Question I know how Elrod feels like now...

Sorry I haven't been online since my rather inappropriate comment about Kristin's story (apologies for that by the way- It was rude and unpleasant). The following day, I came back to my apartment at Central Park to find the builder me and my flatmate had hired to fix the air conditioning had set my home on fire. The fire department told me that the automatic fire suppression systems were offline for maintenance, and had to be manually reinitiated by the building maintenance guys. It was pure luck that no one else's apartments were damaged...but my one???

- Severe heat damage to the walls, floor and possibly the electrical wiring and the aforementioned air con.

- over $7000 dollars of damage to computer equipment (mostly insured thankfully).

-Pretty much every piece of furniture needs to be completely replaced, barring the majority of the built-in stuff

- A additional $20,000 dollars of damage to artwork that my flatmate (who is a professional painter, with works that she sells for around $2000 apiece) cannot get back (as they were not insured)

- Countless personal possessions were destroyed, including a signed copy of Isaac Asimov's 'I, Robot' anthology that I inherited from my grandfather, worth over $600.

- Fire damage to the dishwasher, the washing machine, the fridge...pretty much everything that was exposed and wasn't built to stand a fire.

- The Central Park management is pressing to have a building inspector in to check that the fire (which was going for over two hours before maintenance managed to activate the suppression system) didn't damage the structure of the building (you can see right through the walls to the bare bones of the building. It melted in places where it was hot enough. It's a fucking miracle that no one else's apartments were damaged, but they still have to check for safety reasons).

- The windows were cracked by the heat of the blaze, meaning that they're going to have to get in a crane to repair the glass and replace it. I live on the 16th story of a glass-fronted apartment building. That's a long way up if you want to replace a entire window.

While all this isn't as bad as Elrod's situation, I'm beginning to see where he is coming from. Damm, this is a shitton of work. Although most things were insured, there is going to be a LOT of loans to get even some of it replaced. I'm taking time off from uni to get everything sorted, but it's going to be at least a year before I can move back into my flat. Right now, I'm crashing at my parent's place, but they don't have the room to house me for a year. I'm sleeping on a couch in the living room, and living out of whatever stuff I had in my work bag when I was at lectures. Thankfully, that included this laptop I'm typing this on.

But, despite this, I'm quite lucky. It could have been far worse. I would have taken some pictures for you all of the massive holes in the walls and the melted beams. Unfortunately, both my camera, my phone and my tablet were all on the kitchen table, and were exposed to temperatures high enough to cause steel to melt. So, yeah...I'm fucked.

That "builder" or his insurance company should be hand delivering you a check for damages.

CrazyMinh wrote: Sorry I haven't been online since my rather inappropriate comment about Kristin's story (apologies for that by the way- It was rude and unpleasant). The following day, I came back to my apartment at Central Park to find the builder me and my flatmate had hired to fix the air conditioning had set my home on fire. The fire department told me that the automatic fire suppression systems were offline for maintenance, and had to be manually reinitiated by the building maintenance guys. It was pure luck that no one else's apartments were damaged...but my one???.

At least your shoulder's healed up, right?

HVAC isn't my thing, but I'm having a lot of trouble picturing any common sort of repair that could lead to a fire afterward that doesn't involve massive amounts of negligence (using marginal old parts as replacements, bypassing fuses, f-d up wiring in general, leaving a splif burning on the carpet, etc.) Document everything, and take a second or third look for missing items.

Then again, I'm assuming that this isn't the same Central Park that got a writeup in The Daily Telegraph for prostitution and dodgy electrics. There could be plenty of blame to pass around.

That sucks. I'm glad nobody was hurt.

That sucks a hurricane through a drinking straw Minh. I hope the local fire brigade is investigating the possibility of arson? Also are there things missing? Was the fire set to cover burglary? Okay I'm cynical, but I agree, I can't think of any reason that an AC repair should have resulted in a fire.

Ok, I can see some confusion over the builder. Basically, he was smoking, dropped a but on hit WOODEN STEPLADDER, which set fire to a bottle of cleaning fluid, which set fire to the wooden floor the previous owners put in...basically, the builder got out unharmed, and I would sue for negligence, but 1. I don't have the moolah to pay for legal fees and 2. I don't have the time while dealing with insurance claims. A shitton of insurance claims.

CrazyMinh wrote: Ok, I can see some confusion over the builder. Basically, he was smoking, dropped a but on hit WOODEN STEPLADDER, which set fire to a bottle of cleaning fluid, which set fire to the wooden floor the previous owners put in...basically, the builder got out unharmed, and I would sue for negligence, but 1. I don't have the moolah to pay for legal fees and 2. I don't have the time while dealing with insurance claims. A shitton of insurance claims.

Ohh don't worry he or they are getting sued

the insurance will see to that!

but you should get an attorney that only takes money if there is a settlement...so you might get something?? better than nothing!

Minh is in Oz I don't know how their tort system works. Not quite like the US tort system works if I recall correctly. Here yeah he could go to any ambulance chaser almost and probably get a good deal... Well the liar would get a good deal. Whether it would be good for Minh? That is a different question!!

null0trooper wrote: Then again, I'm assuming that this isn't the same Central Park that got a writeup in The Daily Telegraph for prostitution and dodgy electrics. There could be plenty of blame to pass around.

Yes, that very central park. Only reason I was able to afford a apartment there was that it was the one I spent my teenage years in, and my parents were renting it to me while I attend Sydney Uni down the road. They're living somewhere in the suburbs now...and so am I. Until the goddam apartment gets liveable again.

As for the builder and negligence, he's being sued by the management for the damages. As he did not only damage the interior of the apartment, but (as I've been told by the inspector who came to the apartment this morning), he's caused damage to the superstructure of the building. Luckily, it's fixable in such a way that the building will not be coming down around its inhabitant's heads, but the process will cost at least $50,000, as they have to replace a large chunk of interior support structure EMBEDDED IN CONCRETE!!! It's going to shorten my homelessness by about 3 months, but at least I have my parents to fall back on. My flatmate??? She's from China. She hs no support netwrok here to fall back on. She's crashing at a nearby studentlodge until we can move back in. I offered to let her crash at my parent's house...but my dad said no. PARENTS!!! Urgh!!!

CrazyMinh wrote:

null0trooper wrote: Then again, I'm assuming that this isn't the same Central Park that got a writeup in The Daily Telegraph for prostitution and dodgy electrics. There could be plenty of blame to pass around.

Yes, that very central park. Only reason I was able to afford a apartment there was that it was the one I spent my teenage years in, and my parents were renting it to me while I attend Sydney Uni down the road. They're living somewhere in the suburbs now...and so am I. Until the goddam apartment gets liveable again.

As for the builder and negligence, he's being sued by the management for the damages. As he did not only damage the interior of the apartment, but (as I've been told by the inspector who came to the apartment this morning), he's caused damage to the superstructure of the building. Luckily, it's fixable in such a way that the building will not be coming down around its inhabitant's heads, but the process will cost at least $50,000, as they have to replace a large chunk of interior support structure EMBEDDED IN CONCRETE!!! It's going to shorten my homelessness by about 3 months, but at least I have my parents to fall back on. My flatmate??? She's from China. She hs no support netwrok here to fall back on. She's crashing at a nearby studentlodge until we can move back in. I offered to let her crash at my parent's house...but my dad said no. PARENTS!!! Urgh!!!

Talk to the management about adding your and your flatmates damages to his lawsuit.

But don't ignore your losses even if takes some time, better to get you money back eventually than never.

I'm suspecting that your flat mate should sue for loss of income. And a big pile of it! The pot might be big enough to entice a personal injury lawyer (or whatever a barrister who specializes in that sort of law is called in your neck of the woods) to take a look without you or her putting down a lot of cash.
Shesh! Parents! Help me help my friend. Oh you're worried we'll be making the two backed beast under your roof? And it was less objectionable when it was elsewhere or will be elsewhere if that was the way the ball was bouncing!?

Well, it's not like we know how much space his parents have, what kinds of personalities they and the flatmate have, whether there are any health or mental issues involved, etc. It's entirely possible that letting her stay with them would put more strain on them than what she's experiencing staying at the student lodge, or that there's some other reasonable objection at play.

I can tell you that I'm sleeping on the couch at my parents house. That should be a indication of how much space is there.

Well, I've got 80% of the paperwork done. I've still got to call up Central Park and arrange for the glaziers to be payed for by them. They legally own the exterior of the building I'm in, so they're paying. Unfortunately, their accounting department sent me the bill. I've hired a lawyer to prosecute the builder, and he's currently building a case. Apparently the builder is claiming that I didn't inform him my house was a no-smoking area. Dude, use common sense: you ASK whether you can smoke in someone else's house. My roommate is fine, although she's pissed that she's lost a year's backlog of commissions. She's also suing the builder for damages. The builder is surprisingly wealhy for someone who works as a AC repairman. Either than, or they inherited a lot of money from somewhere/won the lottery/etc. He's certainly managed to hire what my lawyer calls a 'top notch defence lawyer' to defend himself. I'm sorry if that was innacurately worded: I'm just quoting my lawyer. He's a nice guy from a reputable company. After losing my apartment and 10 years of memories to flames, I'm quite cautious about hiring less-than-reputable people to do stuff for me. In other news, I'm thinking of starting a crowdfunding page to help fund my repurchasing of items that weren't insured. Things like my new iPhone 6 (reconditioned (so no warranty) and uninsured), my PS4 Pro (which ironically was in the process of being insured when the fire broke out), and a few other things. With the permission of Kristin, I'd like to post a link to the paetron page I hope to make on this site. That is, I'd like to add a link where kind people who'd be willing to donate a small sum of money to a person with a burned-out apartment could perform said donation. I'm aware that I'm not exactly a fully trusted member of this community. So I won't post the link if it would be inappropriate or unacceptable to ask people to donate money to a person they barely know, who is most likely living on another continent and whose face they've never even seen. Which is why I'll remind you that this is true of everyone on Kickstarter or Paetron. . I'm asking permission first, unlike that f**king builder. Sorry, won't do that again. Trying to swear off bad language.

CrazyMinh wrote: Well, I've got 80% of the paperwork done. I've still got to call up Central Park and arrange for the glaziers to be payed for by them. They legally own the exterior of the building I'm in, so they're paying. Unfortunately, their accounting department sent me the bill. I've hired a lawyer to prosecute the builder, and he's currently building a case. Apparently the builder is claiming that I didn't inform him my house was a no-smoking area. Dude, use common sense: you ASK whether you can smoke in someone else's house. My roommate is fine, although she's pissed that she's lost a year's backlog of commissions. She's also suing the builder for damages. The builder is surprisingly wealhy for someone who works as a AC repairman. Either than, or they inherited a lot of money from somewhere/won the lottery/etc. He's certainly managed to hire what my lawyer calls a 'top notch defence lawyer' to defend himself. I'm sorry if that was innacurately worded: I'm just quoting my lawyer. He's a nice guy from a reputable company. After losing my apartment and 10 years of memories to flames, I'm quite cautious about hiring less-than-reputable people to do stuff for me. In other news, I'm thinking of starting a crowdfunding page to help fund my repurchasing of items that weren't insured. Things like my new iPhone 6 (reconditioned (so no warranty) and uninsured), my PS4 Pro (which ironically was in the process of being insured when the fire broke out), and a few other things. With the permission of Kristin, I'd like to post a link to the paetron page I hope to make on this site. That is, I'd like to add a link where kind people who'd be willing to donate a small sum of money to a person with a burned-out apartment could perform said donation. I'm aware that I'm not exactly a fully trusted member of this community. So I won't post the link if it would be inappropriate or unacceptable to ask people to donate money to a person they barely know, who is most likely living on another continent and whose face they've never even seen. Which is why I'll remind you that this is true of everyone on Kickstarter or Paetron. . I'm asking permission first, unlike that f**king builder. Sorry, won't do that again. Trying to swear off bad language.

It shouldn't matter whether or not he could smoke. His negligence started the fire, unless you had open buckets of gasoline sitting around.

No it absolutely should not matter if the builder or laborer (they were the same or not?) was told he could not smoke in the flat. Simple courtesy would say that you don't do that. Depending on the medium the artist was working in their work could be highly flammable and the various paints, brushes, solvents the equivalent of having open containers of fuel around. Especially the solvents as that would be the thing most likely to be open and out at all times.
Contracting is work that pays rather well. AC especially so!

Valentine wrote:

CrazyMinh wrote: Well, I've got 80% of the paperwork done. I've still got to call up Central Park and arrange for the glaziers to be payed for by them. They legally own the exterior of the building I'm in, so they're paying. Unfortunately, their accounting department sent me the bill. I've hired a lawyer to prosecute the builder, and he's currently building a case. Apparently the builder is claiming that I didn't inform him my house was a no-smoking area. Dude, use common sense: you ASK whether you can smoke in someone else's house. My roommate is fine, although she's pissed that she's lost a year's backlog of commissions. She's also suing the builder for damages. The builder is surprisingly wealhy for someone who works as a AC repairman. Either than, or they inherited a lot of money from somewhere/won the lottery/etc. He's certainly managed to hire what my lawyer calls a 'top notch defence lawyer' to defend himself. I'm sorry if that was innacurately worded: I'm just quoting my lawyer. He's a nice guy from a reputable company. After losing my apartment and 10 years of memories to flames, I'm quite cautious about hiring less-than-reputable people to do stuff for me. In other news, I'm thinking of starting a crowdfunding page to help fund my repurchasing of items that weren't insured. Things like my new iPhone 6 (reconditioned (so no warranty) and uninsured), my PS4 Pro (which ironically was in the process of being insured when the fire broke out), and a few other things. With the permission of Kristin, I'd like to post a link to the paetron page I hope to make on this site. That is, I'd like to add a link where kind people who'd be willing to donate a small sum of money to a person with a burned-out apartment could perform said donation. I'm aware that I'm not exactly a fully trusted member of this community. So I won't post the link if it would be inappropriate or unacceptable to ask people to donate money to a person they barely know, who is most likely living on another continent and whose face they've never even seen. Which is why I'll remind you that this is true of everyone on Kickstarter or Paetron. . I'm asking permission first, unlike that f**king builder. Sorry, won't do that again. Trying to swear off bad language.

It shouldn't matter whether or not he could smoke. His negligence started the fire, unless you had open buckets of gasoline sitting around.

Even in the case of "open buckets of gasoline"

it's still his fault= if there was that kind of danger =then stop all work till the danger is mediated

But thank God he admitted to smoking...any jury these days might hang him for JUST smoking...let alone the fire....lol!!!!!!!!!!

You may be surprised, but jury trials are far rarer outside the U.S. I don't know the specifics of Australian law, but I bet that the chances of this going to a jury trial are between slim and none.

Yeah, getting devastation like that in your home or apartment is very tough. Especially if the rebuilding takes a long time.
We're underway, and lucky - only 9 1/2 months since the flood. Contractors to repair are very hard to come by, because in one flood, more homes were damaged than have been built in the last 25 years!

The way things are working, you SHOULD come out on top since the legal system is essentially British common law. But if lawyers are involved, there is only one sure thing - both lawyers win.

elrodw wrote: Yeah, getting devastation like that in your home or apartment is very tough. Especially if the rebuilding takes a long time.
We're underway, and lucky - only 9 1/2 months since the flood. Contractors to repair are very hard to come by, because in one flood, more homes were damaged than have been built in the last 25 years!

The way things are working, you SHOULD come out on top since the legal system is essentially British common law. But if lawyers are involved, there is only one sure thing - both lawyers win.

Unfortunately true. Indeed it can be said, not even a little bit tongue in cheek that the lawyers may be the only ones who win!

Sir Lee wrote: You may be surprised, but jury trials are far rarer outside the U.S. I don't know the specifics of Australian law, but I bet that the chances of this going to a jury trial are between slim and none.

Things really only go to court if it becomes a big thing. So far, it hasn't gotten that big, but central park management is PISSED!!! They've told me that they're taking the guy to court, as apparently they're going to have to pull out a three meter piece of girder, which will mean that the people on the floors directly above and below my apartment will have to temporarily vacate their units so that they can fix it. I have no idea how they're going to do it, considering it's a part of the superstructure. Remember, I have a degree in mechatronic engineering, not civil engineering. I haven't even finished my masters yet. Anyway, because they're going to be paying over $2000 for the work, and it'll add a extra three weeks onto the minimum time until I can move back into my apartment, they're suing him for damages, me and my flatmate are suing for lost income (flatmate) and negligence resulting in arson (me), and apparently one of the units below us is suing for heat damage, though that's still being sorted, and I think they're just trying to jump on the legal boat before it leaves dock.

Spent today powering through the insurance paperwork, and managed to get all of it done and submitted. I should get it approved within 8-11 business days, depending on the amount submitted. I'm going to wager (no bets) it will take at least 11 before the company will get back to me. Tomorrow I'm meeting up with my flatmate to help her with her insurance claims. She thankfully had every single device she owned insured...but apparently with a Chinese insurance company. In china. So, I hope my high school Chinese classes will help with the language barrier. Though admittedly, I'm flipping terrible at speaking anything but English. One time, I accidentally said something extremely funny during a exam. I was meant to say 'Hello!!! Have you seen the post office' for the speaking section. Instead, I said 'Hi!!! Have you slept with the postman???'. Repeated attempts resulted in 'Hi!!! Will you sleep with the postman' and 'Hi!!! I'm a sexy postman!!!'. Those attempts proved beyond measure that I will never be able to speak Chinese. Apparently. I wasn't even mispronoucning the words. The words for 'post office' and the word for 'postman' sound very different. As do those for 'Sex' 'Seen' and 'Sleep' . At the time, I just didn't know why my teacher was corpsing on the floor. Later, I learned why, when I said a simular thing in class and everyone laughed at me. God, that was nearly 10 years ago now!!! Damm, it's been a long time.

Anyway, I'm mainly going to be providing morale support, and little else. Anyway, I'd like to ask Kristin whether I can put a paetron link on this thread. I've nearly got the page set up, and I'm going to post the link once it's done, and if I get permission. Kristin, may I please put my paetron link on this thread once it's finished???

Kristin Darken wrote: You can... but I don't recommend Patreon for this sort of situation. It's designed for long term small donation subscription support. I'd recommend looking more at setting up a GoFundMe account.

Thanks. I'll look into that. :thumbsup (there wasn't a thumbs up emoji, so this will have to do for now)

Allright!! The builder issue has been settled, and central park has begun repairing the damage to my apartment and the building. We're going to get a crane in sometime within the next two weeks to begin replacing the exterior window. Unfortunately, the damaged glass allowed water to get into the apartment, causing damage to the building's electrics. There were surge protectors, but the power to the upper floors is currently knocked out. They've told me that I'm not going to be billed. I'm not sure how the builder is going to pay for the damages though. I ran some numbers (being the amazing mechatronic engineer that I am (and therefore equipped with some pretty good maths skills- algebra being the primary focus of my studies in the 1st semester I did of my course a few years ago)), and if I've got the prices on the amount of steel for replacing the damaged superstructure, the price of glass to replace the cracked window, the average wage of a professional electrician to repair the building's shorted electrics, and the average day-to-day cost of a crane to repair the window and hoist the superstructure replacements (apparently the metal is too big for the lift to handle- no shocker there)...you're looking at something in the tens of thousands of dollars...perhaps the hundreds of thousands. I'm not too sure on the exact prices, all I did was look up the average price of each material per individual unit of measurement (e.g. kilograms of steel, square inches of glass, day-to-day cost of a construction crane)...and then got a range from the highest price to the lowest. It gives a result somewhere between $45000 and $750000 Australian. I'm not sure what that is in US dollars...hang on, I'll check...

[uses extreme google-fu skills]

Ah, the price is between $33188.17 and $553136.10 US dollars. Holy Spock!!! That's a lot of money...yes, I just did say 'Holy Spock'. Deal with it.

Anyway, repairs are going to take a LOONG time...between 12 months and 24 months, assuming the repairs don't run behind schedule (which they probably will). I may not be paying for repairs, but the furniture and possessions which were slagged...I had a signed copy of Isaac Asimov's 'I, robot' story collection that I received as a present. They were probably irreplaceable, and worth a whole lot of money today (considering the fact that the man was a) a genius and b) a celebrated writer who died before the start of the previous decade). I had my entire library of sci fi and fantasy books, many of which I had owned since I was in high school- and some before then. I had my violin, which I have had and continued to play since high school. I had my PC, my PS4, my phone. Hell, my first pet's ashes were incinerated even more that they were before.

Despite this, I'm lucky that I've even got the laptop I'm writing this on. I'm lucky my dog was being walked by my flatmate when the fire broke out, and that he wasn't killed in the fire. Also, my flatmate. But mainly my dog. I'm luckyI wasn't in the flat when the fire broke out.

Still, I've investigated Go Fund Me, and I'll attempt setting up a account sometime soon.

CrazyMinh wrote: Ah, the price is between $33188.17 and $553136.10 US dollars. Holy Spock!!! That's a lot of money...yes, I just did say 'Holy Spock'. Deal with it.

US$35k would have gotten me a one or two bedroom condo in a dodgy part of North Miami Beach, FL in the late 90s.
US$550k would put you in the range of a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house in Sacramento County, CA (roughly 2k sq ft interior) or Hillsborough County, FL (running about 4k sq. ft interior).

As Kristen said, the repair costs are chump change to the builders and insurers in the market.