Question Upgrade on hardware
- Kristin Darken
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Topic Author
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Arcanist Lupus
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"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
- Phoenix Spiritus
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- Kristin Darken
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Topic Author
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Kristin Darken
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Topic Author
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Phoenix Spiritus
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- NJM1564
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- Kristin Darken
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Topic Author
We get to like $2k a month and I'll quit my job and work full time on the site and writing stories for Whateley.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Valentine
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Don't Drick and Drive.
- Dreamer
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Ooo, I could donate $5-10 a month.Kristin Darken wrote: Well, we've talked in the past that that was one of the possibilities of setting up a donations system... that one of the 'low tiers' of donation would be ad-less viewing of the site. ie first patreon goal and reward - goal $150/mo in donations, we implement an ad-free access to the site. reward, anyone donating $3/mo or more to that purpose benefits.
We get to like $2k a month and I'll quit my job and work full time on the site and writing stories for Whateley.
Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked.

- Iwasforger03
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I am a Sexy Shoeless God of War - So suck it CP!
Dice/Hollow#1
Dice/HollowDiscuss
- Wavehead
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Wildbow updates his current story twice a week and provides 2-3 bonus chapters a month when certain monetary targets are met.
I will happily donate $5 every month and I'm certain many more folks would do the same.
Honestly I just can't understand why you guys haven't set something up already.
- Phoenix Spiritus
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/shrug
- Kristin Darken
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Topic Author
I mean... if I'm taking donations for just maintaining the site, that's technically 'whateley universe' income. But we're not incorporated or set up as a non-profit organization... so it means any money that comes in to me... is counted as 'my' income. And I pay taxes on it. Like the ad revenue. And it technically counts as self-employment as well (so, higher taxes). So really, what we get from ads doesn't even all go to me or the site... it goes into making my taxes higher.
Given the existing number balance... what we get from ads - taxes I pay on it leaves Fortunately, I work for a non-profit theatre and don't make a lot and the amount we bring in doesn't push me into a higher bracket so its only 15% for income tax. Unfortunately, that's where the self-employment thing comes into play and anything reported with a 1099 like this adds an additional 15.4% for SS and Medicare (normally your employer pays half of that)... thus taxing it at 30.4%.
So... for example. We have a weak month on visitors / ad revenue... making only about $3.50 / day. At $105, we lose $31.92 to the government and $73.08 finds its way into my bank account (well, technically the full 105 does, I have to manually set aside the part of the taxman or he mugs me in April). Then Google says, hey your server has used this many resources this month... that'll be... $71. Mostly, its between 71-73. So... on a low activity month, ads are just barely paying the bills. On a 'records high month' like this one? It's looking like the total is going to run around $175. That'll be about $122 after taxes, which gives me $50 to tap for improvements and misc costs. Like the $60/yr for the domains, a bit here or there for extensions/software. Even on the best months though right now, anything more than a couple hours at minimum wage is technically donated to the site.
But... if I start taking actual donations for the site... where is the line? If we are bringing in $1000 per month for the site? If so, do 'we' consider paying an accountant to do Kristin's taxes as a fair expense coming out of that as well as a fee to compensate me for pushing my tax bracket up? What are 'fair' charges to the site's money and what aren't? Obviously server fees are good. domain purchases good unless we start buying up obscure combinations of our keywords or paying hundreds/thousands to get the crystalhall.org domain back. do we get upgrades on the site because the money in is > than the fees out? Or does that money sit somewhere and accumulate? Does Kristin get a fee for hours spent on the site? Do the writers get a fee for words published? Editors? Do we put money into advertising or art?
Maybe I'm overthinking it... BUT be aware that its not a new idea and I HAVE thought about it a bit, because it would be nice to have my personal finances separate from maintaining the site. It will make the site/community more self-sustaining and transferable to another publisher/administrator should something happen to me. It's also not an easy road to walk down though if you aren't financially in the position to just casually have your people set up a new non-profit organization for you.
More than likely, if I DO set up a patreon publicly in the near future, it will be my personal one... for support of moving my career away from high hours/low pay theatre work into focusing more on my writing and other creative ventures. That would, of course, mean more time to support the site and community, but it would be 'me' that people would be supporting not directly the site. I think.
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- elrodw
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Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
- Wavehead
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I'm thinking that with the quality and quantity of work you guys are all turning out it would take about a two years to build up to an income of around $2-3K a month, I'm basing this on what the authors in the top ten on topwebfiction are managing. Wildbow and Mooderino whose Stories are consistently in the top ten are certainly managing this and they all started very small with little expectation of success.
- Kristin Darken
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Topic Author
I just don't want to give anyone a reason to think I'm cheating them out of anything.
We just need to get the Patreon account to like 5-6$K per month and I'll shift to working full time as the chief universe admin/editor/producer and I'll take a full time salary, maintain the system costs and pay authors a stipend for contributions.
I'd have to move someplace cheaper to live than California, so the authors would get a bigger chunk of the money... but its feasible.

Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Katssun
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- E M Pisek
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1. How much would one ask for? 1-3 $?
2. What if readers flock to just one particular writer or not able to contribute to others? This unfortunately could lead to hard feelings.
3. What would the extra income do to those writing? What of their being anonymous and then have to suddenly file the extra income?
Then there is the idea of donating those funds to help fray the cost of the site itself for needed upgrades/services and so forth.
There are, I'm sure, other factors that I haven't touch that would need to be taken into consideration. Joint story writing and so forth. I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud and I"m sure Kristin has also thought of this, but overall being such a diverse group as this it incorporates several unknowns and hampers other ways.
Now don't take me wrong, I'd love to help out and if I could win the lottery I would, but that's not likely to happen. My point being that there really is no easy solution. Someones going to have to be the point man (person) in many cases, for your site is like a business in many cases.
You provide us with a service of giving us your stories as with putting in a lot of time and effort to do so. Yes you say its a pleasure to write, but it does take your time away from other endeavors so you are giving that service to us and in most cases its for free as you pay for a site like this in giving it.
Kristin I really have to applaud you in what your doing. Not just for the love of it, but for keeping it all together as with all the other writers who selflessly contribute.
And that includes you to Warren. You've done a lot to keep this site safe.
What is - was. What was - is.
- Ametros
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Ib12us wrote: 2. What if readers flock to just one particular writer or not able to contribute to others? This unfortunately could lead to hard feelings.
This is a concern I definitely share. That said though, I personally would be in favour of supporting an individual Patreon for Kristin so as to support the administration of the site, and then later (if it happens) a more general Patreon for Whateley as a whole.
And with that, thank you again Kristin for all the time spent on this platform so that we may savour the fruits of the writers and community.
Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
- Erisian
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That said, I'd suggest considering registering a LLC (Limited Liability Company) to use for the site, with its own company bank account - so all income from ads or Patreon go to it. As the owner, you can pay yourself whatever you want, or keep all the money in the LLC's account for reserve and to pay any bills / expenses the site has.
This would preserve your own tax bracket, which would only go up based on what you withdrew for yourself personally, and not for money spent on the site - or even distributed to authors should it ever earn enough to warrant some kind of scheme for that.
Only drawback is having to do taxes separately for the LLC in addition to your own - though if the site earns a few hundred a year a tax accountant could potentially be hired to do it. (And from what I've seen, I think Turbo Tax can take care of straightforward LLC stuffs.) A benefit, though, is gaining some legal protection and separability for yourself from any possible future legal craziness.
There are probably good guides out on the internet for how to do this that can explain a lot better than I can the pros n cons.

Author of Into the Light, Light's Promise, and Call of the Light
(starts with Into The Light )
- fturtle
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- Mister D
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The workshop i am a member of uses this as a way of us being able to share ownership of the equipment, in a way that stops any individual ripping off anyone else. https://london.hackspace.org.uk/
The people who set up the legal shell, then set up a templated system that could be used to create other legal structures. It also allows all of the organisation to be done online, http://www.oneclickorgs.com/
The OneClickOrganisations website, also has templates for Co-operatives, and Unincorporated Associations, as well as a legally-valid-in-the-UK way of doing all of the Organisation and Administration online, including filing of all of the documentation.
Whether this would be appropriate for this site, is another question entirely, as most of the people involved are USA-based, but i 'd be willing to do some of the legwork to set this up, if it means that we get to continue reading stories set in the WU..
Measure Twice
- Kristin Darken
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Topic Author
Fate guard you and grant you a Light to brighten your Way.
- Mister D
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Kristin Darken wrote: I appreciate the offer, but it would have to be a US based organization for practical reasons (ie for me to legally administrate it).
NP.
I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences about how this sort of admin works in the USA, rather than the UK.
I've also been looking up the details of how E-Citizenship works in Estonia, https://e-resident.gov.ee/ .
Measure Twice
- Erisian
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Reasons For Startup Not To Be An LLC
But as you aren't selling product and don't need to worry about sales tax (I think), it's still a tricky question.
So I found this google book that goes way into the topic that while lengthy, might be very useful to read and give insight on the best way to manage it all.

Book on LLC vs Corp
Author of Into the Light, Light's Promise, and Call of the Light
(starts with Into The Light )