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Question GSD and it's complications?

9 years 4 weeks ago - 8 years 9 months ago #1 by Malady
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  • What are some GSD complications?

    We already know about MATD...

    There was talk about Mold-girl / Lollipop, being cut as survival chance was low, but what would she have died from?
    I guess having immune rejection? Or bits of herself falling off? Eww..

    'Cause I'm planning an Ice-girl, and I want to know what the problems are with that plan. ... But, I could just have the ice-body as a projection from the Astral or something... Which might not fit with canon metaphysics or whatever...

    Also, how did the light-girl of the pattern theory lecture survive her mutation?
    Last Edit: 8 years 9 months ago by Malady.
    9 years 4 weeks ago #2 by Valentine
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  • GSD complications are as varied as GSD is. From none, to having to be connected to life support machines constantly.

    Since WU uses more real world physics, Icegirl likely would need to be kept cold so she doesn't melt. Frostbite will just love her.

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    9 years 4 weeks ago - 9 years 4 weeks ago #3 by Jarjaross
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  • I agree with Valentine's assesment of the situation but there is also diet to consider.

    We know that many GSD students have special dietary requirements. (Depending on how it works the light girl might not need to eat as she could gain sustanance from absorbing light into herself). The questions you should be asking are: What does the Ice girl need to eat? How does she eat? Does she eat? How does she get her energy from the food? As well as other related questions about how to deal with her unique physiology.

    Side note, one of the characters in the Ayla stories is made solely of water, he regenerates by taking showers. Does your ice girl have a similar ability to grow/regenerate in the presence of water/Ice?

    My dreams take me to far off lands and times of distant past and future. They tell what has been done, what will happen and who I am. They show me things beyond the machinations of any man. Tell me, what are dreams to you?
    Last Edit: 9 years 4 weeks ago by Jarjaross.
    9 years 3 weeks ago #4 by Domoviye
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  • Here's the most important question.
    What do you need for the story?
    You could have her inner body acting like a block of ultra cold ice so her outer shape doesn't melt except in the most extreme heat, she could constantly be melting but her body just keeps manifesting ice, her outer skin could be something not quite ice that acts like insulation for her inside. There are lots of options.
    As for eating. what makes the most sense. Ice girl might eat ice cream and freeze pops all the time. Light girl could feed off of radiation from the sun like a plant, or suck in electricity. How do you want it to go?
    9 years 3 weeks ago #5 by Malady
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  • Thank you, all, for sufficiently answering my questions! ... You don't have to keep giving me ideas, 'cause I've got my own, so you can keep them for yourselves!
    9 years 3 weeks ago #6 by Ametros
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  • I might be wrong in this, but I'm under the impression that the biggest impedance to having characters with serious GSD/MATD is that these are gradual processes, and rarely happen in a rapid manner. As such, I think that the individuals reach a state where the original human physiology becomes sufficiently messed up that life cannot be sustained for the remainder of the process. Furthermore, due to the extreme changes of some, and the uniqueness of the changes, assisted life support is far from viable across the board.

    Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
    9 years 3 weeks ago #7 by Domoviye
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  • You're right.
    One comment I had about Tink from a good source was that her change was too sudden. So that has to be taken into consideration.
    Having a character who is very strange might have him or her almost starving to death before their body changes enough to find a new food source, or several days of barely being able to breathe as their lungs struggle to work, and other painful factors.
    Or since it's fanfic you can ignore those details and handwave it out of the way.
    9 years 3 weeks ago #8 by DanZilla
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  • Domoviye wrote: You're right.
    One comment I had about Tink from a good source was that her change was too sudden. So that has to be taken into consideration.
    Having a character who is very strange might have him or her almost starving to death before their body changes enough to find a new food source, or several days of barely being able to breathe as their lungs struggle to work, and other painful factors.
    Or since it's fanfic you can ignore those details and handwave it out of the way.


    Tinks' change was Too Quick... or was it... perhaps she grew a new form within herself for a long time before a sudden transference of her conciousness...
    9 years 3 weeks ago #9 by Ametros
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  • The closer you stay to human physiology, the better. Otherwise you have to factor in and/or explain away how somebody became a sentient block of ice without killing themselves in the process via messing up their cardiovascular system or a number of different ways.

    For how extreme Puppet's situation is, the extent of the change strikes me as less so. Her biological process that have failed can at least be simulated by machines to keep her alive - as tragic as the whole thing is.

    Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
    9 years 3 weeks ago #10 by Domoviye
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  • DanZilla wrote:

    Domoviye wrote: You're right.
    One comment I had about Tink from a good source was that her change was too sudden. So that has to be taken into consideration.
    Having a character who is very strange might have him or her almost starving to death before their body changes enough to find a new food source, or several days of barely being able to breathe as their lungs struggle to work, and other painful factors.
    Or since it's fanfic you can ignore those details and handwave it out of the way.


    Tinks' change was Too Quick... or was it... perhaps she grew a new form within herself for a long time before a sudden transference of her conciousness...


    That was my excuse, I just got a newspaper to the head and "Bad Domoviye!" :lol:
    9 years 3 weeks ago #11 by Valentine
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  • Ametros wrote: I might be wrong in this, but I'm under the impression that the biggest impedance to having characters with serious GSD/MATD is that these are gradual processes, and rarely happen in a rapid manner. As such, I think that the individuals reach a state where the original human physiology becomes sufficiently messed up that life cannot be sustained for the remainder of the process. Furthermore, due to the extreme changes of some, and the uniqueness of the changes, assisted life support is far from viable across the board.


    That depends upon what the GSD does. Fubar is supposedly the most severe case of GSD to ever survive. He survives on brine shrimp and "breathes" water and doesn't appear to be human, or even human based. Puppet needs continuous life-support, but appears fairly normal. Slab, Razorback, Diamondback, Gadget, and others all have appearances far from normal, but get along fairly well, and interact with others on a normal basis.

    There, to my recollection, hasn't been a lot of discussions about mutants dying from GSD, although based upon Fubar being the worst to survive, others must have died.

    GSD, in some form or another, seems to be fairly common. going by the number of students that have some form of it. Roughly half of Twain, Whitman, and Hawthorne likely have some form of GSD, along with a few in the other cottages makes about 25% of the students having some GSD.

    Remember that along with the obvious cases, people like Aquerna, Peeper, Deadeye, also have GSD. Fey, the other Sidhe and the Drow don't have GSD, although they often get tossed in for their physical changes.

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    9 years 3 weeks ago #12 by Jarjaross
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  • Actually Sidhe are considered to have GSD (it was mentioned in a story, can't remember which), although it is very minor. Anyone whose eyes change colour is technically a GSD case under the broadest of terms (mentioned in the same story).

    Interesting fact GSD cases are all genetically completely human, which does mean that Sidhe (and Tennyo) aren't GSD case because they don't have human DNA anymore.

    … thinking about it where does Jade fall at this point? Is she still human after the infusion of Starkiller soul? Not a topic for this thread but any idea to put out there if there is an appropriate one.

    My dreams take me to far off lands and times of distant past and future. They tell what has been done, what will happen and who I am. They show me things beyond the machinations of any man. Tell me, what are dreams to you?
    9 years 3 weeks ago - 9 years 3 weeks ago #13 by Kristin Darken
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  • Jarjaross wrote: Interesting fact GSD cases are all genetically completely human, which does mean that Sidhe (and Tennyo) aren't GSD case because they don't have human DNA anymore.

    No, Sidhe are no longer human at all. If you find anything in a story that implies otherwise; it is purely a matter of "that character doesn't know" not evidence to the contrary. Thus why Sidhe and humans cannot breed. And why there are no Sidhe without Exemplar traits (and thus Regen) and a BIT. The Sidhe equivalent to DNA and their BIT define the goal for the regeneration, without which (along with a flow of Essence) they could not survive the process of becoming something completely unique. And note that this core change is one of the FIRST things that happens when they manifest... the outer physical nature may lag behind the change to their core nature... where its just regenerative cell growth replacing old organs and taking on new shapes as appropriate for the adolescent growth process (maturing at a faster than normal pace, typically).

    GSD doesn't have the advantage of a stable end result (BIT). It's a physiological change... and in many cases, those changes are not supported by other things that have also changed (or stayed the same as a normal human). So yes, it is entirely possible for a GSD case to progress to a point at which the GSD condition conflicts with the operation of the body as a whole. And in some cases, its not survivable. In cases where there is little to no Regen involved, medical science can bridge the transformation (if there's a possibility of a stable result on the other side). In cases where there is a LOT of regen involved, the body might survive the 'bridge' period through rapid healing and replacement of the parts of the body that would kill it before the bad stuff DOES kill them. Mid range regen? Might cause the changes to happen too fast for science to bridge it... while not being quite enough to survive it naturally. The impact of regen and bridging conditions is mainly a matter of 'what story do I want to be telling' of course.

    Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
    Last Edit: 9 years 3 weeks ago by Kristin Darken.
    9 years 2 weeks ago #14 by Cryptic
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  • Other then the pointy ears and (occasionally?) overly large eyes and on the genetic level, is there really anything that if a doctor was comparing a Sidhe's body to a baseline humans that stands out as non-standard? IE same organs in the same place and no extra ones, no extra bones or lack of bones...

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    9 years 2 weeks ago #15 by Astrodragon
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  • Cryptic wrote: Other then the pointy ears and (occasionally?) overly large eyes and on the genetic level, is there really anything that if a doctor was comparing a Sidhe's body to a baseline humans that stands out as non-standard? IE same organs in the same place and no extra ones, no extra bones or lack of bones...


    Maybe not so much to a man in the street, but I suspect things like bone structure and so on would be obvious to a doctor even without a detailed examination.

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    9 years 2 weeks ago #16 by Domoviye
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  • Kind of like with The Doctor, looks human on the outside, but inside he's got 2 hearts and god knows what else.
    9 years 2 weeks ago #17 by Kristin Darken
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  • The Cabal might seem a lot like a bunch of mad gods... but really, we don't know enough about genetics and interdimensional entity anatomy ... or about the necessary physiological components of a sentient organism capable of actively immersing itself in world-currents of magickal energy. We just don't know what it would take to make a being like a Sidhe exist... or how that would be different in ways that a doctor would notice.

    Honestly... I think its safe to say a doctor would take one look and ask you how you CAN'T tell. That even basic anatomy would show clear differences and a side to side comparison of a human corpse and a Sidhe one would be obvious even to the layman. But as to what those specifics would be? I don't know. And I'm not particularly interested in spending the next two months arguing with the 'genetics and anatomy' experts if I happen to speculate and don't satisfy everyone. It's not like I plan on writing any stories in which a body is being dissected and I have to talk about all the variations from human in order to convince people its an elf.

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    9 years 2 weeks ago #18 by Valentine
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  • Besides you can't do an autopsy on a sidhe, they dissolve into faerie dust when they die.

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    9 years 2 weeks ago #19 by elrodw
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  • Valentine wrote: Besides you can't do an autopsy on a sidhe, they dissolve into faerie dust when they die.


    To clarify, "when they die - thousands of years after whoever wanted to do the autopsy is dead and buried and no-one remembers WHY they'd want to autopsy a Sidhe anyway!" :lol:

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    9 years 2 weeks ago #20 by Ametros
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  • elrodw wrote:

    Valentine wrote: Besides you can't do an autopsy on a sidhe, they dissolve into faerie dust when they die.


    To clarify, "when they die - thousands of years after whoever wanted to do the autopsy is dead and buried and no-one remembers WHY they'd want to autopsy a Sidhe anyway!" :lol:


    In the grim darkness of the far future, it is considered the height of heresy to propose autopsying the God-Empress (or Farseer, if you will).

    Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
    9 years 2 weeks ago #21 by Phoenix Spiritus
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    9 years 2 weeks ago #22 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • I remember that in one story (Christmas Elves, I think), they said that in some ways, high level regenerators are significantly less human than most GSD cases. That's mostly on a cellular level, of course, but I'd imagine the Sidhe as being similarly similar looking, but different (on a organ and cellular level).

    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    9 years 2 weeks ago #23 by Jarjaross
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  • Arcanist Lupus wrote: I remember that in one story (Christmas Elves, I think), they said that in some ways, high level regenerators are significantly less human than most GSD cases. That's mostly on a cellular level, of course, but I'd imagine the Sidhe as being similarly similar looking, but different (on a organ and cellular level).


    All or just Tennyo? Cause there is a whole bit on why FUBAR is more human than Tennyo on a genetic level somewhere.

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    9 years 2 weeks ago #24 by Arcanist Lupus
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  • Christmas Elves wrote: There was perhaps one small detail that Hekate overlooked. Jade was a regenerator. In fact, she was a “regen 5,” which is very, very good as regenerators go. Regenerative cells are different from human cells, and as the ranking increases, the differences increase. On a cellular level, a “regen 7” is as different from a human as something like Fubar, the monster in the basement of Hawthorne cottage, appears different from a baseline human. Fubar appears different on the surface, no matter how human his emotions and soul may be. Conversely a regen-7 might appear to be human on the outside, but you could chop one up, grind them into bits, and they would still regrow and heal with no evident harm (aside from, perhaps, some short-term memory loss). Their cells are very much not human.

    Which is a long way of saying, “Death… well that depends.”

    For a regen-7, it is well accepted that death only comes when every single cell is killed. And then burned.

    Jade was only a regen-5, but assuming that a simple thing like a lack of heartbeat would kill her – well, that would be overlooking a crucial detail.

    Unfortunately for Hekate, Jade had received a ranking of 263 on the student threat assessments that came out after the combat finals. A ranking of 263 was nothing. Nearly powerless. And that placed Jade in the “nobody” category, and thus, well beneath Hekate’s care.

    Which was really too bad for Hekate.


    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
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