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Question Font change?

5 years 6 months ago #1 by polyphony
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  • I just poked my head in to check for stories and was surprised to see the entire site in sans-serif font. Is this a deliberate recent change? While I know that most of the evidence regarding serif vs sans-serif is extremely inconclusive, I personally prefer serif fonts and find the stories more difficult to read without them. Perhaps story text, at least, could be changed back?

    (Also, I don't mean to start a giant argument; I can manually change the font on my screen so it's not a huge deal.)
    5 years 6 months ago #2 by Anne
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  • I agree. I manually change fonts. I know a lot of people prefer sanserif, but as a dyslexic, sanserif is very difficult to read. I'll just use the beginning word in this sentence as a perfect example of the difficulty that sanserif presents to someone who has problems sorting out letters. Without that apostrophe, it would be impossible for me to determine that what was intended there was not a picket fence of I's. Or L's for that matter (at least lower case l's)....
    5 years 6 months ago #3 by Kristin Darken
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  • Actually, the font change is relational to another font change. I was asked to implement a cursive / handwriting style for use in some stories and while doing so, thought I'd explore a couple new font options to see how things play out.. I picked this one specifically because it is a font with 17 styles (combination of weights, italics, bold, etc). I wanted to see what advantages in look and options that would provide us... and it really does make a difference in the use of headers and the like.

    As to the difference between serif and sans-serif... we were using a san-serif font before this. So I'm not sure that that side of the discussion is worth playing out. It was a different san-serif. But it was still san-serif.

    I AM open to dyslexic friendly font types... but not enough so to sacrifice having at least three or four different styles. Especially not when there are readily available opensource methods of overriding a browser font with specially designed dyslexia friendly fonts (OpenDyslexia for Chrome, for example)

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    5 years 6 months ago #4 by Anne
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  • Actually now that I've been poking around my FF knockoff (Pale Moon) browser, I can't seem to find a way to change the font... Oh well everyone here knows I'm an incompetent technical nincompoop..... Besides the worlds slowest and possibly worst author.
    5 years 6 months ago #5 by polyphony
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  • Anne, I recommend looking at browser extensions, if it supports FF ones. Most browsers I've used don't have good support.

    Kristin, ah! I think actually that the uniform font across the site is part of what's disorienting. I'm not going to complain too much, because it's far from the end of the world, but I think it might look better if there were 2 or 3 fonts in use to give a little style variation on top of italic/upright, weight, etc..
    5 years 6 months ago #6 by Sir Lee
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  • Pale Moon is... a complicated choice. I looked into it as a way to have an alternate browser which is being maintained bu still supported the old-style Firefox extensions -- DownThemAll in particular. Since it is a fork of an older Firefox, it seemed a good bet.

    Except it does not work that well. It's not a recent fork of Firefox, and they decided to fork not only the browser UI but also the browser engine quite a while ago. Which means that Firefox extensions that worked, say, in FF 50 might not work in Pale Moon. DTA becomes all sorts of weird in Pale Moon. It works -- sort of -- but not well.

    I still have my old install of Seamonkey in the computer -- I keep it updated when there's a new release (not often nowadays), but don't use it very often nowadays. But DTA v.2.x works fairly well in Seamonkey. Alternatively, I have a PortableApps version of Firefox 52 Legacy with DTA 3.x. There's the minor annoyance of having to close my main Firefox before opening the 52 Legacy, but that's what I do when I have a big download task (such as archive-bingeing on a webcomic).

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    5 years 6 months ago #7 by Kristin Darken
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  • polyphony wrote: Kristin, ah! I think actually that the uniform font across the site is part of what's disorienting. I'm not going to complain too much,


    Not to be contentious but... again... that didn't change. All I did was swap one sans-serif font to a different one. THIS sans-serif has more styles in its design, so changing the header level isn't just a matter of changing the font size as it is with some fonts. But we went from using a single sans-serif font with a moderate number of styles, to another single sans-serif font with a larger number (almost double) of styles. I don't want to offend anyone but, if you don't like the font... just admit you don't like it. Don't try to rationalize it or give me statistics as to why this type is better for certain cases or whatever.... if enough people don't like the font, I'll change it. Ideally to another large style option... and I'll be drawing from Google Fonts, so, if you are advocating change... do yourself a favor and offer suggestions instead of just shooting down options.

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    5 years 6 months ago #8 by Anne
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  • I wish I had suggestions for you, 'cause as stated, I don't like sanserif fonts. Years ago I started with Times New Roman and haven't done much exploring of fonts beyond that. As a dyslexic most fonts aren't artistic to me, they are confusing. I've used Cloister (but recommend against anything with that much twiddly bits) and a couple of Roman derivatives but most of them are limited in 'styles' so I don't have a recommendation, just wish it were a bit easier for me to change my display fonts at this end...
    5 years 6 months ago #9 by Kettlekorn
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  • Worst case, you should be able to use a browser extension to override the page's CSS. In Firefox, a popular option is Stylish; it looks like the Pale Moon equivalent is Stylem. The CSS you'll want to set is probably going to be something like this:
    * { font-family: serif !important; }

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    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #10 by Sir Lee
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  • I'm no dyslexic (if anything, I'm hyperlexic -- I'm a compulsive reader), but I do prefer serif fonts for body text.

    There's research claiming that, at least on print, serif fonts are easier to read because all the serifs together create a sort of "ruled paper" effect, making it easier to keep your eyes on the correct line.

    On the other hand, some people claim that on regular-resolution (72-96 dpi or thereabouts) displays, serif fonts end up being a bit blurry, because the serifs are smaller than one pixel. I haven't seen research regarding serif fonts on high-resolution ("Retina") LCDs, but one would expect it to be more similar to the results on paper.

    Anyway, there ARE serif fonts optimized for screen display, which minimize the "blurriness" thing. Georgia (which comes with Windows) is one such font. I find it rather pleasant to read. Merriweather (from Adobe Typekit), Playfair Display (Google Fonts) and Alegreya (Google Fonts) might work too.

    (For that matter, Verdana is a sans-serif font also optimized for displays, and it does offer good legibility, but I personally find it rather ugly)

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #11 by Valentine
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  • I believe that I exist in an ultra minority. I prefer monospaced sanserif fonts.

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    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #12 by Kristin Darken
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  • Personal opinon, not backed by any statistical data, is that most people that have issues with fonts are simply running their screen resolution too refined for clear display and/or their eyes. Hit CNTL + (that's holding down the control key, and tapping the PLUS key) a couple times until things read easier for you. *I* don't have dylexia, read very quickly, and even I can have issues with fonts on my default screen resolution (what I want it to be for graphics in games and apps). And that's with a gaming graphics card and a 1900x1080 px display.Yes, I can cram a lot of information into one on-screen browser window. But that doesn't mean I can sit back in my desk chair and read it easily. Navigate yes. Read the stories? Depends (mainly on how much narrative vs dialogue there is). But even 1 zoom in and all that blue clears up.

    I don't want to have to scroll for days to find things for navigation though. So I don't do this full time. Just when my eyes are tired and I need the bump up for active reading reasons... because clearly, zooming messes with site layout.


    As a side note, I only see two serifs with a high number of styles: Taviraj and Trirong.

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    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Kristin Darken.
    5 years 6 months ago #13 by Anne
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  • I'm using a 24" monitor, have been tempted (if I was working steadily and not living in a pumice block apt...) to go to something in the 30+ range. Why? larger type... For some reason I do best at the range my monitor is. And I still say that it is very hard to separate a capitol I from a lower case l when using a sanserif font. And really that is the point where I'm at at this point. Most other letters have what I'd call clues that help me, and the ell in context is easy enough to tell from an I in context after all I'm writing this from my keyboard and doing fairly well at knowing which one I intend...
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #14 by Kristin Darken
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  • Font opinions? This is a serif. There IS a sanserif and a handwritten font loaded, so in theory people can use any one of the three if you know how to declare a font

    Options would be

    - the default is a serif named Spectral:
    <p>A quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. </p>

    - for a Sanserif, you have Fira Sans:
    <p style="font-family: Fira Sans">A quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.</p>

    - for handwritten/cursive, we have Charmonman:
    <p style="font-family: Charmonman">A quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.</p>


    Uh... note for style overrides - this is for story creation, not forums, btw. :) And generally, you want to leave style choices out of your stories, so we have the ability to keep stories up to date with the rest of the site's style without having to manually alter individual stories. Any imposed style should be for specific purpose 'relative' to the base style (using a color variation, indenting, or font variants... should be special case, not your default). An example would be when Kayda dreamwalks. We have a special style class (dream) that italisizes and constrains text left and right to standardize what 'dreams' look like in stories. Using a specific font, variant or so on for something like telepathy might also be a good reason.

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    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Kristin Darken.
    5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #15 by Sir Lee
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  • [post removed, redundant]

    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 5 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    5 years 6 months ago #16 by Katssun
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  • Is the lettering of the serif font for site navigation and stories objectively thinner than the sanserif font of the forums?

    I find the site substantially harder to read right now. Even when you zoom to increase the font size.
    5 years 6 months ago #17 by Anne
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  • I'm getting an interesting effect right now. The headlines (that is the titles of the posts and all of the links and whatnot on the page) are appearing in a nice serif style font, while the body of posts (I haven't checked stories) appears in a sanserif style of font... Anyway, thanks for all the work you do Kristin
    5 years 6 months ago #18 by Kristin Darken
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  • Hmm... ya, the forums styles were overriding the site wide styles. I've synchronized these for the moment, though that may turn into a nuissance thing on patch days. We'll see.

    And if the default weight for the font is a little light for most eyes, maybe I'll try forcing it to use the next higher weight as the default. Should be doable, from what I've been working out with font stuff...

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