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Question Machine based intelligences/intelligence simulator

8 years 10 months ago #1 by Jarjaross
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    • NeoMagus wrote: Just want to politely suggest that the AI/VI discussion be taken to its own thread, rather than cluttering up this one.


    Since neither you nor anyone else is jumping to make the topic I will.

    The difference is simple, an AI can think, problem solve, and learn where as a VI only responds to direct commands, can not do anything it is not programmed to do, and must be programmed with new information.
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    8 years 10 months ago #2 by Bek D Corbin
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    • An illustration for the difference between a Virtual Intelligence and an Artificial Intelligence is illustrated by the Star Wars droids R2D2 and C3PO. They are Virtual Intelligences. When they find themselves stranded on Tantooine, and they're certain that their owner, Captain Antilles, has been taken prisoner by the Stormtroopers, C3PO's response to the problem is to go find someone who'll tell them what to do (R2 already has other orders). An Artificial Intelligence would sit down and try to figure out what to do for itself.
    8 years 10 months ago #3 by Kristin Darken
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    • The lines are a little blurry though. A good VI can and will problem solve. It will also anticipate problems and offer input. The difference being that it has programmed 'triggers' in which it sees certain conditions and reacts based upon them with a pre-designed response. That's where an expert system (the foundation for a VI) really shines. Take, for instance, a doctor or a tech help line. An expert system can easily replace these jobs from the knowledge base perspective (or supplement them) because a significant part of the work is in identifying symptoms/conditions and mapping those to a known problem... and then using the standard means to fixing that problem. But it isn't designed to identify things outside its knowledge base.

    That's why I make it clear that Tavi is not 'just' an expert system. Developing an education/tutoring expert system would not be a simple project anyway... because it would need to be an educational development / child psychology / learning theory based system capable of tapping subject oriented knowledge bases. But its a system designed to work with personal user interfaces. And these are more than simply avatar's for the expert system... they actually provide an interactive evolving personality overlay for how the underlying expert system interacts with its user. Tavi is... what you get when you make a playful, hyperactive representation of a ferret into an expert on learning. Another student in the Philladelphia school district's initiative to implement the tutoring system would get a different resulting tutor... because their overlay would be different... and their overlay would adapt to them.
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    8 years 10 months ago #4 by mhalpern
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    • So in layman's terms an AI has a degree of choice with things outside of its knowledge base and direct purpose, while a VI is an advanced series of if-then statements and case structure, which is what makes Palm programs VI not AI, they can only do what they are programmed to do, however adaptable they are they cannot alter their purpose (excluding Mai but that was still external factors)
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    8 years 10 months ago - 8 years 10 months ago #5 by MageOhki
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    • It is even more blurry, when you consider that the basic personality 'cores' that VI and AI use are effectively the same thing. (Why code twice?)

    AND that they work the same way, desgined in similar ways: Hardware layer, kernel layer, expert program layer, then the personality kernel. Where the real differences come in is the first two. VI's basic kernel isn't designed to 'expand itself' in a way, nor 'learn' non related things directly to it's expert programs (and quite likely to not have the capability to run many expert programs), while it's hardware can't support 'morphic' code. AI's on the other hand, not only do their personalities evolve, not only can they go learn new things, they can self modify their code learning, not just adapt their personalities. The line is fine, but there.

    Easy example; Tavi does NOT like %'s. and avoids them at all cost. Kurenai in a similar situation would 'learn' how to deal with them, move on.

    (it's even more blurry, when you can state Kurenai and her kin, in their first full boot stage, are VI, themselves, but unlike 'true' VI can grow beyond that.)
    Last Edit: 8 years 10 months ago by MageOhki.
    8 years 10 months ago - 8 years 10 months ago #6 by mhalpern
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    • So basically unless you have a situation where you need the program to be able to truly adapt, you can get away with using a VI 99% of the time... even with room for minor adaption short of self modification, based on database information

    Or in other words an AI may look at something differently than it has in the past but a VI will always see it the same way
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    Last Edit: 8 years 10 months ago by mhalpern.
    8 years 10 months ago #7 by MageOhki
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    • With no outside 'reprogramming', yes, mostly. the VI generally will default to last response, or slightly modified. AI's over time will change viewpoints/responses, and do it over a far far wider range. And they're quite capable of modifying their base 'instincts' or choosing to do the opposite, like a scene upcoming, in S3, will show exactly that point.
    8 years 10 months ago #8 by Kristin Darken
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    • Anywhere you need a technician, craftsperson, or soldier; you could use an VI. If you need an engineer, artist, or strategist? You need an AI.

    The more intuition or creativity a project involves, the less likely a VI can do it.
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    8 years 10 months ago #9 by Jarjaross
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: Anywhere you need a technician, craftsperson, or soldier; you could use an VI. If you need an engineer, artist, or strategist? You need an AI.

    The more intuition or creativity a project involves, the less likely a VI can do it.


    To quote my favourite line from EGSNP:

    "Shockingly, the more dynamic variables something has the harder it is to automate."


    A VI could do a good job even at something with a large number of dynamic variables, but the number of variables increase exponentially when you need to problem solve. We don't notice because our minds have built in creative centres to come up with new ways to do stuff.
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    8 years 9 months ago - 8 years 9 months ago #10 by Malady
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    • Hmm... Previously, I was thinking Palms were VIs and AIs 'cause it was said that there isn't just one Palm Prog, there's tons.

    So, there could be a Palm that's an AI, and one that's a VI...

    But that's all just speculation...

    So, "Are all Palms VIs?"

    The title threw me off for a bit, thinking it was about a simulator for machine-based intelligences, instead of about machine-based intelligences and intelligence simulators, as two separate noun phrases.
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    Last Edit: 8 years 9 months ago by Malady.
    8 years 9 months ago #11 by Jarjaross
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    • I didn't have enough characters in the title to even add an 's' let alone set up the idea of 2 different nouns with names that long more clearly.
    My dreams take me to far off lands and times of distant past and future. They tell what has been done, what will happen and who I am. They show me things beyond the machinations of any man. Tell me, what are dreams to you?
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