Question The Chakan prophesy
- Erianaiel
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Topic Author
The False Friend is neither Good nor Kind
Lamb’s Blood is the tightest chain
The Anvil greets the Hammer’s kiss
White Mask fall in a twist of mind
Black Storm with a will to rain
Jailer, Jailed, all a-twist
Laughing harriers seek the burning hind
Weeping the hand cannot refrain
Zulu warriors in the mist
Cruel fire burns the chains that bind
Double Terror, Triple Bliss
The Green Key you will find
So, what do we know from the hints scattered throughout the stories since, and what can we infer?
The first line may refer to David Goodkind. We know for certain that Nimbus did something to him that was the culmination of what he did to Puppet and Phase. The odd thing here is that Nimbus monologued about being at a tight deadline and that he had only a short time frame to put in motion whatever he had in mind and that the mutification (?) of David Goodkind was a critical first step in that.
Lamb's Blood could refer to innocence and / or sacrifice of such. Whether that would be Nimbus using it to bind the heroes or how he is finally defeated remains to be seen. Assuming the meaning is not more metaphorical of course
White Mask, probably refers to heroes in general (the white mask / black mask false dichotomy that superhero stories are rife with). If to be taken literal it could be terrible news about Phase ...
The burning hind could refer to celtic (i.e. Sidhe in the whateleyverse) lore, or it could refer to a certain assistant headmistress we all love to loathe. Hunting mythological deer never ended well for the humans doing so in celtic lore, but it often did not end well for the hind or stag either. A bit of a greek tragedy here where humans in their arrogance destroyed something and were punished for it by the gods and or forces of nature.
Zulu stands for the letter Z (rather I think than for the literal Zulu warriors), which is often short for Zero. That is why the Greenwhich meridian gets prefixed with Z in the UTC. It also can be milspeak for the zero hour, or midnight, in a 24 hour clock. And for the moment the countdown runs out and the operation starts or the, well, it involves a fan. The way Nacht the nigh omniscient demi godess addressed her note to Nacht the grumpy and occasionally recreationally terrifying bad seed, strongly suggests that we should look at that last interpretantion. "Do not upon until Zero Hour (and things are blowing up all around you)".
Any other informed, wild or hilarous speculations?
And what is the Green Key a metaphor for? Or alternatively, what metaphorical lock requires a green key?
- CrazyMinh
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You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .
You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed
- CrazyMinh
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Seriously, it's looking like this halloween or sometime around it will be the critical point in Gen 1's story. I'm betting that the fact that halloween is a occult day will play into that...
It looking like the next year's going to see a lot of events happening in the WU.
You can find my stories at Fanfiction.net here .
You can also check out my fanfiction guest riffs at Library of the Dammed
- null0trooper
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The False Friend is neither Good nor Kind: I.e., Ayla is not the snake in the grass you're looking for, here at the Rattlesnake Roundup Jamboree!
Lamb’s Blood is the tightest chain: Just ask Rev. Englund, Angel, or Seraphim. There are even ways of looking at it such that Jade or Lady Astarte fit.
The Anvil greets the Hammer’s kiss: Funny thing about anvils, they're not supposed to be struck directly by hammers. Folder and Eldritch are also good examples of what happens when a project slips out of the tongs right as the hammer's coming down.
White Mask fall in a twist of mind: On the bright side, this predates Porcelain's introduction. On the darker side, that doesn't mean much. There are a few characters who've worn masks since Day One.
Black Storm with a will to rain: Matches some of the foreshadowing for Tempest.
Jailer, Jailed, all a-twist: One could argue for Chief Delarose being the Jailer, or that the Roxbury jailbreak fits, or that there's more to come from Quickdraw, Make, and/or Overclock. For more entertainment, it could even now be hinting about Carmilla's release.
Laughing harriers seek the burning hind: Sounds like a bunch of happy clowns to me.
Weeping the hand cannot refrain: No matter what is still meant to happen, this is a good synopsis of Bladedancer's life of late.
Zulu warriors in the mist: This could be the Spring Break event(s). But be careful what you wish for: although both sides lost a tenth of their people in the Battle of Rorke's Drift, the Zulu warriors lost.
Cruel fire burns the chains that bind: Cold iron and Fae usually don't go well together. Anyone willing to cover a bet that Nimbus can think up something nastier than what his protege's done?
Double Terror, Triple Bliss: I think we've seen this character.
The Green Key you will find: There's been no less than three candidates shown to date, depending on the metaphor you go with.
As one can see, there's a big issue with prophecy: it's easy to project one's own interests onto the message.
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
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- Kettlekorn
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So in other words, Zulu warriors refers to Z-Fighters. Called it!Erianaiel wrote: Zulu stands for the letter Z (rather I think than for the literal Zulu warriors),
Kryptonian chastity belts.Erianaiel wrote: And what is the Green Key a metaphor for? Or alternatively, what metaphorical lock requires a green key?
- E. E. Nalley
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The False Friend is neither Good nor Kind- Really, this is the most obvious! Ryan Johnson, the False Friend will ruin the Star Wars franchise! (Nailed years ahead!)
Lamb’s Blood is the tightest chain - Ok, this was a little obscure, but surely by now, everybody know how deep into kink Miley Cyrus is?
The Anvil greets the Hammer’s kiss - Come on, who did NOT see Bob Vila and Norm Abram as gay lovers?
White Mask fall in a twist of mind - White Mask? WHITE MASK?? Come on, are we the only Hayao Miyazaki fans on these boards?
Black Storm with a will to rain - Black Water Tactical making it rain bullets!
Jailer, Jailed, all a-twist - Sheriff Joe Arpaio pardoned(!)
Laughing harriers seek the burning hind - Let's all shed a tear and raise a glass for the wreck of the Cutty Sark
Weeping the hand cannot refrain - Your mother told you you'd go blind!
Zulu warriors in the mist - Ok, this just sounded cool and we put it in to mislead you
Cruel fire burns the chains that bind - You know the Cutty Sark was burned twice, right?
Double Terror, Triple Bliss - Wyatt you dog you!
The Green Key you will find - Well, do you want to know what's going on behind the green door or not?
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
- JG
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- Valentine
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Reverend Englaeiound.
Lamb’s Blood is the tightest chain
Jade's regen blood
The Anvil greets the Hammer’s kiss
Anvil getting his after the Folder incident
White Mask fall in a twist of mind
This is about Pucelle, Joan d'ork.
Black Storm with a will to rain
Jericho goes nuts and builds a weather control satellite.
Jailer, Jailed, all a-twist
Captain Tilley finds something the Necromancer left behind...
Laughing harriers seek the burning hind
This is in reference to the movie True Lies,
Weeping the hand cannot refrain
Foob takes up playing the Blues on piano.
Zulu warriors in the mist
A DBZ marathon because of bad weather, thanks Jericho.
Cruel fire burns the chains that bind
Jade, a rocket launcher, and a magic circle.
Double Terror, Triple Bliss
Kodiak, Lanie, Tansy, and Kayda.
The Green Key you will find
No one is interested in Earth Mother as the Gatekeeper.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- null0trooper
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Valentine wrote: White Mask fall in a twist of mind
This is about Pucelle, Joan d'ork.
I'd happily forgotten about her.
But does she have enough of a mind to count?
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
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- Valentine
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null0trooper wrote:
Valentine wrote: White Mask fall in a twist of mind
This is about Pucelle, Joan d'ork.
I'd happily forgotten about her.
But does she have enough of a mind to count?
She walks and talks. Even worms have brains.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- Mister D
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null0trooper wrote:
Valentine wrote: White Mask fall in a twist of mind
This is about Pucelle, Joan d'ork.
I'd happily forgotten about her.
But does she have enough of a mind to count?
Or is Pucelle the mask worn by Nimbus?
Measure Twice
- Malady
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Mister D wrote:
null0trooper wrote:
Valentine wrote: White Mask fall in a twist of mind
This is about Pucelle, Joan d'ork.
I'd happily forgotten about her.
But does she have enough of a mind to count?
Or is Pucelle the mask worn by Nimbus?
Nah, Pucelle is Abigail.
- null0trooper
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Malady wrote:
Mister D wrote:
null0trooper wrote:
Valentine wrote: White Mask fall in a twist of mind
This is about Pucelle, Joan d'ork.
I'd happily forgotten about her.
But does she have enough of a mind to count?
Or is Pucelle the mask worn by Nimbus?
Nah, Pucelle is Abigail.
I was thinking that Abigail used to be Abigail. Innocent blood? Not in a long, long time.
Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.
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- Astrodragon
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So he needs to be able to get them to do what he wants.
It's obvious, Nimbus is Buttons!
I love watching their innocent little faces smiling happily as they trip gaily down the garden path, before finding the pit with the rusty spikes.
- Rose Bunny
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side question... who would win in a dog-fight Buttons or Cookie?Astrodragon wrote: So it seems logical Nimbus would want the three little witches on his side.
So he needs to be able to get them to do what he wants.
It's obvious, Nimbus is Buttons!
High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
- Anne
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Adopt my story: here
Nowhereville discussion
- Erianaiel
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Topic Author
Not every line of the prophecy has to be about a person.
Odds are most of them do not, in keeping with the vague and interpretative meaning of prophecies.
There is also the question of what is the purpose of this prophecy? Generally speaking they are either a 'this will happen' or a 'you must jump through these obscure hoops to prevent this from happening'
Chaka was told the prophecy by the snake spirit (Loa?) of Damballah when the later was trying to convince her that she would need more support in the time to come because Team Kimba would attract too much trouble and she was not in the same power class to survive (or at least get through unscathed). When elephants dance the ants aren't happy was his quote, suggesting that Chaka was one of the ants not an Team Kimba elephant.
This strongly suggests we have to see the prophecy as a 'this will happen' and not as a 'this you must do' one. Of course there are a couple of lines in it that favour the second intent (finding a key, regardless of colour, generally suggests it is a solution to something not the problem. The lamb's blood line similarly suggests a solution though that can be interpreted to work both for and against somebody without having more information.
The other question is who is the opponent that this prophecy speaks of. There are two candidates (three if the less and less likely interpretation that Hekate's Master is somebody else than both NImbus and The Bastard turns out to be true after all).
If it is about The Bastard then things get further complicated by the fact that he (it?) is tied to Fey and the SIdhe, but Kayda has taken over her role and the attack is no longer personal (and difficult to pull off without Fey's author).
If on the other hand it is about Nimbus, he has little to do with Team Kimba, other than seeing them as nuisances to his grandiosity. None of the Kimbas are avatars anymore (and only one of them ever was) so their involvement is nebulous. Then again, the prophecy was a warning to Chaka that she would get draggeed into fights too big for her and it is a very Kimba thing to do to jump into a situation without thinking. Problem with this reasoning is that Chaka is the greatest culprit of this and she would be the cause of Team Kimba getting involved, not getting dragged into it.
rambling (or soapboxing) on
If some of the lines have to be treated as metaphorical then the first probably still refers to somebody (rather than something) associated with the goodkind famlly. I can not see a scenario where Ayla turns out to be a false friend to Chaka. It is marginally possible he would do something that appears inimical to Chaka for the greater good (like the scenario that Everhart came up with for Dark Phase) but even that would be for Team Kimba and not him being a false friend.
Of the Goodkinds who no longer are goodkinds, we have Gracie (whom Chaka doesn't know) and Ayla (whom she considers to be a Goodkind anyway). It would be strange to interpret this from the point of view of the Goodkind family, so the storm signs are still pointing at David being the unwitting pawn of Nimbus and the actual confrontation being a ways (or six to seven months) off in the future.
Lambs stand for innocence and purity. Lamb's blood stands for the sacrifice of such. There are many myths and stories where the willng sacrifice of such is required to bind a great evil. Who the innocent is in Team Kimba is an open question. Jade of course immediately comes to mind, but she is technically virginal but far from innocent in most ways that term can be interpreted. Same goes for Billie really. Technically a virgin but not an innocent. Of all the team the ones who most qualify for being innocent are Fey and Chaka herself. Even if neither are virginal (and then we have the added complication of the bronze age meaning of the term which was not focussed strictly on not having had intercourse, but rather on not being bound to the authority of a man)
The anvil meets the hammer's kiss to me appears to point at the need to have an immovable object or situation that can meet great blows over and over again, and in the process creating something new. The hammer shapes the metal against the anvil after all. Whether this is a warning that Team Kimba (or Chaka herself) will be the hammer or the anvil in this scenario is impossible to tell without further clues.
White Mask fall in a twist of mind. The capitalisation of the words point at a proper name. The use of the singular tense suggests that this is a collective noun. The rest of the line would then resolve into a warning that there will be mental or psionic attack that stops or defeats the defenders of the school (the white masks or heroes of the scenario). This fits with Chou's nightmares of Team Kimba being mindcontrolled and dragged off by the Dark Man.
Black Storm with a will to rain. Again the double capitalisation. I can think of several interpretations of this line but without further clues none of them is more likely than the other. Or really much likely at all.
Jailer, Jaile, all a-twist. This seems to be a fairly straightforward continuation of the twist of mind line, pointing at a confused situation where it is unclear who are the protagonists and the antagonists. The specific use of the words Jailor and Jailed points at there being confusion that somebody or something that was captured can be or should be trusted (and there are a lot of things that currently are or can be considered captured in Whateley right now and in the near future. This part even can not come into play until after the situation spirals out of control and point at not trusting anybody who is being captured and mind controlled by the Dark Man)
Laughing harriers seek the burning hind. Stags and hinds, burning or otherwise, are metaphors for Sidhe and fey fold in mythology, and christianity has taken on some of that ancient symbolism for its own as part of subsuming local religions in its move north across the European continent. Actually hunting a hind of course was something that was frowned upon as it took away future generations of venison (which is why doing so would incur the wrath of the forces of nature) but if the Dark Man is The Bastard (rather than Nimbus) this is exactly what he is seeking to do: destroying future generations to make the planet suitable for bringing his GOO into this reality (and then destroy it)
Weeping the hand can not refran Zulu warrios in the mist. This to me seems to be a single line of the prophecy even if it is cut in two by the formatting. This may be one of the lines that is to be taken literal rather than metaphorical. There are a couple of people in Whateley who can be described as 'the Hand of ...', with Chou being the foremost of those. This line could simply be a warning that just having the Hand(maid) of the Tao (balance) will not be enough to beat back the armies that are going to be swarming over the defenses of the school. In other words, it is not going to be a battle of Roarke's Drift scenario.
Cruel fire burns the chains that bind. This again seems fairly straightforward. It may the inverse binding of the second line and point at the torture that the Dark Man is using to mind control his victims. The latest story featuring a Nimbus scene strongly favours this interpretation.
It also may be a reference back to the lamb's blood (sacrifice) binding of the second line. But this seems less likely to me as the two lines are so in opposite to each other in symbology and phrasing)
The last two lines
Double Terror, Tripple Bliss and The Green Key you will find, are both even less clear than mud to me. I have no idea how to even begin interpreting them (not even a WAG to be honest).
- joreymay
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Erianaiel wrote: If some of the lines have to be treated as metaphorical then the first probably still refers to somebody (rather than something) associated with the goodkind famlly. I can not see a scenario where Ayla turns out to be a false friend to Chaka. It is marginally possible he would do something that appears inimical to Chaka for the greater good (like the scenario that Everhart came up with for Dark Phase) but even that would be for Team Kimba and not him being a false friend.
Of the Goodkinds who no longer are goodkinds, we have Gracie (whom Chaka doesn't know) and Ayla (whom she considers to be a Goodkind anyway). It would be strange to interpret this from the point of view of the Goodkind family, so the storm signs are still pointing at David being the unwitting pawn of Nimbus and the actual confrontation being a ways (or six to seven months) off in the future.
Don't forget Puppet (Melissa Thurber-Goodkind), she of the toxic blood.
- null0trooper
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Erianaiel wrote: Who the innocent is in Team Kimba is an open question. Jade of course immediately comes to mind, but she is technically virginal but far from innocent in most ways that term can be interpreted. Same goes for Billie really. Technically a virgin but not an innocent. Of all the team the ones who most qualify for being innocent are Fey and Chaka herself.
I wouldn't necessarily call a blood-sister of the Kellith "innocent". Depending on how one apportions responsibility and blame, Billie, Jade, and Nikki may have the three highest bodycounts in the Class of 2010.
Within Team Kimba, Lancer's in many ways the most innocent in attitude and world view.
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- Ametros
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Double Terror, Triple Bliss - to me, I have difficulty attributing this one to anything other than Outcast Corner's collective secret. I don't think I need explain why.
White Mask fall in a twist of mind - this one is a rather ambiguous one, I admit. To me it evokes the White/Grey/Black Hat roles, but it also says Mask, implying that 'White' could be a false front. If so, then it should refer to the unveiling of a villain - Nimbus strikes me as the most likely candidate at this point. However, should Mask not be implying such, then it seems to me that somebody will be having a change of heart and turning coat, willingly or not. 'Twist of mind' for either instance could refer to some form of psychic attack or manipulation, or could merely just be the thoughts of an individual striking a different course from those previous.
Seriously, thank you for your time and effort. It is appreciated.
- Malady
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It's basically just the prophecy, and Eriandel's speculation on it.
So, what do we know from the hints scattered throughout the stories since, and what can we infer?
The first line may refer to David Goodkind. We know for certain that Nimbus did something to him that was the culmination of what he did to Puppet and Phase. The odd thing here is that Nimbus monologued about being at a tight deadline and that he had only a short time frame to put in motion whatever he had in mind and that the mutification (?) of David Goodkind was a critical first step in that.
Lamb's Blood could refer to innocence and / or sacrifice of such. Whether that would be Nimbus using it to bind the heroes or how he is finally defeated remains to be seen. Assuming the meaning is not more metaphorical of course
White Mask, probably refers to heroes in general (the white mask / black mask false dichotomy that superhero stories are rife with). If to be taken literal it could be terrible news about Phase ...
The burning hind could refer to celtic (i.e. Sidhe in the whateleyverse) lore, or it could refer to a certain assistant headmistress we all love to loathe. Hunting mythological deer never ended well for the humans doing so in celtic lore, but it often did not end well for the hind or stag either. A bit of a greek tragedy here where humans in their arrogance destroyed something and were punished for it by the gods and or forces of nature.
Zulu stands for the letter Z (rather I think than for the literal Zulu warriors), which is often short for Zero. That is why the Greenwhich meridian gets prefixed with Z in the UTC. It also can be milspeak for the zero hour, or midnight, in a 24 hour clock. And for the moment the countdown runs out and the operation starts or the, well, it involves a fan. The way Nacht the nigh omniscient demi godess addressed her note to Nacht the grumpy and occasionally recreationally terrifying bad seed, strongly suggests that we should look at that last interpretantion. "Do not upon until Zero Hour (and things are blowing up all around you)".
Any other informed, wild or hilarous speculations?
And what is the Green Key a metaphor for? Or alternatively, what metaphorical lock requires a green key?
----
IIRC, no one's mentioned Code Name Zulu ?
- null0trooper
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Malady wrote: Okay, so we just lost the first post... Weird... I've got a copy, but I'll hold out for it being repaired soon...
This one?
The code for navigating pages of a thread is still a bit wonky.
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- Kettlekorn
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- Erianaiel
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Topic Author
Malady wrote: IIRC, no one's mentioned Code Name Zulu ?
It isn't mentioned in this discussion (but probably was before).
However this, and the letter that the somewhat omniscient half-deity Nacht wrote to the snarky deadpan student Nacht (marked with Do not open until Zulu). are the reason why I favour the interpretation that the word Zulu from the prophecy refers to a moment in time, not to a tribal nation from Africa.
(as in: the count down for a operation reaches zero and the blowing things up starts. A military operation because of the implicit assocation in the prophecy of warriors with this zero hour)
- RoseBlack
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