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Question Whateley RPG... How would chara. gen. work?

9 years 4 months ago #1 by Malady
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  • I've been reading up on Tabletop RPGs again...

    And I just thought about the old Whateley RPG ideas...

    What would a Whateley Character Generation System look like? How would it manage to deal with the Combinatorial Explosion of possible alterations from the human form that is the Meta-gene Complex Activation???!

    Anyone got ideas?
    9 years 4 months ago #2 by NeoMagus
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  • Sheesh, you've got me. I'm not familiar enough with Tabletop RPG's to have any clue how that would work, though I imagine trying to make any kind of balanced system from the mechanics of the WU would be a major pain in the rear...

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    9 years 4 months ago #3 by Dawnfyre
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  • you would need to design the powers for each type of character so they can roll for the powers.
    a lot of exemplars, but they would need to roll for the level
    what power does the exemplar have, then sub classes for ones like energizers, also what level is the power.
    the last roll for the character, something like 5 d 20, a 97 or better they get a GSD case.

    avatars, not always an exemplar, what level avatar.
    a d3 for spirit class
    a d20 for spirit power
    then a big roll setup to pick the spirit.
    then what does the spirit do to/with them (if anything)

    devisors, need to roll power level, deidricks + severity if yes, did they get the exemplar package also.
    gageteers same as devisors minus the deidricks rolls.
    energizers, level, type.

    make every character need to roll re gender changes.

    Stupidity is a capitol offense, a summary not indictable one.
    9 years 4 months ago #4 by konzill
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  • there is a range of existing RPG's that could do Whateley quite well:

    Mutants & Masterminds: this is a d20 system for making superheros also comes in a DC branded version.

    Cortex Plus: this is a dice pool system which had a short lived Marvel branded Version. a different variant was also used in the. Smalville game.

    Icons: another rules light superhero game.

    Savage Worlds: a rules medium system that has a supers suplement

    Hero System: probably the most complicated cted version. The core book is about two inches thick.

    Gurps: another generic system which does supers well, 3d6 based system

    BESM: a system intenled for anime roleplaying. Its based on 2d6 rolls

    BRP: a generic system using d100 an oldie but still workedble

    FATE: a modern narrative system there is a free suplement for supers that would work, nnd another in the works

    HeroQuest: a narrative system that uses 1 d20 per player. Its very nice but would require some work.

    RISUS: the anything rpg. This is the lightest system that could possibly work. The rules are 4 pages long and honestly you could use the MID's as is to play. As things in risus are nomally rated on a 1-6 scale and 1-7 would not break the system.
    9 years 4 months ago #5 by Malady
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  • 9 years 4 months ago #6 by NeoMagus
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  • Dawnfyre wrote: you would need to design the powers for each type of character so they can roll for the powers.
    a lot of exemplars, but they would need to roll for the level
    what power does the exemplar have, then sub classes for ones like energizers, also what level is the power.
    the last roll for the character, something like 5 d 20, a 97 or better they get a GSD case.

    avatars, not always an exemplar, what level avatar.
    a d3 for spirit class
    a d20 for spirit power
    then a big roll setup to pick the spirit.
    then what does the spirit do to/with them (if anything)

    devisors, need to roll power level, deidricks + severity if yes, did they get the exemplar package also.
    gageteers same as devisors minus the deidricks rolls.
    energizers, level, type.

    make every character need to roll re gender changes.


    Actually, this level of complexity is why I suggested the limitations that I did. Switching between whole different power types on a whim could get very OP very quickly. More what I had in mind just different varieties of exemplars; some faster and more agile, some stronger and more durable, some with heightened (or extra) senses, some with enhanced mental capacity, etc. So actual possible abilities would be limited to the range of basic exemplars (with the exception of some limited esper sensitivity). The more interesting aspect of the shifting would actually be the personality and skills angle. One form could be an expert thief but is terrified of any kind of combat, while another could be a beefy berserker who is often reckless because he isn't afraid of anything, and still another could be a young kid with an talent for music and a keen danger sense. Let the concept be more about the character exploring different personalities and perspectives, rather than constantly trying to roll up the most OP form he can.

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    9 years 4 months ago #7 by Mister D
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  • NeoMagus wrote: Actually, this level of complexity is why I suggested the limitations that I did. Switching between whole different power types on a whim could get very OP very quickly. More what I had in mind just different varieties of exemplars; some faster and more agile, some stronger and more durable, some with heightened (or extra) senses, some with enhanced mental capacity, etc. So actual possible abilities would be limited to the range of basic exemplars (with the exception of some limited esper sensitivity). The more interesting aspect of the shifting would actually be the personality and skills angle. One form could be an expert thief but is terrified of any kind of combat, while another could be a beefy berserker who is often reckless because he isn't afraid of anything, and still another could be a young kid with an talent for music and a keen danger sense. Let the concept be more about the character exploring different personalities and perspectives, rather than constantly trying to roll up the most OP form he can.


    Have you thought about looking at one of the game systems that's more biased towards story-telling rather than action?

    It helps avoid the munchkin-style OP aspects.

    White Wolf had a rule-set that was created for LARP.

    Gotta love the Stanislavsky influence on this style of RP.


    Measure Twice
    9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #8 by jmhyp
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  • konzill wrote: Hero System: probably the most complicated cted version. The core book is about two inches thick.

    Formerly known as Champions. Great system once you wrap your head around it. With experienced players it is seemless.

    RISUS: the anything rpg. This is the lightest system that could possibly work. The rules are 4 pages long and honestly you could use the MID's as is to play. As things in risus are nomally rated on a 1-6 scale and 1-7 would not break the system.

    THAT'S AWESOME!! I love RISUS and you are right, you almost could use the MID, as is, as the entire character sheet. It's even got "too much" info compared to the RISUS char sheet. That said, wrapping one's head around RISUS is difficult for some people because of its inherent simplicity.

    And for the person asking for links: Google "RPG name of system" generally works.
    Last Edit: 9 years 4 months ago by jmhyp.
    9 years 4 months ago #9 by Valentine
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  • All this depends upon how you want character generation to work.

    If you want the players to generate random powers, there are systems that are built around that, IMO they don't work very well because powers that don't make sense together.

    Otherwise you just need to pick a system en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Superhero_role-playing_games

    Don't Drick and Drive.
    9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #10 by konzill
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  • Malady wrote:

    konzill wrote: Snip...


    Links please?

    ICONS example: icons-truth-justice-and-gaming.wikispace...ter+Creation+Example


    I tried to edit my post and put in links. but the System decided that i had too many links and wouldn't let me continue. Sorry You will just have to google it.

    one good place to look for PDF's of RPG rule books is www.drivethrurpg.com/ Most of the systems I listed are available there. Fate + Venture City Stories is probably the best combination
    especially for someone with Little RPG experience. Best yet you can get the PDF's free, (technically Pay What you want) from drive thru rpg.
    Last Edit: 9 years 4 months ago by konzill.
    9 years 4 months ago #11 by Domoviye
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  • Fate is a good one, but if you like detailed rules and structure Gurps is solid.
    BESM is a nice rules light game with a nice structure, but get third edition and be careful as characters progress they easily become overpowering.
    9 years 4 months ago #12 by konzill
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  • Have you thought about looking at one of the game systems that's more biased towards story-telling rather than action?


    My Picks on this would again be Cortex Plus or Fate, depending on wheare ther you want your die mechanics to be complex or simple, Fate being the simpler game. Both Games featuer the idea that I'll allow my character take a handicap of fail now to earn plot points I can use later, to make my character succeed when its narrative desirable for them to do so. HeroQuest RPG is also a very narrative system, but creates its narrativism in a different way.
    9 years 4 months ago #13 by Yolandria
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  • There's tons of various Super's games available for use. What i would do is search out some of the more popular games and Dload some of the rule books and then take bits and pieces of the different games until you have what you like/looking for. And then poof. Copy/paste the different sections from the various pdf's into one master book and then add/edit it a few more times. Then once finished print it out and stick in a 3 ring binder. And then search for/spring it on your existing game group. Just a few thoughts. Hope it helps. Would love to play in this genre.

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    9 years 4 months ago #14 by Domoviye
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  • Mixing and matching rules and making them work! I'm seriously impressed. You must like working with systems,
    9 years 4 months ago #15 by Yolandria
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  • Well when your a Rpg nerd like myself...It comes natural. =) Been playing rpg's for 20+ years.

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    9 years 4 months ago #16 by NeoMagus
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  • Mister D wrote: Have you thought about looking at one of the game systems that's more biased towards story-telling rather than action?

    It helps avoid the munchkin-style OP aspects.

    White Wolf had a rule-set that was created for LARP.

    Gotta love the Stanislavsky influence on this style of RP.


    :huh: ... :blink: ...(FACEPALM)... :pinch:

    Um...my bad, I totally got confused about which thread I was posting in. I was actually referring to a character concept I wrote up in the Bad Ideas thread that involved using RPG style character generation as mechanism for directing shifter powers. Totally didn't mean to jump back into this conversation that I'm so not qualified for... :dry: :unsure:

    (stands contritely as a figure that looks remarkably similar to one Leroy Jethro Gibbs delivers a sharp smack to the back of the head)

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    9 years 4 months ago #17 by Domoviye
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  • I've played them off and on for almost twenty years but I prefered the world building to the rules side of it.
    9 years 4 months ago #18 by Nagrij
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  • You all forgot GURPS. For shame!

    More rules than RISUS, but it literally covers every type of character, every type of world, and every type of potential screw-up.

    www.patreon.com/Nagrij

    If you like my writing, please consider helping me out, and see the rest of the tales I spin on Patreon.
    9 years 4 months ago #19 by Domoviye
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  • Hey I mentioned it. I even said it was good if they wanted concrete rules.
    9 years 4 months ago #20 by Yolandria
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  • So am i. God i love a game system with tons of fluff which is why i gravitate towards games like Rift's, Cyberpunk 2020 etc.

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    9 years 4 months ago #21 by Domoviye
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  • I started off in rifts when I was 13 or 14. Was so obsessive I could name the book and page number when people asked questioned. Horrible system lovely ideas.
    I like WoD the newer one, and was getting into Fate just before I left my last gaming group back in China.
    9 years 4 months ago #22 by Yolandria
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  • I have to agree about the Palladium system. I hate how retarded the combat system can get. Which is why i have a home brewed combat system that still uses the mdc/sdc ideas while still streamlining things more along the lines of Cyberpunks ultra lethal quick and dirty system. I'm currently in the middle of a huge Rift's compilation project. I have all 80+ books on the comp now. Slowly when i have time in between reading your stories i'm breaking down the pdf's into the core component areas. Once that's done ill compile into a handful of new books to make things a lot easier to find.

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    9 years 4 months ago #23 by Kristin Darken
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  • A number of people have done Whateley RPG rules systems over the years, using a variety of existing and completely unique mechanics to do so. The biggest thing to understand going in is that the concepts used in the story universe are not inherently designed for balance. You cannot, for instance, compare an Exemplar 4 with a Shifter 4 or a PSI 4 or a Wiz 4 and get anywhere close to a balanced power scale. Additionally, there are a lot of things that (to do them as a game system) would have to be designed as power trait modifiers used in a combination of advantages and disadvantages off the core power in ways to adequately build reasonable techniques without giving too much power to someone.

    For that reason, the power traits tend to be reeeeeally complicated to work out from the perspective of a point based trait level w/ advantage cost modification type system. If you like to play with number based character building, that might appeal to you... but it really tends to get in the way of the game itself if you don't have a whole group of people who like that sort of thing. From a more abstract story telling system, balance has to be handled somewhat loosely... or you simply have to accept that characters aren't balanced and not stress that. It makes combat tougher to resolve, because you're basically just using luck and opinion as to what power technique wins a given clash... and that can be tough on players who like 'fair' mechanics.

    If you really want to build an RPG, you'd have to spend the time digging out the real underlying physics and potential of each power and map it to a complex point based system. And then you have to develop combat systems that work for physical, energy, thought/emotion, and spirit based settings. The more future oriented games tend to have Psi rules (or cyberspace rules, which often are interchangeable with psy metaphorical constructs). It'd take lots of work. :)

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    9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #24 by konzill
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  • or you simply have to accept that characters aren't balanced and not stress that. It makes combat tougher to resolve


    If you are using a narrative system it doesn't have to be about combat. There are many other options. thats what makes narrative systems so awesome. They have generic conflict mechanics which can be psed to sneak into the secprity office, or hack Hardfords compter or mount a defnce before a review panel, just s evsily as they can be used for combat.

    Looking at actual Whateley characters consider Tenyod sure she could probably kill anyone in a stright up fight. But how often does the story actually let her go to town with that power?

    you'd have to spend the time digging out the real underlying physics and potential of each power and map it to a complex point based system.


    In a simulationist game sure. In a narativivst one not so much. One simple approach is to look at what kind of trait each agent in a conflict is using and give the one with the most specifim ability a bonus.

    And then you have to develop combat systems that work for physical, energy, thought/emotion, and spirit based settings.


    Again this may be true of Gurps, but it isn't true of Fate or Cortex Plus or HeroQuest. All of them feature a generic colflict resolution mechanic which can be applied to any situation without needing special rules. Yes this leads to a game that isn't realistic in a strict sense. But really the superhero genre isn't realistic to begin with. My favourite trope example h'e is the number of yimes that supers Forget their own powers
    Last Edit: 9 years 4 months ago by konzill. Reason: Added a clarification
    9 years 4 months ago #25 by FuzzyBoots
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  • I personally am a big fan of Mutants and Masterminds, but I honestly don't think that it would work for Whateley for one simple reason; Mutants and Masterminds has balance built into it. I mean, you could always write up Team Kimba as PL 12 characters (able to join the Justice League now and hold their own) and most of the rest of the students as PL 6 (about as a good as an elite soldier) and you'd get the results of the stories...
    9 years 4 months ago #26 by Luca
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  • That's not actually a problem though. As long as the players are on kind of an even playing field, it doesn't matter what power level the rest of the student body happens to be. TK simply isn't threatened by many people at Whateley, but that's fine because when they do have a serious fight it's against the upper crust of the student body, an external threat, or they are split up. Also, as konzill pointed out, not all conflicts are physical. There are plenty of ways for a mental or social powerhouse to excel.
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