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Question IS a 600lb PK Field Bulletproof?

7 years 11 months ago #1 by Iwasforger03
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    • If a mutant had a fullbody pk field ala Hank or Mirror rated for 600lbs of force, is that bulletproof and against which rounds does it work? At what Caliber do the rounds penetrate anyways?
    I am a Sexy Shoeless God of War - So suck it CP!
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    7 years 11 months ago #2 by JG
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    • If I recall correctly, (don't quote me on this) but If I recall, bullet stopping starts around the PK 3-4 range.
    7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #3 by Katssun
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    • It gets more complicated when you add in Exemplar and costume armor. Even if it makes it through it may not matter.

    There are a surprising number of references where even non-Kevra fabric can stop anything from small arms fire to .50BMG, and even if it makes it through a PK field, some levels of Exemplars are naturally resistant to bullets.
    Last Edit: 7 years 11 months ago by Katssun.
    7 years 11 months ago #4 by Valentine
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    • I do believe that it might depend upon what sort of bullet is being shot at the PK field. A .50 cal can have close to 15,000 ft/lbs of energy and a .22 Long is under 100 ft/lbs. That's a pretty wide range.
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    7 years 11 months ago #5 by Iwasforger03
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    • JG wrote: If I recall correctly, (don't quote me on this) but If I recall, bullet stopping starts around the PK 3-4 range.


    I'm quoting you ^_^

    You're supposed to be the authority, if we can't trust you, who can we trust?

    Jokes aside, thanks. That should help alot, even if it's not 100% accurate. I get sometimes you don't remember the answer and don't have time to look yet.
    I am a Sexy Shoeless God of War - So suck it CP!
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    7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #6 by NJM1564
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    • Technically battleship main guns fire bullets. Railguns too. Nothing is bulletproof.
    Last Edit: 7 years 11 months ago by NJM1564.
    7 years 11 months ago #7 by Sir Lee
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    • It depends a lot on the nature of the PK field. Meaning, how much and how fast is it able to concentrate those 600 lbf in a coin-sized area?

    Even a field in the ton-level of strength won't resist a bullet if it takes too long to react, or if it's unable to focus all its strength in a small area.

    And even for bricks such as Lancer, there are "brick-killer" bullets that are (usually) able to punch through his PK field.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    7 years 11 months ago #8 by E. E. Nalley
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    • There is a huge variance in how much energy a particular project contains based upon a wild assortments of bullet weight, powder load, and the distance traveled. Muscle velocity in the velocity can be separated by miles. To give it a good idea of this below is a chart for the 22 Long rifle

    Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
    40 gr. (2.6 g) Solid[2] 1,200 ft/s (370 m/s) 104 ft·lbf (141 J)
    38 gr. (2.5 g) Copper-plated HP[2] 1,260 ft/s (380 m/s) 134 ft·lbf (182 J)
    32 gr. (2.1 g) Copper-plated HP[2] 1,430 ft/s (440 m/s) 141 ft·lbf (191 J)
    31 gr. (2.0 g) Copper-plated RN[3] 1,750 ft/s (530 m/s) 204 ft·lbf (277 J)
    30 gr. (1.9 g) Copper-plated HP[3] 1,640 ft/s (500 m/s) 191 ft·lbf (259 J)

    Even this simple bullet, which most would not consider a truly defensive round (though no one who thinks that way want to get shot with one) gives a spread of 104 foot-pounds all the way up to 204 foot-pounds all of bullet less than a quarter of an inch wide and the cartridge barely 2 inches long. It's a really which talk about is bullet resistance, not proofing. You may find the Wikipedia article on body armor threat ratings of value.
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    7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #9 by Arcanist Lupus
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    • Hm... Could a bulletproof PK brick learn to use their field to accelerate bullets? It's the same amount of force required to start or stop them after all, just applied in a different manner.
    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    Last Edit: 7 years 11 months ago by Arcanist Lupus.
    7 years 11 months ago #10 by annachie
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    • It's as bullet resistant as you need it to be. :)
    7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #11 by Kristin Darken
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    • throw a bullet

    Why would you want to?

    The main advantages to a bullet come from the way it's motion is guided from the point of explosion until after it leaves the barrel of the weapon. Without those things... rifling, designed tumble, etc... all you have is an object in motion in the air. A bullet is actually fairly far down the scale of ideal aerodynamics for thrown objects... even if you can throw them at forces comparable to a firearm.

    And if you're going to use a PK shell to support your efforts, why not use it in a fashion that uses physics to your advantage. For example, there are a number of weapons from history that make improvements on the concept of 'throwing' through the use of centrifugal forces. The sling, the spear thrower, and others. Consider the potential of a sling used inside the PK shell much like Lancer's paper swords... where the shell is extended around the length of the sling, the stone (or bullet) outside.

    The only reason it probably doesn't happen all the time is few PK end up doing long range weapons. Either they are also warpers/energizers and have other 'blaster' abilities... or they end up being melee tanks because they can take a hit. And who are you going to hit with it? It'll kill anyone who doesn't have at least the equivalent PK shell...
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    Last Edit: 7 years 11 months ago by Kristin Darken.
    7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #12 by Arcanist Lupus
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    • I didn't mean throwing a bullet using your arms. I was thinking about accelerating an object purely using the PK field with no body movement at all, railgun style. I'm sure that there are lots of ways that that could come in handy, even considering the problematic aerodynamics.

    On a slightly different note, how do bullets striking a bulletproof PK shield act? Do they loose all momentum and drop straight down, or do they bounce off with some fraction of their original energy, or something else entirely?
    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    Last Edit: 7 years 11 months ago by Arcanist Lupus.
    7 years 11 months ago #13 by Sir Lee
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    • It depends on the particulars of this PK field. They are not all the same -- some will ricochet, some will absorb the energy, depending on the preference of the character's creator.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    7 years 11 months ago #14 by NJM1564
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    • Arcanist Lupus wrote: I didn't mean throwing a bullet using your arms. I was thinking about accelerating an object purely using the PK field with no body movement at all, railgun style. I'm sure that there are lots of ways that that could come in handy, even considering the problematic aerodynamics.

    On a slightly different note, how do bullets striking a bulletproof PK shield act? Do they loose all momentum and drop straight down, or do they bounce off with some fraction of their original energy, or something else entirely?


    It would be like setting off a bullet outside of a gun. The force would diffuse to much to be useful or get any acceleration with out a barrel to focus it long enough to get the projectiles momentum up.
    Or hand wave the whole issue and use anime physics.
    Mikoto Misaka a caracter from A Certain Magical Index and A Certain Scientific Railgun is an electro-master (in this world she would be an PK/electricity energizer). She can use her power to launch coins like a railgun with pinpoint accuracy without melting her hands or puncturing her eardrums from the super sonic shock wave. And in reality the damage would be a lot worse than just that.
    7 years 11 months ago #15 by E!
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    • Arcanist Lupus wrote: I didn't mean throwing a bullet using your arms. I was thinking about accelerating an object purely using the PK field with no body movement at all, railgun style. I'm sure that there are lots of ways that that could come in handy, even considering the problematic aerodynamics.


    In Yu Yu Hakusho the Big Bad shoots tiny vacuum burst with his thumbs at Yusuke in the final of the Dark Tournament saga.
    7 years 11 months ago #16 by Kaitha39
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    • Arcanist Lupus wrote: On a slightly different note, how do bullets striking a bulletproof PK shield act? Do they loose all momentum and drop straight down, or do they bounce off with some fraction of their original energy, or something else entirely?

    As Sir Lee said, it'd depend on the field itself.

    It would also depend on how the bullet actually hit. If you look at ballistic reports for rounds that failed to penetrate tank armour for instance, the bullets that hit dead on split between dropping dead and bouncing off. The rounds that hit at an angle tended to ricochet away, with fairly predictable (mathematically at least) trajectories.

    Realistically, the answers to these questions could be simplified as "It's fiction about superpowers. What do you need it to do for the plot, and is that reasonable with physics? If not, can you lampshade it funnily enough?"
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    7 years 11 months ago #17 by Valentine
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    • Kaitha39 wrote:

    Arcanist Lupus wrote: On a slightly different note, how do bullets striking a bulletproof PK shield act? Do they loose all momentum and drop straight down, or do they bounce off with some fraction of their original energy, or something else entirely?

    As Sir Lee said, it'd depend on the field itself.

    It would also depend on how the bullet actually hit. If you look at ballistic reports for rounds that failed to penetrate tank armour for instance, the bullets that hit dead on split between dropping dead and bouncing off. The rounds that hit at an angle tended to ricochet away, with fairly predictable (mathematically at least) trajectories.

    Realistically, the answers to these questions could be simplified as "It's fiction about superpowers. What do you need it to do for the plot, and is that reasonable with physics? If not, can you lampshade it funnily enough?"


    And keep it consistent for the character.
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    7 years 11 months ago #18 by Kristin Darken
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    • Generally, you cannot manipulate a PK shell enough to just move the shell, so trying to use just the shell to 'punch' bullets at your top force is extremely unlikely. You want to accelerate bullets directly with your mind/willpower, you need to have TK... not a PK shell. Remember, unless you have high levels of finesse with your PK shell... you can't even grab hold of objects that are as small as a bullet with it. You either crush them or knock them away from you. Heavy objects too large or unwieldy to normally be lifted by a man-sized lifter... that's the purview of the PK.

    Lifting 2-3000 pounds of car hanging on a platform at the end of a chain? Exemplar
    Lifting the same car by its bumper without tearing the car apart? PK
    Lifting or catching that car in mid-air from 100 yds? TK

    Taking a hit from small arms fire and having it burn a hole in your combat clothing and a welt and some discoloration from the heat when it ricocheted? Exemplar
    Taking a hit from small arms fire and having it ricochet off your shell without even hitting your clothing or flesh? PK
    Catching the bullets flying at you and your entire team 3 yards out from hitting anyone and just letting them drop to the group? TK
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    7 years 11 months ago #19 by Valentine
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    • Someone wrote:

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]

    Hippolyta pulled herself standing and glared at the girl, whose expression didn’t change from the twisted mask of anger she wore at the realization that her opponent had gotten back up. Hank watched as Caitlin raised the weapon fast, slamming home a fresh magazine as he dropped all pretense of subtlety and hit the ground hard in front of Hippolyta, blocking the Exemplar as Caitlin let rip on full-auto, holding the weapon out one-handed like a pistol.

    The bullets hit his PK field, and simply stopped, falling to the ground harmlessly, intact, in front of him. Contrary to the movies the bullets didn’t pancake against the psychokinetic energy, rather coming to a standstill about an inch from his chest and falling. Thirty bullets stopped in rapid order, the adrenaline pounding Hank so hard he could almost count the rapid-fire cracks of each bullet going off in the chamber.


    So now we know how Hank's field works.
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    7 years 11 months ago #20 by Iwasforger03
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    • Cool! I think I'm gonna boost it up to 800lbs. An always on field that has the level of dexterity in not crushing things Hank has shown, but its user so far lacks the ability to allows people or objects through the field deliberately (aside from consuming food) and the field doesn't block sonic or air attacks because otherwise they'd suffocate, be deaf, and be unable to hear.
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    7 years 11 months ago #21 by Kristin Darken
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    • You could say that a PK shell is just TK that innately synergizes with the mutant's own aura in a way that provides both sensory awareness (it will stop attacks from the rear without 'seeing' them just as easily as those from the front). The more 'flexibility' the mutant has with their shell, the more it performs/resembles traditional TK.
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