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Question Shifters 101!

3 years 3 weeks ago #1 by Softdreams
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  • Although one of my favorite traits, it's the one I find myself most "???" about.

    I created this thread in order to gain any understand of the shapeshifting trait, since there's not an actual Dr. Weaver I can direct these questions to.

    What's shifter absorption? I have seen it be brought up here and there, but there's hardly any explanation for it.

    When shifters absorb materials be it for mass increase (I'm not sure if that's what the "l" in the wiki site refers to) or creating clothing are they kept in the body or spewed back out?

    What's the link between shifters and regens? (when Heyoka visits the hospital, the doctors nonchalantly told them to simply shift?)

    I guess shapeshifting is a case by case ability, like all others. But is Verdant's application of the ability even remotely common? Like something Reinforce could potentially learn? Or a rarity among rarities?

    Most shifters seem to be able to simply... Shift, despite knowing nothing about anatomy. Would that be linked to ESP?

    Please throw in any extra shapeshifting facts, I find shifters entertaining!
    3 years 3 weeks ago #2 by null0trooper
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  • Softdreams wrote: What's the link between shifters and regens? (when Heyoka visits the hospital, the doctors nonchalantly told them to simply shift?)


    In terms of templates, it would make almost no sense for a full-body shifter to shift to a template with injuries included. Body tissues are being moved around as well as changed (not that skin cells to hair, keratin plates, claws, hooves, feathers, scales, etc. is that much change), so lacerations, bruising, fractures are far more likely than not (within energy limitations) to get fixed during the next shift.

    As a medicine person with a close connection to Thunderbird, Heyoka is a bad example when comparing their healing abilities to other shifters without such connections.

    Softdreams wrote: What's shifter absorption? I have seen it be brought up here and there, but there's hardly any explanation for it.


    Q: Where does the excess mass go when a shifter gets smaller?
    A: Wherever it needs to for the character to work. No ethics review board is going to sit still for vivisection to be carried out before, during, and after shifting.

    Leather, silk, wool, skin, and muscle are all proteins just like your steak and eggs. Cotton, linen, wood, and sugars are even more similar carbohydrates. Without literal transmutation going on, the calcium phosphate in teeth and bones, calcium carbonate (as aragonite) or silica (usually amorphous) in shells are limited resources, although there may be processes to resculpt the critical materials on a protein scaffold. Basically, the shifter's body consumes the stuff for energy, repairs, maybe reinforcing bits here and there. If there is still some left over, it's dumped the same way your breakfast gets dumped.

    If you paid attention to the manifestors, ectoplasm is pretty good for making fairly complex organic materials on the spot as long as they are reasonably "natural" (overpattern templates at the planetary level may matter as much as templates for coding proteins). "mass varies within a limited range, not taken from an outside source" means "not taken from an outside source that we can identify and quantize"


    Magic-, spirit-, or god-based shapeshifting works because it works. Regardless of what the powers testers put on their MID, it's a bad idea to extrapolate from Heyoka to anyone else who is not an astral avatar favored by a deity-level entity.

    Counter-arguments starting with "But Jimmy T..." can also be safely ignored unless the discussion is about other Shifter-6 beings.

    Proponents of treating Occam's Razor as more a physical law than the rule of thumb that it is shall be fed to the nearest Shifter-7, along with anything else that will keep it happy.

    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    3 years 3 weeks ago #3 by Kristin Darken
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  • Fortunately for you, the creator of the shifter ranking system is still present. Before I joined, the full description of Shifters was very basic and vague. As part of my submission of Fling as a protagonist character and to join the canon team; I created what is now the official breakdown. That being:

    Shifter (SH)
    These mutants have a powerful psychokinetic ability over their bodies at the very molecular level. There is apparently some connection between the Shifter syndrome and the exemplar syndrome, but shifters vary rarely display exemplar traits.

    So sub-classifications:

    u - unstable shifts body(part) reverts from shift to some natural form
    t - toggle shift a set number of forms exist and the body shifts back and forth between them
    i - one way shift each shift ends with a new 'final' product that is stable

    f - full form shift no partial changes possible, form moves from one complete to the next
    p - partial form capable of shifting a limb, skin, or any major part of the form
    r - refined capable of shifting a very refined portion of the form

    a - appearance shift is appearance only, the actual make-up of the person remains same
    n - functional internal organs and body chemistry adapt to serve new form
    c - complete the new form is completely unique from the previous, and fully functional in any way (only type c of the a/n/c grouping mimics powers and innate talents)

    s - stimulus shift is triggered by an external stimuli
    w - controlled shift is controlled through willpower or some directed means

    m - mass const. mass remains constant during shift
    l - localized mass varies within a limited range using external objects to comprise difference
    e - extended mass varies within a limited range, not taken from an outside source
    g - irregular mass fluctuates from form to form without limit


    Level 1: limited to first stage (u, f, a, s, m) in at least four of the following: number of forms, amount of body that can be changed, functionality, control, or mass limitation (and not meeting req's of 4+).
    Level 2: limited by at least three categories as above (and not meeting req's of 4+).
    Level 3: limited by at least two categories as above (and not meeting req's of 4+).
    Level 4: minimal rating for a shifter showing one classification: i, r, or l
    Level 5: minimal rating for a shifter showing classification: e or c
    also minimal rating for classification showing both: i and r
    Level 6: minimal rating for a shifter showing classification: g
    also minimal rating for a shifter showing all three of: i, r and c

    Finally, if a shifter can shift to gain powers in another category (for example, if they can shift to become as strong as a Level 4 TK, or duplicate the feats of a Level 3 exemplar), then they are given at least that level in shifting power.


    I'll go into some specifics in a moment, but first let me explain where I was coming from in setting things up the way they are. Shifters in comics are notoriously powerful... not in how they act, perhaps; but definitely in what their capabilities are. And what that ability implies is possible for them. And just as the 'obvious' power sets of Exemplar, PK, and TK were limited; Shifters needed to be 'reasonably' bound by biology/physics and not capable of things that are so far beyond the scope of human capability. As the author team wanted to link psychokinetics / psionics to the Shifter power, making it a sort of crossover between a biological TK, Manifestation, and Regen; I set up a system that capped capability (and ranked it) with how much of each of those things would be necessary to achieve each sort of shift.

    Next, I looked at the scope of shifting in existing literature. There's the super obvious - werewolf transformation. This is most commonly a shift between two complete forms. Occasionally there's a third 'mid way' form or 'battle' form. Also occasionally, a were has the capability to do things that more appropriately fall in the 'next' category. The standard super-hero shifter - in which mental control allows a shifter to change a given part of their body to something else. A weapon, a tool, to adopt characteristics of another creature or person. Sometimes these adaptations are surface only, sometimes they're far more inclusive and involve rearranging organs or forming unique internal biology. And finally, there are Shifts that involve size change. We already have density and 'mass' Warpers, so we don't necessarily need to include all aspects of this... but it was something that had to be considered.

    From this, I got several vectors:
    A Shifter can have from 1 to X complete forms.
    A Shifter might be able to adapt a part to their whole body in ANY fashion, outside of complete forms.
    A Shifter may or may not need conscious control to sustain a shift, or control may be a result of an outside force.
    A Shift may be limited to existing matter (internal or localized) or extend to outside sources.
    A Shift may range from appearance to complete biological, genetic, or even metadimensional changes.

    As far as I could tell, all shifting in my knowledge could be covered by some combination of these five factors. So I worked out a system that defined rank based on the greatest flexibility, variation/control of base forms, and conservation of mass.

    The end result creates a Shifter that can easily encompass a straightforward 'were' creature but is especially restrictive of 'at will' transformation of body parts in ways that challenge biological capabilities. Mystique type mutants are possible, but are very high end. As are those Shifters that can absorb or shed matter (or draw it from outside the physical world)... which prevents the existence of comic book Shifters that transform into Rhinoceros, whales, or other massive creatures. Shifters, like Devisors and Mages are powerful in their diversity... and even the low ranked ones can can potentially challenge much higher ranked mutants with other traits.


    So, that said... your specific questions:

    Absorption is, as Null notes, about what the Shifter counts as 'body'. Some Shifters can only control their own biology, so they're limited to everything within their skin... plus maybe their hair. Static form Shifter's are typically this way. A werewolf takes off their clothes because they aren't going to change. They'll just be a wolf inside clothing. Part of that is because the 'template' of what they are shifting to is set in stone. They turn to a wolf. They turn back to a human. That human form doesn't have clothing on. But an unstable form Shifter, like someone who can change their fist into a hammer? They're not dealing with an end template that says when reach that changed form, it looks like 'this'. Some of them are limited to the body still... but some aren't. That's especially true when you get to the point of being able to alter mass to be smaller or larger... because you have to be able to shed or acquire mass from somewhere. Some Shifters will do that from their immediate environment... grabbing chunks of ground or air... and including that in the end result. And if they can manipulate it to look like organic tissue, couldn't they also manipulate it to look like cloth? Or a watch? Or anything else?

    Link to Regens. Many Shifters go to a template form. The template form isn't injured (usually). So as long as they have the strength and consciousness to Shift to that uninjured form, they effectively heal. That could, theoretically, make them faster to recovery than someone with Regen. However, it usually requires consciousness and sufficient focus to make the Shift... which isn't always possible when you're badly injured. So while it MIGHT be faster and more effective, its also not as reliable. Shifters who don't have static forms to go to have to actively 'Shift' to repair wounds... in that sense, they're basically on par with self-healers.

    As to knowing anatomy... yes, that's something Shifters will study at Whateley. Not all of them get the same benefit though... as many Shifters are only surface level / appearance Shifters. But a Shifter that is capable of not only changing the length of their limbs or how the cartilege lies to look differently, but is capable of creating non-human organs to process toxins, to generate electrical conduits of electrolytic fluids that create another fluid system in the body... they can make good use of the knowledge.

    But also, not knowing anatomy CAN be detrimental to a Shifter. An untrained Shifter can do things to their body that make them incapable of staying alive. The more powerful a Shifter is, the more potential there is that they'll change something that results in a problem that can kill them. That's not unique to Shifters... high ranked mutants burn out for lots of reasons and 'changes that the body cannot survive' is right up there at the top of the list.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 2 weeks ago #4 by ShadowedSin
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  • God Kristin I love it when you download info so I can use it later in my faerie notes :D

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    3 years 2 weeks ago #5 by Kristin Darken
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  • By the way... to further point out mass acquiring/shedding shifters. I once created/wrote about a mass-flexible shifter that people thought had cold / wind powers... because she was capable of some degree of control over what specific mass a Shift would draw on when she was adding or removing mass from her form. And if you build mass by only drawing from the air, the process of moving a large enough volume of air into a location and compressing it into solid form to absorb into her body would be pull a large amount of air in... and shedding that mass in a focused way could create a blast of air (or even a small concussive wave). And it would be COLD because of the energy involved having to come from somewhere.

    But there's also other things you could do with a mass variant shifter... things like Ayla or Tinsnip due with density interference... put your hand on a lock and Shift to a large mass, taking the lock into the mass involved in the Shift. Whether or not the Shifter can give the lock back afterwards? Depends on skill and adaptability. With sufficient adaptability, a Shifter can easily reproduce most common clothing items... after all, most of what we wear is organic material anyway. And for non-synthetic items, they can keep a 'reserve' tucked away somewhere, allowing them to Shift into exotic metals... not enough to Shift into a suit of armor... doing so would require far too much metal hidden in the body to bring out as armor...

    Of course, there ARE those who pull ectoplasm from 'outside' or shunt excess mass into dimensional energy... which is almost like Manifesting or Warping... and that's where you get most of the major mass changes or especially exotic capabilities in Shifting. And that's why they're at the top of the heap rank wise.

    If you DID want a more super-hero comic style Shifter who did all the arm turned into weapon and legs into tank tracks, etc... you might do that with Shifting in combination with PK and/or Manifesting. Making an organic body do some of those things (and stay functional/intact) might not be possible naturally, but enclosed in a PK shell or a Manifested outer layer? Possible. Though you're talking multiple traits above 4 or 5 to do it even so... so be sure to recognize that they're at the top levels of power in the WU if you do.

    Mimics and Power Mimics who are Shifters are often similar to a Were style shift. They have template forms that they flip between without having any stability or conscious control over the 'in between'. The difference between depth/complexity of the Shift determines whether those mimicries are skin deep, at a genetic level... or reach the metaphysical level, where the powers come from. A Power Mimic Shifter is working with a number of set templates with variables that are filled in by an outside source... the person they are copying. In Fling's case specifically, those variables don't 'set' immediately... which allows the form to be acquired/fluid over time, until conditions are met for that template to lock. Of course, many Power Mimics lock and hold for a set time... or lock and only have access to a set number of template 'slots'.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 2 weeks ago #6 by Softdreams
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  • null0trooper wrote: Magic-, spirit-, or god-based shapeshifting works because it works. Regardless of what the powers testers put on their MID, it's a bad idea to extrapolate from Heyoka to anyone else who is not an astral avatar favored by a deity-level entity.


    Thanks for your insightful answers, Null. Very informative. And yes, I had long assumed Avatar-shifters differed greatly from actual Shifters.

    Similar on the surface yet so different. Just as useful, though.
    3 years 2 weeks ago - 3 years 2 weeks ago #7 by Softdreams
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  • Thanks for answering, Kristin. That's a whole lot of information and I'm loving every bit of it!

    By the way... to further point out mass acquiring/shedding shifters. I once created/wrote about a mass-flexible shifter that people thought had cold / wind powers... because she was capable of some degree of control over what specific mass a Shift would draw on when she was adding or removing mass from her form. And if you build mass by only drawing from the air, the process of moving a large enough volume of air into a location and compressing it into solid form to absorb into her body would be pull a large amount of air in... and shedding that mass in a focused way could create a blast of air (or even a small concussive wave). And it would be COLD because of the energy involved having to come from somewhere.


    That's incredibly interesting, and something I would have never even thought of as being within a shifter's capabilities. Shapeshifting is definitely one of the most interesting traits to read about.

    If you DID want a more super-hero comic style Shifter who did all the arm turned into weapon and legs into tank tracks, etc... you might do that with Shifting in combination with PK and/or Manifesting. Making an organic body do some of those things (and stay functional/intact) might not be possible naturally, but enclosed in a PK shell or a Manifested outer layer? Possible. Though you're talking multiple traits above 4 or 5 to do it even so... so be sure to recognize that they're at the top levels of power in the WU if you do.


    Definitely not as complicated/powerful/versatile as this, it's a far simpler character. I pretty much threw information together and decided to type out an idea I had hanging around my head for a while. So far, it's only a character template, not much story-wise.

    I'll copy and paste it what I have written so far.

    Animorpho's Abilities: Mage. Shapeshifting trait that allows him to take on animal-hybrid forms, these forms are completely functional and with the right training can be controlled. NO insect-hybrid forms of any type. Alterable BIT shifter.

    His abilities are almost identical to Reinforce's (including limitations) except for one thing; his facial structure cannot be completely changed, while decently altered the appearance always holds some resemblance. Making his ability useful for functionality yet not for disguise. The biggest form he can shift into is a 16'-ft-tailed naga.

    Despite being into guys, he was originally placed in Emerson (his mother sat by him as he filled out the forms) until he started shifting and releasing pheromones while asleep, his cottagemates were sent into a variety of states; non-ragers having rager episodes, etc... Therefore, he was moved to Hawthorne until he gained some control over his abilities.

    Overly confident in his powers yet works very hard at managing them, he can be commonly found in the pool practicing aquatic forms, or binge-reading novels in Hawthorne. LOVES magic. Wishes to join a super team, slightly morally ambiguous but leaning heavily towards the Hero scene. Aiming for a super-sorcerer position and considers his shifting to be the cherry on top. BIG eater.

    Some Melville shifters give him fashion tips and shifter-clothing lessons.

    He likes to shift his nails into claws for a threatening effect.

    His inability to shift his facial structure completely helps solidify his sense of identity.

    Last Edit: 3 years 2 weeks ago by Softdreams.
    3 years 2 weeks ago #8 by Kristin Darken
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  • That would indeed be a powerful Shifter... definitely outside the boundaries of what is possible in the WU. Of course, its not a canon character so that's not as important but just be aware that you are working at that point on the scale. What makes it so?

    Many completely functional alternate forms (animal forms). No guess work or biological problems, wants to go to a different form and just does. Add on top of that that some of the forms are 'mythical' creatures... which means, generally, non-standard biology (this isn't just genetic level, but pushing into metadimensional - where BITs and powers come from). No defined cap on how many different templates.

    Not only template results, but also interim effects... shifting to claws on a human body. Allows the potential to Shift to ANYthing at conscious will as well as locked templates, implies being able to blend aspects of existing templates.

    Shifting to a 16' naga would be a significant mass change, easily double if not triple the mass of a teenager. Shy of tearing cow sized holes in the environment every time the character takes this form, its drawing from outside the physical plane.

    That's not to say that you intend to write them as this powerful... however, by giving them this potential, there will always be a sense of "well, they have the ability to do X... so why didn't they just solve this problem by doing Y, which is possible within the same boundaries". This is basically everything a Shifter could possibly be capable of... without being a power mimic. So you can see why they'd be 'off the scale'.

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    3 years 2 weeks ago - 3 years 2 weeks ago #9 by Softdreams
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  • I've got a question... How's he an incredible powerful character if he has far more limitations than Reinforce (no insect-hybrid forms, far more limited mass change, can't alter facial structure completely, needs to take time in between forms, only hybrids and some appearance shifting) and Reinforce ranks at High 4?

    Naga as in snake-human hybrid. Not the mythical creature. He cannot shift into mythical creatures just look-alikes.

    To add onto it; I do think he'd be a powerful character, since I find myself taking forms away, and even limiting his abilities in multiple other ways so he won't become OP. But he pales in comparison to Adam, who ranks at high 4, so wouldn't he be within conventional limits of shapeshifting?
    Last Edit: 3 years 2 weeks ago by Softdreams.
    3 years 2 weeks ago #10 by Kristin Darken
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  • Naga in the WU are similar to the Sidhe in the WU... they're a specific ancient magical race. But even if you just go with snake-human, you're talking about mixing reptilian and mammalian biology in one creature... one capable of sentient thought.

    As to Adam/Reinforce being high Rank 4... let's go back to the trait/rank description:

    Does Adam have templated/stable end points to Shifts? While Adam Shifts on-the-fly reactively with combinations of parts necessary for survival; when he settles into a 'safe' form at the end of it, he forms a stable template (one that he can't easily or quickly break out of, unless the reactive nature moves him again). So U/T/I category is I.
    How much of the form shifts? F/P/R? very small subtle shifts are possible. So R.
    How deep is the change? Obviously more than skin deep as they are traits that protect from natural damages. But not at a degree of giving other powers, so of A/N/C, this is N.
    Stimulus or willpower? Again, this appears to be reactive... Adam's Shifts come as reactions to protect/aid him... and he can't shed them immediately either. However, he does have some templated results that he can jump to. These are limited and 'most' of his exploring is uncontrolled, so we'll go with S/W, as S.
    Mass? Adam clearly pulls on mass without it coming from his environment. So M/L/E/G? Is G.

    G puts him automatically at minimum of 6. If he had local mass limits or wasn't able to boost his mass and just move it around, he could probably come in at 4 because while he has a huge range/flexibility, its mostly reactive and not willpower controlled. He can't consciously think "Cat" and shift instantly to cat. He can get to cat if cat is the solution to the danger he faces. Or at least that's the 'theory'... in practice/story context, he doesn't talk it up that way so it sounds more like he can just shift to whatever he wants. But when he says he can Shift to something up in the 2+ ton range, that's your big indicator right there. No matter what other combination of aspects (and his biological detail aspects are powerful as hell too), that mass acquisition pushes him to Shifter 6 all on its own.

    In his introduction in Powers Theory, when he claimed to be high 4, and then went on to talk about high mass Shifts; he should have been corrected. Take it as "I'm making myself seem slightly less dangerous by quoting a lower number" and the teacher not calling him on it because its day one. But the first time they discuss mass and where the hell he's getting tons of extra mass when he bulks up? Someone's going to call him on it.

    And yes, Reinforce is POWERFUL. Fling is POWERFUL and Reinforce is the more powerful of the two. Fling's Shifts go deeper (metadimensional), but with significantly less control, stability, and mass limitations. Either one of them, in their 30's after four years of Whateley and a decade of experience... will be able to go toe to toe with any TEAM of mutants shy of A-listers.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 2 weeks ago #11 by Softdreams
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  • Thanks for the clarification, Kristin!

    Now that definitely explains and helps A LOT!

    Well, apparently I will have to make some changes in order to reel my character back within the limits of either 3/4. What would you suggest?

    I had some very good scenes planned out with the "l" category; mostly fashion-wise. So that's something I'm reluctant to give up.

    And that immediately bumps the shifter up to 4. So... Is there anything else I could do to keep the character well within these limits without changing the course set by the character template drastically?
    3 years 2 weeks ago #12 by Kettlekorn
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  • You could ditch the mass changes, for one. You can still have a character look like they've grown without actually changing their mass by making the larger forms hollow (perhaps use pressurized air bladders to avoid needing a bunch of bones to support the shape).

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    3 years 1 week ago #13 by Valentine
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  • The weird things you can find on the internet...

    Body parts by percentages

    So if we start with a 130 lb person, and make him into a 16 foot naga. We keep around 80 lbs. (All math is rough) Add 13 feet of snake, figure about 9 feet of cylindrical body and 4 feet of tapered end works out to about 350 lbs.

    So your 130 lb kid now weighs 430 lbs or about 3.5 times as much. Might be a bit less, I used a 31.4159 inch waist. .036 lbs/cubic inch.

    Note this means his 50 lbs of legs become 350 lbs of tail, that's 7 times the original weight. Where the 300 lbs. comes from could be interesting.

    IIRC in the Wildcard Series a shape shifter absorbed heat to increase mass, and released a flash of light when returning to normal. (Of course converting 130 kg of mass into energy could be bad.)

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    3 years 1 week ago #14 by JG
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  • Also: Bear in mind I'd never seen this scale before I made Adam, so I was asspulling.

    But yeas, Adam does have hard mass limits. Kaiju bullshit is impossible for him. Some of his limitations are arbitrary and make no sense because... sometimes powers are arbitrary and make no sense.
    3 years 1 week ago #15 by Anne
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  • In some ways, except for control, Adam (Reinforce) is as powerful as Jimmy T.
    3 years 1 week ago #16 by JG
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  • Oh God no. Jimmy Trauger is way off the charts.
    3 years 1 week ago #17 by Kristin Darken
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  • JG wrote: Oh God no. Jimmy Trauger is way off the charts.


    Ya he is. :P And that's fine. He also has some major problems that balance out some of that power... and if those happen to be things that don't impact a given ranking system...

    There's wiggle room. As with any of the ranking systems, they're a tool/system for the powers theorists and testing wonks based on the sorts of evolutionary jumps necessary to acquire certain powers... more than measures of what's possible.

    To some extent, Shifting being its own power trait is something of a misnomer. A big part of that is that, if you look at the most complicated Shifts; they are 'more' than just moving around organic mass to accomplish a different biological 'shape'. Shifting at that degree is Manifesting organic mass (or doing mass-energy-mass conversion, with the neutral energy point being ectoplasm or something similar - which is on par with what Healers and Regens do). There's some flexing of the physical laws of nature and the metadimensional, akin to Warping. There's BIT style templating, and TK style protection of healthy organs and skin/bones during the process holding things together, moving them around, keeping the body intact while it warps and moves around.

    If we only counted biological TK of shifting as we normally do TK - with a power and a finesse rating; Shifting would be all about how many and how detailed the forms would be... and then a Shifter would need an additional / secondary Warping power to measure any metadimensional effects (templates, powers mimicry, etc), and a third Manifesting power to do anything with mass that isn't part of their natural body. Then we'd have a lot more lower ranked Shifters... they'd simply also have one or more necessary secondary traits. Instead, this lumps it all into one trait which 'forces' authors to look at scale a bit more.


    Jimmy T (and a LOT of early well defined 'powerful' characters) tend to operate on the very high end (if not ABOVE) the 6 rank scale. This is for two reasons... one, original authors were writing a setting into which their OP characters (intentionally OP, so you know... that was part of the backstory... a team of kids WAY above the average for the universe they were in) would be slotted. So many of the core personalities that they interacted with were also very powerful... and meant to be 'exceptions' to the system. On top of that, as we moved forward with things and took a better look at the math and physics involved (and weighed that against the intention that the WU was supposed to be more 'human' in scale than DC or Marvel)... and revised the charts downward. As a result, some of those more powerful entities ended up above the system in place now. We could go back and retcon... but we're not big fans of retconning. So its mostly explained away as a misunderstanding between what theory describes and what their actual power is (unreliable narrator). If someone does something that is 'impossible' based on the ranks as we know it... you can either assume someone is exaggerating.. or that in a 'feat of heroism' they have exceeded what is supposed to be possible for them (or anyone).

    That's especially easy to fix for rank numbers.. because we can always say "the tester didn't think to do X... and thus never saw the condition needed to bump the rank to the higher (accurate) level".

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 1 week ago #18 by Commander_Knight35
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  • Where does Kristin find the time to come up with all this stuff?
    3 years 1 week ago #19 by JG
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  • I can confirm Kristin came up with most of this shit with the others before I joined. It wasn't always coherent, some of it was really easy to miss, but most of it was there.
    3 years 1 week ago #20 by Kristin Darken
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  • *nods*

    One of the most important things to remember is that we've always been about the stories. While all these 'technical' details can be useful in certain situations, it's not what makes good stories. Where this sort of stuff is valuable is a game mindset... where you're trying to codify details and balance a system to predict challenge level and to provide some element of fair play between what is available for all the players. Stories? None of that matters. If a character is insanely powerful, you can balance them out with things that are completely unmeasured by an RPG. In a story, its ok if your protagonist and antagonist are literally unique within their world. Authors involved in the canon storyline have more limits on them... because changes to the sandbox can change more than just one story... but we make an effort not to pin down too many details unless they're needed for something, so we don't paint ourselves into a corner.

    And remember, we've been doing this since late 2004. It might seem like a lot, but... I wouldn't be surprised to find out we have readers who weren't even alive when we started.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 1 week ago #21 by Valentine
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  • Hmmm. I'd always assumed that there was either some inherent Warping or power/mass coming from or going to "elsewhere" like with the TK bricks, Energy projectors, and others that put out a lot more energy than the could ever consume.

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    3 years 1 week ago #22 by Kristin Darken
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  • Ya. Not sure if you caught the little presentation I did for the last Crystal Con about the re-envisioned or 'unifying theory' concept on power traits. Basically, it breaks powers down like this:

    Magic - is its own thing. Based on the acquisition, storage, manipulation and expression of Essence.
    Avatars - also its own thing. Based on bonding with and providing both spirit energy and a hallow for spirits or similar beings who benefit from the use of spirit energy and need the safety of a hallow to engage in activities / causes in the physical world.
    Exemplar - is its own thing. The physical expression of the BIT.

    All other mutant abilities are based on three things: Psi, Warping and Manifesting. And, with some 'wiggle', these three can all be condensed into One: Psi.

    The difference between them being primarily on 'where' the Psi is expressed and what it manipulates. The 'where' being: internal, aura/sheath, external, dimensional.

    Energy is acquired from the veil / boundary between dimensions... generated by the 'friction' between them as they are contained by the unique laws and conceptual frameworks. Brought into the physical world, the energy is by default ectoplasm but can be given other form through mental discipline - as matter/mass (regen, shifting, healing, and manifesting), or as other forms of energy (Energizers, Psi's, PKs and their variants, etc).

    Warpers are just Psi's that use their power dimensionally, bridging two worlds temporarily so that the 'laws' within the area effect function within the 'bounds' of that other world instead of this one.
    Manifesters grab that 'loose' energy in between worlds and impose inorganic form on it... or use it to shape 'animated' illusions in various degrees of 'physical' and when their will is broken, it collapses back to ectoplasm before dissolving.
    Shifters rearrange mass through bio-telekinetics and use ectoplasm with imposed organic forms much as healers and regens do... or shed mass into ectoplasm.
    PK's impose a non-physical form on what they grab, turning it to structured energy within their aura. TK, TP, Emp work with with the Psi externally.
    Gadgeteer and Devisors are ESPer variants, either working with knowledge and time, or with knowledge and dimensional law and boundaries.

    Seems to work as a unified concept, doesn't it?

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    3 years 1 week ago #23 by JG
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  • It also makes for amazing fodder for screaming arguments within the context of the story.

    Because there's no consensus in-Universe what's going on.
    3 years 1 week ago #24 by Valentine
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  • JG wrote: It also makes for amazing fodder for screaming arguments within the context of the story.

    Because there's no consensus in-Universe what's going on.


    Thousands of WU scientists and researchers turn as one and say, "Yes there is. I am right."

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    3 years 6 days ago #25 by JG
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  • Valentine wrote:
    Thousands of WU scientists and researchers turn as one and say, "Yes there is. I am right."


    And promptly fall to infighting over whose theory is the correct one.
    3 years 6 days ago #26 by Kristin Darken
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  • JG wrote:

    Valentine wrote:
    Thousands of WU scientists and researchers turn as one and say, "Yes there is. I am right."


    And promptly fall to infighting over whose theory is the correct one.


    Oh hell yes.

    And someone will develop what seems like a perfect theory that solves everything... and then someone will manifest that throws it all out the window.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
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