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Question Meanwhile in Castle Groenwald
- Yolandria
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Topic Author
Mistress of the shelter for lost and redeemable Woobies!
- Malady
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That's a very obvious alias...
Just 'cause the grunts have their memories wiped, doesn't mean that the leaders don't remember everything...
Family. Is nice! Even if it's an evil family, they have their morals and things that match most everyone else.
- konzill
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- Dreamer
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Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.
Is it wrong that in my mind I heard the title read in the voice of the announcer from the Super-Friends in the same tone as "Meanwhile in the Hall of Doom".
Meanwhile at Castle Groenwald comments
Just what is in the underground level, sounds scary. Herr Achziger still...alive, at least he is still recovering. Poor Agent Baumgartner, wouldn't wish that fate on my worse enemy. Kessel part of new generation for this mad organization, just great. *facepalms* Dermal substitute, 'It Works', using Greasy's invention to help out Herr Achziger, *skin crawls* And making their own modified version to patent just to undercut a mutant inventor, sickening. Doing that to Greasy and his mutant clients, monsters doesn't seem strong enough to describe them.
Switching persona's that easily, scary to watch. George Richards-Greenwood, is she really his mother or is this an act as well, hard to tell with these two. And a cover for Lillian Groenwald as Lily Richards-Greenwood, living in Greenwood, Iowa, no wonder it is so hard to find her. Great, even worse than I first thought, one of many refuges for her people.
Carrying the closed casket to bury Agent Mauer, Lillian's half-brother Lorenz. Thinking it is just one of many debts of blood Adolf and his wife will pay for. Sandmann and Glas removing the remains from FBI custody, another in their list of crimes. A retrieval mission in Chicago, why do I have a bad feeling this is connected to Bianca somehow.
Sandmann complains about hunger when his nerves get to him, heh. Dang, that dangerous and those kind of individuals operating in Chicago neighborhoods. All to target an up-and-coming scientist with a basement lab in the slums, I would be bored as well. And the lab being under that kind of diner, talk about protection.
Twin mothers, no wonder I thought these two were brothers with the way they act and look. Glas having to put up with Sandmann's antics, it speaks volumes of him to have the self-control not to sock him one after a while of this. Pulling out a firearm like that, Sandmann has guts to do that in a Chicago neighborhood. Killing all 5 men that quickly and deftly, scary power and skill combination. Intimidating Old Jim into revealing what they want to know, Sandmann is the blunt force to Glas's subtle technique.
Brian standing guard, yet makes Old Jim look young in comparison, just how tough is this old guy. Good grief, this lab is ridiculous, mad sciencing out of there must be a pain. Getting the data that easily, going to leave, Sandmann losing his appetite, and minions in ill-fitting purple jumpsuits rush in. Ill-fitting purple jumpsuits, add a mask and it almost sounds like the old Foot Clan outfits from the original TMNT animated series.
Sandmann going CQC with just his fists on the minions, these sound worse than typical street thugs with how they handle their weapons. Down and some dead that fast, brutal. The leader of these minions sounds like a joke, Glas intent on killing him, only for a new player to show up and bowl over the minions. Mutant teen with some GSD, African American with a glowing aura around him.
The kid using one minion held by the ankles to spin around and wipe out the others, classic. And this kid is Jim's nephew, oh boy, Franklin Post finds out what Sandmann and Glas did and they have another problem on their hands. Charged them when he found out the truth, only to get KO'ed by Sandmann's power, too bad.
Lillian in Washington, DC and needing a guide to navigate the place. Persephone Elfmann, interesting how only clients with the proper words and names to back them up can get close to her office, name sounds familiar for some reason. And Ms. Elfmann stands out in her own unique way, sounds like she gets sun than even me.
Lillian's plan, what they will do to the candidate isn't right, ruining someone with a scandal. And that pendant of Ms. Elfmann's, seems to suggest it has some sort of power but what. Manipulating politics for their own ends, sickening.
Old moniker Pelf, wonder if that is important, will we see Persephone Elfmann in a story set in the past of this. Who is this other voice speaking through Persephone, thinking Lillian wants and needs too much. AVARITIA on the back of the pendant, speaking to it and says he/she/it never chose her for her timid nature. Mammonas, oh this is a lot worse than expected, sounds like an ancient entity and bad news to me. And drive more desperate souls to them, never a good thing.
George actually is Lillian aka Lily's son, yikes. Setting off fireworks on the 4th of July, ironic considering his mother's agenda. Freddie Manchester, oldest buddy of George, along with Elektra, Malorie, and the twins Jason and Emma, all there to watch fireworks. Very impressive final fireworks display and way to ask out Elektra. Ah, can see why Elektra would be nervous, wishing it to be George's idea and not his mother's. And way to answer the boy, not shy that Elektra. *groans* Always one in the bunch with a crass sense of humor, had to be Freddie.
Underage drinking and Uncle Rich encourages it, oh brother. And his friends subjected to the Thulean serum as well, just great, how many towns of potential or already superhumans are out there lying in wait. At least it has it limits, physical and mental enhancements plus a single psionic ability, scarier if it were broader than that. All those wishes for power and now George is telling them about Erica, uh oh.
Agents Winslow, Haskel, and Fox all called in by Lillian, she is wondering why Project Prodigal was extended for at least another month. And found the daughter of her brother Jan, and not that simply to take her and bring her in, wonder where she is. Wait, that photo is from years ago it seems, could the girl be Penny?
Kessel may be being raised by a Nazi, but the way he acts when she is gone is like a normal teen. A portable printer, seems to be a devise that can read your thoughts and print them out, images and words, from what it did in response to Kessel's thoughts of Elektra. Better watch is thoughts around that thing from now on. Sandmann and Glas are his uncles Rob and Rick, mad-tech for schimelhorn or devisor tech, interesting. Trip to Des Moines, with the way that boy is thinking I would be scared to be on the road with him nearby.
Yup, I was right, taking an 1 and 45 minute trip in 45 minutes, scary. Safehouse and staging area, they took him on a mission. Scene-screens, market for those I'm sure. They are the Flag Men, local heroes in Des Moines and always have been, yikes, if the public knew who they really were. Destroy the mutant menace, *tries to hold in lunch* Murderous scum.
An energizer with an exotic type of energy, probably a teen who has trouble controlling his powers and everything so far is accidents. A table burning in Union Park, a ruined birthday party from the looks of things and the mutant is a girl, great. Great, Sookie is a friend of the birthday girl who was invited and just wanted a piece of birthday cake, yet the birthday girl's drunken bigot of a father is trying to twist things. And father ignoring his own daughter, ugh. Sara trying to explain it to George, who hopefully can get Sookie out of this alive. Sarabine and Sookie, so Sookie isn't her friend's real name, good.
Sookie, on the run and trying to escape now that she has been outed, wait, Sarabine screw with the video, don't tell me she is a mutant as well. Oh crap! She thinks she can trust the Flag Men because of them saving her father from a mad science experiment gone rogue, this is bad. Glas almost killed her if she hadn't reflexively used her power, purple flames, interesting. And she thinks she can sneak around to avoid them, not knowing they can track her exotic energy signature.
Put to sleep by Sandmann and he just wishes to kill her in cold blood. And giving Kessel the gun to execute the poor girl, at least he got them to leave, maybe there is a way out of this mess. Fires the gun and leaves, saying she might go off so they have to leave.
Yet he spared her, left her a note with instructions and a kit-bashed thing to dampen her energy output, Kessel hasn't been corrupted by them yet enough for cold blooded murder. Sookie Webster, hope this isn't the last we see of her, after what Kessel did for her to have her simply die otherwise would feel like a waste to me.
Great, all those connections to descendants of her grandfather's allies, as if her organization wasn't bad enough already. Ah, good, few contacts in Germany. DeVille Academy, yikes, connections there with Lillian and Green Cross would up the threat big time. No wonder Lillian is so harsh, instructors like those would twist anyone even further.
Underground facilities, typical for these places at this point. Okay, niece isn't Penny, as she is sitting right in front of Lillian and looking much as Lillian did at that age. Madame d'Eon and her niece, Miss van Zyl. Lieke van Zyl, mother died about a year after her father, ouch. 7 years at DeVille Academy and her antics drew their attention in the first place, yikes, sounds like Lillian's niece alright.
Ouch, Lieke ticked off at mention of her father, enraged at him. Negotiating for Lieke to be allowed to leave DeVille without graduating or dying, this is going to be a hell of a deal. Yikes, having a rival with a low-level precog ability intent on killing her, Lieke better leave when she has the chance. Ah, subtle powers only from the sounds of it are allowed, interesting.
Yikes, declared dead and given a new identity just to keep up Deville's reputation. Angelique Greenwood, figures Lillian is ready for this. *eyes bug out* That last part of the deal, brutal doesn't cover it. A path out of the school not known to the student populace, oh course a school like this would have such things as matter of course.
Oh boy, the school drilled into the newly named Angelique constant alertness equal to paranoia. Cafe run by Fils de Reseau, Angelique knows some about them but not all. 2nd time in Paris for Lillian's newly reunited niece, sent on a mission, their field trips take things to a whole new level.
Flashback to last year on the mission, talking to someone named Aurelien and asking where his son is. Lieke going by Evangeline and seducing this man, it seems, with a cover story of being in a nunnery for school before coming there. Nice act of stumbling over her dress skirts to pop the lock on the window and send it swinging open. And leave the room without checking to see if the window is shut properly, Aurelien is being sloppy because of a girl.
Communicator disguised as a gem for an earring, activated by warmth and pressure, nice. Liz annoyed she is behind schedule and got to be with the guy, path clear for Toglia. And Elisabeth la Allard being overwatch, wonder if the fallout from this mission is why she is gunning for Lieke.
Acres d'Allouette, definitely sounds like an old French name to me. And she guessed the nationalities of Aurelien's cousins with ease, one partly due to cologne, the other due to the tag of his shirt sticking out from the collar. Nice comparison to the Three Musketeers. Aaron good at snatching small bits of jewelry unnoticed, sticky fingers that could endanger the mission.
Toglia is very short for his age, though that makes him a good burglar, able to fit into small places with ease. Ugh, attitude on this guy, thinking Lieke is a blonde bimbo. Ruined by an unbalanced urn on an end table setting off the alarm and he is trapped.
Stealing from his own teammate, Aaron is a kleptomaniac. And everyone distracted by Aaron's thefts, at least Toglia might escape. Plan #1 ruined by Aaron and Toglia, all those stolen items falling out as they collide. Plan Zed is to bring in an unpredictable mutant operative called Pantagruel, yikes, that went south fast.
*groans* Aurelian, Albert and Gregory planning to fight...wait, what. A hard-light sword, a side-arm for Albert and Gregory arms surrounded by a PK field, are they all mutants, that is some bad intel not to know that. Okay, only Gregory seems to be a mutant, Aurelian and Albert having gadgets they bought, even a close contact neural disruptor, Pantagruel never stood a chance.
Having to deal with Monsieur la Marque, ouch. Toglia and Aaron both goofed up, as did Liz with the ace she didn't tell her teammates about. Detailed dossier on Aurelian and his two cousins, Aurelian and Albert prop-men like I guessed with Gregory the only mutant. Oh boy, photo of his MID and confirmed he is attending an American boarding school. Whoa, that is an expensive book on the open market, let alone signed by the author.
Figures, she sabotaged the operations with all those things, no way it could that wrong without someone in the know working against them. Empty safe, set-up by the academy to gauge how they would do in such a situation, Angelique is ruthless. No wonder Liz is out to kill her still. At least she realizes the bracelet wasn't worth her life, smart girl.
Sandmann, Glas, Wahrheit, and Sanger all in the same room at once, headache potential rising. Drew Richards is her son's father, always gauging things based on their value to her. Angelique still paranoid even when told her relatives aren't out to get her. Sanger's wife gave birth okay to their daughter who is healthy, great, another innocent for them to brainwash to their beliefs. Named after Sanger's mother, and Lillian still delusional thinking she can bring Hans, Winifred, and Danielle to their side. The kind of mindset that drives the likes of Lillian scares me.
Lillian at what sounds like a political convention in Carrol, IA. Blackmailing their own candidate to go along with their plans, that close to someone in congress, terrifying thought. And releasing it all to the press to ruin him, yet still a lock for 5th District's congressional seat, all to rig things to put their real candidate in place from the sounds of it. Boy, that is a lot of BS she is shoveling to these people. Manipulating them with her power while giving that speech. Don't know how to respond to that, this is on the level of Lex Luthor running for President or another super-villain running for office. Lily aka Lillian in congress would be a nightmare come true.
A lot of details added, some questions answered but a lot more added, and the huge threat Green Cross and Lillian Groenwald really are. Glad her son at least has some morals, not killing Sookie in cold blood, but unless the other kids are like him this is a very dark reveal. How to stop Lillian and Green Cross before they destroy America, talk about a huge goal. Excellent way to reveal all this, introduce us to everyone and show they aren't pure monsters, yet still horrible all the same with their plans.
Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked.

- Wasamon
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Dreamer wrote:
Is it wrong that in my mind I heard the title read in the voice of the announcer from the Super-Friends in the same tone as "Meanwhile in the Hall of Doom".
Considering that's about where the title came from... nope, not at all.
Check this out sometime!

- Kettlekorn
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The bit with the Flag Men was great.
- Katssun
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What an about-face for an organization that was last seen in a bumbling retreat, years of planning foiled mostly by two teenage girls and their adoptive parents.
I mean, just starting off, we saw Lillian and crew blasting off in an emergency shuttle capable of going anywhere in the world from low orbit...and she lands hours away by car from their previous location. That means Castle Groenwald is a less than a day's travel from Bianca or Penny! We knew Lillian was affecting her accent, but I figured she had left her secret childhood behind out of shame. Not so!
Then the callback to Achziger needing to be patched up by Kessel, who is revealed to be Lillian's son.
Now she's allied politically with a host of Mammon, picked up a 7th year DeVille, who would have graduated close to the top of her cohort if not for her rival manifesting as a mutant while at the academy, and between another long-lead set of plans, having demonic allies in D.C., and her own induced empathy power, is a shoe-in to take national political office?
Assuming that's national, since Wikipedia tells me that district is currently obsolete in the real world.
Erica better start living up to Oma's legacy real quick. Or she'll need a little bit more than her new friends and cousin to pull her well-toned tush out of the flames. Lillian still hopes that Hans and Winifred will rejoin the family. But she did not make any mention of those she considers genefilth or are Jewish...or is that one in the same to her?
Maybe Erica should consider seducing her enemy's son away from her, just like her dear Oma and auntie.

- Kettlekorn
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It didn't seem bumbling to me. Especially since we did know at the time that one of those teenage girls had superpowers, all four of the adoptive parents were secret agents, and on top of that they had the assistance of two superheroes. In fact, Groenwald's organization has always seemed like one of the more competent ones. She isn't just a villain; she's a leader.Katssun wrote: What an about-face for an organization that was last seen in a bumbling retreat, years of planning foiled mostly by two teenage girls and their adoptive parents.
- Katssun
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Kettlekorn wrote:
It didn't seem bumbling to me. Especially since we did know at the time that one of those teenage girls had superpowers, all four of the adoptive parents were secret agents, and on top of that they had the assistance of two superheroes.Katssun wrote: What an about-face for an organization that was last seen in a bumbling retreat, years of planning foiled mostly by two teenage girls and their adoptive parents.
Having your rented base be easily infiltrated, your half-brothers defeated by an "inferior race" African-American superhero (who is a baseline), getting punched in the nose by a teen who is now the spitting image of your idol of German purity, betrayed by a selected disciple who doesn't submit to brainwashing, and fleeing wounded, abandoning two of your half-brothers, and skittering off to lick your wounds came off as pretty bumbling to me.
Granted, a lot of that was the fault of Agent "Now Fits in a Bucket!" Baumgartner, and not Lillian herself, but she was overconfident. Hans and Winnie were known quantities, especially the moment they refuse to help, and if they were abducted, Adolf and Margit were sure to follow. She should have known they were coming, and she failed to account for the damage they'd cause in a very short time.
But I agree that now that she's shown her true competence, the depth of her varied plans, her capacity as a leader is scary indeed.
Maybe she was just too emotional invested back then, and wasn't looking at all the angles like she normally does.
- mhalpern
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The Nazi getting a political office does concern me, a little, however it will be glorious when she falls, and her becoming a tool for the power broker, well thats just business as usual, either way the broker will achieve her ends, and if it wasn't Lillian, it would have been someone else she would have added to her collection of political pawns.
Its beautiful really, Lillian was introduced as a potential big bad for gen 2, and here we see her setting herself up to being a pawn in someone else's game. I see something akin to Long Fang confronting Azula happening with Pelf telling Lillian "Don't flatter yourself, you were never even a player" at least that's the dynamic I see...
She has leadership qualities, over a group of people who share her ideals and work ethic, she will not do well when dealing with American government employees, contractors and officials, and she will start to fall apart if too much of her bigotry shows.
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Wasamon
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"bumbling" - I'd object to that adjective, simply because I associate it more with the squid dude in NYC. A bumbling villain's more likely to shoot himself in the foot, literally.
"easy infiltration" - 1) they weren't expecting so quick a response (unexpected tracking device on otherwise normal kid), 2) they weren't expecting Adolf to get help from the Syndicate, 3) they WERE expecting someone from the Syndicate to come by to fix those lingering electrical issues eventually.
"beaten by a baseline" - baseline or not, she had access to an ability that the Groenwalds couldn't replicate, and was good at using it.
"punched in the nose by a teen" - well, she did leave herself open for that one, but those empathic attacks tend to be all-or-nothing.
"fleeing wounded" - please, please. "strategic retreat"

"abandoning two brothers" - of all the people she could have abandoned, those two are the least likely to get caught anyway. She trusted them to know what to do in a situation, and that trust was warranted.
Also, to mhalpern: consider what her actual abilities are. Charismatic empathy, training in oratory and rhetoric, and a calculating mind. Now consider the ramifications if she's caught after some time in office.
Check this out sometime!

- Domoviye
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The villains are competent, flawed, have their own quarks and interests without being cartoony or cliched, and when on the job they're freaking scary. Very human, which can be hard to find in fiction.
I hope we see more of Sookie, she seems like she's got some good potential.
Also poor Greasy, having his invention replicated by an antimutant organization that will easily outmarket him. I hope that's not his main source of income.
- mhalpern
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Wasamon wrote: Also, to mhalpern: consider what her actual abilities are. Charismatic empathy, training in oratory and rhetoric, and a calculating mind. Now consider the ramifications if she's caught after some time in office.
The ramifications are "what do you know, another corrupt politician" the sticky part is what she does when IN office, if she can manage much, as she is going to be dealing with people who don't share her ideals, and she can't use any form of physical threat on without getting sued to next century. She is great at making things go to plan, but she fails at improvisation it seems. Now while that is great for small scale, she is trying to expand, and without the ability to improvise well, she will over reach and fail. For instance, copying Greasy's invention is okay in theory, until you factor in that the patent is probably being protected by either AJG or Sidewinder Holdings or both, some very powerful legal clout, whom can probably prove that the copy has enough key similarities to be a clear derivative, and they are operating under the assumption that it is a poorly protected patent. When that plan backfires, it will disparage her entire campaign message about going against corrupt politicians. Patent law is one of those things that few Americans are ok with being violated, more so than other IP protections, because to many it is part of the American dream, and how many have achieved it, (recent example is Elon Musk) so a politician being found to endorse the violation of Patent Law, it could easy outrage many people.
She is making intricate plans, and executing most of them near perfectly, but because they are so intricate, one of them screwing up can blow back on the others in a BIG way. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) applies to more than just engineering.
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Katssun
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Duly noted, and thanks for responding. If my first post wasn't clear, this story far exceeded my expectations from when I began reading it. Even if I misinterpreted your intention in Eisenmadel 1, pt. 1, loud and clear here. Lillian went from a theme-villain in my eyes, even as she explicitly denounced the prominent Nazi theme villains as boorishWasamon wrote: Kattsun: Being too invested emotionally was certainly one thing that didn't help her in that situation, but let's look at the rest of your list:
[SNIP]
She may be buying into something nasty in exchange for reaching the next height, but she runs a very thorough organization, that is better hidden than I could have ever imagined.
She inspires loyalty. She supports those who rely on her. She cares deeply for her "family" even if she doesn't consider certain others worthy.
Lillian is shown to be a very charismatic leader, who feels very human at the same time. She's even likable, but not without fault, and that is especially important.
She's real, even if I find her beliefs repellent. I want to read more about her, and how she clashes with Erica in the future, since she considers Gina the true heir. Or even if she and Erica never meet face to face again, I want to read more about Lillian and her efforts.
edit:
As for Lillian's political future, she's shown to be subtle. Mammon might get the best of her if she's too greedy and goes too far too fast, but she has been shown to be a long-term planner.
She doesn't even have to be overt about her ideals. Look at what happened to Erica while she was still in Kansas. The entire state declared mutants illegal. Lillian can gently push toward the same goal, supporting those governors who think similarly. She may not have to promote the Aryan ideal itself, but she can push to make the American Heartland "pure" of mutant kind, simply be promoting an agenda that makes them unwanted and move away to more friendly areas.
Introduce bills to cut support to the DPA, while increasing the budget, scope, and authority of the MCO, promote "family first" kinds of agendas, and so on.
That's what makes her really terrifying in the political realm. She's a planner.
- Sir Lee
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Although, thinking of it, there's a possible shortcut, one that would be very convenient to her operations in the meantime: leverage the Congress seat into the Iowa governor's mansion. That would giver her considerable local power and a better platform to aim for the White House.
It was... interesting to see the family interacting as, well, family. In particular, Lillian may be overlooking the fact that her son is first and foremost a teen. And teenagers are very likely to do things that their parents disapprove of. Bluntly speaking, his priorities are not her priorities. His priorities are dating Elektra, hanging with his friends and fiddling with "cool stuff." Ruthlessly killing people just because you don't like their genetic makeup is so down the list that on the first chance he got, he disobeyed his elders.
Also... I couldn't believe that Sandmann is a Blues Brothers fan. Especially considering that Jake and Elwood humiliate and ridicule Illinois Nazis without even trying hard. Glas probably didn't even get the joke.
- Katssun
-
She may be able to get farther with her agenda without even introducing any bills herself. Or maybe she'll easily find cosponsors.
- mhalpern
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Sir Lee wrote: I wonder. Yes, she's charismatic, but at the end of the day she is just one U.S. representative -- a newbie one at that -- among hundreds. Her influence will be limited until/unless she manages to form a sizeable voting block under her guidance. It's not like the real power brokers will be willing to let her set the legislative agenda. And politicking in Congress takes considerable time from one's schedule. I wonder if her plans wouldn't have been better served by placing a minion in that role. If she's aiming for the White House, well, it takes time.
Although, thinking of it, there's a possible shortcut, one that would be very convenient to her operations in the meantime: leverage the Congress seat into the Iowa governor's mansion. That would giver her considerable local power and a better platform to aim for the White House.
It was... interesting to see the family interacting as, well, family. In particular, Lillian may be overlooking the fact that her son is first and foremost a teen. And teenagers are very likely to do things that their parents disapprove of. Bluntly speaking, his priorities are not her priorities. His priorities are dating Elektra, hanging with his friends and fiddling with "cool stuff." Ruthlessly killing people just because you don't like their genetic makeup is so down the list that on the first chance he got, he disobeyed his elders.
Also... I couldn't believe that Sandmann is a Blues Brothers fan. Especially considering that Jake and Elwood humiliate and ridicule Illinois Nazis without even trying hard. Glas probably didn't even get the joke.
Of course there is the possibility that her son is a gadgeteer, and is hiding it
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- mhalpern
-
In a primarily agricultural state? Not that much of an impactKatssun wrote:
Duly noted, and thanks for responding. If my first post wasn't clear, this story far exceeded my expectations from when I began reading it. Even if I misinterpreted your intention in Eisenmadel 1, pt. 1, loud and clear here. Lillian went from a theme-villain in my eyes, even as she explicitly denounced the prominent Nazi theme villains as boorishWasamon wrote: Kattsun: Being too invested emotionally was certainly one thing that didn't help her in that situation, but let's look at the rest of your list:
[SNIP]do-nothingsaccomplish-nothings making more noise than progress, to a very credible threat.
She may be buying into something nasty in exchange for reaching the next height, but she runs a very thorough organization, that is better hidden than I could have ever imagined.
She inspires loyalty. She supports those who rely on her. She cares deeply for her "family" even if she doesn't consider certain others worthy.
Lillian is shown to be a very charismatic leader, who feels very human at the same time. She's even likable, but not without fault, and that is especially important.
She's real, even if I find her beliefs repellent. I want to read more about her, and how she clashes with Erica in the future, since she considers Gina the true heir. Or even if she and Erica never meet face to face again, I want to read more about Lillian and her efforts.
edit:
As for Lillian's political future, she's shown to be subtle. Mammon might get the best of her if she's too greedy and goes too far too fast, but she has been shown to be a long-term planner.
She doesn't even have to be overt about her ideals. Look at what happened to Erica while she was still in Kansas. The entire state declared mutants illegal. Lillian can gently push toward the same goal, supporting those governors who think similarly. She may not have to promote the Aryan ideal itself, but she can push to make the American Heartland "pure" of mutant kind, simply be promoting an agenda that makes them unwanted and move away to more friendly areas.
Introduce bills to cut support to the DPA, while increasing the budget, scope, and authority of the MCO, promote "family first" kinds of agendas, and so on.
That's what makes her really terrifying in the political realm. She's a planner.
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Malady
-
mhalpern wrote:
Sir Lee wrote: It was... interesting to see the family interacting as, well, family. In particular, Lillian may be overlooking the fact that her son is first and foremost a teen. And teenagers are very likely to do things that their parents disapprove of. Bluntly speaking, his priorities are not her priorities. His priorities are dating Elektra, hanging with his friends and fiddling with "cool stuff." Ruthlessly killing people just because you don't like their genetic makeup is so down the list that on the first chance he got, he disobeyed his elders.
Of course there is the possibility that her son is a gadgeteer, and is hiding it
Unlikely 'cause she's probably doing genescan protocols like the Goodkinds did.
WMG: Nimbus or someone like him is messing with her family, 'cause the Greenwoods are the / a Goodkind-replacement of G2...
:facepalm:... Just use the Vanguard (Did I get that right?) as your Nimbus-replacement for that idea.
- Dreamer
-
Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked.

- Malady
-
Dreamer wrote: It was stated in story Kessel was subjected to the treatments and then serum as his mother, which gave him enhanced physical and mental abilities, improved immune system, and one 1 psionic ability without having an active metagene complex. Gadgeteer is a psionic aka psychic ability, listed under ESP with its own separate entry. All the Groenwalds we have seen so far with powers have been subjected to this same thing.
But, Gadgeteerism is different from general ESP... Although, nothing says that mutation is the only way to get typical mutant powers.
Eisenmadel might actually be totally a regular Exemplar, except for lacking a metagene... Or having a totally different metagene.
I've been thinking that Lillian might have some of the Exemplar Syndromes, and is basically an EX like Eisenmadel is...
- Katssun
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That's what she said Hans' breakthrough was. He enhanced Danielle first with a serum that required no genetic tags as receptors or whatever, which repaired her damaged DNA and saved her life. Hans' serum added the tags that the enhancement protocol uses, which Lillian then used on Danielle when she found her and renamed her Miene.
Lillian was also given the enhancement, because she stated that she was stuck living with her grandmother when her father found her and made her powerful and beautiful. Very Tansy, but without the mutation. But, she doesn't say how old she was at the time. Presumably far younger than when she later used it on Erica's mother.
- Malady
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- Arcanist Lupus
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George makes me think of Derek Black . There's hope for him, I think, but only if he is given some good influences. A honeypot won't work though, as he already has a girlfriend.
I'm far less optimistic about the niece's chances of escaping. She's spent over half a decade at a school for criminals. If she has moral fiber to have retained any amount of a conscience through that, she'll probably be drawn in by the loving-kindness of the Groenwalds.
"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
- Sir Lee
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- Malady
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Sir Lee wrote: OTOH, she was trained from a young age to be distrustful and cynical, looking always for Number One. The chances of her drinking the Kool-Aid and becoming a sincere militant white supremacist are quite low. She would betray her new family in a Planck time unit if she saw an upside for her.
So, who's available to offer what upsides? I'm guessing she'll staying around for the upgrades that I think they're planning to give to her?
- Katssun
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Sir Lee wrote: OTOH, she was trained from a young age to be distrustful and cynical, looking always for Number One. The chances of her drinking the Kool-Aid and becoming a sincere militant white supremacist are quite low. She would betray her new family in a Planck time unit if she saw an upside for her.
I'm not so sure. She's a DeVille, who quickly puts the fear into their charges, all abandoned, all orphans.
But the really screwed up part of Lillian's character is that if you qualify as part of her family, she actually really cares for you. She's even loving. It shows in the way she treats Miene, despite her coming from a part of the family that betrayed the cause.
Angelique may be distrustful, cynical, and ambitious, but she hasn't experienced being treated like actual family and part of a trusted inner circle. That can be a very powerful force, especially when it is bolstered by someone with Lillian's powers.
- mhalpern
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Only one upside is needed, the upside of not getting caught when everything starts to collapse. She sees her Aunt's plans falling apart, and she will grab everything she can and git, possibly (probably) sabotaging the escape of the rest of the family, so that she doesn't have anyone hunting her. Simple, ruthless and effective.Malady wrote:
Sir Lee wrote: OTOH, she was trained from a young age to be distrustful and cynical, looking always for Number One. The chances of her drinking the Kool-Aid and becoming a sincere militant white supremacist are quite low. She would betray her new family in a Planck time unit if she saw an upside for her.
So, who's available to offer what upsides? I'm guessing she'll staying around for the upgrades that I think they're planning to give to her?
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Katssun
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- mhalpern
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It can be a powerful force, unless she is so far gone she doesn't WANT it, in any case, even if she does learn to trust them, it is unlikely she will be loyal, when push comes to shove, THEY wont be worth risking HER life for.Katssun wrote:
Sir Lee wrote: OTOH, she was trained from a young age to be distrustful and cynical, looking always for Number One. The chances of her drinking the Kool-Aid and becoming a sincere militant white supremacist are quite low. She would betray her new family in a Planck time unit if she saw an upside for her.
I'm not so sure. She's a DeVille, who quickly puts the fear into their charges, all abandoned, all orphans.
But the really screwed up part of Lillian's character is that if you qualify as part of her family, she actually really cares for you. She's even loving. It shows in the way she treats Miene, despite her coming from a part of the family that betrayed the cause.
Angelique may be distrustful, cynical, and ambitious, but she hasn't experienced being treated like actual family and part of a trusted inner circle. That can be a very powerful force, especially when it is bolstered by someone with Lillian's powers.
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Schol-R-LEA
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Malady wrote: Or having a totally different metagene.
This possibility occurred to me as well. We know that there is at least one form of the MMGC that is significantly different from the most common form - namely, the Bloodline variant. It would be a delicious irony if the Groenwalds actually were mutants all along, going back to the Green Skull, but with a form of the MMGC that their own tests don't recognize - one which their treatment can activate, but which cannot be replicated in others in part because it is, in fact, actually a chemo-devise.
I doubt that this is the case, but it is worth mentioning.
Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
- mhalpern
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Schol-R-LEA wrote:
Malady wrote: Or having a totally different metagene.
This possibility occurred to me as well. We know that there is at least one form of the MMGC that is significantly different from the most common form - namely, the Bloodline variant. It would be a delicious irony if the Groenwalds actually were mutants all along, going back to the Green Skull, but with a form of the MMGC that their own tests don't recognize - one which their treatment can activate, but which cannot be replicated in others in part because it is, in fact, actually a chemo-devise.
I doubt that this is the case, but it is worth mentioning.
Actually that could explain Erica, quite well...
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Iwasforger03
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mhalpern wrote:
Schol-R-LEA wrote:
Malady wrote: Or having a totally different metagene.
This possibility occurred to me as well. We know that there is at least one form of the MMGC that is significantly different from the most common form - namely, the Bloodline variant. It would be a delicious irony if the Groenwalds actually were mutants all along, going back to the Green Skull, but with a form of the MMGC that their own tests don't recognize - one which their treatment can activate, but which cannot be replicated in others in part because it is, in fact, actually a chemo-devise.
I doubt that this is the case, but it is worth mentioning.
Actually that could explain Erica, quite well...
I agree. that would absolutely be the most delicious of ironies... but supposedly they think all the kids in Kessel's friend group might compatible, and whatever the formula was that Erica took, the first attempt at replicating it did seem to induce SOME kind of powers in Cousin Penny.
I am a Sexy Shoeless God of War - So suck it CP!
Dice/Hollow#1
Dice/HollowDiscuss
- mhalpern
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Iwasforger03 wrote:
mhalpern wrote:
Schol-R-LEA wrote:
Malady wrote: Or having a totally different metagene.
This possibility occurred to me as well. We know that there is at least one form of the MMGC that is significantly different from the most common form - namely, the Bloodline variant. It would be a delicious irony if the Groenwalds actually were mutants all along, going back to the Green Skull, but with a form of the MMGC that their own tests don't recognize - one which their treatment can activate, but which cannot be replicated in others in part because it is, in fact, actually a chemo-devise.
I doubt that this is the case, but it is worth mentioning.
Actually that could explain Erica, quite well...
I agree. that would absolutely be the most delicious of ironies... but supposedly they think all the kids in Kessel's friend group might compatible, and whatever the formula was that Erica took, the first attempt at replicating it did seem to induce SOME kind of powers in Cousin Penny.
it is established that the MCO sequencers are Yes/No machines, presumably most screening just searches for the common gene complexes and if they are active, we know that the common MMGC often has a stress trigger activation, it could be this MMGC needs a chemical key (the prep serum) and Eric's stress did the rest.
Any Bad Ideas I have and microscene OC character stories are freely adoptable.
- Malady
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- Arcanist Lupus
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Maybe it could. But none of these characters are really connected to the WU magical community (If anything, being so firmly in the "mad science" community probably prejudices them against it). They'd have to think of the idea, and then find someone who could perform the spells for them, and then they'll probably get all sorts of false positives and other weird results, especially considering the unnatural things that have been done to their bloodline.Malady wrote: ... I forget, Sympathetic Blood Link Magic or whatever can't find the missing Abendritter? Or the Gorenwalds?
"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
- Wasamon
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Blues Brothers was a particularly popular movie for a pair of mismatched almost-twins from southern Illinois back in the day. There's a level of cognitive dissonance when it comes to the Illinois Nazis and themselves, partly because no one likes to identify with the baddies too much and partly because the Groenwalds as a whole don't mentally group themselves with the standard American Fascist Party or white nationalists (i.e. "posers"). Sure, they share a lot of the basic politics and mindset, but they also consider themselves a step above "Those Wacky Nazis" and the like.
Basically, in-canon Glas and Sandmann just don't see themselves in the Illinois Nazis. Out-of-canon, I needed a good model for their personalities, speech patterns, and interaction when it became apparent that they were going to be more than bit villains, and a dash of Jake and Elwood worked quite well.
As for the way the power enhancements work... I'm still working on this, but Opa's full explanation will likely include epigenetic marker tags, homeotic boxes and vestigial trait appearance, and the ubermensch theory of Ultima Thule in Nazi myth.
Finally, Kessel is for all intents and purposes a gadgeteer. He has an intuitive ESP trait that allows him to quickly discern the function, use, and potential of technology, which he can then repair, upgrade, combine, or reverse engineer as needed. On the other hand, his ability to innovate is still limited by experience, and he's not that good at making completely new stuff. Almost all the items he produces for the family are derivative of something else, if adapted and altered to enough of an extent that under patent law they can be considered different enough to count as an alternate means to achieve the same end.
Check this out sometime!

- Katssun
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I don't know if I missed it, but how old is George supposed to be?
- Valentine
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Wasamon wrote: OK, random responses to stuff:
Blues Brothers was a particularly popular movie for a pair of mismatched almost-twins from southern Illinois back in the day. There's a level of cognitive dissonance when it comes to the Illinois Nazis and themselves, partly because no one likes to identify with the baddies too much and partly because the Groenwalds as a whole don't mentally group themselves with the standard American Fascist Party or white nationalists (i.e. "posers"). Sure, they share a lot of the basic politics and mindset, but they also consider themselves a step above "Those Wacky Nazis" and the like.
Basically, in-canon Glas and Sandmann just don't see themselves in the Illinois Nazis. Out-of-canon, I needed a good model for their personalities, speech patterns, and interaction when it became apparent that they were going to be more than bit villains, and a dash of Jake and Elwood worked quite well.
As for the way the power enhancements work... I'm still working on this, but Opa's full explanation will likely include epigenetic marker tags, homeotic boxes and vestigial trait appearance, and the ubermensch theory of Ultima Thule in Nazi myth.
Finally, Kessel is for all intents and purposes a gadgeteer. He has an intuitive ESP trait that allows him to quickly discern the function, use, and potential of technology, which he can then repair, upgrade, combine, or reverse engineer as needed. On the other hand, his ability to innovate is still limited by experience, and he's not that good at making completely new stuff. Almost all the items he produces for the family are derivative of something else, if adapted and altered to enough of an extent that under patent law they can be considered different enough to count as an alternate means to achieve the same end.
Southern Illinois????
Even Chicagoans don't count Joliet as Southern Illinois. They count it as the SouthWest corner of Northern Illinois. (Elwood is kind of the new corner there, of Northern Illinois, as it has the furthest SW part of the Chicago RTA currently.)
Sorry a bit of a pet peeve of mine. I grew up in Joliet, and my parents currently live in Elwood.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- Wasamon
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The fact that Jake and Elwood were from farther north, and not anything like local kids, only made them cooler to emulate.
Check this out sometime!

- Schol-R-LEA
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(And yes, I know that there's more to the town than just the prison, but that is what most people outside of the area think of when they hear the name 'Joliet' in a context other than CD-R formats.)
Out, damnéd Spot! Bad Doggy!
- Valentine
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Schol-R-LEA wrote: I always had the impression that he was called Joliet Jake because of all the time he spent there - involuntarily. I haven't seen the movie in a long time, though, nor am I really familiar with the other Blues Brothers stuff not from the original film.
(And yes, I know that there's more to the town than just the prison, but that is what most people outside of the area think of when they hear the name 'Joliet' in a context other than CD-R formats.)
Being from Joliet originally, I can tell you that the city does have other things besides that Prison. There is the County Jail, the City Jail, a Juvenile Prison, and Stateville Prison.

Joliet also has one of the prettiest high schools I have ever seen.
It has everything a city of its size would be expected to have and a river with concrete sides.
(I was very confused why other rivers didn't have concrete sides as a little kid.)
And a quaint little theatre I watched movies in as a little kid.
I went and saw the Flying karamazov Brothers much later, and ran into them after the show "oohing and aahing" over the lobby.
Don't Drick and Drive.
- DanZilla
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Schol-R-LEA wrote: I always had the impression that he was called Joliet Jake because of all the time he spent there - involuntarily. I haven't seen the movie in a long time, though, nor am I really familiar with the other Blues Brothers stuff not from the original film.
Heh... far as I recall, not having watched the movie in a good time myself... They visit the "Penguin" in the orphanage they were raised at in Chicago... still further North than Southern Illinois but not Joliet... and, yeah, his nickname was from the prison time as far as I can recall.
- Arcanist Lupus
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It looks like a castle!Valentine wrote: Joliet also has one of the prettiest high schools I have ever seen.
<snip>
The LA river has concrete sides! It's just missing the water.(I was very confused why other rivers didn't have concrete sides as a little kid.)
"Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson