Question Into The Light - Discussion

Entire first book is up!

Part I
Part II
Part III
Part IV
Part V
Part VI

Part II up! More this weekend or next week!

And Part III with arrival at Whateley!

Thanks also to Null0Trooper for the help!

Enjoying re-reading this.

The discussion between Rabbi Kirov and Aradia, reminds me somewhat of Omniquantism, http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fc01386.htm
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fc01387.htm
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fc01388.htm
Looking forward to the re-write of the rest of the story.

Mister D wrote:
The discussion between Rabbi Kirov and Aradia, reminds me somewhat of Omniquantism, http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fc01386.htm
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fc01387.htm
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fc01388.htm

I love this comic! Been checking it nightly as part of my daily dose of web comics for awhile!

Glad you've enjoyed! Thanks!

You need a Read More Tag on at least Part 2...

Malady wrote: You need a Read More Tag on at least Part 2...

Eep, thought I had one. But currently it's not letting me edit it any of them, including ones not public yet. o.O

Part IV (4, four, quatro!) is up!

Thanks again to Null0Trooper for the editing help!

Part V is up!

I just finished reading it. I can say that I'm waiting anxiously for the next part. So Here's a bit of encouragement, for me at least this works very well. Keep up the excellent work.

Anne wrote: I just finished reading it. I can say that I'm waiting anxiously for the next part. So Here's a bit of encouragement, for me at least this works very well. Keep up the excellent work.

Thanks! Last part for the first book is now up... And I need to get busy on the next one!

I hereby decree this: a good story!

There were definite elements that were recognizable from other stories, but done in a way that still feels fresh. I noticed there was no mention of year so it'd be hard to flat out state that something conflicted with canon. Our only hints to the time period is that Foob is still in his tank (supposedly, he managed to escape before Gen 2) and Tennyo seems to be well known. Speaking of Tennyo, 1: her codename is misleading and it would be funny to see her or Angel meet an actual angel, and 2: how encounters with any of the other class X students would go. I'm fairly certain that Jordan is at least a class 3 entity, though she probably doesn't reach class X. That said, she was described to potentially have the power to destroy galaxies which, as far as I know, is only matched by Tennyo.

Oh, and her going through the magic curriculum with her niece is going to be adorable. As adorable as, if not more (since they'd be classmates) than, if Kalie manifested and came to Whateley with Alyss.

One thing with most WhatIF that I've read is that it's not too difficult to separate it from canon while still being recognizably the same school and rules. One of the fun things with Whateley is you can through just about any kind of supernatural being at it and everything works fine!

I will say that, at end of the second book, the name "Angel of Death" seemed very foreboding, and also made me think of Undertale because Asreil/Azreal. For the other name, "Azazel," The first thing I saw on the Wikipedia page is "Not to be confused with 'Azreal'". It also seems to mean Scapegoat, of which I think The Final Trump had enough of.

I eagerly await book 2.

I just checked up on something I thought of while reading. From what I can tell, Satan and Lucifer are one and the same, with Lucifer becoming Satan at one point. Circuit Breaker (Paige and Petra, though only Petra still has access) has met Satan and seems to be on good terms with him. In addition, the wiki claims that Sara has also met with Satan. Jordan was called "Aradia" by Soren. Since Soren seems to know his stuff, it's fairly likely that Jordan is the actual reincarnation of Aradia: daughter of Lucifer. If Jordan were to ever meet up with Sara or Petra, it's completely possible that one of them would be able to let her meet her demonic dad.

Imagine how that parent-child reunion would go...

Better yet, Satan shows up on his own on parents day. I mean, Gothmog visited to say to to Sara.

Angeldude wrote: Better yet, Satan shows up on his own on parents day. I mean, Gothmog visited to say to to Sara.

Except for that one time in Georgia , it might be a violation of the Balance for the Old Lightbringer to visit Earth.

'Satan' can potentially refer to many different entities, in some interpretations meaning 'Adversary' - and thus could be considered more of a title / position.

Wiki:Satan

There's even a Grigori named 'Satanael' (sometimes seen as 'Satanel') mentioned in the Book of Enoch, as a potential leader of these angels along with Shemhazai and Azazel.

The equating of Lucifer to 'Satan' is an interesting subject as well, because originally he wasn't the devil at all.

Lucifer

As the story here is a 'What IF' - it will stroll a ways outside of canon as things proceed in any case - both outside the canon of Whateley, and the canons of Judaism and Christianity (while incorporating ideas from them at the same time).

Glad you've enjoyed it so far! I'm hoping to be able to get back to writing properly in a couple weeks when things settle down a bit, the summer has been really crazy busy between work travel, multiple sets of visitors, and a bleh sinus infection...

Triple the non-canon! Really the whole post was nothing more than trying to justify an awkward parents day with the devil.

Angeldude wrote: Triple the non-canon! Really the whole post was nothing more than trying to justify an awkward parents day with the devil.

It would be a Parent's Day worth writing about, for sure...

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When it comes to the differences between Satan, Lucifer, Ahriman, and, all of the rest of them, there's a large amount of this that dates back to specific roles within the tribal societies at the time that the stories about these entities were evolving.

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For a more recent example, think about King Arthur.

From an archeological point of view, he was a 6th century warlord that fought against an invasion of Saxons.

He was probably a Romanised Celt, who, in theory, would have been able to claim that he was an heir to the Caesar's, in that he was a warlord in the far Western half of the Western Roman Empire.

However, the name Arthur can be translated as a corrupted form of Ar Toros, The Bull. This was a title, and not a personal name. It roughly meant that the person bearing it was the local leader of a branch of the cult of Mithras, the religion that was part and parcel of being a legionary.

This method of re-naming a person when they took on a new role, was common in roman times, but also served to mark the difference between the person that they were, and the role that they were fulfilling now.

This would also explain why there is such a large number of "Arthur's Seats", and sites relating to Arthur scattered all over the UK, as each of them would have been associated with one of the local warlords, and not the mythical "Arthur, King of the Britons!"

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A version of this, that is specifically attached to the Roman Catholic church, is the role of "Devil's Advocate." This person plays the role of Tempter/Tester in the process of someone being canonised as a saint.

This was performed in recognition of the time that Jesus spent in the desert, being tempted by Satan/The Serpent/Lucifer/The Dark One (Delete as applicable, according to which flavour of bible you use as reference material.)

Again this was a formal role that was seen as necessary. The approach can be described as the "How do you know that this person is moral, if they have not been tested yet?" school of philosophy, similar to the Red Brotherhood's approach towards pathesis.

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Apply this same pattern of "Playing a specific Role within Society", and you would get any number of localised diety's each of which would be seen as having a legitimate claim to being the Tester/Tempter, which was only made worse by the Roman Catholic Church's habits of absorbing/assimilating the local diety's cults, as well as the feast days, and the habits/restrictions.

Add in the Pauline misogyny, which leads to the female diety's being absorbed into Mary, or demonised, and you have a really good example of a system of political control being used within a religious framework.

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Erisian: Either way, it's a chewy topic, and, an interesting background for fleshing out the WU.

TY.

Mister D wrote: However, the name Arthur can be translated as a corrupted form of Ar Toros, The Bull. This was a title, and not a personal name. It roughly meant that the person bearing it was the local leader of a branch of the cult of Mithras, the religion that was part and parcel of being a legionary.

But when talking about Arthur, the Legions stationed in Brittania tended to be drawn from German and Celtic tribes, neither of which worshipped Mithras. Some came from further abroad, but when talking about cultural impacts, numbers matter. Also, Arthurian legend is tied more heavily to Welsh and Cumbrian ("Yr Hen Ogledd") history - British-speaking peoples who were not Romanized to the extent that the Britons to the east and south were.

Please, post another part. The wait is killing me!!!

Thank you for this amazing story

For me, it's great to see a story that truly positively associates religion with the Whateley universe. I have read almost everything else, and nowhere else is it given the serious treatment that it is given here. And as a computer programmer myself, it's nice to see your multi-disciplinary approach

Also, please don't take this as a negative criticism, but the penultimate scene with the ice cream was for me far more moving and perfect an ending (it brought me to tears) than the eventual cliff-hanger.

I have just one question: in the story you mentioned Sanskrit at least twice. Can you possibly comment on your thoughts and intentions with regards to those references?

Please continue this story. All I could think of when I opened part 6 was "oh no, it's going to end".

Ahimsa wrote: Thank you for this amazing story

Thanks! You totally made my day today!

To comment on your comments, Sanskrit was mentioned in book one along with other languages and their written symbols - a sub-theme of language and its power will be running through the story. I'd say more, but then I'd be tempted to reveal spoilers.

The ice cream ending is indeed the proper 'ending' of the first book, with the cliff-hanger bit as the 'epilogue/teaser' towards the next one. (And I can neither confirm nor deny needing tissues myself when getting that ending up on the page. -cough-) Parts 1 through 6 as posted comprise 'book one' as it were...

... which leads me to mention that yes, book two is almost halfway drafted! (~50k words so far!) And while I contemplated posting up the 'Parts' as they were written, I realized that finishing the draft of the entire book and making sure it has everything I need in there was the better way to go - so that as things develop to its conclusion I can go back and insert/modify/adjust the earlier chapters to improve things. Sadly this means delaying getting more out there for people to read sooner, but as a result once I start posting the next book up each 'Part' should come out fairly quickly!

I was hoping to be further along by now, but wow summer was crazy busy, and then fall just laughed and went 'oh really? how 'bout THIS!!'... but progress IS being made!

The entire story arc is likely to run at least four to five books in total, according to current scheming. Subject to change as the story demands, of course!

Erisian wrote: To comment on your comments, Sanskrit was mentioned in book one along with other languages and their written symbols - a sub-theme of language and its power will be running through the story. I'd say more, but then I'd be tempted to reveal spoilers.

Thanks so much for the insight. I'm also working on a story (that's taking forever to get anywhere), with an Indian main character, therefore the interest in any references to Indian culture in any story.

Erisian wrote: ... which leads me to mention that yes, book two is almost halfway drafted! (~50k words so far!) And while I contemplated posting up the 'Parts' as they were written, I realized that finishing the draft of the entire book and making sure it has everything I need in there was the better way to go - so that as things develop to its conclusion I can go back and insert/modify/adjust the earlier chapters to improve things. Sadly this means delaying getting more out there for people to read sooner, but as a result once I start posting the next book up each 'Part' should come out fairly quickly!

Great idea. Also, once the parts are all done, the reader knows that they only have to wait a finite time for the entire story. I'm still waiting for the next chapter in Task Force 43 for almost 2 years now...

Erisian wrote: The entire story arc is likely to run at least four to five books in total, according to current scheming. Subject to change as the story demands, of course!

You're a great writer. I for one will be patiently waiting for all of these books

Erisian wrote: ... which leads me to mention that yes, book two is almost halfway drafted! (~50k words so far!) And while I contemplated posting up the 'Parts' as they were written, I realized that finishing the draft of the entire book and making sure it has everything I need in there was the better way to go - so that as things develop to its conclusion I can go back and insert/modify/adjust the earlier chapters to improve things. Sadly this means delaying getting more out there for people to read sooner, but as a result once I start posting the next book up each 'Part' should come out fairly quickly!

I was hoping to be further along by now, but wow summer was crazy busy, and then fall just laughed and went 'oh really? how 'bout THIS!!'... but progress IS being made!

I find that news that progress is being made can be just as exciting as a part being published.

Something I forgot to mention earlier is that Evie's drawing of Jordan depicts her with golden wings while Gabriel is described with more traditional white wings. The flashback mentions that she was flying but made no mention of her having wings.
I'm pretty sure that Jordan will at some point in the future manifest actual golden wings (and probably fly).

Then there will have to be an Angel walk off once the wings manifest. I'm sure Mary( Angel) in Poe will want to compare notes. Same with Kerry (Seraphim) in Dickinson. Actually talking with Kerry would be a good way to compare notes since they both do simular things.

Time-wise I was aiming for fall of 2010 (or maybe 2011) deliberately to avoid clashing with Gen 1 and Gen 2 both. Hopefully Mary and Kerry will have graduated by then.

Seraphim was almost a reason for me not writing this at all, but as mine is in What IF I feel 'safe' with doing so anyway. The themes are obviously similar, although where I plan to take it as things go forward will be quite different. Whether what I have in mind will truly clash with canon mythos remains to be seen - as while I'm trying in a number of ways for it not to, I'm not privy to what the canon authors specifically have in mind (if anything) for ties to heavenly 'history'. I also don't want to limit this story if it ends up wanting to go out of the bounds as currently planned.

Progress update (if anyone wants to know lol): Parts 1 through 5 have been drafted, Part 6 needs the last two chapters to complete it. Worked on it like crazy over holiday break but didn't quite get to the finish line - this one is a bit more complicated and involved, and thus the writing has gone slower than the first book. But it's definitely heading towards the finish line.

Just a little bit more.

Something I've been looking forward to with Jordan is since she's a ex-software developer, it will be interesting seeing a programmer perspective on magic. I mean, they're basically the same thing, right? Judging by what was in the first book, it seems like she'll essentially be working in magical assembly. I've only seen 3 other series where someone who's done programming has since done magic and they only occasionally bring up the comparisons. (2 of those series are on /r/HFY)

Angeldude wrote: Something I've been looking forward to with Jordan is since she's a ex-software developer, it will be interesting seeing a programmer perspective on magic.

Yes, like can you re-factor? Are there more efficient paradigms to do the same thing? Is there.... meta-magic?

Ahimsa wrote:

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

LISP is magic!

Obligatory XKCD.

Jordan's software background will definitely influence her understanding of magic and the nature of gods and angels... when she has time to actually think about and study them.

That being said, I am hoping to tread carefully because over-explaining spiritual and mystical ideas can take away from the very mystery that makes their stories more intriguing and fun - and also can limit the author and the story itself. A huge criticism of the Star Wars Prequels was the over-explanation of the Force as being due to the whole 'midichlorians' thing... which took away from the sense of myth and fantasy and left it feeling more 'mundane'. How well this story balances it all is something only the readers can judge...

Looking forward to the next episode.