Question Villain-Hero Teacher ratio at Whateley...

The Villain-Hero ratio of the teachers at Whateley...

Does it lean more towards villain?

And I mean the self-professed alignment, so Jerkass Heroes are still Heroes, for this.

And actual teachers, too, so no House parents, security, administration, etc.

Malady wrote: The Villain-Hero ratio of the teachers at Whateley...

Does it lean more towards villain?

And I mean the self-professed alignment, so Jerkass Heroes are still Heroes, for this.

And actual teachers, too, so no House parents, security, administration, etc.

I think its approximately 1:1

It's unclear, we have just too few samples, because many of the teacher are in the "undeclared" camp (and quite a few are "do not apply" because they were neither in their previous lives).
But let me see how many I can remember...
Villains: Melvin Donner, Imp, Lillian Dennon, Circe (if you go by Odysseus' opinion, anyway)
Heroes: Darren Englund, Dr. Yablonski, Earth Mother, Langley Paulson, Elizabeth Carson

Sir Lee wrote: It's unclear, we have just too few samples, because many of the teacher are in the "undeclared" camp (and quite a few are "do not apply" because they were neither in their previous lives).
But let me see how many I can remember...
Villains: Melvin Donner, Imp, Lillian Dennon, Circe (if you go by Odysseus' opinion, anyway)
Heroes: Darren Englund, Dr. Yablonski, Earth Mother, Langley Paulson, Elizabeth Carson

Villains: Harford (technically grey hat, but strictly speaking, if you aren't a white hat hacker, you have broken the law).
Heroes: Barney (technically), Tabby Cat,

mhalpern wrote:

Sir Lee wrote: It's unclear, we have just too few samples, because many of the teacher are in the "undeclared" camp (and quite a few are "do not apply" because they were neither in their previous lives).
But let me see how many I can remember...
Villains: Melvin Donner, Imp, Lillian Dennon, Circe (if you go by Odysseus' opinion, anyway)
Heroes: Darren Englund, Dr. Yablonski, Earth Mother, Langley Paulson, Elizabeth Carson

Villains: Harford (technically grey hat, but strictly speaking, if you aren't a white hat hacker, you have broken the law).
Heroes: Barney (technically), Tabby Cat,

Is Hartford a teacher? Or is she only admin?
Tabby Cat is only teaching special seminars right now...

Anne wrote: Is Hartford a teacher? Or is she only admin?

When she isn't advising Cyber-Kitty, mentoring the Masterminds, and praying for the Alphas to get a clue, one of her principal jobs is to provide Life Lessons to the students.

There's also Mrs. Ryan we dont know what she normally teaches, but she was Lady Hydra

Ms. Hartford also teaches Cyberkitty, La Tres Amigas.

Do Heckle and Jeckle count as heroes or villains?

Cecelia Rogers had a short lived hero career, I believe.

How do former cops count, there are several teaching?

Government Agents? Sir William Wallace?

Mrs. Ryan teaches Costume Shop.

To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Astrodragon wrote: To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Except Phase.

Valentine wrote: Government Agents? Sir William Wallace?

That can be a huge gray area, as the goals (and the laws under which they operate) of each agency vary. The Tennessee Valley Authority, Bureau of Indian Affairs, and the US Environmental Protection Agency have each been castigated as the disciples of evil.

Folks like Sir Wallace Westmont, working in intelligence/espionage may end up participating in some appalling acts, ostensibly to save or preserve lives. It depends on whether those lives matter to the persons judging them, as to whether they are they are villains or heroes.

Valentine wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Except Phase.

Not just phase.

Every student who values the special classes from Winter Term.

That's probably the point where the students who would understand what's being offered, really start to take things seriously.

Maybe this could be better emphasized in the Whateley Handbook?

(Maybe it is. We've all seen numerous examples of people not reading the manual... )

Sir Lee wrote: It's unclear, we have just too few samples, because many of the teacher are in the "undeclared" camp (and quite a few are "do not apply" because they were neither in their previous lives).
But let me see how many I can remember...
Villains: Melvin Donner, Imp, Lillian Dennon, Circe (if you go by Odysseus' opinion, anyway)
Heroes: Darren Englund, Dr. Yablonski, Earth Mother, Langley Paulson, Elizabeth Carson

Englund and Circe, like Hartford, could stand in both categories.

Englund has been defined as a supporting character in many student-focused tales, and was later fleshed out in his origin story. His single-minded focus against the GOO's stands out as putting him on the Hero track, but his narrow-minded focus, whilst being one of his strengths, also happens to be his main weakness, exhibiting as a lack of flexibility, in the Sara stories.
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Hartford wears both Black-Hat, Grey-Hat, and, White-Hat persona's when she's working, but her overall aim is the survival of the human species, so would have to be viewed in the more-Darwinian sense of struggle-for-survival, not just for our species, but for the supporting ecology, which is the biological infrastructure that allows us to survive.

Hartford is someone who has had to face the "Kill 10 to save 100" choice, and is still able to face herself in the mirror in the morning. It also makes sense that her peers & sparring partners, are the likes of Lady Astarte, Lord Paramount, Journeyman, Louis Gentz, Dr. Diabolik, The Palm, Erik Mahren - an ex-DragonSlayer, Charles Lodgeman - one of the original Mystic Six, and, the other characters not-yet-written-about who are working in international-league levels of skill.

She may be performing the functions of a school administrator, but that's just her bread-and-butter gig. Her real professional work takes place all over the planet, as well as the near-lunar orbital systems, as well as, providing logistical support/cover for people doing inter-dimensional work.

( I would not be surprised at Hartford being a possible Red-Monk/White-Monk operative within the Whateley staff. )

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Circe is another interesting character. She will have a perspective that stretches beyond the perspective of someone who has a baseline lifespan. Not to mention a lady's age, but she has to be over 3000 years old, at least.

Yes, from the point-of-view of the PR department used by Odyseuss, she was an Antagonist in one of his adventures, but the story is always written with the Patron in mind - if the bard wants to get paid, so it's another version of the Unreliable Narrator problem.

You could re-interpret that story as being about a witch living on her own, and having to defend her home from a group of Greek pirates, using guile and magic. Plot Twist: She wasn't defeated. Odysseus won, but it was planned. She'd already been meaning to dump that identity, and go pretend to be someone else for another human lifetime, like she's been doing for however long she's been alive.

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Another way to interpret Circe's longer motivations, is to look at her functionality within the current Whateley faculty, and compare it with her past teaching methods. In Greece, they tended to use the apprentice-journeyman-master teaching method of passing skills on, both for mundane skills and for magical skills. Her apprentices have all died horribly and she has the reputation of only being someone that you would want to learn from if you're really in trouble.

I could see her being made interested in the opportunity of teaching at the Magic Arts dept. of Whateley, as her taking part in the foundation of a new teaching system for magic. Given Circe's lifespan, her saying yes, i'll try this out for a century, and see if this works, and her keeping an eye on the students for someone interesting to teach, and to learn from. Example: Phase.

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Melvin Donner is another example of a Red-Carder, who was caught, becoming a more complete human being, by having to act as In Loco Parentis, for the students.

Note the "Victorian Dad" mode of behaviour when he was talking with Cody, and the talk that he had with one of Whateley's counsellor's afterwards.

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Even though they are people who are reacting to the situations that they have found themselves in, and the change in perspective that having the powers that they possess gives them, the most interesting characters don't fit into the simple slots, but are instead the most demonstrably human.

Mister D wrote:

Valentine wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Except Phase.

Not just phase.

Every student who values the special classes from Winter Term.

That's probably the point where the students who would understand what's being offered, really start to take things seriously.

Maybe this could be better emphasized in the Whateley Handbook?

(Maybe it is. We've all seen numerous examples of people not reading the manual... )

A large percentage of those students are probably retaking classes they failed, required classes, or an ESL class.

Astrodragon wrote: To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Well, to her students Imp is a hero

Erianaiel wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Well, to her students Imp is a hero

I don't think Phase is convinced of that.

null0trooper wrote:

Erianaiel wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Well, to her students Imp is a hero

I don't think Phase is convinced of that.

Phase is probably neutral about her sneaking into his former home.

mhalpern wrote:

null0trooper wrote:

Erianaiel wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Well, to her students Imp is a hero

I don't think Phase is convinced of that.

Phase is probably neutral about her sneaking into his former home.

It wasn't his home, but his father's office. All she took was a bottle of liquor.

Valentine wrote:

mhalpern wrote:

null0trooper wrote:

Erianaiel wrote:

Astrodragon wrote: To the students, aren't all the teachers villains?

Well, to her students Imp is a hero

I don't think Phase is convinced of that.

Phase is probably neutral about her sneaking into his former home.

It wasn't his home, but his father's office. All she took was a bottle of liquor.

An extremely well aged bottle of liquor