Question Posies accidentally outing themselves by oogling the wrong sex?

In Eris and the Golden Apple, sadly unfinished:

What? You didn't think I noticed like most of the Poe boys looking at the Twain, Emerson, and Melville boys like we in turn looked at the Dickenson, Whitman, and Melville girls.

Canon Poesies are more discreet, right?

Well in one of the stories with the Parkour Hooligans, Eric discovered the Posie secret after being ogled by one too many boys. So no, they aren't all discrete.

Realistically the secret would not last a single year. I think its one of the things that you have to go with in terms of Whateley. Just assume its because of the magical wards on the cottage and leave it at that.

On the subject of "leaving it to magic", Eric was brought up as somebody who figured it all out from obvious ogling, but they also have a rather unique relationship with magic. If the magic that maintains Poe's secret extends beyond merely those personally ensorcelled, then Eric would certainly rate highly among those who could resist such an effect, I'd think.

They didn't use individual spells till some time after gen1. If memory serves.

I wouldn't say it's that obvious. For us, who know the secret, it's obvious. We can pinpoint the signs, and bring them out. But for those who haven't, there's so many factors in there, it becomes hard to assemble. You don't see a single student, and the only factor you have is 'they're gay'. There's a lot of things that go along with them, some in common, some not so much. Not to mention that some are also bisexual or even date multiple people. And not all the gays are in Poe either. Some are from other cottages, but are simply in the closet. They still oogle the same sex nonetheless.

To say that the whole cottage would be outed in one go is a stretch. There's a lot of grey areas just in that single place, so anyone trying to investigate will have issues getting a clear picture. There's exceptions for everything, and if you try to peer inside, there's a lot of protection for their privacy.

I can see single students getting pointed out as homosexual. Some might even come out right off the bat. But one case doesn't describe the whole cottage.

Again, i got back to 'the mystery is obvious, if you already know the answer'. The signs are there, but you don't put them together, until the end. How many detective stories can you decypher who the real culprit is, until the end, where the plot twist is revealed? Watch the story a second time, and it seems obvious after. It's a matter of perspective.

We argued this point wrt Gen 2 - would the secret still be secret by Gen 2? And we had to postulate that, in the WU, anti-gay bigotry is alive and well even in Gen 2. So the need for the secret still exists. It's quite arguable that to us, who KNOW the secret, it's obvious, bit it is not so obvious to those who don't know the secret. That's an important thing to remember. Note - Kayda contributed to the "wacko, needs help" cover story through being forced to out herself in the trial - and breaking down; that combination would reinforce the view that Poesies are nuts. There are enough things that look nutso that Poe gays ogling other boys could easily be excused as "they're just nuts anyway - it's probably something they don't know what they're doing".

Would it last? Given all the other super-power threats and bullying and stuff the students deal with, do you really think that a guy or girl from a nutso cottage apparently ogling another of the same sex is going to cause significant analysis leading to destroying the secret? I don't. Outing the gays is probably much higher on Maslow's heirarchy than surviving the powers labs, the bullies, and other stuff.

elrodw wrote: We argued this point wrt Gen 2

Do you mean 'we' the Authors, or 'we' the community?

'Cause yeah, I remember there being a discussion by us, here? : whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forumscomm...nders?start=10#16862

But, the more important point is:

elrodw wrote: There are enough things that look nutso that Poe gays ogling other boys could easily be excused as "they're just nuts anyway - it's probably something they don't know what they're doing".

Thanks. I didn't know they were thought of as that nutso.

Malady wrote:

elrodw wrote: We argued this point wrt Gen 2

Do you mean 'we' the Authors, or 'we' the community?

'Cause yeah, I remember there being a discussion by us, here? : whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forumscomm...nders?start=10#16862

WE, the Gen 2 community who were doing the world-building for Gen 2

But, the more important point is:

elrodw wrote: There are enough things that look nutso that Poe gays ogling other boys could easily be excused as "they're just nuts anyway - it's probably something they don't know what they're doing".

Thanks. I didn't know they were thought of as that nutso.

I'm not able to speak for others, but wrt Kayda, I can definitively say that after the trial, she IS looked at as in need of counseling and a bit nutso, and because of events, she gets (mostly) a pass for ogling other girls. Then again, she was pushed into outing herself, so she plays well into the cover story.

Also, at least for Gen 1, when someone starts saying all the gays are in Poe. Posies will bring up Hank and Lily, Megs, Toni, Jade, Billie, Nikki, all of those are or have had fairly public heterosexual dates. Then they will point to Reach and Spark, and any other obvious gay relationships outside Poe.

Eric noticed because he had years of Poe guys crushing on him, and he only figured out part of the secret. Now if they put Reach, and Jobe, and Gotterdamerung, and Folder, and Eldritch into Poe, then someone might figure out the other half.

oh please put them all in poe infact put all 4 main outcast corner peeps in there three fit the sex change and Jericho would just back up the crazy story

I might add that while teens may suspect and even bully other teens for "looking gay", they are rarely SURE. Two of my close friends in high school turned out to be gay. Back then, was there some minor bullying because people suspected them of not being quite "manly?" Sure there was - mostly some unkind nicknames. But not that much, because people didn't KNOW for sure. I didn't know, the bullies didn't know, hell, AFAIK even my two gay friends weren't sure about their sexuality back then.

My point being... other students may suspect a particular Poesie of being gay/lesbian. But they wouldn't KNOW, unless the Poesie was pretty blatant or deliberately outed themself. Most other Poesies won't be that blatant. Some of the Poesies ogling other student might be dismissed as "general weirdness" in a non-sexual way. And there ARE people in other cottages who are equally suspicious, or even in some cases already out (Saladin, Loophole, the Reach/Spark situation...), so... essentially, not enough reliable data to see a trend.

That makes a lot of sense.
Eric is/was a paranoid person who pays attention to his surroundings and watches every little detail, even if his imterpersonal skills suck. With enough time he was able to pick out the pattern. Most teens are much less observant and would mostly just pay attention to students their own age. Sure one or two posies might make them a little uncomfortable, or be openly gay, but that's two out of dozens for that year. .

From a "no touching allowed" high school housing perspective, specific LGBT housing is non-intuitive. If you're trying to keep your students from having sex, you don't devote housing to putting students with compatible orientations as close as possible.


Also, Poe's secret draws strength from it's improbability. "You think that Poe is special housing for gays? There's no chance - we have perverts who literally see through walls and at least three different clubs devoted to sneaking around. There's no way they could keep a secret like that.

Neither of these things is very substantial on it's own, but combined with everything else it makes for a strong net of denial. Not enough to convince anyone who seriously suspects, but a well crafted deflection ward would be designed to use these points to head off such suspicions before they got started.

The "no touching" rule is one that admin does not really want to enforce, and the way the administration phrases it strongly suggests it amounts to "please don't get caught." Witness the school using a legal loophole to keep from expelling Kayda and Lainie. I believe that the rule is on the books only to make parents happy.

Sir Lee wrote: The "no touching" rule is one that admin does not really want to enforce, and the way the administration phrases it strongly suggests it amounts to "please don't get caught." Witness the school using a legal loophole to keep from expelling Kayda and Lainie. I believe that the rule is on the books only to make parents happy.

Yep. The school obviously has a power generator that runs on lust and the souls of babies. Hence no one ever getting pregnant. Poe probably supplies half the state with power just by itself.

Domoviye wrote:

Sir Lee wrote: The "no touching" rule is one that admin does not really want to enforce, and the way the administration phrases it strongly suggests it amounts to "please don't get caught." Witness the school using a legal loophole to keep from expelling Kayda and Lainie. I believe that the rule is on the books only to make parents happy.

Yep. The school obviously has a power generator that runs on lust and the souls of babies. Hence no one ever getting pregnant. Poe probably supplies half the state with power just by itself.

Half the United States you mean.
everyone knows gays, lesbians, bisexuals are freaks of nature and massively oversexed.

You actually have the same problem with Whateley as a Whole. How does it stay secret? Sure people don't talk about it but you have large numbers of mutant kids using nearby train stations and airports on every single school break. This alone should have tipped more observant members of Humanity First that there must be a mutant school in the area.

There was some chatter about some nearby H1-ers with a mutant detector that pointed to Whateley and going "Nah, there's no mutants there! This detector is busted!" ... Somewhere... Old Forum, maybe...

konzill wrote: You actually have the same problem with Whateley as a Whole. How does it stay secret? Sure people don't talk about it but you have large numbers of mutant kids using nearby train stations and airports on every single school break. This alone should have tipped more observant members of Humanity First that there must be a mutant school in the area.

Dunwich and Berlin, to a lesser extent, get a lot of income from the school being there. So it is in their best interest to keep quiet about the school. Oddly enough the MCO probably helps keep it a secret too. Plus the State and US Governments.

Well, Whateley is a bit of an open secret among the nearby towns -- as I pointed out elsewhere, if Whateley is a major employer and/or consumer of local services, people will want to make sure that it doesn't go away. Simply stated, the environment is not favorable for an H1! cell -- people may have their personal grumbles about mutants, but they don't want to see half their friends unemployed. Whateley is also home to the best hospital in the region, AND has probably done quite a bit over the years to mitigate the historical Class X Mythos problems they had for centuries -- two more reasons to not want to drive the school away.

Valentine wrote:

konzill wrote: You actually have the same problem with Whateley as a Whole. How does it stay secret? Sure people don't talk about it but you have large numbers of mutant kids using nearby train stations and airports on every single school break. This alone should have tipped more observant members of Humanity First that there must be a mutant school in the area.

Dunwich and Berlin, to a lesser extent, get a lot of income from the school being there. So it is in their best interest to keep quiet about the school. Oddly enough the MCO probably helps keep it a secret too. Plus the State and US Governments.

also incidents like the powered crooks Jade took out in one of her stories. Dunwich residents telling the crooks they are in trouble when a student shows up.

This doesn't stop there from being some H1 members nearby, just really limits their impact.
and one of Phase's stories has Phase subborn an H1 sponsored security member to get copies of the reports he sends so Phase can provide them to security.

Valentine wrote: Dunwich and Berlin, to a lesser extent, get a lot of income from the school being there. So it is in their best interest to keep quiet about the school. Oddly enough the MCO probably helps keep it a secret too. Plus the State and US Governments.

When (if) Absinth becomes Canon this could get interesting as that story establishes that not only is there an H1 chapter in Berlin but an MCO agent is actually feeding them information.