odd, but there are jobs in which lessened empathy can be a desirable trait. Surgery is one -- it's not for the squeamish. Military officer is another: if you see action, sooner or later they will be faced with a situation where you will have to deliberately send soldiers to their deaths, with the alternative being something worse -- and the last thing you want is a commander who gets paralyzed and can't make up their mind.

    The trick, of course, is to find people who have just the right amount of psychopathy. Enough to be able to function under conditions that would be stressful for more empathetic individuals, but not enough to enjoy fucking with people. You want a surgeon who can do his job dispassionately and carefully, not one who thinks amputations are fun.

    Gore may be under the impression that channeling his psychopathy into medicine is a good idea. Who knows, he might even be right. To my layman's eyes, he appears to be way beyond that balance point. But, again, who knows? He might specialize in pathology -- you can't really hurt corpses.

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 6 years 1 day ago by Sir Lee.
    6 years 1 day ago #28 by Hebblejebble
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  • Sir Lee wrote: It may seem odd, but there are jobs in which lessened empathy can be a desirable trait.


    Another less obvious one can be engineering. If your designing any piece of medical or safety equipment you inevitably reach a trade off between resource cost and human lives. For some major systems (e.g. aeroplane autopilot software) it really can turn into a discussion about "what is an acceptable number of deaths for our equipment to cause?".
    6 years 20 hours ago #29 by Astrodragon
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  • Hebblejebble wrote:

    Sir Lee wrote: It may seem odd, but there are jobs in which lessened empathy can be a desirable trait.


    Another less obvious one can be engineering. If your designing any piece of medical or safety equipment you inevitably reach a trade off between resource cost and human lives. For some major systems (e.g. aeroplane autopilot software) it really can turn into a discussion about "what is an acceptable number of deaths for our equipment to cause?".


    Um. As someone who actually wrote flight-critical software, no, this isn't the calculation you employ.
    Flight-critical software is designed as (a) redundant, and (b) to degrade gracefully.
    That's why its so expensive (we basically added a zero on the end of development costs for it).
    But the only reason cost/safety comes in is from the bean-counters, not the engineeers.

    Note this isnt the same at all as 'bad things hapenning if the system fails', this is somethimes inevitable.

    I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
    6 years 1 hour ago #30 by Mister D
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  • Astrodragon wrote:

    Hebblejebble wrote:

    Sir Lee wrote: It may seem odd, but there are jobs in which lessened empathy can be a desirable trait.


    Another less obvious one can be engineering. If your designing any piece of medical or safety equipment you inevitably reach a trade off between resource cost and human lives. For some major systems (e.g. aeroplane autopilot software) it really can turn into a discussion about "what is an acceptable number of deaths for our equipment to cause?".


    Um. As someone who actually wrote flight-critical software, no, this isn't the calculation you employ.
    Flight-critical software is designed as (a) redundant, and (b) to degrade gracefully.
    That's why its so expensive (we basically added a zero on the end of development costs for it).
    But the only reason cost/safety comes in is from the bean-counters, not the engineeers.

    Note this isnt the same at all as 'bad things hapenning if the system fails', this is somethimes inevitable.


    Applying "The Formula" from "Fight Club".

    "Take the average expected number of deaths from a problem. multiply by the average payout, and compare with the cost of fixing the problem. If the cost is more than the expected loss, then the problem doesn't get fixed."

    As you say, beancounters.

    A good "Bad Example" is Volkswagon, and the way that they gamed the stats for their diesel engines. Everyone in the auto industry was doing it.


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    5 years 11 months ago #31 by elrodw
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  • Hebblejebble wrote:

    Sir Lee wrote: It may seem odd, but there are jobs in which lessened empathy can be a desirable trait.


    Another less obvious one can be engineering. If your designing any piece of medical or safety equipment you inevitably reach a trade off between resource cost and human lives. For some major systems (e.g. aeroplane autopilot software) it really can turn into a discussion about "what is an acceptable number of deaths for our equipment to cause?".


    A family member was a civil engineer with a state Dept of Transportation - designing roads. There was a very cold calculus associated with barricades and barriers - a section of road (esp curves in hills and mountains) could be modeled in terms of number of accidents. Using those models, they traded off the human cost ($ per life) vs. the cost of various barriers and barricades. That gave them the number of $ they would spend.

    The emotional appeal is always "if it saves one life, it'll be worth it." That makes great news, great PR, and it's a great idea if you're a friend or relative or the person whose life is saved, but what is the cost to society? It's harsh, it's cold and heartless, but it's true - society MUST put a value on a human life. If you have to spend $1B to save one life, it's absolutely unsustainable. On average, a person can never contribute $1B back to society to make it a wash.

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