Question Whateley and Teen Pregnancy.

Why researching for my OC story, I was wondering what sort of policies and issues would arise if a pregnant teen were either to enroll in Whateley or be discovered to be pregnant after enrollment, or a current student were to become pregnant. We have many sexually active characters, and birth control isn't 100% effective.
I don't think expulsion would occur in the case of a student becoming pregnant while enrolled, but the no relations clause is in the books, so maybe?

If a student were found to be pregnant, and were to remain in school, there would certainly HAVE to be special provisions made. they certainly would ned to be removed from potentially hazardous classes, and placed in a curriculum of "safe classes". No Martial Arts or bio-divisor studies, for example. classes with potential but slight risk, would certainly need extensive monitoring,

A Pacifist armband and/or section 33 designation would certainly be applied, and maybe even a general assembly with Carson laying down the law that any actions towards said student would result in automatic expulsion?


So, everyone... your thoughts or opinions?

Students can't become pregnant while being at Whateley but yes they could be pregnant before enrolling or while outside of the school (I assume the spell concerns the school's ground itself and not the students).

I think the subject of pregnancy and how the school would deal with it has been discussed (I mean further than just the WoG about the spell) but I will have to search a little more.

edit : I have found a relevant thread : http://whateleyacademy.net/index.php/forum/the-workshop/955-how-would-whateley-handle-a-pregnant-student?limitstart=0

Boys of summer:

Thank you for the link, I'm reading through it now.

I can neither confirm nor deny whether the cabal has or has not had any discussions of this situation involving or not involving a current or future student at Whateley.

In other words, maybe, and maybe not.

elrodw wrote: I can neither confirm nor deny whether the cabal has or has not had any discussions of this situation involving or not involving a current or future student at Whateley.

In other words, maybe, and maybe not.

you gave yourself a clever little ...loophole(?)... there, answering, but yet not answering... ?

Rose Bunny wrote: We have many sexually active characters, and birth control isn't 100% effective.
I don't think expulsion would occur in the case of a student becoming pregnant while enrolled, but the no relations clause is in the books, so maybe?

Even the nondisclosure compulsion spell Bella's so proud of has been shown to not be 100% in Gen2. (In the case of Brita Bauman, of the Amazons)

Rule of the Essential Flaw: Even Nothing isn't perfect, but you could get lucky, or not.
Law of Balance: Keep pushing your luck - Murphy's still giggling.
Law of Cyclicality: And the backlash will be glorious when it comes.

'No relations' can't cover off-campus summer breaks. So maybe if there is a non-disclosed campus-wide 'no pregnancies' spell, there could also be a small number of magically-induced miscarriages each fall.

The answer is that they've basically been avoiding the issue by having nobody get pregnant and have no plans to address it in detail, but i suspect that, were it under carson, a student who was pregnant before enrollment would be accepted (they haven't broken any rules). Odds are, unless they decide to introduce a pregnant character (or promote one to canon) it own't be strenuously addressed.

Iwasforger03 wrote: Odds are, unless they decide to introduce a pregnant character (or promote one to canon) it own't be strenuously addressed.

Well ....

I haven't read any of Gen 2, as I don't want to see scenarios of "we know X is alive so nothing happens to them in Gen 1"....
I don't think there would be a magical miscarriage effect because that'd just be cruel and unusual punishment. Furthermore, such a spell would be too far reaching and potentially devastating.
Using examples from the Gen 1 populous, if in her senior year, Lanie were to become pregnant towards the end of her school year and such a spell took effect, it would cause the termination of a pregnancy (presumably) from sex with her fiancé, Cody, that would not culminate in the birth of children until AFTER her graduation. Further the spell would be a " blanket result" spell, imagine if a student unwillingly became pregnant, but decided to keep said child, only to have the spell abort it. That would be devastating. Further add in self impregnation accidents. Paige Donner has been revealed as having the potential to self-impregnate. Imagine if she developed an immunity to the drugs they use to keep that from happening, she could very well develop a condition where she routinely and repeatedly had miscarriages.

Rose Bunny wrote: I haven't read any of Gen 2, as I don't want to see scenarios of "we know X is alive so nothing happens to them in Gen 1"....
I don't think there would be a magical miscarriage effect because that'd just be cruel and unusual punishment. Furthermore, such a spell would be too far reaching and potentially devastating.
Using examples from the Gen 1 populous, if in her senior year, Lanie were to become pregnant towards the end of her school year and such a spell took effect, it would cause the termination of a pregnancy (presumably) from sex with her fiancé, Cody, that would not culminate in the birth of children until AFTER her graduation. Further the spell would be a " blanket result" spell, imagine if a student unwillingly became pregnant, but decided to keep said child, only to have the spell abort it. That would be devastating. Further add in self impregnation accidents. Paige Donner has been revealed as having the potential to self-impregnate. Imagine if she developed an immunity to the drugs they use to keep that from happening, she could very well develop a condition where she routinely and repeatedly had miscarriages.

It could just prevent conception? It doesn't need to be a abortifecent, it just needs to be a contraceptive.

Of course we all know the most effective preventative available...

Carson would hold an assembly and walk out on stage and firmly say "If any student of Whateley becomes pregnant and bares a child while enrolled, if said child is housed here, this will be your designated babysitter"

points at Jade

Malady wrote:
It could just prevent conception? It doesn't need to be a abortifecent, it just needs to be a contraceptive.

I was replying to what Forger said, but while I was typing the tldr, a couple other posters snuck in.

Rose Bunny wrote: Of course we all know the most effective preventative available...

Carson would hold an assembly and walk out on stage and firmly say "If any student of Whateley becomes pregnant and bares child while enrolled, if said child is housed here, this will be your designated babysitter"

points at Jade

Exemplars.

Exemplar teenagers.

They will have sex, lot of sex, no matter how forbidden it's supposed to be, and they are not going to be careful (enough) despite the consequences.

Rose Bunny wrote: I haven't read any of Gen 2, as I don't want to see scenarios of "we know X is alive so nothing happens to them in Gen 1"....

It was an example of a spell being cast that did in fact fail.

Rose Bunny wrote: Using examples from the Gen 1 populous, if in her senior year, Lanie were to become pregnant towards the end of her school year and such a spell took effect, it would cause the termination of a pregnancy (presumably) from sex with her fiancé, Cody, that would not culminate in the birth of children until AFTER her graduation.

So? Would it be ethical? Not entirely*. Potentially devastating? Possibly. But, that doesn't stop a spell from working in the Whateley Universe.



* There's a legitimate question as to whether it would be medically ethical to allow any pregnancy started on campus to be carried to full term. Parts of the school grounds are the mystical equivalent of a Superfund site raised to the nth power.

Esar wrote:

Rose Bunny wrote: Of course we all know the most effective preventative available...

Carson would hold an assembly and walk out on stage and firmly say "If any student of Whateley becomes pregnant and bares child while enrolled, if said child is housed here, this will be your designated babysitter"

points at Jade

Exemplars.

Exemplar teenagers.

They will have sex, lot of sex, no matter how forbidden it's supposed to be, and they are not going to be careful (enough) despite the consequences.

You mean Jade babysitting isn't scary enough to scare you into celibacy? You are made of sterner stuff than I.

Rose Bunny wrote: You mean Jade babysitting isn't scary enough to scare you into celibacy? You are made of sterner stuff than I.

By the way, if you have not read it, it might be interesting : Sara's Little Purple Book

Esar wrote:

Rose Bunny wrote: You mean Jade babysitting isn't scary enough to scare you into celibacy? You are made of sterner stuff than I.

By the way, if you have not read it, it might be interesting : Sara's Little Purple Book

Note how it doesn't mention Luck Warpers.

Bad Idea: Clover and Magpie hook up and have a kid accidentally due to Bad Luck Storm from Clover, breaking condoms or something.

Jinx basically causing the above, to someone else...

There's 5+ Luck Warpers at Whateley. Set things up right, or wrong, and you could break the contraception spell and have a kid / pregnancy?

I just read a few days ago about a newly discovered chemical effect that keeps sperm cells from being able to penetrate the ovum. Where was it... ah, here .
Consider the possibility that a form of this, say, in a devise or magical form, is added to the Crystal Hall food... since it's not based on hormones, it might be pretty safe to use in this way.

I wouldn't say section 33.

But I bet there's a similarly worded section to cover ANY pregnant person on campus, not just the students.

Actually, that was the cause of the school principle belting me into a locker back in high school.

My cousin and I were mucking around while waiting to enter a classroom and we managed to jostle a pregnant teacher.
Next thing I know I'm bouncing off of a locker and Miss Borchman (Basher to us students) is whacking my cousin around the head.

null0trooper wrote: 'No relations' can't cover off-campus summer breaks. So maybe if there is a non-disclosed campus-wide 'no pregnancies' spell, there could also be a small number of magically-induced miscarriages each fall.

Oh hell no.

The ramifications of having a spell like this, and then it being found out it exists, are enough to destroy Whateley, not figuratively, but actually and for real.

First, this is basically forced abortions. No matter where you stand on the 'Pro Life' debate, one thing all sides agree on is forced abortions are wrong. If it became known that Whateley had a spell like this active, the support that keeps the school running will evaporate overnight. Students would be pulled. Bequeathes would be cancelled, and lawsuits by the bucket load would arrive to suck what ever money is left out of the school.

Second, how would you prevent visitors being affected? Basically once this spell is known, anybody who visited, taught or attended Whateley and subsequently had a miscarriage would be lining up to sue them, and it would be impossible to prove the spell didn't cause the miscarriage.

This is a can of worms no sane anybody would touch.

Phoenix Spiritus wrote: Second, how would you prevent visitors being affected? Basically once this spell is known, anybody who visited, taught or attended Whateley and subsequently had a miscarriage would be lining up to sue them, and it would be impossible to prove the spell didn't cause the miscarriage.

This is a can of worms no sane anybody would touch.

Imagine if Donna dropped by to see if there were any news on Sara's whereabouts....

... come to think about it, it seems to me that Sara's disappearance has kinda faded from priority. If not Priority, at least from the forefront, We've seen Hippolyta casual and stogie chomping... actually, other than allusions to Paige being isolated to her room, we haven't seen mention of how Sara's pack is responding lately.
And who is supplying Jet with nookie-charge?

How about teachers and staff? And spouses of said people? Delivery people?

Well I gues we'll all find out soon enough what the relevant policies and loopholes are.

konzill wrote: Well I gues we'll all find out soon enough what the relevant policies and loopholes are.

Loopholes?

Yeah. People had been doing the math regarding the age of Loophole's kids in Gen2, and got a result that implied that Loophole got pregnant while still a student at Whateley.

HOWEVER, this whole thing may have already been Jossed . Specifically, ElrodW's Would the Last One Out Please Turn Out the Lights... indicates a later date for Loophole's pregnancy.

Sir Lee wrote: Yeah. People had been doing the math regarding the age of Loophole's kids in Gen2, and got a result that implied that Loophole got pregnant while still a student at Whateley.

HOWEVER, this whole thing may have already been Jossed . Specifically, ElrodW's Would the Last One Out Please Turn Out the Lights... indicates a later date for Loophole's pregnancy.

I haven't read into Gen 2, since I don't want spoilers of characters from Gen 1... is there anything that says the kids in that story are her firstborn children?

and on the subject of teen parents I was looking through Insanity Prerequisite, and Donna received Sara's child sometime between October 21st and 26th 2006, as some of the Gen 1 stories are reaching September 2007, I have to wonder what the gestation period for a Great Old One child is.

I don't even seem to recall who Donna is or that Sara has a kid... I must be missing a story or my mind, either is probable.

Iwasforger03 wrote: I don't even seem to recall who Donna is or that Sara has a kid... I must be missing a story or my mind, either is probable.

Donna Bell, Sara's guardian. They sorta did the deed in Insanity Prerequisite, and that's where the SaraSpawn was implanted:

Sara felt something inside her move, breaking away from a pocket of flesh deep within her hips, squeezing it’s way down the thick member that plunged into Donna’s eager depths. Instincts took over, relief washing through her as the bulge travelled down the tentacle, distending the woman’s labia before squirting deep inside, taking residence in her womb. She felt Donna’s sigh of contentment more than she heard it, a preternatural calm descending over her.

They lay together, entwined, for the rest of the night, pressing close together as if to ward off the rest of the world around them. Donna caressed the slight swell of her abdomen with reverent awe as if she could feel the egg within gestating inside.

No words were shared. None were needed.

Kristin Darken wrote:

Rose Bunny wrote: I have to wonder what the gestation period for a Great Old One child is.

The square root of -42 years.

Don't make me math, I have Dyscalculia.

You can't get the square root of a negative number without using imaginary maths.

i can be very helpful in working it out.

Kristin Darken wrote: One especially 'easy' way to do it would be a variation on the World spell on the Sidhe that causes their cast off tissue... skin cells, nails, hair, blood, etc... to dissolve into component molecules to protect them from outside magick. It would just have to work on semen... any wrigglers outside of the body are no longer part of their originating body and are rendered incapable of causing a pregnancy. It has the Law required flaws - sex inside a strong enough warding circle would be protected from the effects of the active magic. It would apply to a limited area (or it would have ecological repercussions - unless designed to target humans only, which might run the risk of missing some mutants) and would only work if the spell was applicable on the male during ejaculation. So it wouldn't abort a fertilized egg or anything like that.

So, if that's how it works, then the question becomes "Who has sex inside warding circles??"

People who REALLY want that baby or REALLY don't want to get caught by scrying/detecton/etc... and just happen to block out the spell keeping pregnancy from being an issue.

Malady wrote: So, if that's how it works, then the question becomes "Who has sex inside warding circles??"

You mean you don't?

Iwasforger03 wrote: People who REALLY want that baby or REALLY don't want to get caught by scrying/detecton/etc... and just happen to block out the spell keeping pregnancy from being an issue.

Well, with my Clover + Magpie idea... They might not want Pally looking in. This makes enough sense that if I wanted to, I could do it, especially given their power boost from Siblings & Savages...

Abortion would be not happening, if I really wanted to do a teen preg story... Then I'd need to figure out a name for their kid, if it's a girl or a boy...

Agh. Things just form so naturally... But I don't want to do this story... (Why? 'Cause I still think of Clover as a little kid. Ugh.)... Might Clover be jealous of Magpie's orange fem!clone?? ... Not thinking about this. No...

null0trooper wrote:

Malady wrote: So, if that's how it works, then the question becomes "Who has sex inside warding circles??"

You mean you don't?

... Now I'm thinking of Dresden Files and Susan drinking that lust potion inside that circle...

... Magpie's a Dresden Expy... Replicating that would make so much sense... Agh!

Malady wrote:

Kristin Darken wrote: One especially 'easy' way to do it would be a variation on the World spell on the Sidhe that causes their cast off tissue... skin cells, nails, hair, blood, etc... to dissolve into component molecules to protect them from outside magick. It would just have to work on semen... any wrigglers outside of the body are no longer part of their originating body and are rendered incapable of causing a pregnancy. It has the Law required flaws - sex inside a strong enough warding circle would be protected from the effects of the active magic. It would apply to a limited area (or it would have ecological repercussions - unless designed to target humans only, which might run the risk of missing some mutants) and would only work if the spell was applicable on the male during ejaculation. So it wouldn't abort a fertilized egg or anything like that.

So, if that's how it works, then the question becomes "Who has sex inside warding circles??"

Morgana looks at you funny...

Still gotta feel sorry for Donna, closing in on a year, and she hasn't popped yet, plus her baby daddy or momma... it's confusing... is nowhere to be found.

Rose Bunny wrote: Still gotta feel sorry for Donna, closing in on a year, and she hasn't popped yet, plus her baby daddy or momma... it's confusing... is nowhere to be found.

Gothmog will be keeping an eye on her.

He always wants to make sure that the great-grand-things are ok...

Mister D wrote: Gothmog will be keeping an eye on her.

He always wants to make sure that the great-grand-things are ok...

they'd be regular grandthings, since Sara is the parent.