Question The Jerkass Superheroes - All small timers?

The title seems self explanatory: Are the jerkass "superheroes" like Powerhouse, Jack Rabbit, T-rex, Crimson Kid, and others with their attitude generally almost all small time heroes who never get onto the big teams?

That certainly feels like the case thus far. I'm struggling to think of a shown team of super heroes (an actual team, not a meeting house thing like the freelancers) who actually had jerkass heroes in it just for the fame, glory, and to beat up people and get away with it, outside of that team in California with the corporate sponsors, or possibly Paladin and Adonis.

So do we have a skewed sample because of our limited contact with super teams, or is it genuinely the case that most of the jerkass, selfish guys who get into heroics for the wrong reasons don't really make it big on super teams?

Adonis was on the Liberty League Team.

And he's noted as one of my exceptions, but I'm also unclear as to whether he fits the group I'm trying to describe. He's obviously got issues regarding his "I'm amazing" aura he uses on the ladies, but I don't have any recollection of it being mentioned he was genuinely in superheroics for all the wrong reasons, just that he ALSO liked the ladies. So I'm not sure if he fits, but if he does, I did mark him as an exception.

Not at all. If you like procedural, feel free to dive into the smarmy and unlikable past of the Former Empire City Guardsman Redwing in Crime and Chaos...

Not everyone has an Uncle Ben.

Yeah, some people get into things for purely the wrong reasons. I remember a news article about a nurse that would endanger patients, so that they could save them and be a hero. People get into all sorts of professions for the wrong reason, and I'm sure superhero has many. For everyone that becomes a hero to wright wrongs, or help people, there are those that do it out of some sick sense of ego or desire for fame and fortune.

It is a well known phenomena that many arsonists are now or previously have been fire fighters....

Iwasforger03 wrote: The title seems self explanatory: Are the jerkass "superheroes" like Powerhouse, Jack Rabbit, T-rex, Crimson Kid, and others with their attitude generally almost all small time heroes who never get onto the big teams?

That certainly feels like the case thus far. I'm struggling to think of a shown team of super heroes (an actual team, not a meeting house thing like the freelancers) who actually had jerkass heroes in it just for the fame, glory, and to beat up people and get away with it, outside of that team in California with the corporate sponsors, or possibly Paladin and Adonis.

So do we have a skewed sample because of our limited contact with super teams, or is it genuinely the case that most of the jerkass, selfish guys who get into heroics for the wrong reasons don't really make it big on super teams?

Adonis was mentioned... there's also Goldstar who's a member in poor standing of SPECTRUM ... at least, I suspect, until they can figure out how to scrape him from the bottom of their shoes.

You seem to have answered your own question in the opening post. Yes, we have seen major heroes who are in it for an excuse to be thugs.

Alright, so some of them do make it onto major teams.

I would expect that most major teams that have been auditioning new members for a while have made mistakes and accepted someone who shouldn't have been accepted at some point. The reasons for this are various and sundry -- SPECTRUM made a mistake with Goldstar, the Empire City Guard has erred with Red Wing (as E.E. mentioned, it has been a while since I read the story, but if memory serves well he would fit right in with the current crop of people being tarred and feathered on national news), with Adaptor (who was accepted as a form of appeasement to H1! -- it did not end well) and, well, Paladin isn't looking that good after the kerfuffle with Jadis, Jobe & co. Other teams probably stepped on it on occasion.

Liberty League had or has a few.

Adonis, Super Star, and arguably Ginormous (though she got better).

El Monte Knight, he's been mentioned but not seen. He's strong enough to hold off the Californian teams. Captain Courage has also been mentioned.

And what about "Iron Mike"?

He's not a hero, or a villain.

It's just New York!.

In Boston we see Lamplighter(?) I think that is his nom-de-guere? Who is a grade F arse.

Not to sound stereotypical or anything... But as a male member of the species and having worked with males over the years, I feel fairly confident in saying that there is a large percentage of the male population that do things for reasons other than the "right reasons". The most common reasons I recall were things like wanting money, sex or to just stroke their ego. Why should superheroes be any different? Now, I am also sure that most groups would have some sort of vetting process for the purposes of weeding out the "undesirables", but at the same time I would also suspect that many groups feel they can change the person or feel that it is better to have them in the group where they can better keep an eye on them as well.

That being said. I think most reputable groups would not take or keep a major grade arse unless they had something to offer that the team can't do without. Sort of like how the best athletes on a team can often get away with more violations than say the 4th string lineman. But the guy that is a turd and doesn't offer something special? He isn't going to last long on a major and reputable team if he ever even makes it onto the team in the first place.

I'm fully aware that there are bad heroes.

I was merely trying to asertain how off base I was with a conception that bad heroes mostly didn't make it onto Superhero Teams.

I was quite off base.

Well, sure, like being, say, a rock star. Many people got into the life because of the money and the chicks (or, in some cases, the boys). But they don't have to be assholes about it.
You can enjoy the fact that there are groupies literally begging to sleep with you without, you know, being a dick. You don't have to marry them, but you can be nice about it, like actually talking to them in the morning before calling them a cab.
You may be doing oodles of money, but you can still put effort into your work (Bruce Springsteen comes to mind as someone who makes sure people who come to his shows get their money's worth).

Iwasforger03 wrote: I'm fully aware that there are bad heroes.

I was merely trying to asertain how off base I was with a conception that bad heroes mostly didn't make it onto Superhero Teams.

I was quite off base.

I think you are onto something. Certainly a few bad apples will make it onto various teams; but the very concept of a team will make them eventually (usually) self eliminate.

MM2ss wrote: Not to sound stereotypical or anything... But as a male member of the species and having worked with males over the years, I feel fairly confident in saying that there is a large percentage of the male population that do things for reasons other than the "right reasons". The most common reasons I recall were things like wanting money, sex or to just stroke their ego. Why should superheroes be any different? Now, I am also sure that most groups would have some sort of vetting process for the purposes of weeding out the "undesirables", but at the same time I would also suspect that many groups feel they can change the person or feel that it is better to have them in the group where they can better keep an eye on them as well.

That being said. I think most reputable groups would not take or keep a major grade arse unless they had something to offer that the team can't do without. Sort of like how the best athletes on a team can often get away with more violations than say the 4th string lineman. But the guy that is a turd and doesn't offer something special? He isn't going to last long on a major and reputable team if he ever even makes it onto the team in the first place.

To be honest, I find this rather sexist, as it says its the male members who do things for the 'wrong' reasons, the implication being that the female members dont.
I strongly disagree with this.
Yes, some of the REASONS a female member will act 'badly' are different, but that most certainly doesn't mean they don't exist.

I have more experience with the male members of the species. was on submarines back when they were all male. I don't like to speak on matters of which I lack personal experience or knowledge to accompany the theory. Though if you prefer I can add in the old training manual disclaimer of "where he or she is used either gender is intended".

Astrodragon wrote: To be honest, I find this rather sexist, as it says its the male members who do things for the 'wrong' reasons, the implication being that the female members dont.
I strongly disagree with this.
Yes, some of the REASONS a female member will act 'badly' are different, but that most certainly doesn't mean they don't exist.

I agree. If you've never met women who are far more ruthless professionally than their male co-workers, or catty and utter vicious, I must regretfully state that you need to get out more.

Unbridled ambition is mutually exclusive from gender.

Men can be gossipy hens. Women can be ruthless tyrants who revel, even bask, in putting their peers down.

My apologies.

I seem to have defaulted to males because my brain didn't come up with any women, despite my intense dislike of Superstar or whatever her name was.

I wouldn't say that there aren't any Jerkass Heroes in teams. In fact, Futzy Wutzy, the Polar Bear who pulled on Imp's tail was kind of a jerkass, and still on a team. More of a mercenary team, but still, it is possible.

But there is a lot of factors that come into play.

The first part is that some teams will discipline or let go some of their jerkass members if needed. If those jerk tendencies pop out, especially out in public, then this will be a whole lot of bad press for groups who really need to get good publicity to get the job done, funded, and public trust going. If you don't reign that in, the whole team may suffer for it.

That's not to say that some team won't keep those members in though. It's possible the whole team could share their views, and that it's all okay. They might all be good pals, and think the is just having harmless fun (even if it really isn't). There's also the fact that as much as we read and see a lot of mutants around, the numbers are still mighty limited. You might not be able to find a hero with a specific type of power to fill your roster. So in order to keep the team alive, and do the job, you may have to settle with the people you have.

On the flip side?

It'd be a whole lot easier for a bad hero to act alone. They wouldn't be supervised, no one would be managing them, they could be just working the streets, and in the shadows, where no one would watch them. It's probably how a hero like Jack Rabbit would operate, yet still have police support.

I can even imagine a hero that used to be part of a team, unable to tame their more savage instincts, and turning out solo instead. Things can change.

It is also possible though, that they might get turned into villains at a later date if things escalate. Then they wouldn't be heroes anymore.

But all this? It means there's no absolute. Reasons change, situations change, people are different, and perspective is everything.