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Question The Hand You're Dealt

7 years 6 months ago #1 by Dreamer
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    • A new Gen 2 story by elrod with Card Trick, enjoy and comment.
    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    7 years 6 months ago #2 by Rose Bunny
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    • I found it very interesting, since I have a character that went through similar things. It's good to see Valerie not forgotten, and tossed on the pile of victims. A new life would be interesting, but I'm hoping there isn't something piggy-backing itself to her, growing and waiting to come out. If she reaches maturity and has a shift into a snake, that's going to make a LOT of people very nervous.
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    7 years 6 months ago #3 by Malady
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    • Woah! What the heck. She's alive, or getting better or something! So many FEELS!

    So, Grimes did some sort of Soul-Reminding spell on an Animan before... I guess there's some reason it might not be a good idea for the age-regressed or something??

    Demanifestation is a thing?!?! ... What does Kodiak have to say about this??
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    7 years 6 months ago #4 by Dreamer
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    • SPOILER ALERT
    Below is a stream of conscious commentary I type up as I read the story. There will details from the story included in it. If you have not read the story yet and don't wish to have details of it spoiled, read no further.


    The Hand You're Dealt comments
    Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
    Thank You for story comments appreciated and help me know me they are being read and liked. :-) Note: My story comments can't nor are trying to replace reading the stories, simply my way of enjoying them and letting the authors know I enjoy them.
    7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #5 by Angeldude
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    • My first thought upon reading the title and codename was a probability warper. My second thought was Nerris from Camp Camp who's a stage magician was real magic. (His parents are terrified of him.)

    Valerie Hinson. Mage, rating Wiz-3. Code-name Card Trick.


    Called it! B)

    [EDIT] Didn't realize she was en existing character since I hadn't read the Kayda stories. Still felt good, though.
    Insanity: for when normal just isn't interesting enough.
    All ideas free to use. You can probably make better use of them than me.
    Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Angeldude.
    7 years 6 months ago #6 by Valentine
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    • I have to say, while reading the story, the whole time they were looking for foster parents my mind was going Jade and Thuban! OK not really, it was going Kayda's parents. They are close to HPARC, have dealt with raising 2 (3) mutant children, know Valerie, like Valerie, and would (most likely) have no reservations taking her in. It would be easy for Kayda to monitor her for a re-emergence of a Mythos Trait, and Valerie would have a slightly older sibling as a role model.

    But hey more chaos for Laura.

    From the story [ Click to expand ]
    Don't Drick and Drive.
    7 years 6 months ago #7 by Arcanist Lupus
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    • Ouch. Such a quietly sad story.

    It's bad enough raising children when there isn't a possibility that they're inadvertently evil.

    They should really change her name. It's going to be hard enough for her to escape the shadow of her previous life - symbolically demonstrating that they don't expect her to be their former friend and teammate would probably help.
    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    7 years 6 months ago #8 by Yolandria
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    • The one thing i'm not 100% sure on is the ending. How can we have Mrs Carson + Laura in the same story without a time jump. Or a more complete explanation. Hmmm
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    7 years 6 months ago #9 by DanZilla
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    • Yolandria wrote: The one thing i'm not 100% sure on is the ending. How can we have Mrs Carson + Laura in the same story without a time jump. Or a more complete explanation. Hmmm


    If you pay attention to the dates it goes from June 2016 when we see Carson talking to September 2016 when Elaine Claire says ""Mrs. Carson was working the issue..."

    So, yep... time jumped.
    7 years 6 months ago #10 by Anne
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    • Arcanist Lupus wrote: Ouch. Such a quietly sad story.

    It's bad enough raising children when there isn't a possibility that they're inadvertently evil.

    They should really change her name. It's going to be hard enough for her to escape the shadow of her previous life - symbolically demonstrating that they don't expect her to be their former friend and teammate would probably help.


    Well I'm sure of one thing they won't treat her like Mackenzie Blaise was treated in MU... Okay that's a different universe but suspecting your child of evil is not a good thing. Treat them like they are evil and they will believe it.
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    7 years 6 months ago #11 by pumpernickel
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    • Sounds like ARC needs some serious restructuring and a complete change of personel. ARC is basically the SCP Foundation; the lovechild of NASA, the Phantom Zone, and warehouse from the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's where they send the dangerous stuff that can't be dealt with to hopefully be contained and concealed until the end of time. But these chuckleheads, including the new director, have a person who was sealed away, obviously for some reason (and they KNOW she was involved in a fight with a major class X demon!), and they decide to just start pushing buttons and flipping switches to see what'll happen.

    Okay, some of the records were lost and damaged, but NO ONE thought it might be a good idea to ask some questions about this person before poking her with a stick? This place is supposed to be staffed by professional researchers, the tops of the fields. But none of them thought to actually research what the situation was with this woman and what the lost records might contain. I mean, at least put in a call to another branch or a different organization. Drop a line to HPARC, or Whately, or any of the people listed in what records they DO have. Like, not even a specific call, but just the next time you happen to be calling Whateley, just kind of casually bring up, "Oh yeah, Liz, one more thing before I go. What happened with this Card Trick person?"

    But nope, these goons just said, "Forget the safety and common sense, chums, let's do this! LEEROOOOOOOOY! JENNNNNKIIIINS!" Fire them. Fire every one of them right now.:silly:
    7 years 6 months ago #12 by elrodw
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    • But if we fired everyone who didn't think first, or if everyone DID think first, I wouldn't have a basis for stories involving Card Trick, would I .....
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    7 years 6 months ago #13 by Katssun
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    • "I can't find any trace of mythos contamination," the shaman-girl reported sadly. "But then again, I was dead-certain that she was clean before you did the healing."

    "How did this slip past, then?"

    "I guess I'm not infallible," the shaman admitted sadly. "At least she's got a life ahead of her. It could have been a lot worse." She shuddered involuntarily as she spoke the last words; she'd seen, first-hand, the results of some magic on mythos-contaminated people. "I'll review what I found with your staff mage. Maybe she'll spot something that I can't see."


    At least Kayda admits that her record of definitely finding all the mythos taint around her hasn't been particularly great...she's learning!

    Maybe Vanessa and Jake, Aunties Kayda and Deb can reform the little hellspawn that's taken residence in Valerie's body. :P

    That assumes Lanie's twins don't get to her first!
    7 years 6 months ago #14 by MM2ss
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    • I have something of a background with academics and research. Social Science and Sociology are all about that sort of thing. In the world of research and academia people often get lost and focus on the research side of things. They get this idea and focus on it like a laser. The "getting lost" part is that the obvious is often missed. Common sense, logic and basic questions sometimes get pushed aside in the quest for that ever elusive "higher knowledge and understanding".

    I could easily envision something like this happening. All because people (myself included) start thinking in terms of "subjects" instead of "person/people/fellow human beings". That is why we have so many guidelines on the "proper" way to conduct studies. But even with those in place in our own reality violations are not exactly uncommon. In a world where things would be infinitely more complex (due to mutants, demons, powers, etc.) it would likely be even easier for such an incident to happen.

    Scientist take leave of their common sense all the time, for that matter, so do "ordinary" people... How many folks do you know that are always looking for the next new diet pill when common sense tells us that the key to weight control is based on calories in vs. calories out? That is a minor example of course. But true, we all want to find that diet where you shed pounds while eating cake and watching TV instead of controlling what you eat and doing exercise. A more serious example, scientist program a multi million or billion dollar space craft in the wrong units of measurement and the thing face plants into Mars. That does not impact a human so much, but common sense says to check your units, we learned that in 3rd grade... For human related events, just look at some of the stuff done in the US in recent history. Back in the 50's the US Navy sprayed San Francisco with Serratia marcescens causing numerous issues and at least one death. A doctor from the University of Pennsylvania deliberately infected some 200 people with viral hepatitis... There are numerous other incidents as well, and that is just in the USA. Moving to world wide the number of incidents becomes truly staggering.
    7 years 6 months ago #15 by Kaitha39
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    • Anne wrote: Well I'm sure of one thing they won't treat her like Mackenzie Blaise was treated in MU... Okay that's a different universe but suspecting your child of evil is not a good thing. Treat them like they are evil and they will believe it.

    To go off-topic for a second: Given that Martha Blaise's intention was to stop Mack from ever being hangry-Mack and to live under Martha's thumb, she did actually do a good job raising her, with the caveat that she didn't stop Mack from leaving home.
    - It's just a shame that it came at detriment to allowing Mack to actually, you know, be raised up as a person capable of being an adult, on her own two feet. Instead, in the first few chapters, she's so fearful of being evil she's ironically somewhat innocent. It'd be interesting to see what a well-adjusted half-demon in that world looks like.

    In regards to THYD; I agree it seems a bit weird for ARC-Black's people to suggest healing anyone they have. ARC-Red's people, sure, obviously, they're the psychiatrists. But IIRC Black was the "you're such a risk we can't even try normal prison, you have to be a popsicle" so you kinda expect that their SOP is a Prison-esque "People check in, they don't check out."
    Unless I'm remembering the Merry stories wrong. It's been a long while.

    But you know, I look forward to seeing what the future holds for Val and the plot twists here. Especially if some idiot in the MCO seems to think they can re-create the "Taint with Mythos then heal" method of demanifestation. Possible self-suicide of the organisation in the making? If the KoP were brought down by lawyers winning for reckless endangerment of one mutant, and then the floodgates opening, how would the MCO survive the litigation opened by doing THAT?
    Any stories or Characters I put out are available to write around. Feel free to borrow them!
    7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #16 by Rose Bunny
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    • Kaitha39 wrote:

    Anne wrote: In regards to THYD; I agree it seems a bit weird for ARC-Black's people to suggest healing anyone they have. ARC-Red's people, sure, obviously, they're the psychiatrists. But IIRC Black was the "you're such a risk we can't even try normal prison, you have to be a popsicle" so you kinda expect that their SOP is a Prison-esque "People check in, they don't check out."
    Unless I'm remembering the Merry stories wrong. It's been a long while.


    Well, I think that the "Roach Motel" analogy you made is true when it comes to the downright evil, or those so heavily tainted that there is little chance at redemption. But this is a person they thought was a candidate because they were once a hero, and they were a blank slate. And they kinda got the Six Million Dollar Man thing going when they had new spells to try. "We can rebuild her, we have the technology" Best case, they get that person back. More than likely it fails, and a second re-thaw would be unlikely... so no harm, no foul. They didn't know about the mythos. but hey, if it succeeded or failed, they get space back in the (very likely) overcrowded cryo-area.Her records were damaged, so they didn't know about the mythos, if they had, they would not have attempted what they did.

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    Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Rose Bunny.
    7 years 6 months ago #17 by Anne
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    • There was also the huge 'study' of syphilis conducted in the pre world war II era on Negroes in the south.
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    7 years 6 months ago #18 by Hardric
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    • elrodw wrote: But if we fired everyone who didn't think first, or if everyone DID think first, I wouldn't have a basis for stories involving Card Trick, would I .....


    True, but such an oversight still feel a bit jarring. I mean, I understand that's needed for the plot to unfold, but nobody ever mentionned Mythos Magic outside the reports? And it's not like ARC put the random ducker in Black level. And, I dunno, the way the mail arrives juuuust after the thawing feels a little forced and 'welp, plot advanced, now you've got the info'. Maybe a little more speculation between the thawing and receiving the mail, or mentionning they mailed Sonderson after the procedure to ask for explanations?

    To be honest, that reminds me of Gunny's exigences of Kayda learning offensive magic. It led to Hekate's Master, but retrospectively, I find hard to swallow that someone as competent as Gunny wouldn't have checked out with Lodgeman and magic teachers (especially since magic is probably a blindspot for him) why there was such an obvious hole in Kayda's learning, and the reasons for that hole. I doubt he would have said such things if he had known offensive shaman magic = near-Mythos levels of nasty. And not just Kayda, but checking out with other teachers and the like to make sure what he can and cannot recommend to students after simulations to students feels like a really gross oversight with hindsight.

    Katssun wrote: At least Kayda admits that her record of definitely finding all the mythos taint around her hasn't been particularly great...she's learning!


    You say that as if Kayda 'Insecurities' Franks would ever pretend she's perfect and couldn't have missed the insidious and highly dangerous magic taint, because she's just that perfect (which also affected her if I remember the fight right).


    Still, I salute this story, and the second chance it offers to Card Trick. Now all we have to do is wait to see how this unfolds...
    7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #19 by Rose Bunny
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    • As far as Gunny is concerned, Hardic, It's not like he doesn't have a history of throwing people into sim situations without understanding the consequences, or talking about things he has no knowledge of. Remember, he did traumatize two teams so severely they nearly broke apart, simply based on one sim he put them both in.
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    Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Rose Bunny.
    7 years 6 months ago #20 by Hardric
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    • Rose Bunny wrote: As far as Gunny is concerned, Hardic, It's not like he doesn't have a history of throwing people into sim situations or talking about things he has no knowledge of. Remember, he did traumatize two teams so severely they nearly broke apart, simply based on one sim he put them both in.


    Frankly, that blooper feel really jarring when I read it to me too. The way Gunny is bent of remembering students 'life is unpredictable' and the likes... But forget that just because that's a simulation that deons't mean he controls all the factors. A lesson to be learned there. And I felt the 'heads and tails' at the end of that story, and his reluctance to admit he screwed up in the one after that a bit... I'm not really surprised the gravepine decided he had sacked Wondercute on purpose. And there is the fact in my opinion, psychology should have been involved with the simulations long before that episode, especially when we see how much brainstorming go in things like Combat Finals. Wondercute/STAR League cannot be the first time something like that happened.

    And there are the simulations before that in the backstory. Gunny always looked like someone though, but fair, and doing his homework.
    7 years 6 months ago #21 by MM2ss
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    • Gunny really reminds me of some people I knew in the service. My first Chief (senior military instructor as RTC) was GMC(ss) Lockhart. He was unique in a way. He always seemed so certain of everything he did, but not arrogant. He had a system, it worked, that was all you needed to know... It was fine like that, until something changed. Something no one had thought of or seen before evidently. It forced Chief to change how he did things. But even then he never made any admission that he was wrong about something in any way (or at least not publicly, maybe he beat himself up over it at night, I don't know).

    Another Chief had two rules... 1: Chief is always right. 2:If Chief is not right, you misunderstood and see rule 1. Again, great guy, completely off his rocker (he liked going into the gas chamber with no mask and joined the entire division in singing ALL the verses to Anchors Aweigh) but he would never admit to a recruit that he was in any way wrong about something or that there was something he had not considered.

    The military had lots of folks like that. I may have been like that at times, maybe... To steal a line from "The DI", "I may not always be exactly right, sir, but I'm never wrong." (Great movie, I highly advise watching it)

    What people don't see is what those individuals do when they are alone. The reflection, the self-castigation, the wondering "what else could I have done's" and so on. I filed reports and counseling statements on many a Sailor. I presented the no nonsense this is how we do things by the book look during the process. Alone, in my bunk, I beat myself senseless wondering what I could have done differently to keep that Sailor from getting to the point that I felt I had to write them up or even recommend NJP...
    7 years 6 months ago #22 by Domoviye
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    • Rose Bunny wrote: As far as Gunny is concerned, Hardic, It's not like he doesn't have a history of throwing people into sim situations without understanding the consequences, or talking about things he has no knowledge of. Remember, he did traumatize two teams so severely they nearly broke apart, simply based on one sim he put them both in.


    That sim went bad only after the one girl had her arm chopped off. Then everything went to hell in a hand basket. The injury was unexpected, and the reaction to it, going into a rage rather than catatonic or fleeing for her life was not exactly normal although still very possible.

    Without the injury it would have been disheartening for Wondercute, but hardly group shattering.

    Now with the story, nothing in it needed my suspension of disbelief (at least once the magic and superpowers are put in their proper place). There was nothing marked as dangerous on Card Trick's surviving files, it was more like, she's a hero, we don't want her dying of old age if we can help herlater, shove her in the freezer.
    The reaction after the healing almost went bad worked great. As did their attempts to help her adjust as a child.
    I particularly like how she isn't a wonderful little girl, having some behavioural problems fits the sitution perfectly. And having the Barton's look after her put a smile on my face.
    All in all, it was a sweet yet tragic, realistic story. Definitely in the top five for Elrod stories, and top ten for Whateley in general.
    7 years 6 months ago #23 by pumpernickel
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    • Rose Bunny wrote: As far as Gunny is concerned, Hardic, It's not like he doesn't have a history of throwing people into sim situations without understanding the consequences, or talking about things he has no knowledge of. Remember, he did traumatize two teams so severely they nearly broke apart, simply based on one sim he put them both in.


    I've always felt it weird that Gunny is allowed within a 1000 yards of children. Like, this is a high school - and for some kids, the only one they can attend - not a military academy that kids who want to be soldiers have elected to come to. I understand they want to prepare kids for a world that's often hostile for them, but this is a little bit extreme deep end. The only reason Gunny isn't legally a psychopath is because they haven't created a rubber stamp big enough for him.

    Domoviye wrote: That sim went bad only after the one girl had her arm chopped off.


    See, this should be a condemnation, not an excuse. He put them in a situation where dismemberment was even a possibility. Some of these kids are here because they HAVE to be. Some kids could go to a regular school, but choose to go to Whately for the top notch education. But some have to go here because for one reason or another, they can't attend a normal school. And everyone has to do sims anyway. A girl had HER ARM CUT OFF. In the mandatory combat finals for Spring 2007, Hippolyta was thrown out a third story window and impaled on rebar spikes. She almost died, and she's a level 6 regenerator. Just about anyone would have died. If this happened at any other school, the whole place would be shut down instantly. But here at Whately, not only is this normal, not only does no one question it, not only is it compulsary, but everyone makes a show of it. It's broadcast and bet on in Vegas. It's madness.

    ....Uh, I've kinda digressed from the initial point. My point was that Gunny Bardue is clearly a sadist and it's confounding that they let him near kids at all, much less program sims for them.
    7 years 6 months ago #24 by Domoviye
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    • pumpernickel wrote:

    Rose Bunny wrote: As far as Gunny is concerned, Hardic, It's not like he doesn't have a history of throwing people into sim situations without understanding the consequences, or talking about things he has no knowledge of. Remember, he did traumatize two teams so severely they nearly broke apart, simply based on one sim he put them both in.


    I've always felt it weird that Gunny is allowed within a 1000 yards of children. Like, this is a high school - and for some kids, the only one they can attend - not a military academy that kids who want to be soldiers have elected to come to. I understand they want to prepare kids for a world that's often hostile for them, but this is a little bit extreme deep end. The only reason Gunny isn't legally a psychopath is because they haven't created a rubber stamp big enough for him.

    Domoviye wrote: That sim went bad only after the one girl had her arm chopped off.


    See, this should be a condemnation, not an excuse. He put them in a situation where dismemberment was even a possibility. Some of these kids are here because they HAVE to be. Some kids could go to a regular school, but choose to go to Whately for the top notch education. But some have to go here because for one reason or another, they can't attend a normal school. And everyone has to do sims anyway. A girl had HER ARM CUT OFF. In the mandatory combat finals for Spring 2007, Hippolyta was thrown out a third story window and impaled on rebar spikes. She almost died, and she's a level 6 regenerator. Just about anyone would have died. If this happened at any other school, the whole place would be shut down instantly. But here at Whately, not only is this normal, not only does no one question it, not only is it compulsary, but everyone makes a show of it. It's broadcast and bet on in Vegas. It's madness.

    ....Uh, I've kinda digressed from the initial point. My point was that Gunny Bardue is clearly a sadist and it's confounding that they let him near kids at all, much less program sims for them.


    But Phoenix Fire and her team are training to be superheroes. Wondercute has knowingly and willingly gone into some of the toughest sims and against the toughest teams for fun. So they get sims that are tougher than normal. Also they are sims, not dangerous unless tampered with.

    Hypolita is training to be a superhero as well, but she went off like a maniac and had a freak accident. If she had landed a foot to the right, or if she had gone in intelligently she'd have had some bruises.

    More teenage girls are severely injured and paralyzed in cheerleading than we've seen injured at Whateley, but they keep pushing the stunts to ever riskier heights.

    As for Gunny, the only time most students see him is if they apply for classes at the range and in sims. So unless they go out of their way most students will see him maybe ten or fifteen times a year for mandatory team training and combat finals.
    7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #25 by Arcanist Lupus
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    • Going back to the decision about reviving Valerie, it's worth noting that she was iced, not dead. I mean, obviously she isn't dead, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. But think about what it implies. If they iced her rather than pulling the plug, that implies one of several options. A) She is too difficult to safely destroy, B ) she is too useful (or potentially useful) to dispose of, or C) there is hope that she might someday be awakened. As a bog-standard Wiz 3, choices A and B are unlikely to apply. Therefore the people who originally treated her thought that there was hope that she could be revived.

    Obviously, there was still a great deal of hubris involved in giving the go-ahead before completing the verification. But it makes the choice seem more believable in my mind. It would have rang even truer if they had made the decision before they figured out that her file was compromised. The excuse that "it wasn't in her file" is a bit hollow when they already know that the file is compromised.



    The director nodded with a serious frown. "As of right now, every bit of documentation, every conversation, everything about this is classified. Access is need to know, TS or higher clearance, my level or higher approval only."

    By the by, this line bothered me. Isn't everything that requires clearance need to know? That bit seems redundant.

    Ah, well, I guess the director is new... :D
    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Arcanist Lupus.
    7 years 6 months ago #26 by Valentine
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    • pumpernickel wrote:

    Rose Bunny wrote: As far as Gunny is concerned, Hardic, It's not like he doesn't have a history of throwing people into sim situations without understanding the consequences, or talking about things he has no knowledge of. Remember, he did traumatize two teams so severely they nearly broke apart, simply based on one sim he put them both in.


    I've always felt it weird that Gunny is allowed within a 1000 yards of children. Like, this is a high school - and for some kids, the only one they can attend - not a military academy that kids who want to be soldiers have elected to come to. I understand they want to prepare kids for a world that's often hostile for them, but this is a little bit extreme deep end. The only reason Gunny isn't legally a psychopath is because they haven't created a rubber stamp big enough for him.

    Domoviye wrote: That sim went bad only after the one girl had her arm chopped off.


    See, this should be a condemnation, not an excuse. He put them in a situation where dismemberment was even a possibility. Some of these kids are here because they HAVE to be. Some kids could go to a regular school, but choose to go to Whately for the top notch education. But some have to go here because for one reason or another, they can't attend a normal school. And everyone has to do sims anyway. A girl had HER ARM CUT OFF. In the mandatory combat finals for Spring 2007, Hippolyta was thrown out a third story window and impaled on rebar spikes. She almost died, and she's a level 6 regenerator. Just about anyone would have died. If this happened at any other school, the whole place would be shut down instantly. But here at Whately, not only is this normal, not only does no one question it, not only is it compulsary, but everyone makes a show of it. It's broadcast and bet on in Vegas. It's madness.

    ....Uh, I've kinda digressed from the initial point. My point was that Gunny Bardue is clearly a sadist and it's confounding that they let him near kids at all, much less program sims for them.


    During a period of around 8 years, 3 out of a group of 4 siblings all died of heart attacks while doing a run in PE class. Should the PE Instructors be held responsible? Should the school be shut down? I should point that the youngest sibling didn't die, but was not let out of PE class her senior year which is when all of her older siblings died. During practice for one of the school plays, a girl tripped and fell off the stage breaking her arm, should the play be cancelled? (Hell, I went to the ER every year I was in high school for some sort of injury I got in PE class.)

    Gunny is not in charge of setting school policy, just like my high school was not in charge of setting PE requirements. If Gunny were a sadist, he would not of worried about what happened to Wondercute happening again, he would actually work against protections. Gunny is what he is, and that isn't a sadist.

    You emphatically said a girl had her arm cut off. No, a computer simulation had its arm cut off. (OK Tennyo had her arm cut off, but it got better).

    This is not a normal high school, and the students are not normal students.
    Don't Drick and Drive.
    7 years 6 months ago #27 by Hardric
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    • Arcanist Lupus wrote: It would have rang even truer if they had made the decision before they figured out that her file was compromised. The excuse that "it wasn't in her file" is a bit hollow when they already know that the file is compromised.


    Yes, that's the sort of thing I meant. I guess they e-mailed Sorenson (off-screen) at the moment they knew the file was compromised to know about the file's specifics, but the fact they didn't wait to get the intel is a rather gross oversight, and complaining about faulty intel when you act upon it knowing that it is faulty is quite unprofessionnal, especially at the level ARC plays. And in my opinion, the fact the mail arrives right at the moment they ask themselves what was the snag make this even more glaring.
    7 years 6 months ago #28 by DanZilla
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    • Okay guys... since Gunny Bardue isn't in this story let's return this thread to talk about The Hand You're Dealt and if you want to talk about gunny take it to a different thread. Perhaps the one for All The King's Horses or start a character thread for Gunny Bardue.
    7 years 6 months ago #29 by MM2ss
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    • Arcanist Lupus wrote:

    The director nodded with a serious frown. "As of right now, every bit of documentation, every conversation, everything about this is classified. Access is need to know, TS or higher clearance, my level or higher approval only."

    By the by, this line bothered me. Isn't everything that requires clearance need to know? That bit seems redundant.

    Ah, well, I guess the director is new... :D


    Yes and no. Remember there are varied levels of security classifications. The way it is used and expressed is similarly strange at times.

    On one end we have things that are unclassified. At the other, you have top secret.

    There are levels between those. There are also additions to further restrict access to material.

    If I remember my training (it has been a while) the order is essentially: unclassified, sensitive but unclassified, official use only, NOFORN(no foreign nationals), public trust, confidential, secret, top secret. Each of these may be further restricted by adding a code word which means the information is not only classified but is also being treated under the sensitive compartmented information policy (meaning merely having the right clearance is not enough to access it, you would also have to have the proper code word). Some folks view this as "higher than top secret", which is not exactly the case but it does explain how it works. There is also the possibility for other special access programs in the classification and information control system. In theory there could be information viewable by only a very few select individuals and no person outside of those few would even know the information exist or that there is a special access program for them. We have a history of conducting such policies that we have acknowledged and it is not unreasonable to think there may be some that we have now admitted to as well.

    I took the statement to be a declaration of the level of security being assigned. The director just cut out all the interim, confidential and secret level clearance holders with the TS designation. Then, the "need to know only" part seems to indicate that it is being treated under code word/special access guidelines as well, further restricting who can access the data.
    7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #30 by Sir Lee
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    • Arcanist Lupus wrote: By the by, this line bothered me. Isn't everything that requires clearance need to know? That bit seems redundant.

    Not quite. MM2ss gave the technical explanation, I'll give the simplified one:
    "Classified" means "only people above a certain level can access it." Like, in ARC's case, probably only director-level-and-up can access the file.
    "Need to know" means that, even if someone IS in that level (say, the CFO), they can't read that file just because they are curious -- they have to make a case that they really need that info. And as long as it does not involve large amounts of money, the CFO has no reason to be included in the loop.

    Or, to put it in terms of network file restrictions:
    "Classified" means that you need to be part of a certain usergroup to have access to the file.
    "Need to know" means that the file has an individual password.

    You can have classified files that are not need to know -- they are in the "High Management" folder, only people in the "High Management" user group (Vice-presidents and up) can even open the folder -- but anybody in that group can open the files without justification.

    You could, theoretically, have "need-to-know" files -- encrypted with individual, file-level passwords, so only people who have been specifically given the password can open it -- which are not "classified" -- that is, they would sit in the general file pool, where anyone can find it -- but it's, generally speaking, bad practice for a number of reasons. So hardly any organization that takes secrecy seriously does it.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Sir Lee.
    7 years 6 months ago #31 by MM2ss
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    • Well explained there Sir Lee, I'll again blame the Navy and my undiagnosed OCD for my response being so technical.

    I will also offer a real world example on the unclassified but can't be accessed by just anyone side of things.

    "NOFORN" documents. Technically, any American national can read a document that is "NOFORN". Only foreign nationals are barred from access. Case in point, Navy training on steam engines. You can find all the details on how a steam engine works online. That information is clearly not classified and controlled. However, not just anyone can pull up the Navy training documents on steam engines. That requires a check that you are a US national. Then, even though it is general information, unless you have a "need to know" the Navy still does not give you access to their general steam engine training information. The fun part here, let's say you found a technical manual that was used for that training, you could read it and then send it in (the cover tells you how to package it and where to mail it to) and face no charges. But if it were say secret or top secret information, you could, in theory face some charges or repercussions.

    To go up to the next level (secret), it goes from general information on steam engines to information on specific engines and operational parameters. We don't even give that information to everyone in the Navy. Just because you are on a ship with that particular plant does not give you the needed clearance or the "need to know".

    Thus, when I conducted training for crew members, I had to do it in two parts. First was the general training for the entire crew. (you have to stay qualified) Second was the more detailed information that was specific to the engineering department. At times, we had to even do a third section of training, because it applied only to a part of the engineering department (say machinists, but not electricians), the EM's and ET's were not cleared to get that specific information, but the MM's were. Which is sort of like the "codeword" restrictions on data.
    7 years 6 months ago #32 by elrodw
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    • Um, we don't really need to argue about this, do we? Especially as I'm NOT going to explain the nuances of the classification system I've dealt with in my life.

    The intent in this fictional depiction is that the data is at the compartmentalized, control-word accessed level as highly classified as it can be, and any resemblance, real or otherwise, to the classification system of any government or governmental organization is purely coincidental.
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    7 years 6 months ago #33 by null0trooper
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    • Aren't you glad then, that no one's gone into the hoop juggling and jumping involved with "Proprietary" documents or the changing attitudes regarding the collection, use, and accounting for "Personally Identifying Information".

    Luckily, ARC appears to not be that closely tied to the U.S. Federal Government.

    Unfortunately for Valerie - maybe - the siloing of data collection and management likely would have contributed to needed information being released to the later revival team out of order and a wee bit late.
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    7 years 6 months ago #34 by Katssun
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    • Not to get mired in the details, but "Need to Know" prevails no matter what the classification something has.
    7 years 6 months ago #35 by Anne
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    • Exactly. If you don't need to know something even if it is 'common knowledge' you have to go out of your way to learn it, and sometimes even learning unclassified knowledge that you don't need to know can be dangerous to both yourself and others.
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    7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #36 by E M Pisek
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    • Ummm.... Not to disagree, but.....

    If you needed to know then they would have let you know. Just because you wanted to know even with a need to know, there's no reason for you to know because you really didn't need to know what you wanted to know just because you said you had to know without even being told you would know. For you to know would mean that you already knew what you wanted to know because you were in the know so now you know.
    What is - was. What was - is.
    Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by E M Pisek.
    7 years 6 months ago #37 by annachie
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    • I really didn't need to know all that.
    7 years 6 months ago #38 by Valentine
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    • Don't Drick and Drive.
    7 years 6 months ago #39 by elrodw
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    • So - now that we all know what we already knew about knowing when we need to know what we know (otherwise, we wouldn't know that we needed to know it, you know!) ....

    Any thoughts, ideas, speculation, etc, on WHY I did what I did to Card Trick? On what her future might hold?
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    7 years 6 months ago #40 by E. E. Nalley
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    • elrodw wrote: On what her future might hold?



    Mr.


    *Evil Laugh Number One*

    Sinister knows what your future holds...!
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
    7 years 6 months ago #41 by null0trooper
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    • elrodw wrote: Any thoughts, ideas, speculation, etc, on WHY I did what I did to Card Trick? On what her future might hold?


    Trying your hand at an age regression story in which the protagonist wasn't very old to start with, and actually is age-regressed?

    Maybe taking time to delve into the angst possible with a young girl (who could remanifest as a boy next time - why not?) learning that they could have been a Wizard, but is now stuck home at Whateley as a lizard? And their adoptive mother also got nerfed in the same battle.

    Or, she could now represent a flaw in Uncle Uncie's imprisonment, through which he can now spy on his enemies and maybe even catch up on his soap operas.

    Aren't you glad you asked?
    Forum-posted ideas are freely adoptable.

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    7 years 6 months ago #42 by Sir Lee
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    • OK, let me think of it. The question even being placed brings to mind a few points, actually.

    The several deaths, Card Trick's mind-wiping, Vanity Girl's injuries and the end of the SFL served a number of purposes, dramatically:
    1. It sets up a number of plot points for Gen2, including why Tractor and VG are at Whateley. (Note that this is the only one that actually required "Will the last one out..." to be published out-of-sequence as it was).
    2. It reminds readers that important victories always have a cost.
    3. It sorta clears the docket for Kayda's development in Gen1 -- now that we KNOW that the big confrontation with Uhncegila is a few years away, we can stop bothering Elrod about it and look at whatever else he has in mind for her.

    Now, why bring Valerie back? Well, I would like to think that's Elrod deciding not to be a complete bastard. That also goes for de-aging her (so she will be able to have a mostly-normal development, instead of being an infant in an adult's body) and even placing her with Tractor and VG.

    The thing about the close brush with Mythos could be ominous foreshadowing™... or it could just be that Elrod felt that it shouldn't be that easy to bring back someone touched by Mythos. But, with Kayda unable to locate and clean whatever remains of Mythos that are inside Val, I'm more inclined on the ominous foreshadowing™ hypothesis.

    Which, if true, would completely reverse my previous assertion about Elrod not wanting to be a bastard. That would be a Magnificent Bastard level thing.
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    7 years 6 months ago #43 by Domoviye
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    • OK, why was bringing Val back important?

    For the next year or so Val is going to age normally, be cute, and wonderful, and work her way into our hearts. And she becomes strong friends with Cody's and Elaine's children, so they all come into focus and we all love them.
    Then she starts having night terrors, nothing helps, and they keep getting worse.
    Then she manifests again, but it's twisted, she loses her face, gains tentacles, warps reality, and becomes abnormally ally tall. She uses Mythos magic to take all the little children away with her as willing slaves. The desperate parents have to hunt down the monstrosity she has become and try to free the children she kidnaps and warps for her ever growing army. The rest of Gen 2 is dragged in as well. It takes years and Val keeps gaining more power.
    Finally they have a climatic battle, and many die, Val almost kills everyone but a small sliver of her humanity remains and reveals a small weak point. They are forced to kill her and defeat gen 2's big bad.

    I think that is sufficiently cruel and heartless while entertaining.
    7 years 6 months ago #44 by Anne
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    • Domo you have a wonderfully :twisted: imagination. Keep it up!
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    7 years 6 months ago #45 by Katssun
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    • elrodw wrote: Any thoughts, ideas, speculation, etc, on WHY I did what I did to Card Trick? On what her future might hold?

    1. Being touched by Mythos magic, she's going to be the only one capable of touching The Black Ick (for lack of a better name) in the tunnels, channel Lord Paramount, who will inform the rest of the Academy and rescue everyone trapped there by the end of Gen 2!

    2. Because Laura needs another Junior Adventurer to get in trouble with? Can't have an adventure with a teen and only TWO precocious children!

    3. Because Wiz's are totally lame and you wanted to write a Warper? Tubular!
    7 years 6 months ago #46 by Kaitha39
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    • Sir Lee wrote: Now, why bring Valerie back? Well, I would like to think that's Elrod deciding not to be a complete bastard.

    /looks sidewards at Kayda 1 to Kayda 7.
    /Looks back at Sir Lee.
    "Ummmmm...... Yeeeeeah....."


    Come on guys, the real reason is so obviously because Elrod wants Val to join with Team Awesome hijinks and beat the bullying shit out of Centurion and Dump Truck!

    ...
    Okay, so maybe /I/ want Elrod to want that, but still....
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    7 years 6 months ago #47 by NeoMagus
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    • Kaitha39 wrote: Come on guys, the real reason is so obviously because Elrod wants Val to join with Team Awesome hijinks and beat the bullying shit out of Centurion and Dump Truck!

    ...
    Okay, so maybe /I/ want Elrod to want that, but still....


    Interesting proposition, and it could possibly be correct...IF Team Awesome was a presence in G2. Unfortunately, they're in the G1 timeline, and none of them are likely to be particularly interested in hanging out with Val as a little kid when they've all already graduated.
    ... . . -.- / .--- ..- ... - .. -.-. . .-.-.- / .-.. --- ...- . / -- . .-. -.-. -.-- .-.-.- / .-- .- .-.. -.- / .... ..- -- -... .-.. -.-- / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-. / --. --- -.. .-.-.-
    7 years 6 months ago #48 by slapshots
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    • NeoMagus wrote:

    Kaitha39 wrote: Come on guys, the real reason is so obviously because Elrod wants Val to join with Team Awesome hijinks and beat the bullying shit out of Centurion and Dump Truck!

    ...
    Okay, so maybe /I/ want Elrod to want that, but still....


    Interesting proposition, and it could possibly be correct...IF Team Awesome was a presence in G2. Unfortunately, they're in the G1 timeline, and none of them are likely to be particularly interested in hanging out with Val as a little kid when they've all already graduated.


    she will be part of Team Awesome 2

    personally I think she will end up an avatar the second time around with a mythos spirit
    7 years 6 months ago #49 by Rose Bunny
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    • Val will grow up and become the avatar host of Spirit-Chan?
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #50 by Phoenix Spiritus
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    • Spirit-chan is happy!

    Leave Spirit-chan alone :cry:
    Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Phoenix Spiritus.
    7 years 6 months ago #51 by Anne
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    • I'm sure, given the interest that some parties have evidenced, that sooner or later we're going to see (in something besides a micro-scene) spirit-chan back in the mix.
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    7 years 6 months ago #52 by E. E. Nalley
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    • Anne wrote: I'm sure, given the interest that some parties have evidenced, that sooner or later we're going to see (in something besides a micro-scene) spirit-chan back in the mix.


    Spirit Chan knows she can defeat him, he has foreseen it! Join me! And with our combined strength we can END Spirit Chan and bring ORDER to the Academy! Elrod never told you what happened to your plot line...
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
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    7 years 6 months ago #53 by Rose Bunny
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    • I feel that Spirit -Chan is a feminine spirit, and SHE can kick butt on mythos with the power of serenity and positive attitude.

    I envision Spirit-Chan as a small fairy or pixie in my head.
    High-Priestess of the Order of Spirit-Chan
    7 years 6 months ago #54 by Angeldude
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    • Can we have her manifest mythos traits while still young requiring the hire of a babysitter who's well versed in Class X entities to the point of gaining a demon mark of her own granting immunity to many other mythos influences? It wouldn't even be the first Class X entity she's babysat.

    Yes, I just want to see more Best Girl.
    Insanity: for when normal just isn't interesting enough.
    All ideas free to use. You can probably make better use of them than me.
    7 years 6 months ago #55 by Kettlekorn
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    • Nothing paranormal happens. She just grows up to be a thoroughly unpleasant asshole this time around. Not the lovable sort of asshole like Wolverine. I'm talking about the sort of person who leaves her cart hanging out of the cart corral, if they even bother. She litters too, and rarely uses her blinkers (except for when when she leaves them on indefinitely, of course).
    I am the kernel that pops in the night. I am the pain that keeps your dentist employed.
    7 years 6 months ago - 7 years 6 months ago #56 by Katssun
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    • Kettlekorn wrote: Nothing paranormal happens. She just grows up to be a thoroughly unpleasant asshole this time around. Not the lovable sort of asshole like Wolverine. I'm talking about the sort of person who leaves her cart hanging out of the cart corral, if they even bother. She litters too, and rarely uses her blinkers (except for when when she leaves them on indefinitely, of course).

    You forgot chews with her mouth open, wears too much perfume, frequently insults wait staff when they're still in earshot, and fights other people during Black Friday sales events.
    Last Edit: 7 years 6 months ago by Katssun.
    7 years 6 months ago #57 by Sir Lee
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    • Talks loudly in the movies, have inappropriate cellphone conversations in public, takes four parking spots with a single VW Golf...
    Don't call me "Shirley." You will surely make me surly.
    7 years 6 months ago #58 by elrodw
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    • Y'all will have to wait to see how I handle her. Would you believe I already have plans? Devious, sneaky, cruel things?
    Never give up, Never surrender! Captain Peter Quincy Taggert
    7 years 6 months ago #59 by Arcanist Lupus
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    • elrodw wrote: Y'all will have to wait to see how I handle her. Would you believe I already have plans? Devious, sneaky, cruel things?

    You? Never.
    "Shared pain is lessened; shared joy, increased — thus do we refute entropy." - Spider Robinson
    7 years 6 months ago #60 by MM2ss
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    • elrodw wrote: Y'all will have to wait to see how I handle her. Would you believe I already have plans? Devious, sneaky, cruel things?


    Hmm, or that could be an elaborate ruse designed to further promote speculation...
    7 years 6 months ago #61 by Kaitha39
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    • elrodw wrote: Y'all will have to wait to see how I handle her. Would you believe I already have plans? Devious, sneaky, cruel things?

    Of course we already believe that.
    To imply otherwise would imply it's not typical of how you fiction writers work. ^_^ :P

    Conflict is essential to a story, after all.
    Any stories or Characters I put out are available to write around. Feel free to borrow them!
    7 years 6 months ago #62 by Katssun
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    • elrodw wrote: Y'all will have to wait to see how I handle her. Would you believe I already have plans? Devious, sneaky, cruel things?

    It's Laura and Bailey's Adventures in Babysitting...isn't it?
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