Question Devisors and software

Yes, code can be a devise. No devise software does not require special hardware to run... and in fact, the absence of special hardware normally necessary for certain times of software to run is one of the signs of a devisor programmer. However, keep in mind that this is a generalization. No two devisors operate with exactly the same limitations. And, in fact, it is hard to say that any two DEVISES operate with the exact same limitations.

Malady wrote: So, is it possible for a devised program to transcend the limits of normal software, by running without a power source or something, in the absence of devised hardware?

Well... I was going to say yes, but then you put in the specific example of "by running without a power source of something" ...

And... right. This might seem a little esoteric but...

you have to understand that 'programming language/code' is actually a very abstract description of something that has a very broad scope of application. Not every 'program' is written for a personal computer... or something that we even CALL a computer. There is programming code involved in the electronics of your television remote. There is code programmed into your iPod. Some code is dynamic... it is stored in a memory device of some sort and loaded as necessary, takes significantly different actions dependent on its inputs and directives (some of which are built into the hardware, some of which are provided by a user). Some code is static. It is burned into the chip directly before the chip is added into a circuit board.

And while we tend to think of computers as electronic digital devices that function on binary electrical states... you don't need electrical power to have an operating computer. You can use the flow of water, objects moved through the weight of gravity and levers, or many other things which step through a process of instructions or calculations through one means or another in an order determined by their programming. So... yes, absolutely it is possible to 'code' a system that does is not powered electrically. BUT could you make a system which operates on the presence of electrical power and/or magnetism function on instructions without the presence of power? What would that even mean? In a standard personal computer, nothing happens without a change of state of the clock as it cycles from 0V to +5V or from +5V to 0V...Even the absolute simplest instruction - Assign Bit location 1 ON power from 'somewhere' to even mean anything.

So, the answer to your question is "no" you don't need power for a devisor to code something... but if you want that devisor to code a traditional computer? Well, duh. Yes. It would have to be powered for the question to even mean anything.

Also, is it possible for a devised program to be impossible to delete?

No.

Can it be difficult? Yes. But nothing is 'impossible' to delete from a computer. A factory reset of memory and wipe of storage devices will not allow code to remain. Not even the most resilient virus from right now can survive that. The problem being, most people don't want to completely reset everything. So it hides in something that is saved. Or slips off the computer into a network of some sort.

Yes, but its unlikely.

Remember, devisors don't generally fold a piece of metal into a small box and cut a coin sized slot in it and say "done." And play music out of it like a jukebox every time you put in a quarter. They still DESIGN something that makes sense to them, in a scientific way... its just that the laws of physics don't generally work that way... the science is wrong. And through the Devisor's ability, it still works.

So no, a devisor code specialist isn't going write six lines of code which then compiles into the server for a new MMO.

What they ARE going to do is something like... multi-threading the hell out of a program to speed up the results by a factor of eight. Another programmer, when looking at things indicates that its not possible to have these eight threads running simultaneously because three of them require values calculated in other threads... but the devisor will explain to them that he's using a special type of variable, designated as a displaced expression. And in any case where there is multi-threading, a displaced expression stays undefined until its value is pronounced 'static' in another thread and then everything in other threads using it catch up by substituting in the static value.

Stop. Don't try to work out what it will mean. If you ARE a programmer, you'll just hurt yourself.

If you're not, just accept that for programmers... what I've just said is like saying that today we're going to the market. We have apples to sell and what we earn from that depends on whether we sell to early crowds of regulars who want a good deal or the later crowd of 'day tripper' business people who will pay organic local grown prices for everything even if its not the best produce because its more important to them to be shopping at a farmers market than to actually know what produce is a good price. But using your income from selling apples, you also have to shop for supplies for the week... and some of the things you need will be the same price all day, some will sell at different prices like your apples, and other things will only be available during specific times. But you MUST get everything on your list, and within the limit of what you earn selling apples. And... here's the trick where the devisor stuff came in. Do ALL of this, without knowing how many apples you actually have. Once you have bought all the bread you need for the week, we will tell you how many apples you have total.


And things they do... might only compile for the devisor. They might only run once. They might cook off the CPU when run. Just like anything else a devisor creates, the further from the way things work for anyone else... the more likely its going to go wrong somehow.

mhalpern wrote: Does that mean the Mobius bags being so stable for devises may be operating on something very close to actual physics?

It could mean that. The tech that Jade is using, developed by the gadgeteer Handler, is a mass displacement unit. It's not a huge leap from there to matter displacement.

Of course, Mobius could also just be an engineering track student with Warper abilities and his bags are devises at all. But everyone assumes that the result can only be created by breaking the laws of physics, so they assume he has to be a devisor. I bet there's a way to find out...

If a devisor connected a turbine to a generator, the generator to motor, and the motor back to the turbine they could produce a perpetual motion machine (for as long as their power made it 'stable') but only if they thought it should work?

Not much point in something like that. A devisor is far more likely to implement something like a Acoustic Losses Re-Introduction module, that is a devise that involves baffling and piezo-electric microphones in banks around the turbine and generator that use the sound generated by heavy equipment to induce an electrical signal that feeds back to the main power system. The more power the system draws, the louder it generally is... so the ALR doesn't do much at low power... but once the full system is up to speed, its acoustic losses provide a large percentage (if not all) the power of running the system.

The devisor didn't put together existing technology in a way that is scientifically incorrect... they created something to introduce into the system that produces a result that it should not be able to produce. Often, that introduced component is 'themed' in some way. One devisor might build an ALR that is all about tuning forks. One might use crystals. One might require the piezos to function within an ether environment... etc.

Does this mean that the more science a devisor knows and believes to be true the more complex their inventions have to be in order to reach the point where they think it should work?

Nothing preventing a devisor from being an actual engineer/inventor. They'd just have to know how to control/contain their ability to ensure that they didn't have a creative event while working out the details or building something. And yes, if they know more 'real world' science that means it far less likely that their ability will try to substitute ideas for common advances. Of course, if they cannot control it; they might end up with crystal based batteries that cost 100k dollars each instead of being able to use common AA batteries.