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Question (Fae) Atavisms, ethnicity, and Fae-Human Children.

9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #1 by Malady
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    • So, Faerie 'mutations' are actually Atavisms -a reemergence of an ancestral form-, and there might be the possibility of other Atavisms from the Five Fold Court's members.

    So does that mean that certain Atavisms are locked to certain ethnicities? If so, where would the lands of each Court be, in our modern geography?

    If it follows the following map, then could it mean that Nicholas Rilley, Fey, pre-'mutation', had Native American Ancestry, as the Court of the West would have been North/South America?

    Also, Fey is a special case, as she didn't just turn into am atavistic form, she also hosted Aunghadhail. Who we know didn't have kids, and so couldn't actually be Aung's descendant. So, the more common atavism is just gaining Sidhe ears and stuff without hosting a spirit.

    And... Ethnicities' locations could have been shuffled around post-Sundering, so Mongoloids might have been of the East Court or something, and got moved to America post-Sundering or something. And then there's the Bering Migrations and stuff, which could be affected by the Sundering... Sundering's time-stuff makes this all so messy...

    Map [ Click to expand ]


    Might this be spoilers? If it is then go ahead and say, please?
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    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    9 years 3 months ago #2 by Kristin Darken
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    • Contemporary humans do not carry fae DNA. Humans do not descend from the fae and there are no points of interbreeding where you could trace back to an ancestor and find fae blood that could reoccur in the fashion of atavisms.

    Humans and the Fae could not breed without something altering one or both parents to a compatible stable result... an end result that would be neither human or sidhe. This is why it takes a BIT and sufficient regeneration (either as a base trait or via an Exemplar nature) to become Sidhe...

    Now, its entirely possible that somewhere in the history of the human animal, that someone introduced genetic markers using magick or science that resulted in more Fae looking humans and it is also possible that those traits could float to the top in certain instances... but that is purely a factor of appearance, it would not make those individuals Sidhe (and the various Court / blood wards - such as the Glamour that protects the Court youth or the dispersion effect that destroys biological remains once dead and separate from the body - would not work for those people).
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    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #3 by Malady
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: Humans and the Fae could not breed without something altering one or both parents to a compatible stable result... an end result that would be neither human or sidhe. This is why it takes a BIT and sufficient regeneration (either as a base trait or via an Exemplar nature) to become Sidhe...


    Are Jobe's Drow an example of such a compatible, stable, end result?

    And now that feels spoilery...
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    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    9 years 3 months ago #4 by Phoenix Spiritus
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: Contemporary humans do not carry fae DNA. Humans do not descend from the fae and there are no points of interbreeding ...


    So, spoiler: Absinth is getting a new origin story?
    9 years 3 months ago #5 by Domoviye
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    • She won't need a new origin story. Just change one 'memory' and a couple of lines. Easy to do.
    9 years 3 months ago #6 by Phoenix Spiritus
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    • Um, in the FanFiction, Absinth is Fae because of latent Sidhe genes from a distant ancestor who she manifested and came to resemble, but Kristen says that never happened ...
    9 years 3 months ago #7 by Domoviye
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    • Yeah. So what its' easy to change.
    However the other souls of the Sidhe get reborn simply decides that Absinthe is a good choice, and pops in along with the memories. Again change the few lines of dialogue that says there related, and lose the scene where it shows her ancestor having a baby with a human. If Morpheus wants to keep it dead simple, it could be changed in as little as 10 minutes once he finds all the lines that have to be changed. .
    9 years 3 months ago #8 by Phoenix Spiritus
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    • So, spoiler! Absinth is getting a new origin story!
    9 years 3 months ago #9 by Domoviye
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    • I guess a minor change like that could be called a new origin.
    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #10 by Phoenix Spiritus
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    • Hmm, possibly "minor" in terms of work, but I feel "major" in terms of character outlook and development. 'Offspring of Fae' is an entirely different emotional ballgame then 'reincarnation of Fae'. After all, with one it's what your distant ancestors did, with the other it's what you personally did.

    I mean, just take the little things, as offspring, your parents are still your parents, with reincarnation your parents are what? A convenient womb?

    Then there is the memories, as offspring 'she's not me! I don't have to be that way!", um, hello, reincarnation? That defence ain't there, all sorts of angst about 'who is me?' coming, and it never really ends, think about it, even if choosing not to be like your memories, they are now there, now part of you, and the older you get, the closer in appearance you get to the person you don't want to be, the more you worry that in the same situations you'll make the same decision you hatted.

    Lots and lots of angst, majorly different personality because of the change.

    Just saying.
    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by Phoenix Spiritus.
    9 years 3 months ago #11 by Domoviye
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    • Let's agree to disagree.
    She can still be told wrongly that it's genetics, or that it was just chance that did it. It doesn't have to lead to angst or self doubt. It all comes down to how Morpheus chooses to portray it.
    9 years 3 months ago #12 by elrodw
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    • "We are aware of the issue. Please stand by."

    The cabal knows that there are issues involving Absinthe, Drow, Fae, and Humans. We are discussing the situation and coming up with a logical situation that we all agree with. It may be a new origin for Absinthe, it may be an artifact of the Sundering, or something else entirely (like alien experimentation with shiny metal probes :ohmy: ) Suffice to say, it will be resolved so we (the cabal) are all satisfied, and then it will be a canon "Word of God".
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    9 years 3 months ago #13 by E M Pisek
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    • One other thing to remember about being a reincarnation (in my opinion) and that is the time element involved. By this I mean, just because I'm reborn from a previous time and I just found out about it I am 'not' that person everyone wants me to be. My history is different from who I had been, I have new experiences that my former self did not go through and just because 'you' say that I'm that person and I may have a few memories its up to me who decides who I am.

    That is of course if I have any say so. If I'm forced to be who you say I have to be than I will feel some form of resentment in having those expectations. You can't recreate every element I had previously went through and if you implant them in my mind than I'll not know who I was afterwards so then it become moot.
    What is - was. What was - is.
    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #14 by Kristin Darken
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    • Personally, I don't see how Morpheus has to change anything. Absinthe can believe whatever she wants... doesn't mean she's right. Champion (the original one) thought he was an alien who lost all his abilities and could die when exposed to a certain type of material. That doesn't mean he was actually an alien. The only situation where it REALLY matters at the moment is if one of the currently living 'true' Sidhe were to try to have children with a human. Or, if we were to tell stories about a mixed couple living back in the pre-Sundering time as a canon story. Then we'd have to be clear on whether or not kids were possible.
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    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by Kristin Darken.
    9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #15 by DanZilla
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: Personally, I don't see how Morpheus has to change anything. Absinthe can believe whatever she wants... doesn't mean she's right. Champion (the original one) thought he was an alien who lost all his abilities and could die when exposed to a certain type of material. That doesn't mean he was actually an alien. The only situation where it REALLY matters at the moment is if one of the currently living 'true' Sidhe were to try to have children with a human. Or, if we were to tell stories about a mixed couple living back in the pre-Sundering time as a canon story. Then we'd have to be clear on whether or not kids were possible.


    Exactly. With Absinthe, IIRC, all we have is that she was TOLD that she was a descendant of Vauldrene. No tests to investigate that or proof was provided. It was a convenient theory that fit some of the facts.



    • Now, to look at what she's got and how it could be done without relying on being a genetic descendant...

    She's been told she's not an avatar... but that could easily be part of her powerset and just not not have been diagnosed.

    We've seen at least 2-types of Avatar previously. We've got the normal-style that everyone thinks of that has variations within it for different types of Avatar/Spirit relationships and the Paladin-type that allows a powerful spirit to provide power but not be
    "shackled" to an individual.

    Absinthe could be one of these types easily. This would provide a simple way to get her powers.

    The other side(s) of the coin is the looks, affinity for the faeries and the memories remembered as dreams. I would not expect those from being a Paladin (possible but unlikely) but it could easily be explained by the normal-style Avatar relationship just with a spirit that can't communicate as we've seen in most of the POV stories OR it might be a new, or not previously described "inheritance" style Avatar where the person gets a variation on reincarnating as the spirit but with-or-without an "instruction manual".

    These are just ways to do it using the Avatar power-set... beyond that you could use a magic artifact, Devisor-Experiment, Magic spell gone Awry (or Aw-right), Weird trans-sundering Warp effect (maybe the Bastard's been experimenting), etc...

    Heck, Morpheus could just stand regally tall, hold aloft his mighty quill and state Loudly "BY THE POWER OF PLOT..." and state a reason.
    Last Edit: 9 years 3 months ago by DanZilla.
    9 years 3 months ago #16 by Greatdingo
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    • I take it then, that humanity was out and about just a tad bit earlier than in our real world?

    Because, I seem to recall reading that the Sidhe courts were in a time of Pangea (Long before humanity evolved), or am I wrong about that?
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    9 years 3 months ago #17 by Domoviye
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    • The best way to look at it is this.
    History was going along nicely, then the Sundering happened. The Sundering took time, space and reality in general and threw it into a big blender. While the Bastard wanted to hit liquify on the big blender, he was stopped and it was only chopped and diced.
    What camee out is the world we see today.
    So yes humans were around in the time of Pangea, and no they weren't in the time of Pangea.
    It gets confusing.
    9 years 3 months ago #18 by Dawnfyre
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    • and who can say, maybe Absinthe truly has a Sidhe ancestor, if said half-breed was conceived during/just after the sundering, the amount of magical energy/backlash from failed spell could have allowed the mixing.

    There are a lot of ways to handle Absinthe's origin, that idea I put is just the simplest fix to the non-mixing of the genomes.
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    9 years 3 months ago #19 by Malady
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    • @CC:

    When you say "Fae"... What does that mean? ... Like, are Dragons Fae? Are Djinni? Etc. for all the Five-Fold Court Species/Races.
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    9 years 3 months ago #20 by Domoviye
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    • Fae usually means humanoid magical creatures. So elves, fairies, nymphs, etc.
    9 years 3 months ago #21 by lighttech
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    • then there are magical BIT's

    in cannon it has been said in a grizzly story
    that when she got to earth, all the elves died from lack of magic--no magic from 'the wood' no elves. They basically starve

    so here is my cannon expl for a magic BIT Caitlin/Eldritch

    When he was human. He showed some of the traits that would soon be him/her as Eldritch. He could drive anything, he could-- Mahren has an uncanny ability to understand how to use, maintain and disassemble any sort of device or gadget he put his hands on, almost a psychometric style ability, similar to Loophole's powers

    All not unlike Eldritch that he would become soon

    But till then he had a 'shadow' of his fill BIT.

    Then magic was added and POOF! the full BIT! and thus Eldritch.

    And when this happened he/she gained past knowledge of how to build some magic items. Example her 'harvester blade'. She knew that, she would need that tool. To make more and then add she also had the past memories for all the long dead reincarnations of her so far.

    So with this IMO

    there are two BIT's one regular
    and one magic based that can carry past knowledge with it.

    So with this, Elves are coming back after a long absence--why?

    Well, We all know the sundering blasted the continent apart, and messed up time, and destroyed all the magic on the planet (with one exception, the place where elves are hiding out under the Himalayas) So after the Magic 'biosphere" has healed up via 'a long time' (only recently) Elves are popping back up! Thus the 6 to 8 that are at whateley right now!

    So also IMO
    You need magic, to activate a Magic BIT or you just get that 'shadow' one Erik Mahren had.

    As for Drow that was brought up --

    Fey Aunghadhail says this here

    crystalhall.org/SaksAndViolence

    “It’s got to be stopped.” She wrapped a strand of fiery red hair around one finger and started pulling at it hard enough to look like she was trying to pull it out by the roots. “They shouldn’t exist at all and are a mockery of both bright and dark Sidhe. Aunghadhail is driving me nuts with her railing about that. I have to find some way to get rid of them, or at least to stop Jobe from making more of the creatures.”

    Aung maybe saying that a DNA made part drow should not exist !! but dark sidhe go some sort exist to her? so are they Drow?

    and as to Jobe saying that Drow don't exist ---remember he/ she is a human so what would he know what did or did not exist

    I am also sure that there are many elven/sidhe races or sub-races we have not see yeat as they are so rare!


    I personally based a whole fan fic off of this idea.

    I hope I got his right --as its real hard to type out an Idea like this than say it!
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    9 years 3 months ago #22 by ~Archangel~
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    • lighttech wrote:
    Fey Aunghadhail says this here

    crystalhall.org/SaksAndViolence

    “It’s got to be stopped.” She wrapped a strand of fiery red hair around one finger and started pulling at it hard enough to look like she was trying to pull it out by the roots. “They shouldn’t exist at all and are a mockery of both bright and dark Sidhe. Aunghadhail is driving me nuts with her railing about that. I have to find some way to get rid of them, or at least to stop Jobe from making more of the creatures.”

    Aung maybe saying that a DNA made part drow should not exist !! but dark sidhe go some sort exist to her? so are they Drow?


    It could be a reference to the Dark Elves of Norse myth. Or maybe Aunghadhail would have no trouble with a human/Sidhe cross if love between the two parents was involved. Jobe on the other hand is the antithesis of love aka the natural order. Everything Jobe does is about twisting nature to suit her whims.
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    9 years 3 months ago #23 by jmhyp
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    • It is a big difference in one way. She shouldn't receive a gift from Eldritch, unless E is honoring the memory shared, and that's a bit weak.
    9 years 3 months ago #24 by DanZilla
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    • jmhyp wrote: It is a big difference in one way. She shouldn't receive a gift from Eldritch, unless E is honoring the memory shared, and that's a bit weak.


    When Eldritch gives it to her she doesn't expect her to remember or know why it was being given... it was purely for Eldritch's conscience and peace of mind. Eldritch remembered the person who gave a past version of her a kindness and she repaid it.
    9 years 3 months ago #25 by jmhyp
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    • But Absinth isn't the past version of her if she no longer experiences ancestral memories of being the former Sidhe.
    9 years 3 months ago #26 by Domoviye
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    • But it seems like the souls of the sidhe move in and join with the humans creating a hybred person. So technically while she's not an ancestor of the Sidhe, she's still a part of her.
    9 years 3 months ago #27 by DanZilla
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    • jmhyp wrote: But Absinth isn't the past version of her if she no longer experiences ancestral memories of being the former Sidhe.


    We'll have to see what Morpheus ends-up doing with it... I was just commenting on your post which assumes she won't be linked/related to a past version of the character who Eldritch had previously encountered.

    And my reply just presumes on her being visually the same with no necessary connection to the previous version.
    9 years 2 months ago #28 by Markel1970A
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    • It's like the Butterfly Effect. Even the smallest change can make big changes. LOL
    8 years 9 months ago #29 by Malady
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    • How well known is it that the Sidhe are Exemplars? It's not like there's an Exemplar test, is there?

    So, Ayla could disrupt a Sidhe mutant's BIT 'cause he doesn't know that they're Exemplars...? And that might prove that they're Exemplars, if there's no reason to suspect burnout or something...

    If the magic surpress-y thing that Pejuta had was applied to a Sidhe, would they die near instantly, if they need magic to live? ... What about being locked in an Ebidium box? ... Wait... Do they react to Ebidium like they do to iron??
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    8 years 9 months ago #30 by elrodw
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    • Malady wrote: How well known is it that the Sidhe are Exemplars? It's not like there's an Exemplar test, is there?

    So, Ayla could disrupt a Sidhe mutant's BIT 'cause he doesn't know that they're Exemplars...? And that might prove that they're Exemplars, if there's no reason to suspect burnout or something...

    If the magic surpress-y thing that Pejuta had was applied to a Sidhe, would they die near instantly, if they need magic to live? ... What about being locked in an Ebidium box? ... Wait... Do they react to Ebidium like they do to iron??


    If you remember EE's piece about the Sundering and Grizzly's return to Earth, recll that INSTANTLY all the Sidhe crew-members died because there was no essence (or at least it was strongly insinuated that's what happened).
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    8 years 9 months ago #31 by Malady
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    • elrodw wrote:

    Malady wrote: How well known is it that the Sidhe are Exemplars? It's not like there's an Exemplar test, is there?

    So, Ayla could disrupt a Sidhe mutant's BIT 'cause he doesn't know that they're Exemplars...? And that might prove that they're Exemplars, if there's no reason to suspect burnout or something...

    If the magic surpress-y thing that Pejuta had was applied to a Sidhe, would they die near instantly, if they need magic to live? ... What about being locked in an Ebidium box? ... Wait... Do they react to Ebidium like they do to iron??


    If you remember EE's piece about the Sundering and Grizzly's return to Earth, recll that INSTANTLY all the Sidhe crew-members died because there was no essence (or at least it was strongly insinuated that's what happened).


    Oh, so mutant Sidhe are, for all intents and purposes, 'biologically' the same as Five Fold Court Sidhe. Okay.
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    8 years 9 months ago #32 by Kristin Darken
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    • There are a few minor differences, but yes... humans who mutate into Sidhe are not actually human mutants anymore but actual Sidhe. And unlike humans, many variants of Sidhe had innate powers as well as more natural ability in both Psi and Magick. Sidhe could host a spirit (although they did so rarely, because of reasons of trust - however, it was not uncommon for a family to channel or serve as paladins for a house deity), and many of them could bind themselves to an elemental source (similar to what an Energizer does).

    You could say, in a sense, that all mutants take a step onto a bridge between human and Sidhe... and every now and then, one of them crosses the whole way.
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    8 years 9 months ago - 8 years 9 months ago #33 by Otherself
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    • elrodw wrote: If you remember EE's piece about the Sundering and Grizzly's return to Earth, recll that INSTANTLY all the Sidhe crew-members died because there was no essence (or at least it was strongly insinuated that's what happened).

    Well, I probably shouldn't argue with an author but I completely missed this strong implication, on the other hand I took that "As if their souls had been ripped cleanly from their bodies" (BTW, the story is The Kodiak Conspiracy, and this particular part is right at the beginning of chapter 5) as a sign that they died from the spell that ended the ancient sidhe, you know the spell cast by the Bastard to sunder and consume the souls of the Fae but was prevented from taking full effect by the effort of the Queens:

    Ill Winds - Part 1 wrote: “The child shared a memory of mine that escaped.” The voice was Nikki's but not hers, either. It held more surety than the teenager's usually did, along with an ages old weariness. “She experienced the death of my realm, the terrible magic that was meant to destroy the Sidhe once and for all. That is The Sundering She speaks of here. The Eldritch curse that shattered the souls of The Nine Queens of Faerie into spinning bits, but failed to devour those fragments as planned. We were able to a least blunt that much of the spell before the end.”


    Also, if lack of essence is enough to kill a Sidhe, shouldn't Nikki have died when Solicitor put those cold iron shackles on her in Christmas Elves? Or are modern Sidhe able to survive Magick deprivation where the ancient ones wouldn't?
    Last Edit: 8 years 9 months ago by Otherself.
    8 years 9 months ago - 8 years 9 months ago #34 by Otherself
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: There are a few minor differences, but yes... humans who mutate into Sidhe are not actually human mutants anymore but actual Sidhe. And unlike humans, many variants of Sidhe had innate powers as well as more natural ability in both Psi and Magick. Sidhe could host a spirit (although they did so rarely, because of reasons of trust - however, it was not uncommon for a family to channel or serve as paladins for a house deity), and many of them could bind themselves to an elemental source (similar to what an Energizer does).

    You could say, in a sense, that all mutants take a step onto a bridge between human and Sidhe... and every now and then, one of them crosses the whole way.


    Does this mean that might Fey might develop new powers? Like some exemplar rating or expanding her psichic abilities going from being a simple Empath to being a full blown Telepath or Psi?
    Last Edit: 8 years 9 months ago by Otherself.
    8 years 9 months ago - 8 years 9 months ago #35 by Kristin Darken
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    • Otherself wrote: Does this mean that might Fey might develop new powers? Like some exemplar rating or expanding her psichic abilities going from being a simple Empath to being a full blown Telepath or Psi?


    No... it means that Fey's Empathy and physical/mental ability are like her Magick ability in the sense that they are not mutant traits but an expression of her abilities as a Sidhe. Saying that Nikki is a Wiz 7 has never been accurate, because human or mutant... Mages had never been able to draw/cast directly from ley lines or 'raw' sources of Essence. However, that is a natural ability for Sidhe mages of a certain potential... a prerequisite to being able to work with the World Trees or any of the World class magick developed before the fall of their civilization. In fact, the inability to do so drew an almost visible 'caste' line between Mages and 'others who used magick'. A great many of those who were drawn to mythos magick during the fall of the Courts was that it was easy access to levels of power that were out of reach of non Mages.

    And as a side note... claiming an Empath to be simple and growing to be a full blown Telepath or Psi... is a misunderstanding of Psi in general and Empathy specifically. Empathy is not the same as Telepathy... or TK or other variants of Psi abilities... but it is not a lesser stepping stone to better ones, by any means. It is, all by its lonesome, an enormously powerful ability that develops uniquely in a certain type of Psychic. People who develop Empathy are often very different from those who develop Telepathy... and there are fewer intersections than you'd guess. The reason being? They are very distinctly different styles of interpreting thought and expression.

    Well, I probably shouldn't argue with an author but I completely missed this strong implication

    Doesn't matter if you do. The Sidhe who died during the Sundering died from the world and space/time getting ripped apart around them, including the World Trees and most life on the planet.With the World Trees dead, most life on the planet gone, and the remains of a civilization based on Essence as a primary source of power/fuel left running where it stood... any remaining Essence was soaked up and used almost immediately, resulting in a hard crash of surviving spells/enchantments. Those complex enough to go into sleep/idle mode might have survived for a long time before consuming the last bits of stored energy and failing. What was present when the rescue mission arrived was barely enough to power the ship around them for the first moments in the atmosphere. The living Sidhe among them not only were hit by the immediate absence of available Essence, but they did so in the midst of a starship fueled by Essence trying to crash land on a hostile planet. Just like human mages, when Sidhe try to fuel magick without sufficient Essence available to them, they can scavenge it from their life force. Human mages don't do it much because its not a natural process, you have to do blood sacrifice or soul burning to get any real amount of Essence from it. But with Sidhe mages, life energy is almost a direct supply of Essence... the Sidhe being more or less made of the stuff.

    But that also means that burning it away, quickly burns out the Mage, rapidly eating away away life force

    So ya, in trying to keep them alive; the defensive/protective magick on their ship would torn most available Essence right out of people... literally.

    iron shackles

    Cold forged iron consumes Essence in a very specific way, but it IS purely physical itself. That means it mainly only works in direct contact. Shackles touching your flesh may prevent channeling energy through your arms/hands, and will burn the flesh it is in contact with... but it won't directly burn the legs. Or consume the Essence in the Sidhe's Well. It also doesn't 'perfectly' close off the presence of Essence on all levels. Even the charm that Kayda had to wear during the trial wasn't a perfect lock of Essence... but it was probably close enough that a Sidhe wouldn't survive it for long (certainly for less time than Kayda wore it).
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    Last Edit: 8 years 9 months ago by Kristin Darken.
    8 years 9 months ago #36 by Otherself
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    • Kristin, did my post annoy you by any chance?

    'Cause that "Doesn't matter if you do." seems a bit harsh to me, which makes me think that you interpred my post as a sort of attack rather than me being genuinely confused (if I'm misreading this, I apologize for overreacting, just disreguard this first part).

    However I'm also grateful for the info dump, it clarified some facts that were a bit nebolous.

    Which gives me more questions:

    Are the powers of a Sidhe set or do they evolve over time? I mean, people change over time, as experiences accumulate, for a human it affects mostly the state of mind but a Sidhe is inherently magical in nature, you said that they are basically made of essence, if our experiences shape us then they should have a much greater impact on the Sidhe, due to Law of Definition (experiences affect the mind and sense of self, which due to their magical nature defines who they are). This way they would be able to evolve and better adapt to the changes that comes over time a useful ability for creatures that are supposedly immortal and reproduce very slowly.

    And in Fey's specific case, how does her bond with Sara affect her?

    Also, what are the differences between the ancient Sidhe and the modern, human-born ones? Did the rebirth process using humanity as medium affect them?

    .....The Sidhe have their life force closely interconnected with essence.... can they generate essence by eating food?
    8 years 9 months ago #37 by Kristin Darken
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    • No, you didn't annoy me or upset me... it simply doesn't matter if you argue with me. Canon detail is canon detail whether you agree with it or not. :)

    However, a lot of the Sundering era stuff is SUPPOSED to be confusing and nebulous. And if we give you all of the answers to the Sidhe, the Courts, and their war with the Bastard now... then it will lessen the impact of the reveal and confrontation when Kodiak, the Atlantean League, and others square off against him.
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    8 years 9 months ago #38 by Ametros
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    • Otherself wrote: And in Fey's specific case, how does her bond with Sara affect her?


    The Blood Oath [ Click to expand ]


    So from this, it seems clear to me that Nikki got quite the mental boost, at least where calculations and similar processes can be applied to magic. The quantum mechanics part is of note as, if I recall correctly, it is one of Sara's fortes as demonstrated by her calibrating the spots that Team Kimba uses. It was mentioned in passing that the calibration was the most expensive part of the devices by at least an order of magnitude?

    Not to mention the link it forged between the two, allowing for communication and the broadcasting of emotions across it.
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    7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 3 months ago #39 by Malady
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    • Rose Bunny wrote: As for her appearance and the red hair, her "original self" was of Irish descent, as a lot of Sidhe appear to be...
    Think about some of their names.

    Reilly, Gwendolyn, Wylann, Rhiannon...


    :ohmy: :lol:

    I bet that's 'not' a coincidence...

    Placing a bet on the younger Reilly as Bratty Sister!

    ... Could all Sidhe Mutants be descended from Human-Sidhe matings?? 'Cause all you need is a bit of magic, and there was a lot of magic during the FiveFold...

    Hope I'm not Ninja'd...
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    Last Edit: 7 years 3 months ago by Malady.
    7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #40 by Rose Bunny
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    • My speculation on that the portion of Pangea that Atlantis was part of just happened to be fairly close to what is now modern day Ireland and Scotland? So during the continental break-up, surviving Sidhe (remember that Sidhe itself is a word or Irish origin) fled the sinking region of Atlantis and relocated to Ireland and the British Isles.

    Sidhe |SHē|
    pl.noun
    the fairy people of Irish folklore, said to live beneath the hills and often identified as the remnant of the ancient Tuatha Dé Danann.
    ORIGIN
    from Irish aos sidhe ‘people of the fairy mound.’

    Then again, the Sidhe seem intentionally determined to be difficult... so many people have commented on how Nikki and Cirque look alike, and that the are a reflection of Aunghadhail, and yet the Queen of the West herself appears in her mental form to look amazingly quite unlike either.

    The queen, for she could be nothing else, was a tall, sharp featured woman with milk white hair worn combed back from her high forehead to fall to the small of her back and held in place by a circlet of what Wyatt took for platinum at first glance, but was likely the much more valuable Mithril he'd heard of but never seen. A single, perfect amethyst hung from the circlet, which lightened her pale complexion and lit a fire in her icy blue eyes and for all her cold and imposing regal nature, the woman was still very beautiful in a distant, unobtainable way. She was dressed in a white linen gown with a waist cincher she didn't need of a gold and white brocade pattern and held a knurled wooden staff that was as white as the rest of her wardrobe.

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    Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by Rose Bunny.
    7 years 10 months ago #41 by null0trooper
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    • Rose Bunny wrote: My speculation on that the portion of Pangea that Atlantis was part of just happened to be fairly close to what is now modern day Ireland and Scotland? So during the continental break-up, surviving Sidhe (remember that Sidhe itself is a word or Irish origin) fled the sinking region of Atlantis and relocated to Ireland and the British Isles.


    The Celtic languages aren't even a tiny fraction of being that old.

    It's been mentioned several times that Aunghadhail and Eldritch both tend to curse in completely ancient and incomprehensible languages. On the other hand, the authors likely wanted to use something other than line noise (not to be confused with Cymraeg)

    There is a mention that most (or even all?) of the orichalcum available comes from a coven of Fae alchemists in the Himalayas. Hopefully not direct survivors of Atlantis, as it's been a quarter of a billion years or so. For all anyone knows, they could have been Southern Court, y'all, as they've specialized in a right purty metal associyated with "yang" energy (I prefer real orange juice, myself) Too bad that that India sure gets around. (Your mountains'd be high too if'n you slammed inter Asia like that!)
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    7 years 10 months ago #42 by Iwasforger03
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    • I'm curious about the Canotila? How did they survive the sundering if there wasn't enough magic to sustain them?
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    7 years 10 months ago #43 by Domoviye
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    • Iwasforger03 wrote: I'm curious about the Canotila? How did they survive the sundering if there wasn't enough magic to sustain them?


    Two possibilities.
    1) They entered some kind of hibernation, surviving on the bare minimum of essence required to keep their bodies at the barest threshold of survival and nothing else to spare.
    2) Similar to the first but they entered various trees using them like a cocoon, siphoning off just a touch of the essence to keep them alive and mostly asleep, only waking very rarely to change trees once theirs got too old, and to defend their grove from harm.
    7 years 10 months ago #44 by Rose Bunny
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    • null0trooper wrote:

    Rose Bunny wrote: My speculation on that the portion of Pangea that Atlantis was part of just happened to be fairly close to what is now modern day Ireland and Scotland? So during the continental break-up, surviving Sidhe (remember that Sidhe itself is a word or Irish origin) fled the sinking region of Atlantis and relocated to Ireland and the British Isles.


    The Celtic languages aren't even a tiny fraction of being that old.

    It's been mentioned several times that Aunghadhail and Eldritch both tend to curse in completely ancient and incomprehensible languages. On the other hand, the authors likely wanted to use something other than line noise (not to be confused with Cymraeg)

    There is a mention that most (or even all?) of the orichalcum available comes from a coven of Fae alchemists in the Himalayas. Hopefully not direct survivors of Atlantis, as it's been a quarter of a billion years or so. For all anyone knows, they could have been Southern Court, y'all, as they've specialized in a right purty metal associyated with "yang" energy (I prefer real orange juice, myself) Too bad that that India sure gets around. (Your mountains'd be high too if'n you slammed inter Asia like that!)

    What I meant was that the actual, real world origin of the word is Irish...

    Sidhe |SHē|
    pl.noun
    the fairy people of Irish folklore, said to live beneath the hills and often identified as the remnant of the ancient Tuatha Dé Danann.
    ORIGIN
    from Irish aos sidhe ‘people of the fairy mound.’

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    7 years 10 months ago #45 by Iwasforger03
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    • She is correct. It would probably be reversed in this universe: the Irish learned the word from either Sidhe survivors (somehow), artifacts, or because the first of the new sidhe appeared in Ireland due perhaps to its nature worship and abundant green perhaps. Or, at least, western court style Sidhe.
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    7 years 10 months ago #46 by Kristin Darken
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    • no actual Sidhe survived the Sundering if they remained on Earth.

    But we know from Grizzly and Kodiak that there were evacuations to get people off-world. The Essence levels hadn't recovered enough yet for high magick artifacts (like their star ship) to function properly when Grizzly came back. And they had to come by starship because no gate mechanisms would work to travel to Earth.

    That doesn't mean that ALL Sidhe went that far away though. Some might have slipped dimension rather than physical distance across the stars. Likely, some escaped and returned too soon and were still caught by the lack of Essence and died... but eventually the world started to recover. And those trying to return would find a dangerous, desolate world. They might explore, try to find survivors or lost technology and resources. They might leave information behind for others to use to find them. Later, much later, when humans became civilized enough to puzzle out some of that old information, they might have reached across the void and been in contact with survivors of the Courts.

    But they wouldn't have spent those tens or hundreds of thousands of years here.
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    7 years 10 months ago #47 by Ametros
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: Some might have slipped dimension rather than physical distance across the stars.


    That's an interesting tidbit.

    I was pondering just the other day how Billie's spacefaring adventure would relate to the legacy of the Courts. Whether they're further removed, present at all or something else. But that story certainly widened the potential scope of the universe so far that any attempts to guess are ultimately futile.
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    7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #48 by NJM1564
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: But we know from Grizzly and Kodiak that there were evacuations to get people off-world. The Essence levels hadn't recovered enough yet for high magick artifacts (like their star ship) to function properly when Grizzly came back.


    Recovered enough yet? As of Gen1 they still haven't really recovered by any significant amount. I know Fay planted a world tree but is it already making that much of a big difference in Gen2?
    Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by NJM1564.
    7 years 10 months ago #49 by Ametros
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    • NJM1564 wrote: Recovered enough yet? As of Gen1 they still haven't really recovered by any significant amount. I know Fay planted a world tree but is it already making that much of a big difference in Gen2?


    Well, there's enough essence to sustain a growing population of Sidhe, not to mention numerous mages - both baseline and mutant. While still no doubt paling in comparison to the hey-day of the Sidhe and Courts, there are a good number of magicks wrought in the world.

    Also bear in mind that it's not just that there's more essence available now than immediately post-Sundering, but that there are fewer autonomous sources remaining to draw on what essence is available. Once the tree matures and more get planted in the distant future, there may very well be a point where essence is more freely available than it would have been pre-Sundering. Or not. It would depend exactly on how the progress of magic and machine march on.
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    7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #50 by NJM1564
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    • DanZilla wrote: Exactly. With Absinthe, IIRC, all we have is that she was TOLD that she was a descendant of Vauldrene. No tests to investigate that or proof was provided. It was a convenient theory that fit some of the facts.


    Or it could be that she was simply told she was a Shidi.

    It is also possible or humans to become Fae. The Drow, Whisper, and all current Fey type mutants prove that. Since they were originally human it should be far more likely that they can interbreed with humans than those who were born Fey.

    As for them being made out of essence then gods shouldn't have bin able to breed with humans. But Half-breeds might exist. Though non have bin mentioned yet.
    Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by NJM1564.
    7 years 10 months ago #51 by Iwasforger03
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    • Don't think just them being originaly human allows for half-breeds. Now, I could see Fey being capable of using magic to somehow twist something so that if she really wanted to, her boyfriend/husband (at the moment, we'll go with Stalwart) could get her pregnant if she so desired, but without magical intervention of some sort, Word of God already stated Sidhe and humans can't technically interbreed.
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    7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #52 by NJM1564
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: No, you didn't annoy me or upset me... it simply doesn't matter if you argue with me. Canon detail is canon detail whether you agree with it or not. :)


    Yes canon detail is canon detail. Right up until the authors decide to change it.
    Most if not all of the information can be said to come from the characters own understanding of it.
    This means that even word of god can have a bit of flexibility to it.

    I mean the Big Dumb Bear and Queenykins could be talking out of there rear and be completely wrong. They are after all mentioned as being powerful users and were likely well taught but they aren't the ones who first researched magic. They could be just as misinformed as a laymen.

    I mean the only proof that they have that magic works like they say it does is that it works. And that is hardly prof at all. Most people use things and only think they understand them all the time.

    Granted it's not like the authors are going to change things on a whim. But things can be changed. Even on a fundamental level. As long as the effect of those changes is the same.

    The power could come from spirits, the elemental plains, A super duper computer, or Lavos (Chronotrigger) as long as it works.
    Heck the way things are going magic and the entire Shidi race could be powered by stolen male reproductive organs and boobs.

    So who knows if there aren't ways to overcome the species gap.
    I mean in the realm of impossible there are less likely things.
    Wasn't it mentioned that the Queen slept with Kodiak. And there wasn't any mention of him having a human form back then.
    Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by NJM1564.
    7 years 10 months ago #53 by Sir Lee
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    • A more interesting question is... what about those Earth Sidhe who evacuated to the stars but didn't come back? Is there a large empire of Earth Sidhe somewhere out there? Would they recognize Fey/Aunghandail as some sort of nobility?
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    7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #54 by Rose Bunny
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    • Sir Lee wrote: A more interesting question is... what about those Earth Sidhe who evacuated to the stars but didn't come back? Is there a large empire of Earth Sidhe somewhere out there? Would they recognize Fey/Aunghandail as some sort of nobility?

    I don't know, it's been shown that almost all of the Sidhe that we know of that were already at the school when Nikki arrived pretty much revere her in one way or another ... with the exception of Zephyr, who seemingly has a connection to a lower royal court, and is more about the "Dammit, now I'm not the prettiest princess"...

    So my guess is that Fey (at least when she still had Aunghadhail) has that aura about her that exudes royalty and status.
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    Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by Rose Bunny.
    7 years 10 months ago #55 by Ametros
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    • The Weres were evacuated at least in part, and later returned with Grizzly - eventually forming the Medawihla. So Sidhe evacuating as well isn't unreasonable.

    One curious detail I noted is that the planet they departed to is named "Sthri", which has only otherwise been mentioned by Ty West as the name of his race. Coincidence? I think not!
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    7 years 10 months ago #56 by lighttech
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    • Kristin Darken wrote: Some might have slipped dimension rather than physical distance across the stars.


    Thus the legend of Sidhe 'going underhill' or a nearby dimension that they know how to get to?
    and maybe magic flows different there?
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    7 years 10 months ago #57 by Mister D
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    • lighttech wrote:

    Kristin Darken wrote: Some might have slipped dimension rather than physical distance across the stars.


    Thus the legend of Sidhe 'going underhill' or a nearby dimension that they know how to get to?
    and maybe magic flows different there?


    I'm just in the middle of re-reading "The Nightmare Stacks" by Charles Stross, which covers exactly this, but since the Laundry series is a cross between H.P.Lovecraft and John LeCarre, it comes to a slightly different set of conclusions...

    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


    The latest book in the series, "The Delirium Brief", is out in a few weeks. :D
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    7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #58 by Kristin Darken
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    • Sure. Hasn't everyone figured out by now that the smart thing to do with your stargate is to hide it in a bunker (under a hill) so you can control access and minimize small starship travel through the thing to terrorize your locals? :-p
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    Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by Kristin Darken.
    7 years 10 months ago #59 by Cryptic
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    • Sir Lee wrote: A more interesting question is... what about those Earth Sidhe who evacuated to the stars but didn't come back? Is there a large empire of Earth Sidhe somewhere out there? Would they recognize Fey/Aunghandail as some sort of nobility?


    That is kind of what I'm doing with Diar in my Changeling story. She's pretty much from a Lost garrison of mostly West Court natives, who where lead by a semi-noble house. Still not sure how she's gonna react to Nikki...
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    7 years 10 months ago #60 by Rose Bunny
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    • my own personal Sidhe OC, would as of right now be oblivious to Nikki's aura of importance.
    but yeah, looking at the sidhe students she has met, only Zephyr wasn't impressed.
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